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Bug: Monster respawn issue

beo01beo01 Member Posts: 7
edited March 2013 in Fixed
Kobold in the labyrinth respawn about every minute, really frustrating to clear a corridor to find the kobold in between your team specially when the npc tend to get lost and not follow through because of the narrow corridor. Hopefully this is only specific to this dungeon.
The behavior is consistent with what happen in the outdoor, however the bad path finding make it worse. Story wise it make sense wildlife spawn, but not in a corridor you just secured.

Post edited by Aedan on
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Comments

  • LordsDarkKnight185LordsDarkKnight185 Member Posts: 615
    The area north of the gnoll stronghold. There is a river on the right side of the map with two bridges. One of the bridges has an ogre berzerzer and two hobgoblins. I can kill them and walk away...when I walk back they have returned.

  • PawnSlayerPawnSlayer Member Posts: 295
    I've seen similar in other areas, but my party is quite high level now so I expect more monsters. I also want them, so that I can keep gaining experience.

  • ChowChow Member Posts: 1,192
    Obviously those aren't the same ones, because you already killed them. No, these are their families, coming to mourn for the loss and attempting to take tearful vengeance to you if you dare to return to the scene of murder.

    You bastard.

    CorvinoTJ_Hooker
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,956
    edited December 2012
    Yea I've seen this. I've also seen some more monsters that pop out of nowhere. Like you clear an area, go back, and there are now 5 half-orcs there chillaxing.

  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263
    edited December 2012
  • Space_hamsterSpace_hamster Member Posts: 950
    Look people, there is an orc hunting quota, if you hunt them all, there won't be any for next season!

    TJ_Hooker
  • MedillenMedillen Member Posts: 632
    Merged and placed in appropriate section :-)

  • InsIns Member Posts: 11
    If OP is talking about the dungeon at the firewine or whatever bridge, I had the same problem. [fire arrow]Kobolds kept spawning behind my party and shooting my mages or other such jokes.

  • LordsDarkKnight185LordsDarkKnight185 Member Posts: 615
    Ins said:

    If OP is talking about the dungeon at the firewine or whatever bridge, I had the same problem. [fire arrow]Kobolds kept spawning behind my party and shooting my mages or other such jokes.

    No, i'm talking about this area, its JUST above the Gnoll Stronghold on the west corner of the map.

    http://mikesrpgcenter.com/bgate/maps/northofgnollstronghold.gif

  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263
    edited December 2012
    He meant the other OP. Two threads have been merged, so there're two OPs now^^

  • beo01beo01 Member Posts: 7
    Ins said:

    If OP is talking about the dungeon at the firewine or whatever bridge, I had the same problem. [fire arrow]Kobolds kept spawning behind my party and shooting my mages or other such jokes.

    my problem exactly, I cleared parts of the dungeon only to find kobolds respawning in corridor between my party a few moment later. Because of the poor pathfinding, I lost my mage to them as he went wandering alone in already cleared area. It would be good if dungeons would stay cleared (I don't remember that happening in the original, and even if it was the case I don't think it should).

  • sazalandsazaland Member Posts: 25
    This is supposed to happen. It happened in the original. Firewine Ruins, Gnoll Stronghold, and to some degree High Hedge are supposed to have endlessly respawning enemies anywhere there's fog of war. It's the entire reason the areas are dangerous.

    Rather, it wasn't happening before as part of the bugged spawns in BG:EE, a recent patch claims to have fixed the spawn system, and thus original behaviors such as this are restored.

    In terms of Firewine Ruins understand the kobolds are much smaller than you and might fit into cracks and crevices that you can't, and you may not even be able to see. The plot of the area is that the sneaky kobolds are living right under Gullykin, the challenge of that area is the attrition of the constant ambushes in tight quarters by Kobold Commandos.

    If you don't enjoy it you're free to not do that particular area, trust me when I say many in the original game chose to skip it for those reasons. In particular imagine for a moment what it would be like if party members couldn't push each other out of the way and the pathfinding was half as intelligent as it is now: that's what it was like in BG1 vanilla.

    ShandyrDiscoCatErg
  • Avenger_teambgAvenger_teambg Member, Developer Posts: 5,862
    edited December 2012
    The continuous respawn issue will be handled in next patch, most likely. (#1300)

  • ErgErg Member Posts: 1,756
    The continuous respawn in areas like Firewine ruins or the Gnoll stronghold is an original feature of BG1, not a bug (unless there is something else wrong with the spawning system in BGEE). So I really hope this don't get fixed. In the same way I hope the next patch will not change weapon resistance for Karoug. What would be next, replacing Firkraag with a squirrel in BG2EE ?

  • ChowChow Member Posts: 1,192
    Erg said:

    The continuous respawn in areas like Firewine ruins or the Gnoll stronghold is an original feature of BG1, not a bug (unless there is something else wrong with the spawning system in BGEE). So I really hope this don't get fixed. In the same way I hope the next patch will not change weapon resistance for Karoug. What would be next, replacing Firkraag with a squirrel in BG2EE ?

    Just because it was in the original game doesn't mean it wasn't a bug. It's simply one that has gone relatively unnoticed for this long. It's not even the only one: look at Algernon's Cloak, which wasn't fixed until like a week ago.

  • ErgErg Member Posts: 1,756
    edited December 2012
    @Chow

    It was intentional and it makes these areas challenging. When I have cleared the Firewine Ruins, for instance, I feel a sense of accomplishment like almost nowhere else in the game.

    Edit: For "cleared", I mean fully explored given that they cannot never be completely cleared

  • ChowChow Member Posts: 1,192
    How do you know it was intentional?

    And I'm all down for ruins and dungeons to attract new tenants after they've been emptied, but literally ten seconds so is a bit ridiculous.

    TJ_Hooker
  • ErgErg Member Posts: 1,756
    Chow said:

    How do you know it was intentional?

    And I'm all down for ruins and dungeons to attract new tenants after they've been emptied, but literally ten seconds so is a bit ridiculous.

    I know that was intentional because BG1 is an old school game, from a time when people liked a good challenge now and then.

    However, I agree with you on Algernon's Cloak. That was clearly an exploit and needed to be fixed, like many other exploits (for instance the books exploit in Ulcaster, etc.).

  • ChowChow Member Posts: 1,192
    Erg said:

    I know that was intentional because BG1 is an old school game, from a time when people liked a good challenge now and then.

    Oh, I do enjoy some challenge, but I think you're missing the point pretty badly here. I don't think anyone here is objecting on lightning-fast monster respawn because of the challenge, or saying that's why it's ridiculous: we're doing so because it makes no sense and breaks any immersion we might have gotten to the story.

  • ErgErg Member Posts: 1,756
    edited December 2012
    Chow said:



    Oh, I do enjoy some challenge, but I think you're missing the point pretty badly here. I don't think anyone here is objecting on lightning-fast monster respawn because of the challenge, or saying that's why it's ridiculous: we're doing so because it makes no sense and breaks any immersion we might have gotten to the story.

    The reason why it makes sense and should not break immersion is already on @sazaland post above. So I don't see any reason to repeat it here.

    Post edited by Erg on
  • BarfbeardBarfbeard Member Posts: 5

    The area north of the gnoll stronghold. There is a river on the right side of the map with two bridges. One of the bridges has an ogre berzerzer and two hobgoblins. I can kill them and walk away...when I walk back they have returned.

    I had that with Wolfweres on the shipwreck island. As they are quite strong, it was really annoying.

  • Avenger_teambgAvenger_teambg Member, Developer Posts: 5,862
    @erg they will still respawn after the respawn time. They just won't respawn immediately the spawn point is out of LOS.

  • ErgErg Member Posts: 1,756
    edited December 2012

    @erg they will still respawn after the respawn time.
    They just won't respawn immediately the spawn point is out of LOS.

    @Avenger_teambg

    I noticed this problem (i.e. immediate respawn out of LOS) in other areas as well, where is not supposed to happen, so it seems there is something still wrong with the respawn in BGEE. I agree that this needs to be fixed in general. However, I still believe that in areas like Firewine Ruins, Gnoll Stronghold, etc. the respawn time should be kept sufficiently short to make them annoying. These areas are supposed to be annoying.

  • Avenger_teambgAvenger_teambg Member, Developer Posts: 5,862
    edited December 2012
    @Erg yes, because the patch is not yet in live. I thought about the respawn time too. I just check that.

    [edit] firewine - i'm not sure if it was originally intended to be that annoying. The respawn method field is set to totally random values for firewine. Like the editor was not yet supporting that field at the time they worked on it, or such. Just look at it in NI :)

  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    @Avenger_teambg: good!

    But of course, in some cases (such as Firewine dungeon) the intended respawn time is very short, so it should still be almost as soon as the spawn point is out of LoS. That was always the point of the challenge in that dungeon - and this was always very useful to the player, if you wanted to stock up on the excellent Fire Arrows +2 dropped by the Kobold Commandoes.

  • ErgErg Member Posts: 1,756
    edited December 2012

    The respawn method field is set to totally random values for firewine. Like the editor was not yet supporting that field at the time they worked on it, or such. Just look at it in NI :)

    Maybe that's because the current version of NI is not fully compatible yet with BGEE. It should be checked on vanilla BG1. I have BG1Tutu (not vanilla) on my old computer, maybe later I can check there.

    However I played in the past both vanilla and tutu and the respawn in Firewine Ruins has always been very intense.

    From Dan Simmons famous walkthrough (written for BG1 vanilla):
    Note: What makes this dungeon tough isn't the type of enemy you fight, it's how many of them there are. Not only are there a lot of Kobold Commandos to start with, but they constantly re-spawn making it hard to get anywhere.
    That's how is supposed to be.

  • Avenger_teambgAvenger_teambg Member, Developer Posts: 5,862
    @erg nah, i mentioned NI because that is what people use. I use my own tools. Anyway, the area structure itself didn't change, so NI is just as good. And i'm totally neutral on this topic, it is not up to me to decide on this change. I've added a comment on the tracker entry that some people want to keep certain areas in the continuous spawn state. I don't want to care about this any more.

  • ErgErg Member Posts: 1,756
    edited December 2012
    @Avenger_teambg

    Thanks for adding the comment on the tracker.

    I'm aware that some of my posts may seem too harsh, but this is out of love for the original BG1. I'm just afraid that too many changes in the wrong direction will result in a dumbed down version of the game. I really hope that the developers will take that in account.

    Post edited by Erg on
  • ChowChow Member Posts: 1,192
    Make it dependent on the difficulty setting, perhaps?

  • AedanAedan Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 8,228
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