The Fight Thief character is one I have played many times in BG1, BG2, and TOB. This is usually my main choice. I have made the Human 13/xx Dual class Kensai/Thief, the 2x/2x Kensai/Thief and the Multiclass Fighter/Thief. I recomend Multiclass either Half Orc or Dwarf. I did Dwarf last time and am trying Half orc this time. The Dwarf gets a lot of saving throws which come in handy, I think I can get 24 natural STR with the half orc though. Bu hes already getting held a lot. I hate waiting for the old class to kick back in with Dual class. In a party, you end up playing msot of the game with a gimped character.
Get Dual Weild and scimitars for the best weapons in BG1, and Very good weapons in BG2/TOB. I personally also took Flails for FOA (no backstab but its the best weapon IMO, with Defended of easthaven in offhand. Both with Jan Jansons Armour and Hardiness will make you take little damage. You can also get Axes, Katana, Landsword. It doesnt matter you will hit with your low THACO (-10 or lower) even if you dont have any proficience in it, you just loose the extra attacks and a little damage.
For highest backstabs, there is a cleric/thief or mage/thief multiclass with some cheese you can do to get like 1k-2K backstabs. Turn into a Golem and use his fists I think. As its beeen pointed out, most tough creatures in BG2/TOB you cant backstab anyways.
My setup for Solo:
BG1 Drizzt Armour and both weapons, boots of speed, Baldron Helmet and Cloak, Expertise Gauntlets, Greenstone Amulet (so i dont get charmed). +3 Missle defense Belt (from Ogre). Fire Resist Ring, and I think I used to wear +1/+2 rings, but cant with the +4 ChainMail in BG:EE. Free Action Ring doesnt work eith with the boots. Doesnt really matter on the rest, Most everything dies in 1-3 hits. I dont bother with poision.
BG2/TOB Valygar Armour/Jan Janson's Armour. FOA/DOE or Scimatar/anything in offhand for extra attacks. Doesnt matter you can use any weapon really. Go for ones with good extra abilities like Celestial Furys Stun is awesome in BG2 but not as great in TOB. anything to increases damage/reduce my damage and I like to get at least +4 saving throws. Boots of speed. Helm of Baldron. Cloak Non-detection is a must IMO for mages to not se you.
quick question since it fits with the OP original question and some of the responses. I was wondering about doing one with a single weapon and a buckler? (Yes I understand about the quaterstaff giving great back stabs but it just feels wrong to me in an rp sense to stab with a quaterstaff ). The question is does the buckler effect at all the change to crit like an offhand weapon would? if not would points in sword and shield be effective as opposed to single weapon? From what i can tell i could still use darts or throwign knives for range in a pinch.
If I use a multi-class thief/fighter, I can only go up to 2 points in any proficiency right?
Yes but thats all you need really. You do it for the extra attack. Not the damage. Unless you want to play with Granmastery Mod I think its called, then you get an extra 1/2 attack at 5 points. But you cant get more then 2 points in a multiclass.
Another advantage of Multiclass is lots of HLA (high level abilities) Dual class you get a lot less.
I cant stress this enough.
The multiclass is the same char the wholeway through. Where the DualClass is a fighter only in BG1 and part of BG2, Then a crappy thief for half of BG2. Then finally later after you have played for days. You get the character you wanted all along. Take Multiclass. its a lot more Fun.
quick question since it fits with the OP original question and some of the responses. I was wondering about doing one with a single weapon and a buckler? (Yes I understand about the quaterstaff giving great back stabs but it just feels wrong to me in an rp sense to stab with a quaterstaff ). The question is does the buckler effect at all the change to crit like an offhand weapon would? if not would points in sword and shield be effective as opposed to single weapon? From what i can tell i could still use darts or throwign knives for range in a pinch.
The only reason to use a shield is for extra defense via Armour Class and what ever other abilities the shield may have. In return you dont attack as fast. I personally found a second weapon to be better unless it was my main tank. Then he but defense first and damage last. Every bit of defense he could get.
RP sense tells me to dual weild. Sword and shield proficiency gets bonus to missle attacks. Neither affects chance to crit. You need 2 handed Proficiecy to crit on a roll of 19, so staffs if you go that route would be the best IMO
Single weapon style requires you off-hand to be empty. Sword/Shield is the only style that works with a shield/buckler equipped, but it's a POS as AC is largely pointless in the long run. Especially for a backstabber (much like a properly played Kensai, you should be killing enemies before they can hit you).
Scimitars are a decent choice if you can acquire one of Drizzt's (still haven't learned the new items by heart yet, so their may be some decent other options), and Belm makes an excellent early game scimitar in the sequel for dealing with trash not worth the effort of stabbing (3 attacks total with the build below) or stuff immune to backstab without sacrificing the extra crit (later to be replaced by Scarlet Ninja-to for it's higher to hit/damage bonus, +1 attack (like belm) and poison on hit, awesome for mooks, but can't backstab), while staves will become your backstab weapon of choice (the staff of the ram blows away all the competition, even the staff of striking, and once upgraded is even more ridiculously OP).
** scimitar, ** Quarterstaff, * two-handed style (+5% crit 2-handed, -2 weapon speed), * single weapon style (+5% crit, +1 ac) . Easily do-able in BG1 if you plan to dual at 7, or as a F/T multi.
Hmm, if I build a half-orc fighter/thief multiclass and have 19 con, how much bonus HP do I get per level? Half of my class can benefit from being above 16 con, while the other half can;t.
Hmm, if I build a half-orc fighter/thief multiclass and have 19 con, how much bonus HP do I get per level? Half of my class can benefit from being above 16 con, while the other half can;t.
Get 19 to start. Do it for the Regeration to your life while you switch areas so you dont have to rest/gethealed up. At 20 Con or higher you regen really quick. Plus ( i have to look at the chart) the fighter can get like +6 bonus to life per level if his Con is high enough.
without looking at the chart, the hitpoints work like this.
only fighter types benefit with more then 16 con for hitpoints
fighter with 18 con gets (10 for fighter class plus bonus of 4) so 14 total per level thief with 16 con gets ( 8 for thief plus bonus of 2) so 10 total per level
Then you get half of each since you multiclass. so level 1 fighter thief gets 7+5=12. He will get 7 each time he levels up fighter and 5 each time he levels up thief. So correct only the fighter class gets the benefit from over 16 con as far as hitpoints go. When you get to higher levels with each you only get like 3 points per level or something like that. I forget when and the exact penalty. Thnk it starts at level 12 or something.
I do believe you get no hit point increeases if you Dual class til you old class is active again. In return you should get more points then a multiclass, but not by much. maybe 200 life vs 180 life when its all said and done
I did not know that with a buckler I would attack slower that is very useful information. Ingame i have not seen a buckler effect imoen however so far she is only equiped with a weapon with an attack of 1 so having a buckler has no effect on her while i have noticed a increase in her THACO while having and offhanded equip. Additionally, it is my understanding that an offhand reduces my chance to crit with my main hand However i would guess this could be offset but whatever bonus the offhand weapon would bestow?
I did not know that with a buckler I would attack slower that is very useful information. It is my understanding that with an offhand it reduces my chance to crit with my main hand However i would guess this could be offset but whatever bonus the offhand weapon would bestow?
You crit on a roll of 20. Yo uare rolling a 20 sided dice, so 1 in 20 chance to crit. The only other thing to affect this is taking single weapon style or 2 weapon style where you also crit on a roll of 19. So 1 in 10 chance to crit. What its you wear have nothing to do with you crits. The dual weild gives 1 extra attack pre round. which is 6 seconds I beleive. So 2 attacks is 2 attacks in 6 seconds, where dual weild would give 3.
In BG2/TOB you can get 5 attacks per round natural I believe. 3 from fighter class. 1 from offhand. 1/2 from gauntlets and another 1/2 from 2 stars in your weapon proficiency.
I did not know that with a buckler I would attack slower that is very useful information. It is my understanding that with an offhand it reduces my chance to crit with my main hand However i would guess this could be offset but whatever bonus the offhand weapon would bestow?
You crit on a roll of 20. Yo uare rolling a 20 sided dice, so 1 in 20 chance to crit. The only other thing to affect this is taking single weapon style or 2 weapon style where you also crit on a roll of 19. So 1 in 10 chance to crit. What its you wear have nothing to do with you crits. The dual weild gives 1 extra attack pre round. which is 6 seconds I beleive. So 2 attacks is 2 attacks in 6 seconds, where dual weild would give 3.
In BG2/TOB you can get 5 attacks per round natural I believe. 3 from fighter class. 1 from offhand. 1/2 from gauntlets and another 1/2 from 2 stars in your weapon proficiency.
Ty very helpful the right information i was looking for. So the offhand would just effect the thaco which can be reduced by putting points into dual wield. I appreciate the information. Always have loved the BG community as opposed to many MMO ones.
I mean to say 2 handed weapon style would crit on a roll of 19. 2 weapon style would not. It only reduces the penalties for your THACO (ability to land a hit), but gives 1 extra attack per round. I usually use the shields on my clerics or tanks. Any class i can put 3 points in Dual weild, I Dual Weild (except a Paladin which i always go 2Handed). Ranged weapons are great for BG 1, overpowered IMO. but get downgraded a lot in BG2/TOB.
Check out the Stalker Kit also. Hes under the Ranger Class, gets a lower backstab then thieves but starts with 2 free points in dual weild and can hide in shadows to backstab.
Dont dual weild Imoen, she cant get more then 1 point in a weapon proficiency. So she will take a huge penalty to hit. Best you can do is have her go single weapon style. Personnaly she does better with a short bow for 99% of the game, maybe have her try and backstab a mage whos life is low with the poision dagger.
Dont dual weild Imoen, she cant get more then 1 point in a weapon proficiency. So she will take a huge penalty to hit. Best you can do is have her go single weapon style. Personnaly she does better with a short bow for 99% of the game, maybe have her try and backstab a mage whos life is low with the poision dagger.
Yes I was not planning on DW with her. I was just equiping different daggers, SS, bucklers and such to see how it effected her BS and her THACO. Been using her with a Short bow. I am playing through with an Archer at the moment and was planning on a Thief or a Druid next game.
So if I'm a level 13 Kensai, about how long would it take for me to get to level 14 Thief?
Less time then it took you to get to 13 in Kensai, thieves level quicker, and duel-classing is just like level from 1 over again except that you still have your HP from before you dueled. You wont reach Kensai 13 in BG1, i think you will hit xp cap at level 9? 10 if you import into blackpits.
Don't dual-wield anyway. IF you attack at all in melee with her, BS..that extra +4 to hit from being stealthed makes A LOT of difference to a thief. And even with no str enhancing spells/potions/items she can still get some respectable damages at x3-4 BS with a decent weapon. (though as with any thief, quaff a giants str potion of some sort and she can rip an enemy a new one)
Bucklers are useless...their AC does NOT apply to ranged attacks, only melee, so * in single weapon is superior as the +1 AC from it applies vs all attacks AND doubles your crit chance. 2 ** however is a waste since it's merely another +1 ac...not worth it.
The only buckler in the game that's sort of useful is the one that gives +1 con since it allows non-half orc/Dwarves to potentially get natural regen (requires 19+ con after tome). Toss it on before rest attempts or transitions to full heal, then remove before attempting to kill.
Otherwise just stick with a short bow if it's too much micro...2 base attack per round is more then she'll ever get naturally and it's less to have to death with. And her high dex gives her ranged attacks a +2 advantage over her melee attacks (unless buffed).
Generally, go with a weapon with the highest minimum damage..if all things are equal, go with the highest maximum since it'll average slightly more damaging backstabs as the game goes on. Weapon speed only matters if the weapon you're using is REALLY slow...anything 3 (0 ideally, but..don't gimp minimum for speed) or under is perfectly fine.
The dagger of venom is pretty nice, though, despite low max damage. It traps the enemies in hit reactions for several rounds (or more if they fail the save) making it easier to escape and re-hide. Fairly pricy though.
Err..no..an Assassin takes until 16+ before they even begin to compete to a 9 dual'ed F/T...and even then, they're horribly gimp'd against things that can't be backstabbed. A multi-F/T is broken beyond belief. They get everything the assassin does sans the extra x2 BS, + all the fighter HLA, and actually get about 7 more HLA picks then an assassin would for the same xp. They can also manage 4 more attacks under improved haste (which gives them the equivalent of 14 more overall attacks total, COUNTING the extra x2 the assassin gets), which makes them ironically superior to an assassin during assassination.
And 100 Detect illusion by itself makes a dualed or multi F/T superior to a straight fighter. The rest just makes their victory more complete.
Hmm, if I build a half-orc fighter/thief multiclass and have 19 con, how much bonus HP do I get per level? Half of my class can benefit from being above 16 con, while the other half can;t.
As far as I can tell, if one of your classes is Fighter, then all of your classes in a multiclass benefit from the higher HP bonus. My Half-Orc Fighter/Cleric with a 19 CON started out with 14 hit points. If I only got a +2 on the Cleric side from CON, that would have only been a 13.
Don't multi-class characters get the average of the two classes? So with a 18 constitution: fighter = 10+4 and thief = 6+2. Divide that by 2 = 11 max HP's per level?
Don't multi-class characters get the average of the two classes? So with a 18 constitution: fighter = 10+4 and thief = 6+2. Divide that by 2 = 11 max HP's per level?
I just created a half-orc F/T multi to test. Gave her 19 con. She starts only with 13 hp (and shows +5 HP/Level on the Record screen for some reason). So, math time.
Fighter1 HP with 19 con = 15 (+6 HP/Lv) Thief1 HP with 19 con = 8 (+2 HP/Lv) In theory, level 1 HP for a F/T should = Average (Fighter1 HP + Thief1 HP) (15+8)/2 = 11.5
Hmm...doesn't quite work out.
Alright, let's try amending the thief hp a bit. Thief1 HP assuming the Thief side benefits from >16 Con = 6+5 = 11 (15+11)/2 = 13
Hmm...it looks like the Thief side *does* benefit from more than 16 Con.
That said, anyone know how I can use cheats to give myself exp so I can test leveling up?
I don't know a way to insta gain EXP, but doing the black pits is fairly quick an gets you fast xp. I did the whole thing with a party of 4 in an hour and almost hit max level with all.
As for weapons, for BG1 I suggest scimitars as there are so many good ones with EE. In bg2, katanas and long swords are fairly brutal.
Assassins seem wasteful in bg1, as their backstabbing isn't useful until much later and you can't max out thief skills as early. Bounty hunter dualed to fighter (or fighter kit dualed to thief) seem the most fun to me.
In BG2 use any item HLA is great. You can use scrolls and to buff yourself or whatever and just use any item regardless of class or other artificial constraints like must be evil although you won't be able to use stuff that has minimum stat requirements unless you meet those requirements (not many items fall into this category). I'd highly recommend you have an active thief class at the point you can start picking HLAs.
So multiclass or fighter dualed to thief (if you are willing to lose the fighter HLAs like greater whirlwind in exchange for a couple berserker rages or other kit features)
I just created a half-orc F/T multi to test. Gave her 19 con. She starts only with 13 hp (and shows +5 HP/Level on the Record screen for some reason). So, math time.
Fighter1 HP with 19 con = 15 (+6 HP/Lv) Thief1 HP with 19 con = 8 (+2 HP/Lv) In theory, level 1 HP for a F/T should = Average (Fighter1 HP + Thief1 HP) (15+8)/2 = 11.5
Hmm...doesn't quite work out.
Alright, let's try amending the thief hp a bit. Thief1 HP assuming the Thief side benefits from >16 Con = 6+5 = 11 (15+11)/2 = 13
Hmm...it looks like the Thief side *does* benefit from more than 16 Con.
That said, anyone know how I can use cheats to give myself exp so I can test leveling up?
CLUAConsole:SetCurrentXP("XXXXXXXXX") whatever value you put in place of the x's is the amount of Xp the character will have ex CLUAConsole:SetCurrentXP("10000") would mean the character would have 10k xp if you wanted to try a higher lvl say 30k you just set it to 30k. It does not add the xp to what the character has it sets it to the number you use.
So if I'm a level 13 Kensai, about how long would it take for me to get to level 14 Thief?
Well the trick is to leave most boxes closed before you start dual classing. Then you temporarily go solo and start lock picking all over Baldur's Gate and your character will get a large XP boost.
Comments
Get Dual Weild and scimitars for the best weapons in BG1, and Very good weapons in BG2/TOB. I personally also took Flails for FOA (no backstab but its the best weapon IMO, with Defended of easthaven in offhand. Both with Jan Jansons Armour and Hardiness will make you take little damage. You can also get Axes, Katana, Landsword. It doesnt matter you will hit with your low THACO (-10 or lower) even if you dont have any proficience in it, you just loose the extra attacks and a little damage.
For highest backstabs, there is a cleric/thief or mage/thief multiclass with some cheese you can do to get like 1k-2K backstabs. Turn into a Golem and use his fists I think. As its beeen pointed out, most tough creatures in BG2/TOB you cant backstab anyways.
My setup for Solo:
BG1
Drizzt Armour and both weapons, boots of speed, Baldron Helmet and Cloak, Expertise Gauntlets, Greenstone Amulet (so i dont get charmed). +3 Missle defense Belt (from Ogre). Fire Resist Ring, and I think I used to wear +1/+2 rings, but cant with the +4 ChainMail in BG:EE. Free Action Ring doesnt work eith with the boots. Doesnt really matter on the rest, Most everything dies in 1-3 hits. I dont bother with poision.
BG2/TOB
Valygar Armour/Jan Janson's Armour. FOA/DOE or Scimatar/anything in offhand for extra attacks. Doesnt matter you can use any weapon really. Go for ones with good extra abilities like Celestial Furys Stun is awesome in BG2 but not as great in TOB. anything to increases damage/reduce my damage and I like to get at least +4 saving throws. Boots of speed. Helm of Baldron. Cloak Non-detection is a must IMO for mages to not se you.
Right.
Another advantage of Multiclass is lots of HLA (high level abilities) Dual class you get a lot less.
I cant stress this enough.
The multiclass is the same char the wholeway through. Where the DualClass is a fighter only in BG1 and part of BG2, Then a crappy thief for half of BG2. Then finally later after you have played for days. You get the character you wanted all along. Take Multiclass. its a lot more Fun.
RP sense tells me to dual weild. Sword and shield proficiency gets bonus to missle attacks. Neither affects chance to crit. You need 2 handed Proficiecy to crit on a roll of 19, so staffs if you go that route would be the best IMO
Scimitars are a decent choice if you can acquire one of Drizzt's (still haven't learned the new items by heart yet, so their may be some decent other options), and Belm makes an excellent early game scimitar in the sequel for dealing with trash not worth the effort of stabbing (3 attacks total with the build below) or stuff immune to backstab without sacrificing the extra crit (later to be replaced by Scarlet Ninja-to for it's higher to hit/damage bonus, +1 attack (like belm) and poison on hit, awesome for mooks, but can't backstab), while staves will become your backstab weapon of choice (the staff of the ram blows away all the competition, even the staff of striking, and once upgraded is even more ridiculously OP).
** scimitar, ** Quarterstaff, * two-handed style (+5% crit 2-handed, -2 weapon speed), * single weapon style (+5% crit, +1 ac) . Easily do-able in BG1 if you plan to dual at 7, or as a F/T multi.
without looking at the chart, the hitpoints work like this.
only fighter types benefit with more then 16 con for hitpoints
fighter with 18 con gets (10 for fighter class plus bonus of 4) so 14 total per level
thief with 16 con gets ( 8 for thief plus bonus of 2) so 10 total per level
Then you get half of each since you multiclass. so level 1 fighter thief gets 7+5=12. He will get 7 each time he levels up fighter and 5 each time he levels up thief. So correct only the fighter class gets the benefit from over 16 con as far as hitpoints go. When you get to higher levels with each you only get like 3 points per level or something like that. I forget when and the exact penalty. Thnk it starts at level 12 or something.
I do believe you get no hit point increeases if you Dual class til you old class is active again. In return you should get more points then a multiclass, but not by much. maybe 200 life vs 180 life when its all said and done
I did not know that with a buckler I would attack slower that is very useful information. Ingame i have not seen a buckler effect imoen however so far she is only equiped with a weapon with an attack of 1 so having a buckler has no effect on her while i have noticed a increase in her THACO while having and offhanded equip. Additionally, it is my understanding that an offhand reduces my chance to crit with my main hand However i would guess this could be offset but whatever bonus the offhand weapon would bestow?
In BG2/TOB you can get 5 attacks per round natural I believe. 3 from fighter class. 1 from offhand. 1/2 from gauntlets and another 1/2 from 2 stars in your weapon proficiency.
You wont reach Kensai 13 in BG1, i think you will hit xp cap at level 9?
10 if you import into blackpits.
Bucklers are useless...their AC does NOT apply to ranged attacks, only melee, so * in single weapon is superior as the +1 AC from it applies vs all attacks AND doubles your crit chance. 2 ** however is a waste since it's merely another +1 ac...not worth it.
The only buckler in the game that's sort of useful is the one that gives +1 con since it allows non-half orc/Dwarves to potentially get natural regen (requires 19+ con after tome). Toss it on before rest attempts or transitions to full heal, then remove before attempting to kill.
Otherwise just stick with a short bow if it's too much micro...2 base attack per round is more then she'll ever get naturally and it's less to have to death with. And her high dex gives her ranged attacks a +2 advantage over her melee attacks (unless buffed).
Generally, go with a weapon with the highest minimum damage..if all things are equal, go with the highest maximum since it'll average slightly more damaging backstabs as the game goes on. Weapon speed only matters if the weapon you're using is REALLY slow...anything 3 (0 ideally, but..don't gimp minimum for speed) or under is perfectly fine.
The dagger of venom is pretty nice, though, despite low max damage. It traps the enemies in hit reactions for several rounds (or more if they fail the save) making it easier to escape and re-hide. Fairly pricy though.
Err..no..an Assassin takes until 16+ before they even begin to compete to a 9 dual'ed F/T...and even then, they're horribly gimp'd against things that can't be backstabbed. A multi-F/T is broken beyond belief. They get everything the assassin does sans the extra x2 BS, + all the fighter HLA, and actually get about 7 more HLA picks then an assassin would for the same xp. They can also manage 4 more attacks under improved haste (which gives them the equivalent of 14 more overall attacks total, COUNTING the extra x2 the assassin gets), which makes them ironically superior to an assassin during assassination.
And 100 Detect illusion by itself makes a dualed or multi F/T superior to a straight fighter. The rest just makes their victory more complete.
Fighter1 HP with 19 con = 15 (+6 HP/Lv)
Thief1 HP with 19 con = 8 (+2 HP/Lv)
In theory, level 1 HP for a F/T should = Average (Fighter1 HP + Thief1 HP)
(15+8)/2 = 11.5
Hmm...doesn't quite work out.
Alright, let's try amending the thief hp a bit.
Thief1 HP assuming the Thief side benefits from >16 Con = 6+5 = 11
(15+11)/2 = 13
Hmm...it looks like the Thief side *does* benefit from more than 16 Con.
That said, anyone know how I can use cheats to give myself exp so I can test leveling up?
As for weapons, for BG1 I suggest scimitars as there are so many good ones with EE. In bg2, katanas and long swords are fairly brutal.
Assassins seem wasteful in bg1, as their backstabbing isn't useful until much later and you can't max out thief skills as early. Bounty hunter dualed to fighter (or fighter kit dualed to thief) seem the most fun to me.
In BG2 use any item HLA is great. You can use scrolls and to buff yourself or whatever and just use any item regardless of class or other artificial constraints like must be evil although you won't be able to use stuff that has minimum stat requirements unless you meet those requirements (not many items fall into this category). I'd highly recommend you have an active thief class at the point you can start picking HLAs.
So multiclass or fighter dualed to thief (if you are willing to lose the fighter HLAs like greater whirlwind in exchange for a couple berserker rages or other kit features)
CLUAConsole:SetCurrentXP("XXXXXXXXX") whatever value you put in place of the x's is the amount of Xp the character will have ex CLUAConsole:SetCurrentXP("10000") would mean the character would have 10k xp if you wanted to try a higher lvl say 30k you just set it to 30k. It does not add the xp to what the character has it sets it to the number you use.