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Fewer enemies in BG:EE (WILL BE FIXED NEXT PATCH)

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  • bigdogchrisbigdogchris Member Posts: 1,336
    edited December 2012
    Sese79 said:

    @bigdogchris I played this game on normal diff. before a year. I remember well, that it is not. Under the Firewine bridge for example was a ton of kobold commando. Now you will find only two of them.

    As soon as I get a chance to play tonight I will go to Firewine and report back what encounters I had. I even watched the posted video of vanilla BG, so I know if something will be out of place. I won't do Durlags until I hit the cap, as it's a hard zone.

    Do you guys think that you may be going to area's of the game as lower level in BGEE, so the spawns are not happening as you expect? BGEE has been said to adjust spawn based on group size (maybe level too). I say this because I went to the area with the sirens last night and it spawned 3 groups of 3, they are absolutely brutal. If any encounter in the game was going to be nerfed, that would be one of them.


    *note*
    I do have to say, I did step into Peldvale and only saw 1 Black Talon Elite by the zone in (didn't say long). I also see the XVART camp does have less than before.
  • junk11junk11 Member Posts: 117
    edited December 2012
    For those who doesn't understand why many of us are complaining or can't be bother reading
    here is er...long ...i mean...short version..of what this is about

    you see there are few types of enemy encounter in BGEE, old BG series
    one is story script, which means such encounter is always the same when you replay
    (like those two you met in Candlekeep)
    one is rest spawn, some trolls (not that troll) like to ambush you while you are asleep

    next and foremost important one is the map spawn, the one we are arguing about...
    nearly every large map has few spawn points,
    these places as you noticed might respawn over and over again with some random but fixed mobs
    each point has some attributes to determines the type and number of monsters...
    there is no minimum value for number in the setting (but of course, the lowest value 0),
    there is only maximum value per spawn point in the map setting.
    the algorithm for respawning is unknown, however, we know it is tied to your party size and level as well as the enemies' difficulty rate.

    In original BG setting, your level doesn't actually affect much for lower level mobs.
    We can easily see 3~4 gibberings or bandits in one spawn point in chapter 1.
    Sometimes, 1 bear...but power bear!!!!! ok..maybe few wolves.
    It doesn't just provide difficulty but also DnD lore, they are likely come in packs.
    You don't ambush a group of six people with 1 person. Do you? or maybe you are lvl20 above.

    However, in BGEE, the algorithm for spawn points somehow changed,
    maybe it uses BG2 which is for high level or the developers changed it.
    No matter the reason, it doesn't seem right.
    Yes, you may see one gibbering occasionally while traveling, but not every single time in level 1~3.
    and seeing how one bandit with bow trying to ambush your six level 1 party is ridiculous.
    it tones down the difficulty as well as the lore itself. It's just not logical.
    Yes, you may see more and the formula working for higher level, but its too late.

    so many of us like to ask Overhaul changing the current algorithm. It only affects the random but fixed spawn points.
    There will be no harder battle in most story-linked situations.

    THE END

  • bigdogchrisbigdogchris Member Posts: 1,336
    edited December 2012
    junk11 said:

    For those who doesn't understand why many of us are complaining or can't be bother reading
    here is er...long ...i mean...short version..of what this is about

    you see there are few type of enemy encounter in BGEE, old BG series
    one is story script, which means such encounter is always the same when you replay
    (like those two you met in Candlekeep)
    one is rest spawn, some trolls (not that troll) like to ambush you while you are asleep

    next and foremost important one is the map spawn, the one we are arguing about...
    nearly every large map has few spawn points,
    these places as you noticed might respawn over and over again with some random but fixed mobs
    each point has some attributes to determines the type and number of monsters...
    there is no minimum value for number in the setting (but of course, the lowest value 0),
    there is only maximum value per spawn point in the map setting.
    the algorithm for respawning is unknown, however, we know it is tied to your party size and level as well as the enemies' difficulty rate.

    In original BG setting, your level doesn't actually affect much for lower level mobs.
    We can easily see 3~4 gibberings or bandits in one spawn point in chapter 1.
    Sometimes, 1 bear...but power bear!!!!! ok..maybe few wolves.
    It doesn't just provide difficulty but also DnD lore, they are likely come in packs.
    You don't ambush a group of six people with 1 person. Do you? or maybe you are lvl20 above.

    However, in BGEE, the algorithm for spawn points somehow changed,
    maybe it uses BG2 which is for high level or the developers changed it.
    No matter the reason, it doesn't seem right.
    Yes, you may see one gibbering occasionally while traveling, but not every single time in level 1~3.
    and seeing how one bandit with bow trying to ambush your six level 1 party is ridiculous.
    it tones down the difficulty as well as the lore itself. It's just not logical.
    Yes, you may see more and the formula working for higher level, but its too late.

    so many of us like to ask Overhaul changing the current algorithm. It only affects in random but fixed spawn points.
    There will be no harder battle in most story-linked situations.

    THE END

    I see you're point, especially about the minimal amount. I think that's a valid point and may be causing the majority of the problems. The minimal value should never be 0. If an encounter exist it's there for a reason and should have at least 1 enemy.

    That said, other than the XVART village (now that I remember), it hasn't seemed that off to me, but it has been a while since I played so I will accept that I could be remembering things wrong.

    Thanks for the summary.
  • Sese79Sese79 Member Posts: 478
    You are welcome. :)
    I saw this in other related topics too, ppl. just don't understand what we are talking about.
    I hope they will change it back. I wish if I select Core diff. than I get Core diff..
  • VarilVaril Member Posts: 14
    Probably not a bug, though the random spawns in this game are all-around wonky. I've killed a group of 4 Kobold's around Ulcaster's, walked just out of sight, and had them be back in the exact same place not 10 seconds later. It's really annoying. Plus the vanishing spawns when you reload a game.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited December 2012
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • SpuzzinSpuzzin Member Posts: 8
    Thanks @Aosaw, thats all we're after just now. Someone to tell us if it's a bug or as it should be.
  • Sese79Sese79 Member Posts: 478
    Dear @TrentOster,
    I sent a mail to You with the Subject: "Mr. Trent: What is the problem with the monster spawning? - Please find my answer here."
    Thank You again.
  • FlauschigFlauschig Member Posts: 84

    It was rather too easy for me to play. And i suck like a lot in BG, so thanks for explaining me why i wasn't dying so often ;-).

    but anyway - i was playing around a bit with BGSpawn (http://www.shsforums.net/topic/39639-release-bgspawn-version-111/) mod, which was designed for BGT and after few changes i think i came up with something that seems to work with BG:EE (but i didn't tested it to widely)

    http://sdrv.ms/TN4jJm

    I hope creator melkor_morgoth75 won't be mad at me for altering his work. Please use it at your own risk, but in case of problems, I will try to help.

    EDIT: It doesn't work right yet, but i will give it a try tomorrow (for now only random encounters seems to behave properly).

    For curious modders - I've changed the scripts/areas to point to areas names from original BG instead of BGT using this site http://baldur.cob-bg.pl/node/1822 . I've also included new GTIMES.IDS since EIGHT_HOURS const was missing and additional .cre file (wolfva01.cre from BG2) and removed constraint check for BGT.

    @Silent_Mark wish you luck. This would be one way to all.
  • bigdogchrisbigdogchris Member Posts: 1,336
    edited December 2012
    I have an update

    I had not yet explored Firewine Bridge, so I took advantage of the opportunity to experiment and found some interesting things.

    I took my party of level 5 characters there and noticed only 3 zombies (sometimes they were skeletons) on the one section by the side and only 5 kobolds on the other side by the dungeon entrance. I reloaded a few times and either got 0 mobs or very few.

    I reloaded my save, set all my characters to 161k XP and leveled them, then took them to Firewine. I noticed much more random encounters traveling there, with large groups of bandits. I also noticed many changes at Firewine Bridge. The spawns were much larger groups, I also noticed a group of zombies that spawned before the bridge as well as kobolds on the bridge, on the ground under the bridge shooting up, as well as an additional pack after you get off on top of the group by the dungeon. It was a much more challenging experience with the higher level characters.

    My original thought seems to be right, that the spawn rate has to do with your level. If you guys are visiting the zones with lower level characters you're not going to be getting the max spawns. I will try Durlags next and update this post.

    *update*

    Did the same thing at Durlags. There doe not seem to be a difference in spawn rate based on level in Durlags area.


    Post edited by bigdogchris on
  • Sese79Sese79 Member Posts: 478
    Yes, but 3 zombies and 5 kobolds for a party consisting of level 5 characters? :):)
    As I said before: the IDEA of scaling is flawless. But the actually number of the monsters is too low.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Also, this isn't something that needs to be emailed to the developers directly. Trust me that I'll bring it up, okay?

    From what @bigdogchris says, it sounds like the game is behaving as normal, depending on the party's level. But I'll bring it up so that it gets looked at. At the very least, there should be an answer for the "this time it spawned, next time it didn't" question. But I suspect the answer will still be "It's random."
  • PyroPatPyroPat Member Posts: 35
    This is a roleplaying game, read up on it on wiki if you are unsure of the term. The point is that you are in a world that you should experience, a world that you have to adjust to and act acording to, not the other way around- the world adjusting to you
  • Sese79Sese79 Member Posts: 478
    @Aosaw: @bigdogchris showed us with this example (and there are many examples on this pages) that the system is working, but it is not working good. The scaling is happening, but the number of the monsters are too low. Seriously 3 zombie and 5 kobolds for a party consisting of 5 level characters? It's a bad joke.
  • Sese79Sese79 Member Posts: 478
    www.gamebanshee.com
    Original Spawn Points
    Thanks @PyroPat!
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    And I said I'm looking into it.

    Give me more than an hour to figure it out; I'm not at my computer right now. ;)
  • Sese79Sese79 Member Posts: 478
    "a world that you have to adjust to and act acording to, not the other way around- the world adjusting to you "
    Yes, I wrote this to Mr. Trent and Mr. Nathan too.
    This is a Points-of-Light system.
    This is AD&D.
    The Core means the Core. Not some difficulty system created from the thin air.
  • Sese79Sese79 Member Posts: 478
    @Aosaw, thanks. Not intended to be such a Troll, sorry. I try to reasoning, I am just tired, and this is all already written in this pages, we are just repeating ourselves.
  • mch202mch202 Member Posts: 1,455
    I told you he listens... Thanks Nathan :)
  • Sese79Sese79 Member Posts: 478
    edited December 2012
    Thank You all.
    (I received a mail form Mr. Nathan: "Thanks for bringing this to our attention - we'll look into it.")
  • LordOfLostSocksLordOfLostSocks Member Posts: 23
    edited December 2012
    Aosaw said:

    Also, this isn't something that needs to be emailed to the developers directly. Trust me that I'll bring it up, okay?

    From what @bigdogchris says, it sounds like the game is behaving as normal, depending on the party's level. But I'll bring it up so that it gets looked at. At the very least, there should be an answer for the "this time it spawned, next time it didn't" question. But I suspect the answer will still be "It's random."

    It's just taking surprisingly long for devs to respond, and a lot of people are wondering whether they should be expecting a patch or just finish it. Because currently I have about 5 hours invested in my game. I can easily start over one there's a patch, but I don't feel like playing until I know what's up. And sitting here waiting is hard when all I want to do is play it :)

    Thankfully the devs atleast answered. So now I wait for further info.
  • TemplarTemplar Member Posts: 21
    edited December 2012
    Aosaw said:

    And sitting here waiting is hard when all I want to do is play it :)

    Just play through the game twice! It is what I intend to do at least! :)

  • bigdogchrisbigdogchris Member Posts: 1,336
    edited December 2012
    Updated my post. Durlags does not seem to have different spawn based on level, whether my group was level 5, or my group was at max level, I got very few spawns.
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    edited December 2012
    Merged the threads.
  • Space_hamsterSpace_hamster Member Posts: 950
    It's probably just a matter of shifting a decimal or two ;)
  • The_New_RomanceThe_New_Romance Member Posts: 839
    I do wonder how no one noticed that during beta. I'd have expected all of them to have played vanilla BG and BGT/Tutu pretty much to death, and if that were the case, the botched spawn rates should have been detected months ago.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Okay, the issue has been submitted into the tracker.

    The spawn rates aren't "botched"; they're just a bit less than what you'd like. We did notice them, and we talked about them, and from what I understand the consensus was that scaling them based on party size and level was a good idea, and difficulty as well.

    What you're experiencing in a lot of cases is random spawns being spawned not only randomly in terms of time, but also in terms of location. So you might not encounter that wolf, xvart, and kobold combination encounter all at once because one or all of them might be somewhere else on the map.

    That said, the spawning rates for other places (Firewine Ruins, for example) could use some looking. And it will be looked at, as Nathan pointed out earlier.
  • Space_hamsterSpace_hamster Member Posts: 950
    Kudos to you, to you all!
This discussion has been closed.