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Killing Trolls with Damage-over-time Acid Spells?

I was on the second level of Dragon's Eye with my solo Dragon Disciple. Naturally I was using damage-over-time acid spells, namely Melf's Acid Arrow and Vitriolic Sphere, to deal with those pesky trolls. Now this is where I noticed something strange.

Before I begin, let me tell you that my DD is on level 10, so that means Melf's Acid Arrow will last for 4 rounds, while Vitriolic Sphere will last for 5 rounds at most. So first I'm injuring the trolls to a "Near Death" condition with Skull Traps and Magic Missiles, before landing the Acid spell. Strangely enough, after the troll goes unconscious, the acid spell does not do any more damage even though its duration is not completely over yet. Now that makes me waste another precious spell slot to cast a second acid arrow to finish off the troll after it goes unconscious.

Now my question is: Is this the intended behaviour? Or am I doing something wrong? That is, if I cast an Acid Arrow on a troll just before it goes unconscious, will the damage not continue after it has gone unconscious (even though the spell's duration is still left)? This is confusing me...

Note: I've posted this in the General Section instead of the IWDEE section, because it's more of a general gameplay question about the IE games. :)

JuliusBorisov

Comments

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,466
    Exactly. It's terrible. One of my least-favorite aspects of these games.

    Rik_KirtaniyaThacoBellMalicron
  • DrakeICNDrakeICN Member Posts: 623
    Eh why would you use acid anyway? Trolls are the only time when the second level cleric / druid spell flame blade is useful, ever, in the entire trilogy. Killing trolls with anything but this spell is to designate it to the same category as Goodberry.

  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 1,045
    edited May 2018
    If someone could make a small mod that just makes Trolls especially vulnerable to acid/ fire with an increased regen rate rather than this corpse swapping nonsense it would be gratefully received I'm sure.

  • Rik_KirtaniyaRik_Kirtaniya Member Posts: 1,506
    DrakeICN said:

    Eh why would you use acid anyway? Trolls are the only time when the second level cleric / druid spell flame blade is useful, ever, in the entire trilogy. Killing trolls with anything but this spell is to designate it to the same category as Goodberry.

    @DrakeICN That's because I'm playing with a solo Dragon Disciple, and not with a party, as I have already mentioned in my original post. :)

    I was on the second level of Dragon's Eye with my solo Dragon Disciple. Naturally I was using damage-over-time acid spells, namely Melf's Acid Arrow and Vitriolic Sphere, to deal with those pesky trolls.

    kjeron said:

    I’m pretty sure what happens mechanically is that once the troll is sufficiently damaged and ready to fall over, the game replaces the troll with a different creature template of a “near death” troll that is lying on the ground and needs fire/acid/poison damage to kill. If you don’t kill in time it is then replaced with another “fresh” troll.

    That was the original game, the issue in the EE's is that it applies a Dispel Magic effect on the troll when it falls down, and acid spells like Melf's Acid Arrow and Vitriolic Sphere are Resistable/Dispellable in the BG/IWD series, so their delayed damage gets removed.
    I think it'd be great if this particular Dispel Magic effect is removed. :smiley: I don't know for sure, but is there any particular reason why it's there, and will removing it have any other unwanted consequences? Maybe we can hope to see it improved in the future updates? :)

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,466
    Mantis37 said:

    If someone could make a small mod that just makes Trolls especially vulnerable to acid/ fire with an increased regen rate rather than this corpse swapping nonsense it would be gratefully received I'm sure.

    It's been tried, but my (very vague) understanding is this it can get really screwy. The game expects those scripted CRE chsnges. Or something like that.

    Mantis37
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 14,078
    It should be entirely possible to add an effect to Melf's Acid Arrow that the troll script can detect. An example would an .eff file targeting trolls that temporarily adds an item to an unused item slot. The script could have two deaths for the troll: instant death for trolls who have that item in their inventory, and replacement for trolls who do not. All you'd have to do would be to tweak one spell (two spells for IWD's Vitriolic Sphere) and one script, neither of which should conflict with many mods.

    bob_veng
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,295
    what's happening would be non-transparent to novice players as a discrete acid damage instance and death wouldn't coincide, and the timing difference could even be quite big. but it would be okay if it was explained somewhere in the game

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,100
    From what I understand it's still supposed to be a thing that you can only kill a Troll with fire or acid though.

    Even if you do enough damage to outpace their regeneration, they'll just get up again if you don't properly treat the corpse.

    I don't think that's something they made up for the games or anything.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,035
    @Chronicler This is true. Unfortunately, th way the engine works, there isn't really a great implementation of this. I love @subtledoctor 's proposed solution, as it fits a nice middle ground between fire and acid still being the preferred way to take down a troll, without the extremely annoying bugs accompanied by the current implementation.

  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 1,918
    The kill spells work to kill trolls entirely without them going inconcious and thereby prevent the necessity for fire or acid.

    ThacoBell
  • Rik_KirtaniyaRik_Kirtaniya Member Posts: 1,506
    lroumen said:

    The kill spells work to kill trolls entirely without them going inconcious and thereby prevent the necessity for fire or acid.

    Well, you are able to use insta-kill spells (like Death Spell) against trolls only in BG2 (and that also only if you are lucky enough to get the spell's scroll as a random drop, or are playing as a Sorcerer). Here in IWD, one cannot get it that early (in Dragon's Eye). Even if one is playing a solo sorcerer, level 6 spells are obtained much later. So sadly, we cannot use it against the trolls in Dragon's Eye.

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