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The redeeming of the terrible, horrible, no-good NWN Original Campaign for the EE

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Comments

  • MrDamageMrDamage Member Posts: 209

    I don't want to shock anyone but I enjoyed the OC and thought that the rest system was OK. I along with a lot of other people absolutely hate resting restrictions. For casual gamers and those who play mainly for the exploration aspects of the game, such restrictions are a definite turn off. Instead of calling for them to be incorporated (as you appear to be doing) into the normal difficulty setting why not ask BD to create a new hard core difficulty setting that has them?

    TR

    Agree. If you look at this threads request and the other ‘story mode’ request for casual gaming and then the other super adjustable difficulty mega slider thing from elder scrolls, this should all be put through the same sausage maker somehow to come up with something awesome. (Preferably not an actual sausage)

    dTd
  • YgramulYgramul Member Posts: 1,059
    Sure thing. These are not contradictory requests.

    I'm perfectly fine with some people enjoying a story mode.

    To me, personally, an RPG is playable only if there is a prospect of a no-reload game where
    - I can win, but only if I play with meticulous attention
    - I will lose, if I am haphazard about it.

    To these criteria, NWN campaign is mostly a joke.

    I fear that the lack of challenge (at least as a "sausage slider" option as mentioned) will also keep new players from investing in NWN:EE.

  • TarotRedhandTarotRedhand Member Posts: 1,150
    Funny, the lack of perma-death hasn't stopped people buying other games such as the various Lego titles...

    TR

    DerpCitydTdStummvonBordwehrMirandel
  • FreshLemonBunFreshLemonBun Member Posts: 907
    Nor those soul games for that matter.

  • YgramulYgramul Member Posts: 1,059
    Good job, folks.

    It must be for no reason at all then that the singularly longest thread in all of the forums here is in fact the NO-RELOAD thread.

    But, sure, yeah, ignore the idea as meritable and instead go play the Lego titles or whatever.

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,019
    edited March 2018
    No need for hard feelings. The feedback shared in this topic is valuable. I've been thinking of adding the link to it to https://trello.com/c/ynlo5eRi/116-tweak-the-difficulty-settings

    Post edited by JuliusBorisov on
    YgramulJFKMrDamagedTd
  • MrDamageMrDamage Member Posts: 209
    edited March 2018
    Ok so I fired up the sausage maker and below is what came out, and what I meant. The difficulty section now has 3 components. This is just s ballpark but it’s something material to get the ball rolling if anybody wants to actually kick it along. Or tear it down due to unforeseen holes, all good




    Difficulty slider

    Story mode-
    You can still die, but the game will have to drop the equivalent of an atom bomb on you.
    Easy-nwn vanilla
    Normal-nwn vanilla
    Hard(D&D hardcore rules)- nwn vanilla
    Difficult-nwn vanilla

    Respawn settings
    Unrestricted, no death penalties
    Normal(recommended), xp, gp loss- nwn vanilla
    Hard, As per normal x2 + -D4 constitution. Regain +1 con per 48 game hours. If con reaches 0 permadeath results
    Hardcore extreme
    As per normal + -D12 CON if con reaches 0, permadeath results. Regain +1 per 48 game hours
    Permadeath- single run, on death campaign ends for you character.

    Extreme Permadeath- (recommended only for the clinically insane) as per permadeath but on death, game automatically uninstalls and CD key invalidated.

    Rest settings

    Easy( rest not required) character regenerates at a very slow rate and spells return after 8hr in game cool down
    Normal-nwn vanilla
    Hard- character must rest every 12 hours or attack/ rolls penalties accumulate every hour after.

    TarotRedhand
  • DerpCityDerpCity Member, Moderator Posts: 303
    edited March 2018
    For the record, there is the hidden Very Easy difficulty setting where you're set to immortal. Not Plot/dm_god mode, where you're immune to pretty much every negative status effect and don't even take damage, you just don't reduce below 1 HP. I feel opening that up as a playable difficulty rather than a DM set one could constitute as a "story mode" setting.

    dTdMrDamage
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    Ygramul said:

    Sure thing. These are not contradictory requests.

    I'm perfectly fine with some people enjoying a story mode.

    To me, personally, an RPG is playable only if there is a prospect of a no-reload game where
    - I can win, but only if I play with meticulous attention
    - I will lose, if I am haphazard about it.

    To these criteria, NWN campaign is mostly a joke.

    I fear that the lack of challenge (at least as a "sausage slider" option as mentioned) will also keep new players from investing in NWN:EE.

    The issue is this: you like to play for a challenge. Fair enough. It's when you extend this to "this will keep new players from investing in NWN:EE" that you are making invalid assumptions about what other people look for in a game. I thought that the NWN OC was a poor effort, but I never once thought it was too easy (or too difficult). For me, I am looking for an engaging story first and foremost, and the story in the NWN OC is dull, predictable, and linear.

    I don't really see that there is much that can be done to fix that - I would rather see efforts focused on producing a new campaign with a more interesting story and characters.

    TarotRedhandMirandel
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,644
    edited March 2018
    I'm not against difficulty tweaks as long as they're optional.

    I do think not enough credit is being given to some no-reload stoppers in the game, though. The bloated dire spider in Beggar's Nest, Gulnan, Desther, and Smaug come to mind. Meldanen's apprentices can very easily end a no-reload with Ice Storms, and with Tony K's AI installed (which makes the game resemble SCS somewhat), Meldanen himself casts his spells better and can end the careless player with Cone of Cold.

    I would agree that most of the vanilla OC is too easy, though, especially at high levels.

    In fairness, Baldur's Gate has huge stretches of easy combat, especially without SCS.

    SoU and HotU have quite a few no-reload stopping battles.

    EDIT: I've watched a lot of Let's Play's of the NWN OC on YouTube, and they all die. A lot. They save scum like you wouldn't believe. Are they all just horrible players? I'd really enjoy watching somebody who thinks the OC is easy to no-reload prove it. Even just Act One as a successful no-reload. On the highest difficulty slider setting.

    tbone1
  • FreshLemonBunFreshLemonBun Member Posts: 907
    Essentially I see merit in the option for a no reload difficulty option but I disagree that it is necessary for sales as evidenced by other games without the option that have enviable sales.

  • YgramulYgramul Member Posts: 1,059
    Fardragon said:


    I don't really see that there is much that can be done to fix that - I would rather see efforts focused on producing a new campaign with a more interesting story and characters.

    Exactly. I agree. I don't want Beamdog wasting more than minimal effort on the OC.

    That is why I suggested that the OC changes should be **minor tweaks** only AND optional, at that. (And nothing about an explicit no-reload setting. The changes below make such a playthrough merely enjoyable.)

    To recap:

    1. make resting non-trivial

    2. make death have consequences.

    For both #1 & #2 follow Storms of Zehir (NWN2):

    - no resting every few minutes (time cap, say 8 hours, AND/OR use of resting supplies) -- in Storms of Zehir, resting in a dungeon is only possible with a consumable that costs a lot of gold.

    - dead party members don't just pop back up good as new in a moment. If they bleed out, you either Raise Dead or (early on) you use a consumable magic item to bring them to life (again expensive).


    That's it.

    Easy peasy.

    Combine this with some NPC management (inventory etc.) and you have a campaign that is actually tolerable.

  • raz651raz651 Member Posts: 175
    couldn't you do all the above yourself? It is a role playing game after all.
    Rest only every 8 hrs. Time yourself
    Subtract gold to play for your expensive raise dead or respawn.
    Subtract gold for resting in a dungeon.

    Minimal NPC inventory management would have to begin with updating the OC to use XP1 and XP2 Henchman.

    tgx
  • tgxtgx Member Posts: 40
    Didn't they also say that it's now up to the community to do with the original campaigns as they like? They went on and on about it, about how to grab the file and make it a .mod, and then use the toolset to do a "community edition". That was what I got from it. Didn't everyone?

    dTd
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