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All things D&D (favourite setting in D&D, best D&D edition, and more)

This discussion was created from comments split from: All you wanted to know about the next Beamdog's project.
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  • HadarHadar Member Posts: 171
    As a person who never played paper RPG's, but who loves cRPG's (especially Baldur's Gate series, Planescape: Torment, Icewind Dale series, Gothic series (most unappreciated games in English speaking world ever), The Witcher series etc) if I had to choose setting of new and original Beamdom game I would go somewhere in between Icewind Dale and Western Heartlands but not at the coast. Why? Because it would be something new, people who doesn't know Dungeons and Dragons, but loved BG, IWD and NWN would have massive references in games and it would be throwing player in placed that he never could suspect that it has something in common with Fearun.

    So my type would be: Luruar a.k.a Silver Marches. It's something new, but somewhat familiar, Beamdog could place in the game massive references for the old BG, IWD and NWN fans, ale future expansions could explore places like Anauroch, High Forest, Savage Frontier, Spine of the World, Kingdom of Many-Arrows or even whole Frozenfar ( <3 ). :D
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    edited August 2017
    Hadar said:

    if I had to choose setting of new and original Beamdom game I would go somewhere in between Icewind Dale and Western Heartlands but not at the coast. Why? Because it would be something new,

    I mean, I hate to say it, but that wouldn't be very new at all. It would feel very similar in theme to IWD and BG...

    I'm really hoping that the new game, at this point, isn't a D&D-based game. Because Wizards of the Coast likely would want a game set in Forgotten Realms (and not any parts that are unique or interesting, like Thay or High Imaskar or Dambrath). The Forgotten Realms is a setting that is so overdone and so boring at this point.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    Hasbro are setting their next 5e adventure in Chult (and have already done Ravenloft and the Underdark) so I think you overestimate their obsession with the Sword Coast.

    Besides, all that is really required to make a location feel fresh is distinctive art direction and music. For example you could look to real world hansiatic cities like Amsterdam to give Waterdeap a distinctive look.
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    edited August 2017
    Fardragon said:

    Hasbro are setting their next 5e adventure in Chult (and have already done Ravenloft and the Underdark) so I think you overestimate their obsession with the Sword Coast.

    1) It's Wizards of the Coast, not Hasbro. Hasbro just owns WotC (along with a billion other companies).
    2) Chult has already been done (as an expansion to NWN2, for your cRPG fans). In fact, that adventure has already been done in a prior version of D&D. Where do you think the Tomb of Annihilation adventure came from? It's a direct rework of the old Tomb of Horrors (the old Gygax-desinged adventure); WotC even admitted as much.
    3) I don't want "fresh locations", set in FR, that are rehashes of old work. That's just putting an new coat of paint on an old house. It doesn't make the old house "fresh".

    I have very little confidence in WotC's management of 5th Edition or of D&D in general. The 5th Edition system is a solid system, but the storylines are either copies of old storylines OR absolute trash. (Trying DM'ing or reading the module for "Princes of the Apocalypse" if you don't believe me about their new storylines being garbage. Oh, and THAT adventure is a reskin of "Temple of Elemental Evil".) Beamdog is a solid company, but I really am hoping that Beamdog branches out and does a non-D&D-based game.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    Chult in SoZ is done in about as much depth as a kiddies paddling pool - with a leak. There is plenty of room to do more with it. As for revisiting old modules, Hasbro (wotc is wholly owned-it exists only as a brand name) clearly think nostalgia is a big selling point, and I suspect the sales figures support that.
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    Fardragon said:

    Chult in SoZ is done in about as much depth as a kiddies paddling pool - with a leak. There is plenty of room to do more with it. As for revisiting old modules, Hasbro (wotc is wholly owned-it exists only as a brand name) clearly think nostalgia is a big selling point, and I suspect the sales figures support that.

    The sales figures actually show that WotC is completely unsatisfied with D&D 5th Edition... To the point where there probably won't be a 6th Edition of D&D.
  • HadarHadar Member Posts: 171
    edited August 2017
    @rapsam2003

    It isn't new but have potential to explore something different like Anauroch (I think). My idea is to go from something that is familiar to something that is new, so I think that Silver Marches would be the best.
  • ShapiroKeatsDarkMageShapiroKeatsDarkMage Member Posts: 2,428

    Fardragon said:

    Chult in SoZ is done in about as much depth as a kiddies paddling pool - with a leak. There is plenty of room to do more with it. As for revisiting old modules, Hasbro (wotc is wholly owned-it exists only as a brand name) clearly think nostalgia is a big selling point, and I suspect the sales figures support that.

    The sales figures actually show that WotC is completely unsatisfied with D&D 5th Edition... To the point where there probably won't be a 6th Edition of D&D.
    Its because people were so burned out by 4th edition and pleased with Pathfinder that they didn't want to give WotC another chance.
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870

    2) Chult has already been done (as an expansion to NWN2, for your cRPG fans). In fact, that adventure has already been done in a prior version of D&D. Where do you think the Tomb of Annihilation adventure came from? It's a direct rework of the old Tomb of Horrors (the old Gygax-desinged adventure); WotC even admitted as much.

    Fardragon said:

    Chult in SoZ is done in about as much depth as a kiddies paddling pool - with a leak. There is plenty of room to do more with it. As for revisiting old modules, Hasbro (wotc is wholly owned-it exists only as a brand name) clearly think nostalgia is a big selling point, and I suspect the sales figures support that.

    Storm of Zehir hasn't even touched an inch of Chult. What it díd feature was the country of Samarach. Which, while being part of the Chultan Peninsula, hasn't much to do with the country of Chult. Other than sharing borders, that is.

    Personally I'd rather see Maztica, or even better, Malatra for a full-fledged jungle main campaign setting. It would be rather fun to have an Abeir-Toril CRPG without Faerûnian pantheons for a change. Especially since it allows to break the usual "stranded adventurers on exotic shores" trope.
  • helmo1977helmo1977 Member Posts: 364

    Fardragon said:

    Chult in SoZ is done in about as much depth as a kiddies paddling pool - with a leak. There is plenty of room to do more with it. As for revisiting old modules, Hasbro (wotc is wholly owned-it exists only as a brand name) clearly think nostalgia is a big selling point, and I suspect the sales figures support that.

    The sales figures actually show that WotC is completely unsatisfied with D&D 5th Edition... To the point where there probably won't be a 6th Edition of D&D.
    Which would be great. That way we wouldnt be changing editions every 3 years. And stupid things like having to kill whole countries to explain the changes wouldnt happen. 2nd edition, with all its drawbacks lasted more than a decade.
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    edited August 2017

    It's because people were so burned out by 4th edition and pleased with Pathfinder that they didn't want to give WotC another chance.

    No, it goes beyond that. 4E lore turned off a lot of older fans. And then, when 5E came out, 5E reverting most of 4E's changes/lore turned off a lot of 4E players.
    IT'S also the fact that 5th Edition hardcovers are horrible. Nostalgia doesn't sell as well as people think in D&D. Why? Because you can convert a module from an old edition to a newer edition, which is what a LOT of people do. So, in other words, the folks who like 5th Edition as a system are also (generally) the same folks that hate the published 5E modules. People want new content, not rehashes and reskins.

    Do you think Starfinder (which officially released on the 17th), which a lot of folks are dubbing "Pathfinder in Space" (despite the different rules/design), ALREADY outsold D&D 5th Edition release sales, because people love what D&D 5th Edition is doing? NO! A lot of folks are choosing to try out Starfinder because D&D 5th Edition is letting them down.
    helmo1977 said:

    Which would be great. That way we wouldnt be changing editions every 3 years. And stupid things like having to kill whole countries to explain the changes wouldnt happen. 2nd edition, with all its drawbacks lasted more than a decade.

    1) We had D&D 3.X for about 8 years. 5th Edition was released in 2014 and there's no indications they're looking to swap editions.
    2) IF WotC doesn't actually create a 6th Edition, then they will, sooner or later (probably sooner rather than later) decide to stop supporting 5th Edition.

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    Well, I can say this about Starfinder: it's very disappointing. The rules are riddled with errors and inconsistencies, and break down completly at high level. And it's stupidly gear dependent, and misses many opportunities to simplify overcomplecated rules.

    As for the popularity of 5e, I can say it is currently taking off big time in Surrey, UK, and the hardback adventures are very popular (most of my group are too young to have exprienced the originals) I suspect Hasbro's mistake was not pushing the international market in the first place. It's easy to write new content, I churn it out by the bucket-load myself, so it is straigic thinking (right or wrong), not lazyness that has caused them to look to older modules for inspiration.

    It wouldn't really matter if Hasbro stopped producing 5e - the hobby is self sustaining, and it would eventually be revived, like Call of Cuthulu and Star Wars d6.
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857
    Most of what I could find when I researched actually said 5th ed has been a pretty big success, supposedly out performing 3rd, which would be impressive if true.

    Do you have any hard D&D sales states @rapsam2003 ? I couldn't find any, but I gave up fairly quickly.
  • ShapiroKeatsDarkMageShapiroKeatsDarkMage Member Posts: 2,428

    2) Chult has already been done (as an expansion to NWN2, for your cRPG fans). In fact, that adventure has already been done in a prior version of D&D. Where do you think the Tomb of Annihilation adventure came from? It's a direct rework of the old Tomb of Horrors (the old Gygax-desinged adventure); WotC even admitted as much.

    Fardragon said:

    Chult in SoZ is done in about as much depth as a kiddies paddling pool - with a leak. There is plenty of room to do more with it. As for revisiting old modules, Hasbro (wotc is wholly owned-it exists only as a brand name) clearly think nostalgia is a big selling point, and I suspect the sales figures support that.

    Storm of Zehir hasn't even touched an inch of Chult. What it díd feature was the country of Samarach. Which, while being part of the Chultan Peninsula, hasn't much to do with the country of Chult. Other than sharing borders, that is.

    Personally I'd rather see Maztica, or even better, Malatra for a full-fledged jungle main campaign setting. It would be rather fun to have an Abeir-Toril CRPG without Faerûnian pantheons for a change. Especially since it allows to break the usual "stranded adventurers on exotic shores" trope.
    I would love a CRPG with dinosaurs.
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    edited August 2017
    DreadKhan said:

    Most of what I could find when I researched actually said 5th ed has been a pretty big success, supposedly out performing 3rd, which would be impressive if true.

    Do you have any hard D&D sales states @rapsam2003 ? I couldn't find any, but I gave up fairly quickly.

    Early on, it outperformed 3rd.

    WotC doesn't release the sales numbers... But this post from Giant in the Playground shows that 5th Edition hasn't outsold other editions over time: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19446159&postcount=15

  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,437

    WotC doesn't release the sales numbers... But this post from Giant in the Playground shows that 5th Edition hasn't outsold other editions over time: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19446159&postcount=15

    BECMI for the win!!!

    A Mystara game is what they need. Journey into the Hollow World!
  • helmo1977helmo1977 Member Posts: 364

    DreadKhan said:

    Most of what I could find when I researched actually said 5th ed has been a pretty big success, supposedly out performing 3rd, which would be impressive if true.

    Do you have any hard D&D sales states @rapsam2003 ? I couldn't find any, but I gave up fairly quickly.

    Early on, it outperformed 3rd.

    WotC doesn't release the sales numbers... But this post from Giant in the Playground shows that 5th Edition hasn't outsold other editions over time: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19446159&postcount=15

    I couldnt read the post, but 5th edition has been on rhe shelves for a few years, while second edition has been for decades (because 2nd ed. stuff is still sold). So, it is an unfair comparison, imo.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,315
    edited August 2017
    helmo1977 said:

    DreadKhan said:

    Most of what I could find when I researched actually said 5th ed has been a pretty big success, supposedly out performing 3rd, which would be impressive if true.

    Do you have any hard D&D sales states @rapsam2003 ? I couldn't find any, but I gave up fairly quickly.

    Early on, it outperformed 3rd.

    WotC doesn't release the sales numbers... But this post from Giant in the Playground shows that 5th Edition hasn't outsold other editions over time: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19446159&postcount=15

    I couldnt read the post, but 5th edition has been on rhe shelves for a few years, while second edition has been for decades (because 2nd ed. stuff is still sold). So, it is an unfair comparison, imo.
    Yea especially since later on in the thread the user mentions that the figures for most of the editions (2E being the exception) are for their entire run. I don't know about the date of the source material he was using, but by the time of that thread even 3.5 edition had been out for 12 years.
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    edited August 2017
    elminster said:

    helmo1977 said:

    DreadKhan said:

    Most of what I could find when I researched actually said 5th ed has been a pretty big success, supposedly out performing 3rd, which would be impressive if true.

    Do you have any hard D&D sales states @rapsam2003 ? I couldn't find any, but I gave up fairly quickly.

    Early on, it outperformed 3rd.

    WotC doesn't release the sales numbers... But this post from Giant in the Playground shows that 5th Edition hasn't outsold other editions over time: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19446159&postcount=15

    I couldnt read the post, but 5th edition has been on rhe shelves for a few years, while second edition has been for decades (because 2nd ed. stuff is still sold). So, it is an unfair comparison, imo.
    Yea especially since later on in the thread the user mentions that the figures for most of the editions (2E being the exception) are for their entire run. I don't know about the date of the source material he was using, but by the time of that thread even 3.5 edition had been out for 12 years.
    I was originally asked if I had any sales figures...

    Arguably, AD&D2 was the best sold edition. Then, TSR went out of business in 1997, as tabletop RPGs at the time were eclipsed briefly by CCGs.

    Point is, while this is not a valid comparison, this does give us some insight. What's happening now is, there's a surge in tabletop gaming, but a lot of that is for smaller developers (indies and such). And WotC is not happy with D&D 5th Edition sales, from what I can tell. They've had two editions that didn't reach the popularity of their predecessors (especially if we consider that AD&D2 sold 270,000 units supposedly in the first year alone).




  • MornmagorMornmagor Member Posts: 1,160
    If WotC are not happy with 5th edition sales, maybe next time they put an edition out, they can try a non-beta version.

    There i said it >.>
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857
    While I'll probably cling to 3.x forever, 5th ed seemed reasonable to me. Its not as versatile as 3.x, but for many groups that was just unwanted filler. Options = decisions = time spent, and the internet enabled everyone to be munchkins/power-gamers, so 3rd had rep issues too.

    As for the numbers, just what constitutes a 'unit'? I couldn't find a definition. Regarding successfulness of d&d, its more about how big the profits are. You can have tons of sales and poor profits if you under-charge, but again, data is scarce.
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,459
    I would say 5e is more versatile than 3.X if you compare just the PHBs since 5e has a much better multiclass system but 3.X does have TONS of splatbooks to make up for its "meh" PHB material. Fortunately it seems all their Unearthed Arcana articles will be put into the new Xanathar's Guide to Everything Book.
  • ShapiroKeatsDarkMageShapiroKeatsDarkMage Member Posts: 2,428
    edited August 2017
    I Hope there Will bè Flumphs npcs in the new game, with a role similar to the Mr. Saturns from Earthbound. Just imagine, travelling in the scary underdark and stumbling upon a cloister of these quirky but friendly creatures.
    Post edited by ShapiroKeatsDarkMage on
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    I think the reason 5e is suddenly becoming popular amongst middle class twenty-somethings in Surrey is it is simple and intuitive. These people have neither the time nor the inclination to spend time poring over complex rules, they are very much casual gamers who just want to come home from work and bash a few monsters, without worrying about the rules.
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    edited August 2017
    Fardragon said:

    These people have neither the time nor the inclination to spend time poring over complex rules

    Personally, I think most of the rules aren't complex in most systems created post-2000. I also think that, a lot of times, people who want simplistic systems pick up systems like 5E and then ignore half the rules. Which is sad. I've seen it a lot of times, really.

    "I cast Cure Wounds, then I can Fireball as my bonus action". (Do note that Fireball requires an action, and you only get 1 action per round. In this example, "Cure Wounds" was the action.)

    But everyone handwaves it, because "we're having fun". :/
    Post edited by rapsam2003 on
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235

    I Hope there Will bè Flumphs npcs in the new game, with a role similar to the Mr. Saturns from Earthbound. Just imagine, travelling in the scary underdark and stumbling upon a cloister of these quirky but friendly creatures.

    @Vallmyr

    Even better if Flumph is a playable race.
  • ShapiroKeatsDarkMageShapiroKeatsDarkMage Member Posts: 2,428
    ThacoBell said:

    I Hope there Will bè Flumphs npcs in the new game, with a role similar to the Mr. Saturns from Earthbound. Just imagine, travelling in the scary underdark and stumbling upon a cloister of these quirky but friendly creatures.

    @Vallmyr

    Even better if Flumph is a playable race.
    Maybe One Flumph as a party member.
  • ShapiroKeatsDarkMageShapiroKeatsDarkMage Member Posts: 2,428
    Chnapy said:

    maybe it could take place in a new universe inhabited by flumphs only.

    Big reveal is that the whole universe is actually a giant flumph itself.

    Mind blown.
  • ShapiroKeatsDarkMageShapiroKeatsDarkMage Member Posts: 2,428

    I Hope there Will bè Flumphs npcs in the new game, with a role similar to the Mr. Saturns from Earthbound. Just imagine, travelling in the scary underdark and stumbling upon a cloister of these quirky but friendly creatures.

    @Vallmyr
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,308
    Fardragon said:

    I think the reason 5e is suddenly becoming popular amongst middle class twenty-somethings in Surrey is it is simple and intuitive. These people have neither the time nor the inclination to spend time poring over complex rules, they are very much casual gamers who just want to come home from work and bash a few monsters, without worrying about the rules.

    Yup, and as I've become older and have less time for gaming I too have become very much this. Except that instead of "bash a few monsters" for me it is "anything but fight monsters," because combat is tedious, frustrating and boring and I don't want to waste my precious little time available for gaming on such combat. That's why I especially avoid turn-based combat games nowadays.
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