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Some people just want to watch the world burn. 20 children dead in CT

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Comments

  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,015
    You can check somebodies history before selling them a gun but every single killer, mass murderer and "bad guy" had a clean record at one point. Maybe check somebodies history and then send them to a fortune teller to ok them as well in order to predict future behavior. Seem legit.

    MedullaOblongata
  • ChowChow Member Posts: 1,192

    You can check somebodies history before selling them a gun but every single killer, mass murderer and "bad guy" had a clean record at one point. Maybe check somebodies history and then send them to a fortune teller to ok them as well in order to predict future behavior. Seem legit.

    But in most of these really bad cases, they actually are pretty clean. I got the impression this guy hasn't been up to anything naughty before during his life.

  • Kitteh_On_A_CloudKitteh_On_A_Cloud Member Posts: 1,629
    @Chow: An impression's not the same as a fact. :p But yeah, most psychopaths need something to pull their trigger, so to speak.

  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    edited December 2012
    So... now Westboro Baptist Church is going to picket the funerals of the victims of the shooting. But they're not going to get away with that Scot-Free. Seems Anonymous has taken notice...



    If I had the magical ability to make my wishes come true, I'd do the following to prevent the tragedy: #1, take away not guns from people, but automatics and semi-automatics for anybody other than police in the course of their job and/or the military in the course of their job. You don't need those for hunting or protection, they are really only good for killing mass numbers of people. I don't think you should be able to buy semi and automatic weapons and keep them in your home for no good reason. #2 Ban Banana Clips and other outsized clips for bullets. Another thing you have no need for unless you are going to be out killing mass amounts of people. Single-shot rifles or clips of up to 8 bullets is fine, anything else is overkill. #3 Enable people to get the mental health help they need without stigmatizing them. No one needs to be told they are crazies who are going to hurt people if they are going to a mental health professional for depression. I'd like to de-stigmatize going to a "shrink"/psychologist/what have you entirely. Everyone needs help sometimes. #4 Stop bullying, everywhere. I think it would do a lot to help people have less depression and rage towards the world. When you are everyone's buttmonkey, it hurts (I know, I've been there), and I think this would help a great deal when combined with #3. #5 Yes, more background checks for people applying for gun permits, along with a psychiatric evaluation-because sometimes, it's necessary, and I think responsible gun owners would agree with this. #6 The drying up of the illegal gun market in this country.

    Well, we can't have everything we wish for, but I think we can accomplish more than a few of those, if we just try. People say it's too soon to talk about gun control in this country. But if not now, when? By the time a mass shooting happens, it's not too soon- it's much, much too late. A gun is not a penis extension to make you more manly, it's a tool. A tool that can kill people much faster and easier than a hand-to-hand weapon like a knife. We need to do something about America's obsession with guns and faster and better ways to kill people with things like copkiller rounds and hollowpoint ammo. And I'm speaking as an American myself. I have no problem with owning guns for hunting. But automatics and semi-automatics? Hell, yeah.

    DrugarBaldursCatmlnevese
  • Space_hamsterSpace_hamster Member Posts: 950
    edited December 2012
    Facts are facts, most people are harmed by their own guns, either by their own hands, or another.
    As a non-American my opinion probably matters little, but it seems insane to me that anyone who lives in a democratic country sees it necessary to own their own gun, let alone a semi-automatic machine gun. Indeed, America is a violent society. This also needs to finally be addressed.

    That every single other developed nation on the planet has better gun control laws and fewer deaths by guns by several orders of magnitude, America needs some serious introspection and changes made. Maybe Obama will be able to do it.

    ChowBaldursCatmlnevesesmeagolheart
  • Kitteh_On_A_CloudKitteh_On_A_Cloud Member Posts: 1,629
    I agree with both of you, @ LadyRhian (awesome post!) and @Space_hamster. Very well said. Now if only it was executed for real, eh.

  • Kitteh_On_A_CloudKitteh_On_A_Cloud Member Posts: 1,629
    @LadyRhian, sorry, tagged wrongly and am on my phone right now. :p

  • gesellegeselle Member Posts: 325
    Sick events in a even more sick society, america the brutal. Face it, the USA revel in these massacres. Big TV shows, where you see crying families and friends, millions of people watching. A great occasion to show empty compassion, or to babble empty phrases.

    The biggest tragedy: nothing will change, and the next gun rampage will happen.

  • Fighting_FerretFighting_Ferret Member Posts: 229
    The second amendment of the US Constitution grants the right to it's citizens to bear arms. This was the result of the American Revolutionary War with Great Britain, where we feared retaliation from Great Britain and their numerous Native American allies.

    This was a period of time when, although we had a standing army, many of our armed forces were made up of volunteers who formed militias and had to supply their own arms to fight. This was also a time before police forces and grocery stores.

    The gun made the United States possible. It allowed us to break away from the tyranny of a monarchy, provided food and defense in a hostile/wild territory, allowed us to assert our independence on an international level in the War of 1812, again against Great Britain. It grew our land holdings westward. It settled the great dispute of States Rights and slavery in the American Civil War, it won the wars against Spain and Mexico to create a country from one ocean to the other. It has defended our allies from invasion and hostile take over (World War 1, and World War 2, Kuwait/Iraq) It has defended our own nation when we our selves were attacked (World War 2) and it has brought some semblance of freedom to countries that were under the thumb of totalitarianism. It has brought justice to armies, outlaws, and terrorists.

    That being said the gun has allowed genocide, fratricide, lawlessness, vigilantism, extinction/near extinction of animal species, and the killing of civilians and even of children. All this within the acceptable use for the times. Guns allowed criminal organizations to survive and even thrive as they knocked off rivals or those who imposed law and order on their illicit operations.

    It is every American's right to own firearms, and many still see their right as security from government take over and criminal actions. A gun is nothing more than a tool, and some tools have more uses than others. It's how you view that tool and what it is capable of that warrants your use of that tool. Any object including your bare hands can kill people, but most of them have other primary uses.

    Take a look at how your society views weapons. We as a Americans view the gun as a good thing, a legal right, the protector of the innocent, the scourge of tyranny, a favored hobby/pastime. We produce media and entertainment laced with our gun fascination. Some are our romanticized stories of the wild west, or gangsters/mobsters, futuristic take over by varying forces (from the extra terrestrial to our own government), or to nuclear holocaust/apocalyptic scenarios) and some are realistic portrayals of violence that should be seen to appreciate the sacrifice/waste of human life, and yet others just to scare/amuse ourselves with our own inherent fascination of violence.

    The overall argument of guns in the United States brings too many variables against too many interpretations about what the Second Amendment actually means, but however the argument of gun ownership goes, there needs to be a focus on the underlying perception of forearms/weapons/violence in the society of the United States and quite possibly the world in general.

    The time it takes to take a life with a gun is under one second. The time it takes to make sense of losing that life is infinite.

  • GoddardGoddard Member Posts: 134
    The fact is you can't ban crazy, stupid, and sick. Banning something like a gun only hurts the good people. If those teachers would of been taught how to protect themselves and carried a weapon then those students would of been safe. Plan and simple.

    You can kill people with a lot of things. You going to go banning everything just because it might hurt some one when it falls into the wrong hands? That is just stupid.

    Stop expecting big daddy government to come up with a new law to help make you feel safe. It is your responsibility to protect yourself from individuals and when you drop your kids off at a public school their should be some form of protection as well just like every where you go.

    The reason America has the highest gun deaths is because of the class stratification.

    Those numbers are high because of drug wars which has been proven to be pointless.

    Bottom line if a person has a metal shop they can make a gun. If a person knows where a police officer lives they can steal a gun. If a person has a throwing knife they can use it... it goes on and on and on.

    Never give up your rights for the sake of security. Don't shrink in fear when these things happen.

    You need to give a strong perception and take steps to strengthen the communities morality give people the power to protect themselves.

    What's better 10 cops protecting a 1000 people, or a 1000 people protecting themselves?

    Sily
  • ChowChow Member Posts: 1,192
    @Goddard: Guns are not good for defense - they can only do offensive, they can only kill. They may protect you, but they do so only by taking another life.

    How are guns better than, say, pepper spray? It's easier to use too.

  • GoddardGoddard Member Posts: 134
    edited December 2012
    If you want to quickly put some one down a gun is your best choice at the moment. Pepper spray works fine when the situation isn't mass life threatening.

    When some one has a bomb, or a gun I would much rather have a gun then a bottle of pepper spray.

  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,015
    Goddard said:


    Never give up your rights for the sake of security. Don't shrink in fear when these things happen.

    You need to give a strong perception and take steps to strengthen the communities morality give people the power to protect themselves.

    What's better 10 cops protecting a 1000 people, or a 1000 people protecting themselves?

    I don't trust a mob of 1000 people with guns. A person may seem ok, like say a vice-principal, but what if their kid gets a hold of their gun after a bad day? What if the vice-principal loses their darn mind because they are going through a nasty divorce or got a terminal disease which causes them to snap. That person's history had been clean but there's no predicting their future behavior.

    Why stop at arming the teachers with guns? Why not arm the children with guns too? If those teachers all had guns you can't say not one of them would ever forget to lock up their gun and leave it sitting around. This happens all the time at people's homes like @Space_hamster said most people hurt themselves with their own guns.

  • GoddardGoddard Member Posts: 134
    edited December 2012
    Not sure how old you are, but if you have ever seen cops do nasty things ya they happen its called being human. You can't protect yourself from every situation.

    They are trying to make it illegal right now to take video of cops right now using a wire tap law that wasn't even meant for that purpose. It was meant to protect people. A police officer was video tapped shooting a kid in the back and he got 2 years in prison. I should add that there was two others cops around the kid and the kid was hand cuffed behind his back. These type of things happen ALOT.

    What if that kid was you?

    What I am saying is completely giving all power you have to a select few can have negative results as well, but we don't fixate on that now do we?

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,942
    edited December 2012
    Goddard said:

    The fact is you can't ban crazy, stupid, and sick. Banning something like a gun only hurts the good people. If those teachers would of been taught how to protect themselves and carried a weapon then those students would of been safe. Plan and simple.

    You can kill people with a lot of things. You going to go banning everything just because it might hurt some one when it falls into the wrong hands? That is just stupid.

    Stop expecting big daddy government to come up with a new law to help make you feel safe. It is your responsibility to protect yourself from individuals and when you drop your kids off at a public school their should be some form of protection as well just like every where you go.

    The reason America has the highest gun deaths is because of the class stratification.

    Those numbers are high because of drug wars which has been proven to be pointless.

    Bottom line if a person has a metal shop they can make a gun. If a person knows where a police officer lives they can steal a gun. If a person has a throwing knife they can use it... it goes on and on and on.

    Never give up your rights for the sake of security. Don't shrink in fear when these things happen.

    You need to give a strong perception and take steps to strengthen the communities morality give people the power to protect themselves.

    What's better 10 cops protecting a 1000 people, or a 1000 people protecting themselves?

    The drug trade is a big contributing factor in the firearms deaths in the states, especially when you consider that most of the highest firearm related murder rates are in countries in south america or the caribbean, but its not like at the same time these aren't problems (drug trafficking) affecting Europe.

    Sily
  • ChowChow Member Posts: 1,192
    Goddard said:

    Not sure how old you are, but if you have ever seen cops do nasty things ya they happen its called being human. You can't protect yourself from every situation.

    They are trying to make it illegal right now to take video of cops right now using a wire tap law that wasn't even meant for that purpose. It was meant to protect people. A police officer was video tapped shooting a kid in the back and he got 2 years in prison.

    What if that kid was you?

    What I am saying is completely giving all power you have to a select few can have negative results as well, but we don't fixate on that now do we?

    Most places outside America manage just fine without arming absolutely everyone. In fact, I hear we don't even need as many prisons per population count, and those prisons aren't so full or hellish.

  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,015
    Goddard said:

    Not sure how old you are, but if you have ever seen cops do nasty things ya they happen its called being human. You can't protect yourself from every situation.

    They are trying to make it illegal right now to take video of cops right now using a wire tap law that wasn't even meant for that purpose. It was meant to protect people. A police officer was video tapped shooting a kid in the back and he got 2 years in prison. I should add that there was two others cops around the kid and the kid was hand cuffed behind his back. These type of things happen ALOT.

    What if that kid was you?

    What I am saying is completely giving all power you have to a select few can have negative results as well, but we don't fixate on that now do we?

    The not recording cops thing is ridiculous and ripe for abuse as you mentioned.

    Your are darn right about this: completely giving all power to a select few.

    For example HSBC, too big to jail, is the new poster child for US two-tiered justice system
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/12/hsbc-prosecution-fine-money-laundering

  • GoddardGoddard Member Posts: 134
    Yes the Swedish people make the same as America and work less and have better benefits, but knowing this doesn't help us. I also hear some places in Europe don't have street lights. We could save a lot of money if we did that. I don't think it would work that well, but we would save money.

  • GoddardGoddard Member Posts: 134
    If anything I would think this would make people want to come together.

    I mean we had a major bank mixed up with laundering some drug lords money and our government gave them a pass.

    That is scary to me. Believe me I don't want to be some crazy gun guy. I have only two. One for me and one for my wife. Which are bio-metrically secure and only work in either of our hands. I just want to protect the ones I love.

  • Kitteh_On_A_CloudKitteh_On_A_Cloud Member Posts: 1,629
    @Goddard: Yeah, because arming every individual to the teeth will certainly help things. It will certainly NOT grow paranoia and alienation among people and it will certainly help growing peace. *rolls eyes*
    Sorry, but I don't buy that. There must be other ways, safer ways. Gun laws should become far more strict in the US, just like in Europe.

  • swnmcmlxiswnmcmlxi Member Posts: 297
    edited December 2012
    @Goddard: What. On. Earth. Are. You. Talking. About???
    Street lights? That is some kind of joke, isn't it? Please tell me that it is...
    You wrote "...I don't want to be some crazy gun guy. I have only two. One for me and one for my wife. Which are bio-metrically secure and only work in either of our hands..."
    Welly-welly-well, doesn't that make us all feel safe, fluffy, pink, and secure. Your firearms only work - if I interpret you correctly - when you or your wife handle them. Wow! That's amazing! I mean, it's just like Xan's moonblade... I... just... wow! I have lived for half a century in Sweden (since my birth), and I didn't realise that we were so completely permeated in magic... Gosh... I'm gob-smacked...

    EDIT: All right, so I googled 'biometrical'. Right... OK... you... really thought this through, didn't you? Hmmm... well, just ignore this post, will you? I think we live on different planets, to be honest.

  • ChowChow Member Posts: 1,192
    People are getting killed with guns? Well, obviously we need more guns.

    Sound logic!

  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    From what I've heard, the guns Adam Lanza used didn't belong to him, they belonged to his mother. That's another thing. Every home that has a gun should have a gun safe or a place to lock down their guns and use them every day (I would have said religiously, but church tends to be a oncea week affair among many people in the US, and we want it to be used all the time). If you know one of your children is troubled or violent, they shouldn't be able to unlock or use those guns without your consent. Unfortunately, we can't legislate away stupid and/or careless and some people are both. They don't deserve to have guns, either. As I said in my other post, there are responsible gun owners- and there are irresponsible gun owners. We should try to turn the latter into the former- and if they can't be turned responsible, they should lose their gun licenses and guns, just like how repeat drunk driving offenders and people responsible for vehicular manslaughter have their driver's licenses and cars taken away. If you act in a stupid manner with a gun, you should lose the right to own and have one.

    ChowKitteh_On_A_CloudSily
  • O_BruceO_Bruce Member Posts: 2,761
    Do not ban guns. Just make ammuniton f*cking, really f*cking expensive (500$ for one shot?). Maybe that will make people think twice before pulling the trigger.

  • Kitteh_On_A_CloudKitteh_On_A_Cloud Member Posts: 1,629
    @ZelgadisGW: That's actually not such a bad idea! I think there are better hobbies than showing off with a gun in a range in your free time anyway. Guns were made to kill. Wouldn't touch a gun even for so-called pastime. That's what games are for.

  • Aris4lifeAris4life Member Posts: 103
    edited December 2012
    In advance: Sorry for my poor English! It's not my mother tongue.

    Screw that. Eye for an eye. Rule with fear. This person deserves nothing. There is nothing to understand, and there never will be.

    what good would happen from trying to understand this sick person? It certainly wouldn't prevent it from happening again. I think the parents of those children deserve the opportunity to do whatever they want to that pathetic corpse, if it helps them grieve.


    Sorry to be that honest...but you Sir are simple minded. And to go a little bit further, I don't understand the Americans who say: "if the teachers had weapons, such things would never happen." I mean wtf? Watch Bowling for Columbine...It says everything about the american mentality...rule with fear...(yeah they do that in form of news who shock everybody...so they need to buy more weapons, to feel more save) what a fucking rule is this? Self right to arm yourself? Total Bullshit! Shoot everybody who enters your ground without permission? Even bigger Bullshit...that means your state doesn't work...arbitrariness all over the place.

    And why are over 80% inmates of prisons black...because the news make them the bad. I don't see no equality in this country. I know...this has nothing to do with the actual topic, but if you use your brain you will see it has. There are so many reasons for this shooting, that lay underneath the surface.

    How can anybody say that the USA are the safest place in the world, if you have the permission and the arms to kill each other...I don't even wanna visit the USA anymore...because I must fear that I get shot by little kids, who get their first weapon at the age of 5..their father wants to be proud of them..so they get a weapon and learn how to use them...that's what happened with this shooter...instead of playing somewhere with his friends, his mother took him to a gun range...wow really? I bet she would wonder why he shot her in the face before he killed those kids in that school.

    I may risk your anger, but to the americans over here...you are a part of this society, which means you are responsible for this too. Instead of caring for the people in your surrounding, you care way more about keeping them on distance, by buying weapons, but you forget, that they do the same thing. And if they become unstable, you might not know what happens next.





    Post edited by Aris4life on
    smeagolheart
  • Kitteh_On_A_CloudKitteh_On_A_Cloud Member Posts: 1,629
    @Aris4life: Hmm, you have a point. I just think Americans should tone down their ridiculous obsession with weapons. Give the common man in the street a gun and God knows what he'll do with it. It's as @LadyRhian said earlier: guns should be used with responsibility. È think owning a gun at home gives a false feeling of security. Imagine, your toddler finds your weapon and accidentally hurts him/herself or points it at your face, unaware of the risks involved? What would you do as a parent then? I also think the health care system in the USA sucks balls. Sorry, but evn in Europe we got better than that. I think it's definitely one of the points that should be addressed by president Obama ASAP. Give these people the right to get medication and health care at a reasonable cost. Schools over there are already expensive enough as they are right now. Less shiny promises, more actual deeds. I personally think the USA has come to a low point in its history and I really hope this situation will change anytime soon. What I don't understand is how people who are so mentally unstable are allowed to walk around freely. That is why I would support better care for them, so that they don't pose a threat to other and to themselves any longer. Perhaps studying these people and the environment they live(d) in is indeed the best solution, because some mental illnesses are in-born. I don't know what was the case with this murderer, though. But mental instability is definitely part of the reason behind his mass murder.

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