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Are the schools of magic hard-coded?

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  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,130
    There is no formal list, at least no externalized list. "MSCHOOL.2DA" is the closest thing, but it just keeps track of which feedback message should be displayed by the spell-school removal opcodes.

    Schools 1-10 have a hardcoded relation to specialist mages in various ways.
    Higher values can be added, AFAIK have no hardcoded features, and they do function with the opcodes that target spell schools.

  • chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163
    So there is no obstacle to introducing spells from, say, the school of Force? Those extra schools were overlaid over the big eight in the supplements for AD&D, I know, but here it's one or the other, unless we make it a secondary type, but that wouldn't affect the ability to learn them. Is it possible to recreate the specialist permissions/restrictions for these extra schools? At least with regard to the most important thing, who can learn what. Let's say I make a wizard kit called Forcemaster, give it an extra spell/level with effects and simulate inability to learn, oh, Divination by forbidding him all Divination spells and scrolls (with a Weidu patch of them). But only this kit would be able to learn Force spells. Possible?

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,460
    edited October 2017
    Don't think so. Check offset... 0x25? Maybe? Of the .spl file format. Spells must be assigned some school, and I don't think it's possible to extend that list.

    Of course one could perhaps cannibalize the existing schools... change the strings to reflect new and/or different schools, change the association and exclusion fields for all spells and scrolls, and edit K_M_H.2da et al. to remove the specialist kits with hard-coded associations from the menus. Then repopulate the kit menus with your own kits, with their own characteristics, and their own relationships to your newly-arranged spell schools. It would be a lot of work to prevent little bugs here and there (especially having to do with spell selection during character generation), but it might work.

  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,130
    chimeric said:

    Is it possible to recreate the specialist permissions/restrictions for these extra schools?

    Patching scrolls will have no effect on learning, only casting.
    Restrcting divination spells can only be done in two ways - giving them the specialist unusbility flag that is opposed to divination spells (Conjurer), which does have some specialist-related side effects, or cannibalizing another classes kit unusability flag for the same purpose, which makes it less compatible with other mods.

    You could restrict the force spells from all other mage kits, but you cannot restrict them from the unkitted generalist mage, without also restricting it from all new mage kits(including your Forcemaster).

    The extra spell per level is hardcoded to any Single class Mage/Sorcerer kit, so you would not need to add it in. Dual/Multiclasses don't always get it, depending on combination.

  • chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163
    Hola! This seems to be a rare case when you are wrong. I just extended the MSCHOOL.2DA file with FORCEMASTER and made a spell in that school and a scroll to cast the spell. For the test, the scroll was made unusable to Illusionist, my current character's class. And he was indeed unable to either cast the spell or learn it - unlike Edwin.

    tbone1
  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,130
    chimeric said:

    Hola! This seems to be a rare case when you are wrong. I just extended the MSCHOOL.2DA file with FORCEMASTER and made a spell in that school and a scroll to cast the spell. For the test, the scroll was made unusable to Illusionist, my current character's class. And he was indeed unable to either cast the spell or learn it - unlike Edwin.

    Was the spell flagged unusable by Illusionists, or just the scroll?
    Does it actually prevent learning, or just have the unusable red overlay?

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,460
    edited October 2017
    Yeah - if you create an illusionist, can you learn the Force spell during character generation?

    Actually very curious to find out the extent of the possibilities here...

  • chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163
    @kjeron , Both, but he still learned it... or tried, with his moderate Int... even though he was unable to cast it from the scroll, until I flagged the scroll. Then the "Write spell" button disappeared.

    @subtledoctor , Don't know. It doesn't have a symbolic name. The spell would have to be added to the appropriate files for character generation and so on. Take it and experiment.

  • Avenger_teambgAvenger_teambg Member, Developer Posts: 5,862
    The usability flags are hardcoded, but you can have new schools. The 'write spell' button may work differently between versions. Also it may work differently if you have the "All Learn Spell Info" enabled. In this case, the button is enabled, but you will receive various feedback about why you cannot learn the spell.

    RedrakeGrammarsalad
  • chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163
    What versions? And what proof do you have that it works differently? ...Anyway, who cares. I can make new schools, I can make new spells...

  • Wow, you really don't have people skills, do you? You ask, he answers, you declare you don't care

  • chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163
    He doesn't know what he's talking about. He doesn't bring any arguments, just old-woman style "could be something bad" doom-saying...

  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,130
    Opcode 346 (Save vs School Modifier) can only affect schools #0-11.

  • chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163
    Now that's something. A bit of a drawback, sure.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,460
    chimeric said:

    what proof do you have that ...

    I dunno, he's only a frackin' developer who helped code the very thing he's talking about.

    On the one hand, @rrchristensen it's not worth criticizing chimeric, it will only lead to him being even more vituperative.

    On the other hand @Avenger_teambg and @kjeron I don't know why you're helping him. When you give this guy helpful information he just pays you back with insults.

    tbone1Mantis37
  • chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163
    Hey, what are YOU doing in my thread? I gotta go get my broom...

    There are not many knowing car mechanics, the kind who know what's worth mentioning and what isn't. Only the best fall into that category, and likewise their intelligence tells them when to help.

  • Avenger_teambgAvenger_teambg Member, Developer Posts: 5,862
    chimeric said:

    He doesn't know what he's talking about. He doesn't bring any arguments, just old-woman style "could be something bad" doom-saying...

    It is funny you say that, so i humor you. Just to clear my previous note up a bit. It isn't "something bad". The "All Learn Spell Info" option is for people who want to know why exactly they cannot learn a spell. I didn't say it anywhere that it is bad.

    Anyway, I consider Kjeron a very knowledgeable person. About myself: you can find me in the credits list of all the EE games.

    ArunsunContemplative_HamsterGrammarsalad
  • chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163
    And on the list of the most modest, no doubt... Why bring up a point, like this "All Learn" feature, if it's not going to make a difference? If it won't disrupt player experience, what's the purpose of mentioning it? Maybe there is ten more lists or habitual features where a new school will not appear, because it was not written into them, by bringing up them up you are just shooting down a new idea with bucket shot quibbles. That's why I said yours was not a valuable contribution to this topic. It's not enough to know what to say, you need to know when to say.

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