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July 20 Livestream Recap

JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,714
Enjoy the full recap of today's stream.

http://blog.beamdog.com/2018/07/july-20-livestream-recap.html

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P.S. During the next month, I'll be on vacation, so recaps will go out with a delay.
anastielAedanStummvonBordwehrThacoBell[Deleted User]AdulAerakar

Comments

  • anastielanastiel Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 246
    a pity to have known the company now, but now every Friday will be a holy day to watch the livestream
    Aerakar
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,714
    edited July 2018
    The “NWSync” feature will let you go to the server list in Neverwinter Nights: Enhanced Edition, choose a server, and it will download automatically required files needed to connect to the server.


    Good job!

    What Phil means by the full party control is that we want to control henchmen better. We don’t want a free camera, it will be more like KotOR than like Neverwinter Nights II. Neverwinter Nights: Enhanced Edition is a single person game, it’s about you being the character on the character sheet. We want to make henchmen more responsible, which will let you continue being the character you play.


    Damn, when I think that you guys are getting closer to make NWN perfect you find a way to disappoint me.

    Baldur's Gate is also a single-player game and we have a true FPC. Beamdog is clearly letting their members' personal view decide what to do with NWN, instead of acting accordingly to the community's feedback.

    What a weak argument.
    anastiel
  • GreenWarlockGreenWarlock Member Posts: 1,354
    Have a great vacation Julius. Guess I'll just have to actually watch the streams now ;)
    Contemplative_Hamster[Deleted User]Aerakar
  • lefreutlefreut Member Posts: 1,462
    Nooooooo, @ThacoBell is not the first one to comment on this topic, he lost his superpower :'(
    StummvonBordwehrContemplative_HamsterThacoBellAerakar
  • Contemplative_HamsterContemplative_Hamster Member Posts: 844
    edited July 2018


    On September, 1 Beamdog will do a special announcement panel at PAX West. Tune on Twitch in for news about a game we haven’t announced yet! More news soon!

    Please let it be Chuck Rock: Enhanced Edition and Chuck Rock II: Son of Chuck: Enhanced Edition.

    Or Lego Racers: Enhanced Edition.

    I'm serious. Take my money!
    ThacoBell[Deleted User]
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
    ThacoBell
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,714
    edited July 2018
    @typo_tilly

    Nobody modded that because it is a hardcoded thing. Lots of people tried, what reflects that the community wants it. And by Beamdog's speech is easy to see that it isn't a matter of "we can't" but "we won't".

    There's a reason why Tony K's AI Mod is such a fever among NWN's player. It is the closest anyone ever got to FPC.

    The only way of getting FPC in NWN is through Beamdog, unfortunately. Otherwise, I wouldn't even bother to buy NWNEE as so far I'm not impressed with anything they presented (except for the NWSync).

    Edit: If Beamdog is willing to gain money over old games, they shouldn't be afraid of doing "serious reworking". And apparently, they are doing precisely that. So the fact that FPC is a hard task (probably it is) is no reason to put it aside. Unless, of course, some overwhelming technical barrier appears.

    The problem is that all I hear and read is @TrentOster and @PhillipDaigle saying "we don't believe that NWN should be played like that, so we will enforce our opinion instead of hearing the community's feedback".
    [Deleted User]
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
    RaduzielBelgarathMTH
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,714

    I know they tried to get 7 character slots for BG, but it was too much work.

    That's the main difference. To try.
    [Deleted User]BelgarathMTH
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    I think part of it is the focus. NWN was always conceived as a multiplayer game, where you could log onto a server with your charcter and play with other real people. Full party control, as good as it is for us lone wolves, doesn't really fit the main idea behind NWN.
    [Deleted User]GreenWarlockMiraStastny
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,714
    ThacoBell said:

    I think part of it is the focus. NWN was always conceived as a multiplayer game, where you could log onto a server with your character and play with other real people. Full party control, as good as it is for us lone wolves, doesn't really fit the main idea behind NWN.

    FPC will have zero impact and whoever decides to play NWN like that.

    The lack of FPC impacts severely whoever decides to play NWN as a single-player game.

    I understand your argument, but I can't agree with it. And as I said, I'm not a lonely voice asking for FPC. So why push that idea aside?

    I really try to understand some of Beamdog's policy, but they make a hard time for me to do it. As a customer, as a manager, as a fan.

    Why update BGEE and SoD separately? Why leave the huge plothole from Soultaker? Why not add IWD spells into BG(2)EE? Why not give us the parley truce option in SoD? Why refuse to give us FPC in NWN? Why not ship BG(2)EE with its cut content (Unfinished Business)?

    Sometimes looks like Beamdog does a huge effort to ignore us.
    [Deleted User]BelgarathMTHTimbo0o0o0Shadowdemon
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    @Raduziel
    "Doing this would not be an issue for tablet/phone users, not an issue for PC/Mac users. "
    Tablet and phone users have consitently been the last to be updated. Its probably simpler to patch the individual games, roll it out for the mobile crowd, and then carry the changes over to the bundle users. Imagine if SoD+BG got patched first, only for beamdog to find out that because of the way it was structured, that they would have to start from scratch AGAIN for the mobile crowd. At least this way, we know that every component is compatible across all systems.

    "What about the rage towards SoD's NPCs? The trolls didn't rage towards that? So why they decided to go ahead with it and leave the plot open? And the homophobic rage that stormed SoD, was it ignored?"
    There were teasings that Beamdog was considering adding the SoD npcs to BG2, but was likely abandoned for the same reasons. Remember how vocal the hate was for awhile, (someone killed themselves over it). I didn't address the npcs, because your question was directed entirely at the Soultaker.

    "So why add that scene that is hugely anticlimactic? It could be removed completely. The way it works now just makes me feel stupid for trusting for a second that my opinion would matter. "
    Entirely subjective. I really enjoyed that whole sequence. No real point in arguing over it. Some people liked it, some didn't. I think there is a lot of mod potential here though.

    "That's your opinion about how the game should be played. Let me remind you that there is a single player campaign (with two single-player expansions), single player premium modules, single player community-created-campaigns, and etcetera. Even the new source of revenue for Beamdog (DoD) is a single player module."
    Not just my opinion. Trent envisioned it as such when he made it the first time. Are all these modules REALLY single player only? I suspect they can all be played with friends. And implementing FPC would take dev time and resources away from other areas. So it probably would affect the multiplayer in some way. I'm not a fan of it, you aren't a fan of it, but its still a multiplayer game first.

    [Deleted User]RaduzielAerakar
  • MiraStastnyMiraStastny Member Posts: 813
    edited July 2018
    I find most of the stuff from the UB pretty good and some content even feels less like a fanmod to me than the SoD ending for example.

    There are some components I don't like: How the Boo kidnapping quest drops you into the druid grove (even if you never been to Trademeet) and Artemis Entreri appearance might be little over the top. But overall, I actually like that most of the components add just a little things here and there.

    And I don't think that most of the UB content was cut due to designers' decisions, but mostly because of time constraints. But I could be wrong here.
    [Deleted User]AedanMERLANCE
  • Ludwig_IILudwig_II Member Posts: 369
    edited July 2018
    Raduziel said:

    Why not give us the parley truce option in SoD?

    This is my biggest disappointment with SOD too. The lack of options in the main story. It really should have given us another option in the main quest. I know the reasoning behind it was lack of resources, but this would make the game considerably better and near perfect in my opinion. So I think it would be totally worth. And, there could be a solution with a little amount of work as well. You don't have to write the whole story and create a whole set of chain events. If not enough resources, there could be an event after truce(actually my preference would be believing and joining Caelar in her quest) that would break your trust in each other and force you back to the main story. And I haven't even given any thought about a proper solution, I'm sure Beamdog could have found one, if they paid enough importance to it. But not having the option to be able to agree with her is just...disappointing.
    ThacoBell said:

    @Raduziel
    "So why add that scene that is hugely anticlimactic? "
    Entirely subjective. I think there is a lot of mod potential here though.

    The mod potential is not true. Because the main quest has characters that are voiced over, how can a modder add conversations of Caelar and so without breaking immersion? That is why we really needed to have choice from Beamdog at that point. Because the way it is now feels too artificial to me.

    The only time I felt close to this disappointed in whole Baldur's Gate series was when I noticed I couldn't side with the Shadow Druids in the original BG. That felt like a big shame at that time, and this one is unfortunately a bigger one.
    ThacoBell said:

    The only way to rectify this is for Beamdog to introduce a SoulTaker questline in BG2, and solve the dangling plot thread from SoD!

    I know ThacoBell is the only that keeps voicing this constantly, but actually he is not the only one that is expecting this. I think it's fair to expect Beamdog to make the story of the whole series consistent, instead of expecting modders to fix it. I know Beamdog is a relatively smallish(but successful IMO) company, so how about fixing the immersion in a smallish way with the smallest amount of new content then? I think BG series deserve that much.
    Post edited by Ludwig_II on
    ThacoBell[Deleted User]batoor
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    @Raduziel
    You points definitely have merit. Everything I'm discussing about Beamdog's practices are based on what I have seen around the forums in the last 5 years and since SoD's release, but it is largely speculation. I do want to just point out one thing.
    " The fact is, NWN have cannon elements that were designed for a single player experience."

    The fact is, it wasn't. The biggest thing about NWN was the online functionality, along with the editor to allow players to play with and DM wach other. The solo campaign was very much just an example adventure. Its all about creating and sharing content with others.
    Raduziel
  • gugulug5000gugulug5000 Member Posts: 248
    I know no one asked me, but my thoughts on some of those questions:

    FPC: Yes please! I bought NWN when it was first released thinking it was going to be the same style as BG or ID. The fact that I could only control one character was the biggest disappointment for me. They could just make it module specific, and it wouldn't have to affect multiplayer at all, but this is a major feature that I would love to have (as someone who really only plays single player).

    Icewind Dale and BG Spells: Also, yes please. This would be a great enhancement, much like adding the different kits to the other games. I think they should start with whichever are missing and adding those, then maybe going for some consistent rules between the two games. I would just like to have them all there in both games. I thought about making a ticket for this, but I couldn't find a list of spells that were not included in both.

    Unfinished Business: I've never played with mods, but I think they could go through, polish up, and add some of the cut content. Obviously they would need to make sure additions don't affect a character negatively, like in the Jaheira example, but other cut content could be elaborated on and added. It may just need to be done on a case by case situation.

    Soultaker Plot: I'm with you @ThacoBell ! We just need to make Trent understand that there is actually a demand for it.
    RaduzielThacoBell
  • lefreutlefreut Member Posts: 1,462
    Raduziel said:

    ThacoBell said:

    @Raduziel Should I actually try to answer all those?

    "Why update BGEE and SoD separately?"

    Because they ARE separate for tablet and phone users. So they need a stable solo patch for each one.

    But they aren't for Mac and PC users. BGEE's patch and SoD's patch could perfectly be released together to not generate the ridiculous situation of breaking the compatibility between a game and its expansion. Doing this would not be an issue for tablet/phone users, not an issue for PC/Mac users.
    Maybe I'm missing what you are arguing about, but BGEE 2.5 and SoD 2.5 will be released together, they said it during the stream and it's in the recap.
    Contemplative_HamsterAedan
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,714
    @lefreut Currently they are not on the same version. BGEE received an update that wasn't delivered to SoD, so now we have two choices:

    Downgrade BGEE and deal with things that are already solved in the patch.

    Disable SoD and not enjoy a content that we paid for.

    Either way, we lose something. Beamdog could have avoided this mismatch by holding BGEE's patch or, best case scenario, updating both.

    Anyway, looks like the next update will fix this. Good. I sincerely hope that Beamdog has the wisdom to release both patches at the same time this time.
  • lefreutlefreut Member Posts: 1,462
    Raduziel said:

    @lefreut Currently they are not on the same version. BGEE received an update that wasn't delivered to SoD, so now we have two choices:

    Downgrade BGEE and deal with things that are already solved in the patch.

    Disable SoD and not enjoy a content that we paid for.

    Either way, we lose something. Beamdog could have avoided this mismatch by holding BGEE's patch or, best case scenario, updating both.

    Anyway, looks like the next update will fix this. Good. I sincerely hope that Beamdog has the wisdom to release both patches at the same time this time.

    On PC, they are on the same stable version. BGEE have a beta that SoD does not have and I agree that it was a mistake, they should at least have made the BGEE beta compatible with a SoD install but it only impacts beta tester.

    If you want to do a full play through of the game, using a beta is not a good idea. It can be frustrating to know that you won't have the latest bug fixes, but you also avoid regressions (that should be fixed when the final version is released), you avoid compatibility problem with mods that may not yet be updated, ...
    ronaldoThacoBell
  • AdulAdul Member Posts: 2,002
    Nice update, it's good to hear things are chugging along. Have a great vacation, Julius!

    Just an FYI, the recap mentions that after the BG:EE and SoD patch, there will be one "final" update for IWD:EE to bring it up to speed with the other IE games. I'm not sure what the writer's intention was, but this sentence can be interpreted as the 2.5 update being the last patch for IWD:EE, after which development would be suspended. In the case that wasn't the intended meaning, the wording should probably be improved.
  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,438
    Raduziel said:

    ThacoBell said:

    "Why not add IWD spells into BG(2)EE?"

    Good question. I don't know, but there is some complication there. Quite a few spells that are in both games work VERY DIFFERENTLY. How do you choose what to bring over? Just the spells not in BG? Do you also change the already existing spells to match the IWD versions?

    Chose those that are closer to PnP. IMHO yes, the spells should have consistent behavior through the games, but just adding the IWD spells to BG would be a huge step towards an enhancement. Doing this would not create the problem "what behavior to choose?".
    Since I'm the person who's done the most on this front (oblig plug for IWDification goes here), I'll throw in my two cents. Let's start with the easy bit:
    Raduziel said:

    Chose those that are closer to PnP.

    The better choice is which implementation makes for a better game which, granted, may be the PnP version.

    The problem is not so much the addition of the spells--IWDification has done that for a while and, from the bug reports, does it fairly well--but the integration. I.e. adding all of these amazing druidic spells and then not having the Cloakwood druids use them against the party is suboptimal, at best. You need, at a minimum, to adjust multiple creature's spellbooks, multiple creature's AI scripting*, and also place arcane spell scrolls throughout the game. This is a massive task and is the sole** reason why IWDification remains on its fifth beta instead of v1.

    * Bonus points when all of that AI/spellbook work also breaks everyone's favorite mods like SCS.
    ** Well, OK, working on the patches and my chronic laziness may also be factors. Maybe. Perhaps.
    StummvonBordwehrGreenWarlockThacoBellAerakar
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,714
    @CamDawg Exactly because of IWDification that I get disappointed for this not being embraced by Beamdog.

    One person could do this much for free as a hobby. Why can't a professional team do this for money?

    We can count in one hand where there are druids to fight:

    Cloakwood, Druid's Grove and the Shadow Druid that kills another druid in a random area in BGEE. All this considered it would be what... 10 types of creatures? Less?

    Wizards would be more complicated indeed, but it's not like it would be as troublesome as FPC to NWN or a seventh party member for BG(2)EE.
    Timbo0o0o0
  • RadonGOGRadonGOG Member Posts: 17
    I´m quite surprised that the post dealing with the latest stream still isn´t up...
  • DoubledimasDoubledimas Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 1,286
    RadonGOG said:

    I´m quite surprised that the post dealing with the latest stream still isn´t up...

    Julius is on holiday so it will take a bit longer for a recap to appear.
    JuliusBorisovRadonGOG
  • RadonGOGRadonGOG Member Posts: 17

    RadonGOG said:

    I´m quite surprised that the post dealing with the latest stream still isn´t up...

    Julius is on holiday so it will take a bit longer for a recap to appear.
    Thanks for the info. On top of that it just appeared!
    GreenWarlock
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