Barbarian or Berserker?

Curmudgeon

Here is a comparison of Barbarians and Berserkers.
Would like to read your thoughts about which you find superior overall.

BARBARIAN
Advantages:
- Rolls d12 for HP instead of a Fighter's d10
- Moves 2 points faster than the normal character movement rate
- Immune to backstab
- At Level 11 gains 10% Resistance to Slashing, Piercing, Crushing & Missile Damage
At Level 15 gains 5% more DMG Resistance (Total: 15%)
At Level 19 gains 5% more DMG Resistance (Total: 20%)
[With the HLA 'Hardiness' and the 'Defender of Easthaven Flail',
Total DMG Resistance can reach 80% / Missile 60%]

- Can use Barbarian Rage 1/day for every 4 levels (Levels 1, 5, 9, 13, ...)
Rage lasts for 30 seconds
Rage gives +4 to STR & CON
Rage gives +2 to Saves vs Spells
Rage gives immunity to "ALL" Charm, Confusion, Fear, Hold, Maze, Stun, & Sleep
Rage gives Negative Plane Protection (Immunity to Level Drain)
Unlike Berserker Enrage, Barbarian Rage does NOT make the Barbarian winded, with associated penalties
Rage gives a -2 AC PENALTY

Disadvantages:
- Can not wear Full-Plate & Plate Armors
- Can become no more than Specialized (**) in any Weapon Proficiency
- Can not Dual-Class

Further Comparisons:
- Can become no more than Specialized (**) in Ranged Weapon Proficiencies
(Long bow, Short Bow, Crossbow, Sling, Dart)

BERSERKER
Advantages:
- Can use Enrage 1/day for every 4 levels (Levels 1, 5, 9, 13, ...)
Enrage lasts for 60 seconds
Enrage gives +2 to Hit, +2 DMG, & -2 AC
Enrage gives immunity to Charm, Confusion, Fear, FEEBLEMIND, Hold, IMPRISONMENT, Maze, Stun, & Sleep
Enrage gives Negative Plane Protection (Immunity to Level Drain)
Enrage gives +15 HP (Removed when Enrage ends, possibly killing the Berserker)

Disadvantages:
- Becomes winded (30 seconds) after Enrage.
While winded, receives -2 to Hit, -2 to DMG & a +2 PENALTY to AC
- Can become no more than Proficient (*) in Ranged Weapon Proficiencies
(Long bow, Short Bow, Crossbow, Sling, Dart)

Further Comparisons:
- Can wear Full-Plate & Plate Armors
- Can achieve Grand Mastery (*****) in Melee Weapon Proficiencies
- Can achieve Grand Mastery (*****) in Melee Throwing Weapon Proficiencies (Axe, Hammer, Dagger)
- Can Dual-Class
- [With the HLA 'Hardiness' and the 'Defender of Easthaven' Flail,
Total DMG Resistance can reach 60% / Missile 40%]

N.B. The 'Defender of Easthaven' is a +3 THAC0 weapon [Also +1 AC Bonus] / [No Missile DMG Resistance Bonus]
Leather Armor with good AC (SoA): Armor of the Viper +5 (AC 2) / Shadow Dragon Scale (AC 1)
Chain Mail with good AC (ToB): Aslyferund Elven Chain +5 (AC 0) / White Dragon Scale (AC -2)

Itstucktwice

Barbarians are currently bugged and are only get d10 rather than d12. That deserves a mention.

Hoo

Berserker is better than Barbarian in BG1 part imo because higher AC by wearing heavy armors and Grand Mastery of weapon proficiency are much more outshined than Physical Damage Resistance, which can not be gained in BG1 exp cap.

Oxford_Guy

Itstucktwice said:

Barbarians are currently bugged and are only get d10 rather than d12. That deserves a mention.

Has this been bug reported?

Itstucktwice

I have not personally reported it, no. I only read it somewhere else on this forum and tested it out myself. I assumed it would have already been reported since the thread it was discussed in seemed pretty large.

valky

+ the Berserker makes a superior choice for anything that might wanna dual-class in BG2 (lvl 9 for the "real" 5th pip in GM+tweaked and 3 rage/day or 13 for just another 1/2 ApR and 4 rage/day).
IMO immunity to imprisonment is way more important as well and it last for a full minute.

And the DR can also be countered by Full Plate (in BG2) as it gives you even more AC against specific attacks, so you are harder to hit anyway and don't have to rely on reducing incoming damage.

I see honestly no reason in the BG-series to have a barbarian. Might be different in IWD2 with the 'new' multi-classing or in NWN2+addons.

Mornmagor

Berserker(enrage) doesn't give negative plane protection.

mlnevese

I just tested the Barbarians and they are rolling a d12 normally for HP.

Itstucktwice

mlnevese said:

I just tested the Barbarians and they are rolling a d12 normally for HP.

Did you test them on level up? They start the game rolling a d12 but never gain more than 10 hp per level up.

mlnevese

Yeap just reduced difficulty and made sure I had no con bonus. 12 points every level until 9 as it should be.

Itstucktwice

Huh. Weird. Will do a fresh install to see if that fixes anything, although I definitely remember hearing other people have the same problem as me.

mlnevese

Make sure you have no 2da file starting with hp in your override folder.

Curmudgeon

Mornmagor said:

Berserker(enrage) doesn't give negative plane protection.

Isn't Immunity to Level Drain the equivalent of Negative Plane Protection?

Mornmagor

Curmudgeon said:

Mornmagor said:

Berserker(enrage) doesn't give negative plane protection.

Isn't Immunity to Level Drain the equivalent of Negative Plane Protection?

What the heck, i thought Berserkers didn't get that in BG2.

How come they get it now?

Pantalion

I remain fascinated to discover how CHARNAME learned the barbaric ways of their Barbarian tribe. Have some of the Readers gone feral?

mlnevese

Barbarian Shamans visiting Candlekeep looking for forgotten lore?

Alsn

Mornmagor said:

Curmudgeon said:

Mornmagor said:

Berserker(enrage) doesn't give negative plane protection.

Isn't Immunity to Level Drain the equivalent of Negative Plane Protection?

What the heck, i thought Berserkers didn't get that in BG2.

How come they get it now?

Berserkers always got immunity to level drain in BG2, not sure if you've played with a mod which changed that or what.

Grulo

I thought Barbarian Rage made you immune to Imprisonment. But according to the OP, only the Berserker's enrage makes you immune. Is this true?

szb

Pantalion said:

I remain fascinated to discover how CHARNAME learned the barbaric ways of their Barbarian tribe. Have some of the Readers gone feral?

"Much to the irritation of your loving foster father, you have always been a wild spirit. Books held no interest for you, nor did disciplined combat. The Watchers spent years wondering what to do with you, untill the fateful day when an Uthgardt barbarian from Icewind Dale delivered an ancient scroll to Candlekeep. The short time she remained had a deep inpact upon you. She taught you the ways of the barbarian, the connection to spirits of nature, and how to unleash wild rages. by the time she left, you knew that you would follow the same path. her visit was several years ago, and ever since then you have found the walls of Candlekeep to be intolerably stifling. "

Curmudgeon

Grulo said:

I thought Barbarian Rage made you immune to Imprisonment. But according to the OP, only the Berserker's enrage makes you immune. Is this true?

The ingame description says otherwise, though I have not tested it.

Curmudgeon

Sorry, the comment I made above is not clear (and I don't know how to edit it).

The ingame description for Berserker Enrage includes Imprisonment; the ingame description for Barbarian Rage does not. Though I have not tested the latter.

Debaser

BESERKER WINS!

Beserker can not only dual class, but a well thought out Beserker Cleric can be tremendously deadly. And a Beserker thief with Grandmastery in a weapon who can back stab after raging is insane. The barbarian to me has some damage resistance advantages but loses out with overall AC bonuses...though the extra hit points probably more than compensate. I've always wondered why it was available as a class since it felt redundant, and overall to be less effective for planning out characters with depth than Berserker. But I guess if you wanted to go with a sling and get the strength bonus as well as weapon proficiencies to specialization it'd be a pretty interesting ranged class. I also prefer the Beserkers Enrage ability since it's a full minute of crazy and offers immunity to imprisonment and level drain which are killers in BG2.

I still think Minsc should be a Berserker BTW.

CaptRory

Barbarians' Damage Resistance wins out at super-high levels where THAC0 becomes very high and AC is less useful. As has been mentioned, you can stack resistance to really boost it up. And the extra HP helps as well as an extra layer of ablative meat basicly.

Granted a berserker could dual class to a mage or cleric and buff the hell out of themselves.

Tresset

Debaser said:

I still think Minsc should be a Berserker BTW.

There was a discussion about that around here somewhere. As far as I'm concerned, he already is a berserker. He's just a specialized ranger version...


I was just thinking about starting the exact same discussion as this B vs. B class. looks like you beat me.