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Dark Dreams of Furiae - a new module for NWN:EE! Buy now
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Premium modules - why extra?

modestvoltamodestvolta Member Posts: 80
edited November 2017 in General Discussions NWN:EE
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the premium modules (at least not all of them) will not be included in the base game. Has any reason been given for that decision?

With the talk of old modules maintaining capability, it seems little work was needed to get these modules working in the game, so charging extra seems like the entirely wrong decision. I also saw where if you owned the old modules, you could play them in the new game without repurchasing, which again makes it seem like they didn't require much effort to get working.

Even without touching the graphics (yes, I know there are a lot of models/textures and compatibility would have to be maintained, but if a thing's worth doing...), this would have been a day one purchase for me, but this pushes me in the other direction.

As a lurker who mainly white knights for Beamdog offline, the up-charge on already created content rubs me the wrong way. I'm curious what the rest of the community's thoughts are or if I'm entirely off-base.

Illustair

Comments

  • devSindevSin Member Posts: 32
    All the BioWare modules are free, so it may just be a licensing thing (the ones they're charging for are the ones that were done by a third party).

    tbone1CvijetaIllustair
  • StaranStaran Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 280
    Because Beamdog wants money to fund the development of new modules to sell to us.
    Capitalism

    Sylvius_the_Mad
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,187
    We include everything that was in the Diamond Edition, and then the premium modules that were previously available to purchase from BioWare are offered as a part of Digital Deluxe (Beamdog) and DLC (Steam).

    The BioWare modules were/are available on fan sites for free, but the position here is that they exist (on fan sites) in sort of a legal gray area.

    Andarian
  • TrinitalTrinital Member Posts: 59
    edited November 2017

    We include everything that was in the Diamond Edition, and then the premium modules that were previously available to purchase from BioWare are offered as a part of Digital Deluxe (Beamdog) and DLC (Steam).

    The BioWare modules were/are available on fan sites for free, but the position here is that they exist (on fan sites) in sort of a legal gray area.

    I think people are more upset that it's being sold as a feature when they already own them. Speaking mostly about the 19.99 tier.

    To someone who already owned the diamond edition and those premium modules, they may question why they are re-buying them.. *shrugs*

    Could be miscommunication.

  • Peteed1985Peteed1985 Member Posts: 63
    edited November 2017
    Trinital said:

    We include everything that was in the Diamond Edition, and then the premium modules that were previously available to purchase from BioWare are offered as a part of Digital Deluxe (Beamdog) and DLC (Steam).

    The BioWare modules were/are available on fan sites for free, but the position here is that they exist (on fan sites) in sort of a legal gray area.

    I think people are more upset that it's being sold as a feature when they already own them. Speaking mostly about the 19.99 tier.

    To someone who already owned the diamond edition and those premium modules, they may question why they are re-buying them.. *shrugs*

    Could be miscommunication.
    Thing is they don't have to buy it if they don't want to :) the $20 is for one that works better with a modern systems and isn't being done by the original company so either beamdog fixes it and supports it and gives it away for free and therefore there's no reason for them to do it or they charge for it.

    The whole world is based around buying things you've already bought before or paying to have stuff repaired.

    An example is you bought a car but they got old and repairs will cost you $1000 but the car cost $40k would you really QQ that the mechanic down the street from you (that has nothing to do with the company that made the car) that repaired it should just give you $1000 of their money by fixing the car free because you already bought the car 15 years ago? That's basically whats being said to beamdog here.

    Each of the OC, SoU, HotU is about $60 each new right? Before they came in combo packs and price dropped after years xD so they are fixing up maybe $180-$250 worth of game and premium modules and selling it for $20-$40

    I do however agree the $20 is a bit much extra for premium modules (base games too cheap) I feel the base NWN EE should be $30 or $40 and the deluxe $10 more

  • MadHatterMadHatter Member Posts: 145
    It’s pretty well known that digital deluxe editions of Games are typically a terrible deal and you should only buy them if you really, really want to support a game.

    Maybe Beamdog can get a TF2 hat crossover. :p

  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,051
    The OC sold for $50. I forget how much the expansions were but I imagine they were about $30 each. $60 games were still in the future when Neverwinter came out.

    @Peteed1985 I don't disagree with your overall point, though, although I think the $20 price for NWN:EE is fine.

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,187
    edited November 2017
    Trinital said:


    To someone who already owned the diamond edition and those premium modules, they may question why they are re-buying them.. *shrugs*

    https://www.beamdog.com/nwn_faq#13

    Will I retain ownership of the premium modules I purchased from BioWare?

    If you already have the premium modules (Wyvern Crown of Cormyr, Pirates of the Sword Coast, or Infinite Dungeons), they will function properly in Neverwinter Nights: Enhanced Edition.

    NimranReibornSylvius_the_Mad
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,136
    i knovv these are on the vault i vvonder if bd is gonna force those dovvn at launch

  • ReibornReiborn Member Posts: 156

    Trinital said:


    To someone who already owned the diamond edition and those premium modules, they may question why they are re-buying them.. *shrugs*

    https://www.beamdog.com/nwn_faq#13

    Will I retain ownership of the premium modules I purchased from BioWare?

    If you already have the premium modules (Wyvern Crown of Cormyr, Pirates of the Sword Coast, or Infinite Dungeons), they will function properly in Neverwinter Nights: Enhanced Edition.
    so what you say that in philosophical sense the versions which are available online (and that were available on sticky thread on the old BSN official bioware forums) are in the gray area of legality and hence they are not part of the main package.

    Instead you include them in the digital deluxe edition as extra.
    But if you had those modules in first place they will work on EE version of NWN.

    I think it's bit of shady move - just include everything in the regular package of the EE and add the new unique stuff (portraits, extra soundtrack, other goodies) in the deluxe edition.
    I'm big big NWN1 fan and I wanted to support beamdog on this so I got the deluxe edition anyway but you understand most people will just get the 20$ version and use those copies of the modules available online so there is no real benefit for those to be included only in the digital deluxe EE version of the game.

  • modestvoltamodestvolta Member Posts: 80
    devSin said:

    All the BioWare modules are free, so it may just be a licensing thing (the ones they're charging for are the ones that were done by a third party).

    I can give Beamdog a pass if it's licensing related. That's a valid thought I hadn't considered. As someone else pointed out, it could be a communication issue.
    Staran said:

    Because Beamdog wants money to fund the development of new modules to sell to us.
    Capitalism

    I want to give Beamdog more money. I've done it for every project so far. I just want it to be for work they're doing. I think previously available modules should be included in the base game, and as a consumer I don't think I'm up for buying the game as packaged.

    As an aside, I've bought every enhanced edition. I've only played BG. The other purchases were primarily to support a company doing this work for games I loved growing up. To me, charging extras for the already available premium modules feels like a money grab, which is making me decide to hold onto my cash until/if I have time to play.

    An example is you bought a car but they got old and repairs will cost you $1000 but the car cost $40k would you really QQ that the mechanic down the street from you (that has nothing to do with the company that made the car) that repaired it should just give you $1000 of their money by fixing the car free because you already bought the car 15 years ago? That's basically whats being said to beamdog here.

    That's not a fair analogy at all. The mechanic is performing work to repair the car. The three premium modules I'm referring to aren't being touched by Beamdog in any way, other than to provide a trusted download (which is great!), but is is that much extra work to provide those downloads when they're already hosting the rest of the game? I don't think so, but that's my opinion.

    To be clear, I'm not saying Beamdog's work on the EE should be free. I think they should be compensated, and $20 is a great price for that work. However, they're not doing any work on the premium modules while selling those as an extra. That's where I'm rubbed the wrong way. What I think is a more fair mechanic analogy is if you went and got your car fixed and the mechanic forgot to put your baby seat back (why did they take your baby seat out? I don't know; roll with me though). To get that baby seat back, you just need to pay another $10.

    I don't think the original selling price of NWN is really relevant to the enhanced edition price (for what's it worth I owned all of the original content; was it bought at full list price? I don't know. I'd have to ask Santa...). I can't imagine any of Beamdog's costs are associated with developing the original content, so they don't need to recoup those costs. Beamdog should be paid for the improvements to the engine, but tacking on charges for a product they're admittedly not working on, and which are already available elsewhere? No thanks for now.

    @Googleness sums up my thoughts pretty well.

  • modestvoltamodestvolta Member Posts: 80
    I'm on solo baby duty today so this won't be a proper response (even if just to say "I understand where you're coming from regarding software and costs - I don't agree with Beamdog's monetizing strategy in this case, but I understand"). I think my original question is being misconstrued (or again, baby duty, so I may not be reading as closely as I could!).

    I don't think any of this work should be free. I think it's fair to expect the base price to include all previously available content.

    I'll try to have a more put-together thought later, but I wanted to make sure I took the time to say, point blank, that Beamdog's work should not be free.

    P.S. Even though I think we're more likely to agree to disagree, I do appreciate the developer engagement.

    Illustair
  • Dark_AnsemDark_Ansem Member Posts: 962
    I could not buy them originally, so I'm really happy to pay for them this time.
    What I REALLY wanted, was for them to be editable in the toolset. I hope later updates actually address this.

  • Optimist4914Optimist4914 Member Posts: 3
    New to the forum here - excited to see NWN being picked up and given some development. I've owned any number of copies over the years (most recently from GOG when I couldn't find my original CD/DVD). I've actually bought both editions here again. In the process of downloading the headstart so I can start checking it out. So for me - while there was some cost (in buying both editions) - a small price to pay for development.

    Illustair
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716

    Trinital said:


    To someone who already owned the diamond edition and those premium modules, they may question why they are re-buying them.. *shrugs*

    https://www.beamdog.com/nwn_faq#13

    Will I retain ownership of the premium modules I purchased from BioWare?

    If you already have the premium modules (Wyvern Crown of Cormyr, Pirates of the Sword Coast, or Infinite Dungeons), they will function properly in Neverwinter Nights: Enhanced Edition.
    What about Shadow Guard and Witch's Wake?

  • Peteed1985Peteed1985 Member Posts: 63
    Raduziel said:

    Trinital said:


    To someone who already owned the diamond edition and those premium modules, they may question why they are re-buying them.. *shrugs*

    https://www.beamdog.com/nwn_faq#13

    Will I retain ownership of the premium modules I purchased from BioWare?

    If you already have the premium modules (Wyvern Crown of Cormyr, Pirates of the Sword Coast, or Infinite Dungeons), they will function properly in Neverwinter Nights: Enhanced Edition.
    What about Shadow Guard and Witch's Wake?
    What about them? Those are part of NWN:Diamond along with kingmaker so that answer covers all the ones not included in NWN:EE already.

    RaduzielIllustairJuliusBorisov
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    @Peteed1985 You're right. Stupid question indeed.

    IllustairJuliusBorisov
  • tinbluetinblue Member Posts: 17
    When I purchased the Deluxe Edition I didn't really care that I had already bought Neverwinter Nights multiple times both physical and digital. I didn't really care that I had already purchased the premium modules. I care about supporting a company that is willing to resurrect the core game and expand and improve it's technical abilities.

    ronaldo
  • ReibornReiborn Member Posts: 156
    @Illydth you take this argument way too far,
    No one said you should not sell those modules but for the Deluxe edition only to include them is not that good value for the customers.

    I bought the Deluxe edition because I wanted to support this project and I've decided to pay the extra cash to help bit not because of those modules, but, if they were published on the Bioware owned official forums and they didn't care about it and they are still available online for free - why not to spice up the deluxe edition with other fancy stuff (artwork, audio, maybe behind the scenes videos on how you transformed NWN to EE etc...) and just include all those original modules in the basic pack.

    It's not that I'm preaching against selling those separately but when I (my personal opinion) approached this issue and wanted to choose which edition to get I really couldn't care less about those extra modules and in the end only because I wanted to support Beamdog I paid double for the game (which I've owned like 3-4 times already in previous iterations :) )

    so to sum it all up if we like it or not those modules were freely given away with Bioware's own knowledge, when you offer people to pay double for the deluxe and the extra they get is soundtrack (mp3 version) and those 3 modules it does not justify paying double for the game. just my 0.02$.

    MarleyIllydth
  • IllydthIllydth Member, Developer Posts: 1,641
    @Reiborn

    And in the context of what you're saying (I don't think the extra modules are worth the additional cost of the deluxe edition, more should have been included besides the modules) I can 100% get behind your right to that opinion.

    While I may or may not agree with your assessment, I am much more behind "I don't think the Deluxe Edition is a great value for my money" than "I think the modules released by Bioware shouldn't be charged for because Beamdog did nothing with them."

    And if that's me misinterpreting what I've read previously in the thread, you have my apologies. :)

    @modestvolta

    First off, uber congratulations (late obviously) on the kid, I'm behind you on baby duty "dude" (not attempting to assume your gender as both my kids would say), I had two of them myself years ago (they're teenagers now so it's been a few years)...babies are hard! :) Hope you're getting some sleep every once in a while.

    I also wanted to tell you I stand behind you in your ability to disagree with how Beamdog has monetized NWN. I do not agree that the base price should have included all available content (including the Bioware Sold Modules) but I do stand behind the way you've presented your disagreement, even if I don't agree with your assessment.

    As a long time poster and recent lurker on the forums, I'd just like to PERSONALLY (again, not speaking for Beamdog or it's staff...yadda yadda yadda) thank EVERYONE in this thread (detractors and supporters) for a disagreement that has been kept civilized, above board and well reasoned.

    This isn't the only thread on the forums (by far) where disagreements are being kept civil, but it's a great example of one that has.

    Thanks everyone.

    saramakosReibornbleusteel
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