Yup. I don't give much of a shit about stats, but apparently, my choice in party is questionable? ...Some of my friends prefer the more technical side of things. I have had them watch me before. They just take one look at my party, frown, and shake their heads.
Some of my favorites to hang out with are Imoen, Alora, Xan, Quayle, and Garrick. Is there something wrong with that?
Well, didn't you say something about not beating BG1 before? I think I can see why now :P
@Mechalibur Actually, I didn't beat BG1 because I totes have Chronic Restarting Syndrome :P I get to a certain point and I am doing pretty well but then I think "well what would it be like if I used a charname like THIS?" or "I wonder what it would be like to actually have this one NPC on the party, but my charname would never go along with that" and then suddenly new game. . -c . The one time I actually got really far and got close to beating the game without having one of these thoughts, my dad was screwing around on the computer and deleted the file by accident. I was devastated.
I totes beat BG2, though. Hangin' out with folks like Cernd, Nalia, Haer'Dalis, Imoen...and Xan, with the help of Kulyok's mod . ...My friends shook their heads when they saw that party too. But I think they were mostly doing that because of Cernd.
I like these posts in here because they do show aspects of why/how people choose to look at the game. I'm pretty much the guy also that just rolls the dice a few times and then just sticks whatever comes to him.
I do have to admit that the NPCs in Baldur's Gate aren't always that special. I mean they truly do only have a few lines compared to what we're used to in newer games that make companions sort of the highlight. However...I sort of fill the story out in my head. I mean I know that's not for everyone. But whenever something incredible happens in the game, I like to picture the characters getting angry or frustrated about it. Envious maybe. Cheering other characters on. Or you know...just being so dismal and utterly depressing that really...no one likes that guy. Gee I wonder who that is.
Numbers give perspective. They help us to interpret how things work. They give order to the chaos in our minds. But I like letting my brain drift off into chaos while I'm playing. Ultimately it's not about killing. That one guy that posted in here mentioned how it gets boring when you are an Übermensch. I kinda agree with him.
But I also did kind of envy all you guys that understand the core mechanics of the game and have it down to a science. I wish I could figure that stuff out...heck I really could have used that sense in NwN and NwN 2 when I played various multiplayer modules. Haha. But that's okay. I've forgotten a lot of what happened in Baldur's Gate in 1998. So as I play through here, I go through the story. It sometimes feels a bit generic, but compared to a lot of the fantasy rpgs that have come out since...that doesn't say much for progress. It stands out as great to me.
And I hope we can all continue playing these games in our different ways and find games that cater to both. I do feel bad that the one person's dad deleted her saved game though. I like to have weirdo characters in my party too. That way it's more fun to just blame each other for being terrible.
Like Rasaad...what is up with that guy? I'm running out of in-character excuses for why he dies all the time. I mean seriously, man, you're supposed to be literally buttkicking evil here. Instead you're just evil's mop for wiping the floor of bloody justice.
I like to rp my stats in a way they make sense...I never raise my Str and Con pass 16 with my Thief...but he "needs" to have 18 Dex and Cha I mean that is his job :P I also never have a stat under 10 unless i can justify it with rp aka my 8 wisdom since my guy is kinda smart but not to wise and take risk just for lol and giggle..he is also the eternal trickster
I have to admit I'm a stat slave. That being said, I also roleplay. For example, my current Berserker is going to dual to druid at level 13, certainly sub optimal. I just thought it might be fun. His party is currently perfectly balanced in terms of alignment, with yeslick, Shar-teel, Dorn and Imoen.
Good characters run with only good and Neutral NPCs, and I don't steal ANYTHING when I play as a paladin, not even Algernon's Cloak or the other excellent item one can "borrow." I don't even buy the "My PC is unaware of what the party thief is up to."
People complain that good is much easier to play than evil, but that isn't the case if you roleplay your alignment. A chaotic good thief wouldn't break into relatively poor people's homes and rob them blind.
So I guess I'm pretty extreme in both cases, which hopefully balances me in the middle .
...haha, but seriously, thanks for the sympathy. Hopefully since I am now living in a dorm with my own computer and all, I will not have any more deleted savegames.
I was playing tabletop D&D long before Baldur's Gate was first released, so I was already quite knowledgable about the mechanics of the game. I don't really remember my first play through, but in most RPG games I play, finishing the story is paramount. After I have completed the game once, I will generally start tinkering with it. I am an actor, so I tend to enjoy approaching similar situations from a variety of perspectives and exploring a character's motivation and reactions. I am also an INTP personality, so I absolutely love analyzing the game and experimenting with different character builds or party combinations.
In short, if I want pure role playing, I can do that on stage. If I want pure story, I can read a book or watch a movie. If I want pure mechanical optimization and complex analysis, I will build a Magic: the Gathering deck. What makes games like Baldur's Gate unique is they can satisfy all of those needs simultaneously.
I CTRL+8 my stats then arrange them in a fashion that would make sense to my character since I always play through from a roleplaying standpoint.
So to answer, yes and no. I give a character the stats I believe they should actually have as a person, but I don't give enough of a crap to roll for it.
Eh, as long as my character can do its job, I'm happy.
The character I beat the game with was a half-elven Fighter/Magic-User with Strength 15/Intelligence 16/Wisdom 13/Dexterity 17/Constitution 14/Charisma 15 ...at least around Durlag's Tower. She did her job just fine, although to be honest most of it was "AoE, AoE, rain poisoned projectiles on them, throw a drugged-up Shar-Teel at them, hey look CHARNAME is coughing up magic missiles...".
I CTRL+8 my stats then arrange them in a fashion that would make sense to my character since I always play through from a roleplaying standpoint.
So to answer, yes and no. I give a character the stats I believe they should actually have as a person, but I don't give enough of a crap to roll for it.
Pretty much exactly what I do, but I use Shadowkeeper instead to give them somewhat reasonable stats. All 18s are pretty OP, 25s are even worse....not that I would know about that of course *shifty eyes*
I follow some rules in order not to feel like a powergamer and to aid immersion
- don't reroll more than ~20 times + don't subtract more than one point + don't add more than 3 points to a single stat during character creation (if i'm really unhappy with the result i do it again but force myself to choose a different class) - don't ever ever hoard (even in the beginning - lugging dozens of armors, two-handed swords and composite bows is stupid) - don't "tome up" the PC; give some tomes to followers who need them (and most do) - don't give good responses if you're an evil character & vice versa (unless it can be explained as an underhand method) - don't spend too much time in the wilderness and dungeons (~ten days in a single excursion, for example to cloakwood), and try to finish the game in ~100 days (totally arbitrary) - don't be happy when the ettercap + web trap random encounter doesn't trigger after reloading (after you've died obviously) because that's cheating. you have to be sad.
Sorry to spoil the mood, but I feel it quite pointless to "roleplay" ALONE behind my computer.
Though it does not change the fact that, indeed, the best stats everywhere are not required to beat the game (it's just faster and easier).
What is the point of creating ALONE his character and try to develop his motives ALONE on our computer ?
The only place where ROLEPLAY can really shine, is when you share your thoughts, humor, way of thinking your characters with OTHER LIVING PEOPLE around a table (you can make them laugh, cry, become angry or sad, ...) .
The computer does not gives a shit to the fact that you're trying to roleplay your characters.
This is indeed amusing when the options are given to you (KOTOR2, Planescape Torment), but trying to self impose yourself things that other LIVING PEOPLE will not share with you is quite ... uh ... pointless ?
"Oh yeah I will try to pretend Safana is my wife because she calls me "dear" and I'll imaginary grow a romance with her even if there is no romance dialogue - nor character depth - in this game."
@Aasimar069 Yeah, it's going to be a richer experience, no doubt, to share with other people. Via tabletop PnP or a multiplayer video game.
But I would not invalidate the role of imagination and creativity in the SP experience. I think there is a sweet spot to be found between the mechanics of the game engine and an overall conceptual approach to the game in imagination.
"Roleplaying" in the context of a singleplayer computer game most often takes the form of playing the Player-Character according to a concept that one envisions for the character. And it might then also involve development of a more detailed backstory, with some creative adjustments to CHARNAME's motivations.
The roleplaying approach could also be organized around assembling a particular party, and perhaps for a particular purpose, above and beyond the game's plot imperatives.
Creation of a multiplayer party of multiple PCs according to a concept is another example. A party consisting of specialist mages, or just thieves, for instance.
Playing the game strictly according to alignment (and the player's own vision of it) would also be included here. For example, playing "evil."
A game for the purpose of exclusively using a particular combat approach can fall into the "roleplaying" realm, if one imagines a motivation for characters doing so. Eg, one might elect to use ranged weapons only, or conversely only melee weapons. Similarly, a magic-only or no-magic approach.
These are just some examples, but hopefully they get the main idea across.
Stats are everything. Roleplaying does not imply disregarding the stats.
Stats are not everything.
Lets imagine you are roleplaying a paladin like, good aligned character, and you quickly find party member to aid your cause. You travel with them for ages, and later on you find slightly more powerful ally you know nothing of. If you take him/her to your party and kick out the weaker who has aided your travels so far, I think that doesn't cover staying true to the alignment anymore, and hence the roleplaying argument is out.
I think playing a role actually makes you think what the character should be good at and what not. Sure any character can have funky combinations, but it's very hard to justify max in every stat that matters.
For me the game has evolved from needing very good stats and party members to complete the game, to taking lesser stats, taking suboptimal NPC's to the party, taking actions based on aligment and stats. It's fun to try different things and see if you can still succeed.
Story over stats. But since CHARNAME is supposed to be the child of a god, I always felt it was appropriate to have high stats. Maybe not max, but close. So i edit my character with shadowkeeper, although i do take care not to go over the top (i am sure i've never given a mage more than 16 Str and Con, or a Cleric more than 14 Dex). It just makes sense to me from a role playing point of view. Min/maxing for opimum tactical advantage does not.
Because of how many times I've destroyed this game with every class, solo or otherwise, these days, I draw lots to determine class, then shut my eyes roll 5 times for stats and work with what it gives me. In the long run stats actually don't matter all that much.
I play with the NPC project, so the characters get a lot more banter, and you get to know personalities better. I rarely even check an NPCs stats, perhaps only to see what weapon they are proficient in. I'm more about who would be interesting in the party, not the best from a power gaming standpoint, but I have never had a problem finishing the game because my party was too weak.
When i played BG2 i always played on personal preference.
I picked based on portraits, ability to wield certain items (keldorn for that badass sword), and npc interaction (kicked out that elf dude who was flirting with Aerie pretty fast).
Ability is obviously important (Vic for very powerful priest spells, same for Edwin and sorcery) but in the end i didn't really min/max my party and ended up having alot of trouble so just i could play with my favorites
I also didn't understand the rules back then, so i'm pretty sure i dropped some armors when i saw minus on the armor stats... I didn't use shields at all (dual-wield and 2h looked way cooler) and i never followed a full guide to complete all the quests (never finished the skinner quest) so i always found out something different on every playthrough
Good times! Sometimes i wonder how i finished the game... i guess i was very persistent
I'm dead inside and have no imagination. Rollplay instead of roleplay for me. I find it very hard to relate to a few lines of dialogue and collections of pixels.
I do both in the BG series given you're a Bhaalspawn. Not so much in games like Icewind Dale when party dynamics are more important. My current character rolled crazy stats and with 2 tomes now is running 19 19 19 13 15 14
Half-orc barb, overpowered....most definitely! Have a lot of fun though, and with the boots of speed, I'm sprinting around wielding two handed death by the loads, let the gods sort it all out.
Dorn never knew what hit him when I had to dispatch his evil self after he refused to see the light. Guess he was right about not trusting anyone. Well, at least a true neutral half orc barb bhaalspawn.
So to sum up, overpowered stats seem okay in BG series given your unique situation from a role playing pov.
@Vonbek777 It's a good example you show there and it goes to show that stats are roleplaying material too. One can ignore them as the OP suggests, or use them as a basis for roleplaying.
What most of us like is to have control over what character to roleplay. Ignoring stats is losing that control. It's the same as saying "let's roll the dice and see what I will be today". That doesn't work for me. So stats, high or low are important. I may want to play an overpowered character, a gimp or a mundane person. What I don't want is to let a pseudo-random number generator dictate who I will be.
Stats are everything. Roleplaying does not imply disregarding the stats.
Stats are not everything.
Lets imagine you are roleplaying a paladin like, good aligned character, and you quickly find party member to aid your cause. You travel with them for ages, and later on you find slightly more powerful ally you know nothing of. If you take him/her to your party and kick out the weaker who has aided your travels so far, I think that doesn't cover staying true to the alignment anymore, and hence the roleplaying argument is out.
I think playing a role actually makes you think what the character should be good at and what not. Sure any character can have funky combinations, but it's very hard to justify max in every stat that matters.
For me the game has evolved from needing very good stats and party members to complete the game, to taking lesser stats, taking suboptimal NPC's to the party, taking actions based on aligment and stats. It's fun to try different things and see if you can still succeed.
When I play with my Pally, I do not choose evil character (neither took edwin or Kagain during this playhrough).
Edwin is the best mage, but beyond this I always refused to take him when I can avoid it. A dualed Imoen thief/conjurer was very nice in Vanilla BG. Due to the laziness of the devs, it is no longer feasible in this so called "EE".
Comments
Once I'm done I'm ready for my bad guy story
Actually, I didn't beat BG1 because I totes have Chronic Restarting Syndrome :P
I get to a certain point and I am doing pretty well but then I think
"well what would it be like if I used a charname like THIS?" or "I wonder what it would be like to actually have this one NPC on the party, but my charname would never go along with that" and then suddenly new game.
. -c .
The one time I actually got really far and got close to beating the game without having one of these thoughts, my dad was screwing around on the computer and deleted the file by accident. I was devastated.
I totes beat BG2, though. Hangin' out with folks like Cernd, Nalia, Haer'Dalis, Imoen...and Xan, with the help of Kulyok's mod
I do have to admit that the NPCs in Baldur's Gate aren't always that special. I mean they truly do only have a few lines compared to what we're used to in newer games that make companions sort of the highlight. However...I sort of fill the story out in my head. I mean I know that's not for everyone. But whenever something incredible happens in the game, I like to picture the characters getting angry or frustrated about it. Envious maybe. Cheering other characters on. Or you know...just being so dismal and utterly depressing that really...no one likes that guy. Gee I wonder who that is.
Numbers give perspective. They help us to interpret how things work. They give order to the chaos in our minds. But I like letting my brain drift off into chaos while I'm playing. Ultimately it's not about killing. That one guy that posted in here mentioned how it gets boring when you are an Übermensch. I kinda agree with him.
But I also did kind of envy all you guys that understand the core mechanics of the game and have it down to a science. I wish I could figure that stuff out...heck I really could have used that sense in NwN and NwN 2 when I played various multiplayer modules. Haha. But that's okay. I've forgotten a lot of what happened in Baldur's Gate in 1998. So as I play through here, I go through the story. It sometimes feels a bit generic, but compared to a lot of the fantasy rpgs that have come out since...that doesn't say much for progress. It stands out as great to me.
And I hope we can all continue playing these games in our different ways and find games that cater to both. I do feel bad that the one person's dad deleted her saved game though. I like to have weirdo characters in my party too. That way it's more fun to just blame each other for being terrible.
Like Rasaad...what is up with that guy? I'm running out of in-character excuses for why he dies all the time. I mean seriously, man, you're supposed to be literally buttkicking evil here. Instead you're just evil's mop for wiping the floor of bloody justice.
Good characters run with only good and Neutral NPCs, and I don't steal ANYTHING when I play as a paladin, not even Algernon's Cloak or the other excellent item one can "borrow." I don't even buy the "My PC is unaware of what the party thief is up to."
People complain that good is much easier to play than evil, but that isn't the case if you roleplay your alignment. A chaotic good thief wouldn't break into relatively poor people's homes and rob them blind.
So I guess I'm pretty extreme in both cases, which hopefully balances me in the middle
...haha, but seriously, thanks for the sympathy. Hopefully since I am now living in a dorm with my own computer and all, I will not have any more deleted savegames.
In short, if I want pure role playing, I can do that on stage. If I want pure story, I can read a book or watch a movie. If I want pure mechanical optimization and complex analysis, I will build a Magic: the Gathering deck. What makes games like Baldur's Gate unique is they can satisfy all of those needs simultaneously.
So to answer, yes and no. I give a character the stats I believe they should actually have as a person, but I don't give enough of a crap to roll for it.
The character I beat the game with was a half-elven Fighter/Magic-User with Strength 15/Intelligence 16/Wisdom 13/Dexterity 17/Constitution 14/Charisma 15 ...at least around Durlag's Tower. She did her job just fine, although to be honest most of it was "AoE, AoE, rain poisoned projectiles on them, throw a drugged-up Shar-Teel at them, hey look CHARNAME is coughing up magic missiles...".
- don't reroll more than ~20 times + don't subtract more than one point + don't add more than 3 points to a single stat during character creation (if i'm really unhappy with the result i do it again but force myself to choose a different class)
- don't ever ever hoard (even in the beginning - lugging dozens of armors, two-handed swords and composite bows is stupid)
- don't "tome up" the PC; give some tomes to followers who need them (and most do)
- don't give good responses if you're an evil character & vice versa (unless it can be explained as an underhand method)
- don't spend too much time in the wilderness and dungeons (~ten days in a single excursion, for example to cloakwood), and try to finish the game in ~100 days (totally arbitrary)
- don't be happy when the ettercap + web trap random encounter doesn't trigger after reloading (after you've died obviously) because that's cheating. you have to be sad.
Though it does not change the fact that, indeed, the best stats everywhere are not required to beat the game (it's just faster and easier).
What is the point of creating ALONE his character and try to develop his motives ALONE on our computer ?
The only place where ROLEPLAY can really shine, is when you share your thoughts, humor, way of thinking your characters with OTHER LIVING PEOPLE around a table (you can make them laugh, cry, become angry or sad, ...) .
The computer does not gives a shit to the fact that you're trying to roleplay your characters.
This is indeed amusing when the options are given to you (KOTOR2, Planescape Torment), but trying to self impose yourself things that other LIVING PEOPLE will not share with you is quite ... uh ... pointless ?
"Oh yeah I will try to pretend Safana is my wife because she calls me "dear" and I'll imaginary grow a romance with her even if there is no romance dialogue - nor character depth - in this game."
But I would not invalidate the role of imagination and creativity in the SP experience. I think there is a sweet spot to be found between the mechanics of the game engine and an overall conceptual approach to the game in imagination.
"Roleplaying" in the context of a singleplayer computer game most often takes the form of playing the Player-Character according to a concept that one envisions for the character. And it might then also involve development of a more detailed backstory, with some creative adjustments to CHARNAME's motivations.
The roleplaying approach could also be organized around assembling a particular party, and perhaps for a particular purpose, above and beyond the game's plot imperatives.
Creation of a multiplayer party of multiple PCs according to a concept is another example. A party consisting of specialist mages, or just thieves, for instance.
Playing the game strictly according to alignment (and the player's own vision of it) would also be included here. For example, playing "evil."
A game for the purpose of exclusively using a particular combat approach can fall into the "roleplaying" realm, if one imagines a motivation for characters doing so. Eg, one might elect to use ranged weapons only, or conversely only melee weapons. Similarly, a magic-only or no-magic approach.
These are just some examples, but hopefully they get the main idea across.
Lets imagine you are roleplaying a paladin like, good aligned character, and you quickly find party member to aid your cause. You travel with them for ages, and later on you find slightly more powerful ally you know nothing of. If you take him/her to your party and kick out the weaker who has aided your travels so far, I think that doesn't cover staying true to the alignment anymore, and hence the roleplaying argument is out.
I think playing a role actually makes you think what the character should be good at and what not. Sure any character can have funky combinations, but it's very hard to justify max in every stat that matters.
For me the game has evolved from needing very good stats and party members to complete the game, to taking lesser stats, taking suboptimal NPC's to the party, taking actions based on aligment and stats. It's fun to try different things and see if you can still succeed.
It just makes sense to me from a role playing point of view. Min/maxing for opimum tactical advantage does not.
I picked based on portraits, ability to wield certain items (keldorn for that badass sword), and npc interaction (kicked out that elf dude who was flirting with Aerie pretty fast).
Ability is obviously important (Vic for very powerful priest spells, same for Edwin and sorcery) but in the end i didn't really min/max my party and ended up having alot of trouble so just i could play with my favorites
I also didn't understand the rules back then, so i'm pretty sure i dropped some armors when i saw minus on the armor stats... I didn't use shields at all (dual-wield and 2h looked way cooler) and i never followed a full guide to complete all the quests (never finished the skinner quest) so i always found out something different on every playthrough
Good times! Sometimes i wonder how i finished the game... i guess i was very persistent
I don't get the need to oversimplify everything.
I love the NPCs, though. They are what makes the game so amazing to me, even years later.
19
19
19
13
15
14
Half-orc barb, overpowered....most definitely! Have a lot of fun though, and with the boots of speed, I'm sprinting around wielding two handed death by the loads, let the gods sort it all out.
Dorn never knew what hit him when I had to dispatch his evil self after he refused to see the light. Guess he was right about not trusting anyone. Well, at least a true neutral half orc barb bhaalspawn.
So to sum up, overpowered stats seem okay in BG series given your unique situation from a role playing pov.
What most of us like is to have control over what character to roleplay. Ignoring stats is losing that control. It's the same as saying "let's roll the dice and see what I will be today". That doesn't work for me. So stats, high or low are important. I may want to play an overpowered character, a gimp or a mundane person. What I don't want is to let a pseudo-random number generator dictate who I will be.
When I play with my Pally, I do not choose evil character (neither took edwin or Kagain during this playhrough).
Edwin is the best mage, but beyond this I always refused to take him when I can avoid it.
A dualed Imoen thief/conjurer was very nice in Vanilla BG.
Due to the laziness of the devs, it is no longer feasible in this so called "EE".