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Projectile AoE size in Near Infinity

islandkingislandking Member Posts: 426
edited October 2017 in General Discussion (Spoiler Warning!)
They say if you don’t understand, just ask :)

Two examples:
Death Fog, it’s 256 in NI, and 30 ft radius in in-game description, ratio: 30/256=0.1171875
Shield of Fyrus Khal, it’s 90 in NI, and 10 ft radius in in-game description, ratio:10/90=0.1111111

My question is, what do those 256, 90 numbers stand for and which of the above (or other) ratio value should I use as a standard to calculate other ft radius?

Thanks!
Post edited by islandking on

Comments

  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,367
    1 foot = 16 units projectile size
    Don't trust any radius listed in game, they are are either outright wrong or refer to the diameter, not radius.
  • islandkingislandking Member Posts: 426
    edited October 2017
    @kjeron
    Noted.

    You mean for the most commonly used 256 units, they’re actually 256/16=16 ft (4.8 m) radius, or 32 ft (9.6m) diameter, quite the contrary to in-game description, which always states 30 ft (9m) radius.

    But when I compare a human male height to the Fireball blast radius (256 units), it’s like 4 to 5 heights, if I assume the height is less than 2 meters, the blast radius would be 8 to 10 meter not 5m. Or, am I missing something?

    Additional question :) : Is there any way to tell the spell projectile travel speed, explosion spread speed, and type of explosion effected creatures (hostile/friendly/party member) in NI?
    Post edited by islandking on
  • FlashburnFlashburn Member Posts: 1,847
    edited October 2017
    I find it more accurate to say that 1 unit of in-game distance is 8.53 (line over the 3 because it infinitely repeats).

    8.53 (3 repeating) * 30 ft. = an explosion size of 256 that you see in NearInfinity. Used in many instances, like the classic Fireball.

    That's the measurement I use and it's steered me fairly well. True Sight's description says it has a 235 ft. radius and has an explosion size of 2000. It actually comes out to 234.375 ft. radius but I can understand rounding up to 235 for simplicity's sake because its a nice, whole number ending in 5. Although I agree with @kjeron that not everything listed in-game is accurate. I just checked Detect Invisibility since it says 70 ft. radius, but its actually the same size as True Sight.

    As for your last question, you can usually determine if a spell is party-friendly or not by checking the .PRO file's area effect info flags, such as "Not affecting allies" and "Not affecting enemies."

    EDIT: Too late, I discover, in the "Fireballs are too big" thread, that pretty much anywhere that a spell describes its "radius," it actually means "diameter." 8.53 (3 repeating) still seems to be the magic number to translate AoE size to feet, though.
    Post edited by Flashburn on
  • islandkingislandking Member Posts: 426
    Hi there @Flashburn :)
    Might I ask you how do you calculate the unit/feet ratio number?
    When I was testing, I always cast fireballs horizontally (east west). Then I subtract the x-coordinate of the explosion center from the x-coordinate of caster’s nearest green circle rim to the explosion center. The method will have errors, but it seems when the subtraction is less than 256, the cast will get hit by the fireball. So I can only be sure that the 256 numbers in NI is the same as x-coordinates, horizontally. But what I don’t know is how the number is related to feet, or how high the male human in feet & the overhead view angle of BG then we can roughly calculate from the y-coordinate using angle formulas?

    Checked some .PRO, Haste seems to have both “(Party Only)” and “Not affecting allies(6)”, given how the spell works, I can only assume by “Not affecting allies(6)” it actually means “Not affecting blue circled NPCs”? Thus combined with “(Party Only)” it gives… party only effects?
  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,438
    The IESDP is your best source for stuff like this, specifically the page on the projectile format.

    As @kjeron noted already, most AoE descriptions in the game are wrong and are in the roadmap for the next patch cycle to be fixed.

    I believe allies, in this case, refers more to summons--blue circles are generally considered neutrals in the enemy-ally chain.
  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,367
    edited October 2017
    islandking said:


    But when I compare a human male height to the Fireball blast radius (256 units), it’s like 4 to 5 heights, if I assume the height is less than 2 meters, the blast radius would be 8 to 10 meter not 5m. Or, am I missing something?

    I always measured horizontally, because the vertical is adjusted for angle.
    A fireball's radius is only 256 units horizontally, vertically it's 192, vertical range is 3/4 horizontal range.
    This image may help display it better, each "ring" of the projectile is a 32 unit radius increment and 32 units horizontally, but its clearly not a circle.

    If you look at an animation frame where they are at their fullest (no bent knees or "ready" stance), Humans are roughly 60 pixels tall, Elves 50 pixels, and Dwarves/Halflings 40 pixels. A 1:1 ratio of inches to vertical units closely matches the base height ranges of PnP. (Half-orc, Half-elf, and Gnome don't have their own animations, just inventory paperdolls).

    16 units per foot also matches up with casting and visual range:
    Casting range incrases/decreases by 16H/12V units per unit of spell range
    Visual Radius increases/decreases by 32H/24V units per unit of visual range (by ocpode 262)
  • FlashburnFlashburn Member Posts: 1,847
    islandking said:

    Hi there @Flashburn :)
    Might I ask you how do you calculate the unit/feet ratio number?

    You had the right idea in the OP, its just your order of division was reversed. It should be 256/30 = 8.53 (3 repeating). I forgot about the IESDP resource, which says to divide by approx. 8.5 to determine diameter, so it's reassuring to know the answer I found on my own is more or less correct. Just keep in mind that spell radii diameters aren't always documented accurately; sometimes they're rounded up or down for convenience.

    As far as casting range/visual range is concerned, I've got no idea about that.
  • islandkingislandking Member Posts: 426
    @CamDawg
    Thanks for the pointer to the gibberlings3, glad we have a good reference source of those parameters online, would be great to see the description fixed in the following patches.

    I double checked .PRO of the Haste spell and revised my understanding, correct me if I’m wrong: Haste’s projectile is named “Instnat Area (Party Only) (INAREAPA.PRO) – 158”, where “(Party Only)” is just a name so I assume those two words have no actual factor on the real effects, what really matters should be the projectile’s “Area effect info” row, and if my presumed – all AoE affect all types of creatures by default – is correct, it’s the “Not affecting allies(6)” and “Not affecting enemies(7)” that exclude the “blue-circle” and “red-circle” correspondingly, thus makes the name “(Party Only)” work as it’s intended, affecting only green-circled creatures, including both companions & summons, like how Haste behaves in game.
  • islandkingislandking Member Posts: 426
    @kjeron
    Thanks for the great pic !
    Forgive me for being dumb but I don’t quite understand the pixel / inches part, I’ll poke at it later :)
  • islandkingislandking Member Posts: 426
    @Flashburn
    Yes, it’s reassuring to see the magical number on gibberlings3, maybe 8.5 is just a rounded down of 8.53 for convenience.
  • islandkingislandking Member Posts: 426
    Or, “Not affecting allies(6)” could mean not affecting both blue AND green circles, while all projectiles under “(Party Only)” name naturally has a hidden party only effect, overwriting any flags within it. This would explain the following behavior (presuming all AoE affect green, blue and red circles by default):
    • Haste – “(Party Only)” having “Not affecting allies(6)” and “Not affecting enemies(7)” within it, affects only green-circles in-game.
    • Hold Person – Plain name having “Not affecting allies(6)” within it, affects only red-circles in-game.
    • Slow – “(Not Party)” having “Not affecting allies(6)” within it, affects only red-circles in-game.
    It seems to explain all spells I’ve checked so far, hope it helps people looking for an answer.
  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,367
    It's actually by EA group (GOODCUTOFF, NEUTRAL, EVILCUTOFF).
    Circle color can be misleading, as there are EVILBUTGREEN/EVILBUTBLUE and GOODBUTRED/GOODBUTBLUE, which are a part of EVILCUTOFF and GOODCUTOFF respectively.
    There is also the "Colored Selection Circles" option, which replaces the color for all controlled creatures with their major color, which are always GOODCUTOFF.
    And there are the Panicked, which are yellow-circled, but retain their EA status.

    GOODCUTOFF casting "not affecting allies" hits EVILCUTOFF creatures.
    NEUTRAL casting "not affecting allies" hits GOODCUTOFF and EVILCUTOFF creatures.
    EVILCUTOFF casting "not affecting allies" hits GOODCUTOFF creatures.

    "Not affecting allies" won't hit NEUTRAL creatures.

    "Not affecting enemies" = broken (everyone).
    "Not affecting both" = creatures of same EA group.
  • islandkingislandking Member Posts: 426
    edited November 2017
    @kjeron
    What're "GOOD""NEUTRAL""EVIL" standing for, they cannot be referring to alignment right? And by "all controlled creatures with their major color, which are always GOODCUTOFF" I assume at least GOOD means the controllable creatures, and GOODBUTRED/GOODBUTBLUE mean Companion charmed by enemies/Companions not in party etc. respectively?

    P.S: There's no big difference between IESDP's 8.5 (which is 8.5x2=17) and your 16, actually after seeing your comment in Fireball blast thread, I'm a little trending to use 16... Could you tell me where to find details of the visual range opcode in NI? Also what's the measurement of .PRO's Speed (some just have 40 or 20 in it), for I see no explanation in IESDP.

    Many thanks!
  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,367
    islandking said:

    @kjeron
    What're "GOOD""NEUTRAL""EVIL" standing for, they cannot be referring to alignment right?

    EA = EnemyAlly / Allegiance, relative to the protagonist
    0 ANYONE
1 INANIMATE
2 PC // Party members
3 FAMILIAR
4 ALLY
5 CONTROLLED  // Mostly summons
6 CHARMED
28 GOODBUTRED
29 GOODBUTBLUE
30 GOODCUTOFF
--------------
31 NOTGOOD
126 ANYTHING
128 NEUTRAL
199 NOTEVIL
---------------
200 EVILCUTOFF
201 EVILBUTGREEN
202 EVILBUTBLUE
254 CHARMED_PC
255 ENEMY
    It's how scripts determine things like "NearestEnemyOf(Myself)".
    islandking said:

    And by "all controlled creatures with their major color, which are always GOODCUTOFF" I assume at least GOOD means the controllable creatures?

    Any creature you can directly command(controllable) is a part of the GOODCUTOFF group, but with that option turned on, they do not use Green Selection circles, instead their selection circle is their major clothing color.
    islandking said:


    P.S: There's no big difference between IESDP's 8.5 (which is 8.5x2=17) and your 16, actually after seeing your comment in Fireball blast thread, I'm a little trending to use 16... Could you tell me where to find details of the visual range opcode in NI? Also what's the measurement of .PRO's Speed (some just have 40 or 20 in it), for I see no explanation in IESDP.

    Visual Range Modifier is opcode 262, it can increment/decrement, set value, and set percentage, what other kind of details do you mean?

    Speed is pixels per tick (1/15th second), horizontally. Like distance, its vertical value is also 3/4 of its horizontal value.
  • islandkingislandking Member Posts: 426
    @kjeron
    PM-ed :)
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