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Last fight in ascension

Hello, i completed all of the ascension fights on hardest except the last fight. It is bugging me. I want to make a good plan for it.

I was thinking of this party:
- berserker/mage (or fighter/mage, what do you think ?)
- Minsc (always have him, not debatable)
- Jaheira (romance, not debatable)
- Nalia (because she is a mage)
- Aerie (because she is a mage, cleric spells help too)
- Imoen (because she is a mage)

Now you might think this to be a strange party for power play. But in the last fight, the biggest problem is that when you kill 1 enemy, mellisan teleports in and she is just insaine. SO my plan is to kill of all 5 enemies at once. Obviously the best and maybe only way for this is time stop bombardment - hense why i have so many mages.

My plan is to soften the enemies in first time stop, meaning case lower resistance on them and use that neat longsword that lowers the resistance also. Then use berserker/mage to get all chars to near death. And then just use time stops to cast all sorts of damage spells that will kill all 5 at once.

Next, that is if the last step is doable, mellisan. Her spawn demon ability is just insaine, i simply dont know how to get around that. But yeah, next step is to simply attack her with everything i got. So what do you think ? I really need advices because that last battle is frustration supreme




JuliusBorisovthe_sextein

Comments

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 15,565
    edited June 8
    Have you tried to use the Remove Entourage from Ascension Fallen Solars component from https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/66358/mod-jimfix-ascension-scs-fixes-general-tweaks? It'll address the demon summoning ability.

    Post edited by JuliusBorisov on
  • chimaerachimaera Member Posts: 608
    Last time I've played Ascension Mel would rejoin the fight whenever a time stop was used, and she is immune to it. Your non mage characters would be sitting ducks then (no pfmw).

    ThacoBell
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 6,294
    *whistles* Good luck, its a toughie. But yes, Mel is immune to time stop and she will punish you hard for using it. Abazigal also knows time stop and will cast it on you. If you can get one of the optional allies for this fight, they will help take a lot of heat off your party initially (they can still die). I personally take care of the squishes and casters first (Ilasera and Sendai). The more enemies you can take down, the easier the fight gets. I always have at least one character or summons occupying Abazigal, keeping him in melee seems to prevent his Time Stop VERY RELIABLY.
    When Mel joins the fight, DONT FORGET ABOUT YOU CHARNAMES NEW SPECIAL ABILITIES. You can wrest control of her demons and make them fight for you, and you get an ability to protect your character from time stop (its an active ability, so make sure to cast it when Mel starts casting timestop). When she timestops you, she WILL teleport to your charname and pop a greater whirlwind (this WILL kill you, period). A key part of the fight is preventing that. Aside from this, focus targets down (Yaga Shura has absurd health and just a physical attack, so he is a good last target.

    Its a brutal fight, so don't feel even a little bad if you need to reduce the difficulty for this one fight. There is also a wonderful mod called "Turnabout" that allows you to summon allies to fight just like Mel. It really helps to distract all the bosses that would otherwise be killing you, and is really satisfying to fight side by side with these characters. Good luck.

    StummvonBordwehr
  • the_sexteinthe_sextein Member Posts: 519
    edited June 9
    I too am about to take this on. It's been years since I played Ascension. It didn't work with the EE versions for a while and when the beta first came out I was unaware of it. Around the time I was told about it, LOB mode was added and I chewed on that my last run through. This will be my first attempt at Ascension on LOB mode and would love to hear some pointers from anyone that has experience with it. Doesn't matter what difficulty to me, just tips in general would be cool.

    A user that goes by the handle gorgonzola recommended using the soul reaver two handed sword on Yaga Sura because it drains the enemies THAC0 and can cause him to be unable to hit your team I think. I hear a protection from magic scroll can be cast on Sendai to keep her mage powers in check. I too have heard that waiting until they are all about to die before killing any of them will keep mellisan at bay. When I played it years ago I remember it being a huge jump in difficulty and I had to lower the difficulty to core rules at the time. It's been 10 years and I have learned a lot both on my own and from the community. I think I may be able to handle it. Unfortunately, LOB mode is permanent so if I get stuck I will probably have to uninstall Ascension to finish the game. Hopefully some members of this site have some tips that could help us get past this challenge.

    Making friends with Balthazar is a major help because he is immune to time stop and will hurt your party if he is not on your side. Talking to him in the correct role playing options will get him to side with you for the final fight. If you are going to kill them at different times I hear that Illesara is the best one to go after first because her custom arrows can dispel your magic and cause some nasty side effects to your team. It's also worth pointing out again what thacobell said above. Use your new bhaal powers to stay alive during mellisan's time stops.

    @Lord_Tansheron and @semiticgod are two users on this site I would be interested in hearing from on this topic as between the two of them they should be able to cover ultra modded out game setups and quirky in depth tactics. Also @Grond0 seems to play these ultra hard setups solo so his tactics have to be pretty solid I would think.

    Post edited by the_sextein on
    ThacoBellStummvonBordwehr
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 6,294
    The sould reaver isn't a permanent debuff, but its long enough that you can keep a target locked down so long as you can hit it.

    Its funny, I don't use ANY kind of difficulty enhancing mods and I tend to play on Normal. But I happily put up with just this one brutal fight because the whole setpiece is amazing and the rest of the things Ascension does are just great.

  • the_sexteinthe_sextein Member Posts: 519
    When I beat the improved Acension/SCS Yaga Sura a week ago I had Serevok using the Ravager +6 and I think it's vorpral hit without save may have killed him because he had mid level health and then he suddenly died while I was fighting him. I don't know for certain that he is susceptible to the ravager's vorpal hit but I have reason to believe he might be. I think I'll use the soul reaver to keep his thaco down while some summons beat on him and then switch to the ravager when it comes time to clean house.

  • Very_BigSwordVery_BigSword Member Posts: 25

    When I beat the improved Acension/SCS Yaga Sura a week ago I had Serevok using the Ravager +6 and I think it's vorpral hit without save may have killed him because he had mid level health and then he suddenly died while I was fighting him. I don't know for certain that he is susceptible to the ravager's vorpal hit but I have reason to believe he might be. I think I'll use the soul reaver to keep his thaco down while some summons beat on him and then switch to the ravager when it comes time to clean house.

    Sarevok. Must have been deathbringer assault rather than vorpal hit that finished it. It does not make sense to have a boss who is susceptible to vorpal hits.

  • the_sexteinthe_sextein Member Posts: 519
    edited June 10
    I know what you mean, I thought it odd as well. Usually with the death bringer assault there is a flash of light but it's possible I just didn't see it. Everything was very chaotic and then you get pushed into a cut scene in the pocket plane so I didn't see what actually happened.

    I still have to do Sendai's lair and some EE content, finish up the pocket plane ect. I'll give it a shot, if I am successful, I will post a detailed strategy for the Ascension battle. If I can't manage it then I will report back but it could be a while. The game moves at a snails pace on LOB mode.

    StummvonBordwehrThacoBell
  • goblinslygoblinsly Member Posts: 5
    I still think i will stick to my bang them in 1 go strategy. I really dont want to fight yaga shura while mellisan is killing me :sweat:

  • the_sexteinthe_sextein Member Posts: 519
    edited June 25
    I finished the game today. It's been 10 years since I played ascension and back then LOB mode didn't exist. Even then it seemed extremely difficult. I can see now that the path to victory will be different based on your party and what strengths they have. In the end, the five were extremely easy for me to kill. It was formulating a strategy through trial and error that was difficult, time consuming, and frustrating. Now that I have a strategy that works for this party its no problem.

    I convinced Balthazar to join me for the final battle even though I was evil. This was something I didn't know was possible until recently. You need a 15+ wisdom, 20+ charisma, and a 20 reputation. The reputation should be easy if you do all of the quests and don't get caught stealing. The spell "friends" will boost your charisma to epic levels and you can consume potions to boost your wisdom temporarily. The conversation options to get Balthazar to join you as an evil character are: 2232111331121.Balthazar was key to me winning this last string of battles.

    SCS full install combined with LOB mode will give Celestials and demons roughly 7X normal HP and increase their levels, THAC0, APR, while improving their AI. Also, it removes the ability to bring an enemy to 1 HP with the spell "Harm". I had Jaheira in the party but her chances of landing a harm spell are not that great and 150 damage is all it does, which is a drop in the bucket considering the enemies HP. Considering Mel has massive resistances to both magic and damage this fight will take some time. Check out Mel's HP in the text box of the screenshot below.




    FIGHTING IRENICUS:

    Use "Protection From Undead" scrolls to make your party undetectable by Bodie and will avoid her nasty insect plague.

    I Ran to the opposite side of the arena with boots of speed and let the enemies focus on Balthazar.

    If you kill Fallen Solars or Meriliths they will be re-summoned within a few seconds if you have not killed Bodie first.

    I used a time stop spell and then cast imprisonment on Bodie and a merilith to kill them instantly.

    I set a timestop trap with my FMT that allowed me to destroy Irenicus "Mislead" illusion.

    I used Valier's helm to cast simulacrum on Serevok so that I had two Ravager vorprol hits. When combined with greater whirlwind they will insta kill fallen Solars effectively.

    I used summons and breach spells to keep the Mereliths at bay and then it was just a matter of cleaning up the lessor demons.

    Irenicus was playing hide and seek. I cast "true sight" and then sent a planateer after him. It chased him off screen and vorprol killed him for me.

    FINAL BATTLE PREPERATIONS:

    I set 3 timestop traps in the main playing area and 2 more in the northern pool area as pictured below. However, due to a bug that would consume multiple traps at once I had to increase my traps to 5X in the main area and 2X in the pool area. This is the maximum number of traps you can lay without cheating. The screenshot below also shows that lowering your reputation by turning into the ravager will allow an evil character to keep Serevok and still have Balthazar on your team.



    This is a shot of my trap set up in the northern pool room.



    FIGHTING THE FIVE:

    Immediately my timestop traps go off. Improved haste allows me to have 10 APR with a 24 strength from a potion and I have cast mislead on myself. This allows for 8 backstabs and 2 normal attacks a round. I immediately knock Abizigal down to "near death". Then I knock Gromnir to "near death" status and cast a scroll of magic protection on Sendai. I then move my FMT to the northern pool area and cast another improved haste on him to keep him going.

    As Soon as my traps end I have Nalia cast time stop. I then have her cast Imprisonment on Yaga Sura and Illisara. Then I move her to join my FMT at the pool and cast simulacrum. When the timestop spell ends I have a few seconds to move the rest of my team to the northon pool because imprisonment has a little animation before it instantly kills Yaga and Illisara. I left Balthazar and my summons in the main area to keep Mel busy while I finished off the remaining 3 of the 5.

    Yaga and Illesara's death will trigger Mellisans appearance. She should focus on Balthazar and you should have some long lasting summons like Planateer and earth elemental to keep her from killing Balthazar. The remaining 3 will follow you into the northern pool and trigger your time stop traps. I kill Sendai first which will knock mellison down. I then kill the remaining two who are already near death, before my timestop traps run out.

    With the 5 killed and your whole team undamaged and fully buffed, things are going well. Mel will summon a ton of demons but as long as she does it out on the main arena they will stay away from your team that is up in the northern pool. Just don't let any summons that they are attacking come back to you.

    KILLING MELLISAN

    The trick is to get her to come to you without bringing her merry band of demons with her. Once you have done that, you can cast ruby ray and breach at her and attack full on with all HLA's. This fight takes awhile and if she teleports out, don't follow her. Take the time to restore your buffs. Don't be afraid to pull a character out and have them reapply protections. Armor of Faith, Hardiness, stoneskins, mirror image ect.I used sequencers and triggers that had multiple lower resistances and greater malison. I hit her with sequencers that had acid arrow and fire arrow spells. Her defenses will continue to pop back up so you will need to pay attention. Flail of ages works well and so does Crom Fayer, Ravager and rod of RAM. Eventually she will fall.




    UNSPOKEN PUNISHMENTS FOR USING ABILITIES THAT THE GAME DOESN'T LIKE.
    You will notice that Serevok didn't make it in my screen shot of mellisan's defeat above. Even Balthazar lived but the reason why is because serevok created a simulacrum of himself with the helm of vailer and was equipped with soul reaver. I noticed that Mel will timestop and ignore your character until the offending problem is removed from your party. Another example is mass improved invisibility. If you cast it, Fallen solars will come swarming to your location and dispel all of your protections while calling all of the other demons to your location. Learning what the game likes and dislikes is very frustrating. I can't say I really like this approach to gameplay and it does set it apart from the vanilla game. I noticed examples of this in the improved boss battles with the five as well. Timestop traps are also annoying when you are depending on them and they bug out. Pathfinding is a major annoyance when you are trying to cast imprisonment and you mage just stutters around the enemy instead of actually casting.

    I have a rule that I always replay and tweak my strategy until all 6 characters survive. This forces me to win without depending on luck. However, being that this was the final battle, it seemed kind of cool to just let Serevok return to dust after having used him to get the job done. I like to think that turning down the power of a god may have redeemed my evil status and in a way Balthazar was also redeemed and became my 6th party member for the end credits.


    Edit: The only mods used in this setup was EET, SCS full Install and of course the Ascension mod. My main character had about 7.6 million XP when he reached the final confrontation with the five. I didn't do any grinding but I did play SOD and all of the EE content for BG2 and TOB. A completionism run.

    Post edited by the_sextein on
    ThacoBellStummvonBordwehr
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 6,294
    Melissan can be hit by Harm!?

  • the_sexteinthe_sextein Member Posts: 519
    edited June 24
    ThacoBell said:

    Melissan can be hit by Harm!?

    I saw a YouTube video that showed someone do it. I don't know if it's possible or not without cheating because I didn't bother to use it. Jahiera was the only one that could cast it and she only has -4 thaco with bless so her chances of landing it was not good. I considered it but SCS alters harm so that it only does 150 damage instead of reducing the target to 1, so it won't really decide the battle even if Mellisan isn't immune to it normally. It's possible that she is immune to it and the youtuber that did it was cheating. This same Youtuber used a million skull traps to kill the 5 and had selective SCS options enabled so who knows what kind of rules and exploits they were using.

    If you are playing a game without SCS modifications to harm it might be a possibility to one shot mellisan using the harm spell. I figure if your main character was a cleric you would have a good chance of landing it. Unfortunately I don't know if it will work or not in a vanilla installation of Ascension. Maybe someone else has tried it and can leave some knowledge here.

    I edited my above post so that it doesn't specifically imply that a harm spell can be used against Mell without SCS because I really don't know. :)

    Post edited by the_sextein on
    ThacoBell
  • the_sexteinthe_sextein Member Posts: 519
    edited June 26
    Regarding buffs, I used....
    potions of magic blocking
    potions of magic shielding
    potions of fire protection
    scrolls of fire protection
    potions of clarity
    potion of strength on main character
    potions of invulnerability (where applicable)

    All of the below are used on characters who can use them.
    stoneskin
    ironskin
    armor of faith
    hardiness
    improved haste
    spell shield
    spell turning
    spell trap
    spell immunity abjuration
    Mirror image
    mislead on main character
    That's about it.

    With 7 timestop traps and the above buffs it's possible to have all six party members and Balthazar survive the final Ascension battle on LOB mode with a full install of SCS. It's also worth noting that a planateer is immune to damage from most of the demons. If you have one helping Balthazar to keep mellisan busy while you finish off the five, leaving it out there will keep the demons busy. Just don't select everyone with the select all button when you attack because that will lead the planateer and all of the demons to you.

    Here is a screenshot of the Mellisan battle in the northern pool area with the demons left out in the main area.



    If you give the demons something to focus on and then they kill it and nothing is around for them to attack, they will just sit around and not bother you. :D You need to make sure mellisan is kept busy and out in the main area when you kill the final of the five. When she gets up she immediately summons her demons where she stands. She will then warp in to the northern room and face you alone.

    EDIT: Also, when she warps into the northern room to face my party, she casts timestop beforehand so it's a good idea to use your focus ability at this point. If you can get her to focus on your main character then you can lead her around but sometimes she will focus on somone like serevok and kill them while they are helpless. In my experience, she will attack what she considers to be the biggest threat. So it kind of depends what protections and weapons you have equipped. It could just be random though, I can't say with certainty as I didn't program it. If you can get her to focus on your main character then you should be able to keep your entire team alive until the end.

    One last thing before I stop with all of these long posts is that this strategy is dependable in that it works repeatedly but I would be lying if I said it works all the time. Ascension requires that everything work just right and sometimes the AI is quirky and the game mechanics are a bit buggy. It does require multiple tries for me to beat it using this method but I have beaten it multiple times using this method so I can depend on it to work with a little persistence. While my method is meant for my team I hope some of this info might give players a few ideas they maybe hadn't thought of to try with their teams. I've tried to be as informative as possible given my own party and abilities. :) In my opinion, this entire run of the game was challenging at every moment. Some spots were harder than others but I think the final Ascension battle is by far the most challenging fight in the game.

    Post edited by the_sextein on
    ThacoBellStummvonBordwehrBorek
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