Besides, no matter how kindly you may treat an animal, your final goal is still to kill them and use their meat. I don't know. It's hard for me to give an opinion on this subject, so I'll pass on this one.
And on the same note, we harvest thousands of vegetables and plants everyday....Like I said, it is an emotional connection that kind of creates a double standard - animals are cute, and 'innocent' and have personalizes, and bleed and scream, etc. so killing them is bad. Plants are just...plants, so who cares? What if plants screamed and bled and could show emotion? Would you just not eat anything?
Besides, no matter how kindly you may treat an animal, your final goal is still to kill them and use their meat. I don't know. It's hard for me to give an opinion on this subject, so I'll pass on this one.
And on the same note, we harvest thousands of vegetables and plants everyday....Like I said, it is an emotional connection that kind of creates a double standard - animals are cute, and 'innocent' and have personalizes, and bleed and scream, etc. so killing them is bad. Plants are just...plants, so who cares? What if plants screamed and bled and could show emotion? Would you just not eat anything?
Also, I don't see bacon as pigs having been slaughtered for 'human pleasure'. It's just another shape the meat appears in. Raw meat yields sickness and possibly worms, so yeah, we have to prepare meat somehow to make it edible and healthy.
@DJKajura Please may I enquire if your first language is English?
I like a friendly debate and I do not wish to blind you with science.
1. Leather, the skin of a cow is tough. That is why even lions open up there prey from one tear and opening. Although I would believe as our jaws developed away from a tool for hunting we developed other tools to hunt with to get at the juicy bits. On a side note we did not evolve from apes. They are relatives on our branch on the tree of life, but they are not ancestors. I found out researching my answers here.
2. Apes eat meat. You actually educated me (made me check) the fact is that even gorillas will supplement their diets with meat! The correct scientific term for most apes would be faunivore as they do not eat vegetables or fruit, but mainly grasses and leaves. Vegan, or a vegetarian diet is not copied anywhere by any animal. Meat is too good a source of nutrients.
3. Slaughter houses in the UK need to work under strict enforced rules. Animals are stunned first. They feel nothing. There is a dislocation and erratic knowledge of where food comes from in some countries. Whilst I don't visit slaughterhouses as a teacher I take young children out to skin rabbits and wring chickens. We don't force the children to do it, but it forges the link to where the food comes from. Those that don't want to eat the meat after just get a bread butter bap. Children understand it is their decision and to respect the decisions of others.
4. Have you never picked up a snail? Found a bird's nest? Tickled a fish? Grabbed a crab out a rock pool? Good meat right there! Worms must have been the default meat at one time the number of times I have to stop kids chewing them!
5. Facts always good. I recommend this site http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/comp-anat/comp-anat-2a.shtml as it uses scientific papers that I can locate elsewhere. Seems pretty concerned with getting the love and determination of the vegan dieters out there moving towards more positive action beyond a change of diet that in reality has not saved one animal...
6. If you just don't like meat. That is just fine
7. Sorry @lemernis for completely going off topic. Any luck in adding gherkins to the poll... You know, for the apes out there...
EDIT: Land type varies everywhere. If you live off the side of a mountain, cattle is the best and only food you can produce in quantity as you just can't get the combieharvester up the hill!
@Anduin , all you have written is based on scientific facts and experience, that's for sure. I like a friendly argument , and I didn't mean for it to sound like "you murderers".
However, animal rights is something recent, so to speak, much is overlooked. You mentioned the UK , so I recommend watching Paul McCartney's documentary about slaughterhouses (I don't live in the UK, so forgive me if I lack other suggestions).
And you are correct, it is not only by not eating meat that people will defend an interest. One must study, get involved in politics, understand law , educate and respect others.
I didn't mean to go off topic , so this will be my last post . Others are free to share their opinions, though.
Since i love both, i had to choose other. I do loves me bacon and eggs and toasted muffins with a side of fried tatoes and i have chocolate for desert :-).
considering that sausage beats bacon handily, chocolate has a huge advantage over bacon. Tiny, crispy slivers, no matter how delicious, are just too insubstantial to win. Even after you have eaten every last crumble of bacon, you cannot tell at all.
considering that sausage beats bacon handily, chocolate has a huge advantage. Tiny, crispy slivers, no matter how delicious, are just too insubstantial to win.
I've been vegetarian longer than I've been Buddhist, the only thing bacon would bring me would be digestive troubles and being distinctly skeeved out.
Concerning the various arguments concerning vegetarianism in this thread.... I believe I'll skip that particular trainwreck, though I find the bizarrely important role of meat in modern culture rather interesting in the face of our historical diet as a species.
Red meat is the best source of vitamin b12, a vitamin that's critical in the development of brain cells. Fact. Plus I raise cattle for meat I do like to promote it. I do love me some bacon though.
Red meat is the best source of vitamin b12, a vitamin that's critical in the development of brain cells. Fact. Plus I raise cattle for meat I do like to promote it. I do love me some bacon though.
Actually, shellfish, liver, crab, and lobster all provide richer sources of B12 than beef.
I think having a varied diet is the best for having all necessary nutrients. Including meat and fish.
I do respect vegetarians, though. It is their choice. I have a friend who is vegetarian. We once went to a vegetarian restaurant together and it's actually surprising how varied the dishes were even though they were all kinda limited to vegetables and such. Really enjoyed that time.
@LadyRhian: Just wanted to say congratulations on having made your 4000th(!!!) post! And one involving chocolate, none the less! I should buy you a cake.
I'm an "Ovo-Vegetarian" (Basically a vegan who still consumes milk and eggs), and have been for 10 years. I chose this, because for me it seems like I get all the benefits and none of the negatives.
*I find it much easier to create a healthy diet with pretty much no way to ever get obese or suffer from any other nourishment-related cases. I do take supplements though, but that's hardly a hassle.
*I prefer the taste of greens. It's fresh, juicy, crisp, and has a plethora of flavors. Meat, broadly spoken, tastes the same. I don't hate the taste per say, I just find it too bland. That's my opinion on most processed foods though. And I don't really feel like eating raw meat.
*It's cheaper, provided you grow it yourself (and about the same if you don't). And I'm fairly certain it's easier to plant a small field of parsley, than it is to raise a cow. :P
*Less animals are killed, sure, but it also means less animals are born. So this is actually not one of my reasons. I abhor the state of slaughterhouses, but I still support the general breeding of animals for consumption.
As has been stated, we are omnivores, as well as being on the top of the food chain. We should, and do, eat whatever we fancy. To some extent of course. I can see how one could be considered hypocritical for supporting eating animals, but not fellow humans, but this is just how it is. I can't explain it, nor is it my responsibility to do so.
Like I said, eat whatever you want (within the laws of the government). I like fruits and vegetables (and eggs... god do I love eggs), others like meat, and most like a combination of all. Just don't try to force your way of life on anyone else. This is true for all things. Food, exercise, religion, fashion, hobbies, TV-shows... whatever.
@Zanian: That's a nice argumentation you got there. Fully understand and agree with you, except for some minor things... Humans are still a tiny bit different from animals, afterall. Supporting eating your fellow humans is... Eh. Knowing cannibalism is quite the controversial topic, I'll leave it at that. I always wondered why some vegetarians refuse to eat eggs and drink milk. They don't fall into the 'meat' category and are just things produced by animals, not the animals themselves (knowing the eggs are not fertilized and thus do not contain any little chick embryos). A cow literally needs to be milked. If not, their udders get infected (I think?) and they will suffer from it in general. I therefore don't see how drinking milk and eating eggs could be seen as 'wrong'. On top of that, both products contain essential nutrients especially useful for growing (in the case of little children). Just my opinion. Of course I don't know much about vegetarianism, so pardon me for any ignorance.
@Kitteh_On_A_Cloud Those would be vegans, not vegetarians. ^^ Vegetarians don't eat meat, Vegans don't consume anything that comes from an animal. Then there's a lot of sub-genres between the two. I'm somewhere in the middle I s'pose. Oh, and the cow thing is an urban myth used to discredit vegans. If they aren't milked, they stop making milk. Just like humans.
And yeah, humans are different from animals. Never stated otherwise I don't think. And cannibalism is "wrong" no matter what species you are. Very few animals eat their own kind. Scientifically speaking, the only thing that could possibly explain why, would be our primal desires to continue as a species, and eating our own kind would be a bit detrimental to that cause I guess. ^^ But besides that, there isn't really anything else that speaks against it. You could play the ethics/morality card, but that wouldn't explain why it's "wrong" in the animal kingdom. So it all comes down to our instincts.
And I know how this all sounds, but I'm not pro-cannabalism. Love thy neighbor, but not with gravy. :P
Comments
I like a friendly debate and I do not wish to blind you with science.
1. Leather, the skin of a cow is tough. That is why even lions open up there prey from one tear and opening. Although I would believe as our jaws developed away from a tool for hunting we developed other tools to hunt with to get at the juicy bits. On a side note we did not evolve from apes. They are relatives on our branch on the tree of life, but they are not ancestors. I found out researching my answers here.
2. Apes eat meat. You actually educated me (made me check) the fact is that even gorillas will supplement their diets with meat! The correct scientific term for most apes would be faunivore as they do not eat vegetables or fruit, but mainly grasses and leaves. Vegan, or a vegetarian diet is not copied anywhere by any animal. Meat is too good a source of nutrients.
3. Slaughter houses in the UK need to work under strict enforced rules. Animals are stunned first. They feel nothing. There is a dislocation and erratic knowledge of where food comes from in some countries. Whilst I don't visit slaughterhouses as a teacher I take young children out to skin rabbits and wring chickens. We don't force the children to do it, but it forges the link to where the food comes from. Those that don't want to eat the meat after just get a bread butter bap. Children understand it is their decision and to respect the decisions of others.
4. Have you never picked up a snail? Found a bird's nest? Tickled a fish? Grabbed a crab out a rock pool? Good meat right there! Worms must have been the default meat at one time the number of times I have to stop kids chewing them!
5. Facts always good. I recommend this site http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/comp-anat/comp-anat-2a.shtml as it uses scientific papers that I can locate elsewhere. Seems pretty concerned with getting the love and determination of the vegan dieters out there moving towards more positive action beyond a change of diet that in reality has not saved one animal...
6. If you just don't like meat. That is just fine
7. Sorry @lemernis for completely going off topic. Any luck in adding gherkins to the poll... You know, for the apes out there...
EDIT: Land type varies everywhere. If you live off the side of a mountain, cattle is the best and only food you can produce in quantity as you just can't get the combieharvester up the hill!
However, animal rights is something recent, so to speak, much is overlooked. You mentioned the UK , so I recommend watching Paul McCartney's documentary about slaughterhouses (I don't live in the UK, so forgive me if I lack other suggestions).
And you are correct, it is not only by not eating meat that people will defend an interest. One must study, get involved in politics, understand law , educate and respect others.
I didn't mean to go off topic , so this will be my last post . Others are free to share their opinions, though.
Tiny, crispy slivers, no matter how delicious, are just too insubstantial to win. Even after you have eaten every last crumble of bacon, you cannot tell at all.
Concerning the various arguments concerning vegetarianism in this thread.... I believe I'll skip that particular trainwreck, though I find the bizarrely important role of meat in modern culture rather interesting in the face of our historical diet as a species.
I do respect vegetarians, though. It is their choice. I have a friend who is vegetarian. We once went to a vegetarian restaurant together and it's actually surprising how varied the dishes were even though they were all kinda limited to vegetables and such. Really enjoyed that time.
(unless we're talking about cacao beans, of course
Enjoy.
12000 calories of absolute feel good
I chose this, because for me it seems like I get all the benefits and none of the negatives.
*I find it much easier to create a healthy diet with pretty much no way to ever get obese or suffer from any other nourishment-related cases. I do take supplements though, but that's hardly a hassle.
*I prefer the taste of greens. It's fresh, juicy, crisp, and has a plethora of flavors. Meat, broadly spoken, tastes the same. I don't hate the taste per say, I just find it too bland. That's my opinion on most processed foods though. And I don't really feel like eating raw meat.
*It's cheaper, provided you grow it yourself (and about the same if you don't). And I'm fairly certain it's easier to plant a small field of parsley, than it is to raise a cow. :P
*Less animals are killed, sure, but it also means less animals are born. So this is actually not one of my reasons. I abhor the state of slaughterhouses, but I still support the general breeding of animals for consumption.
As has been stated, we are omnivores, as well as being on the top of the food chain. We should, and do, eat whatever we fancy. To some extent of course. I can see how one could be considered hypocritical for supporting eating animals, but not fellow humans, but this is just how it is. I can't explain it, nor is it my responsibility to do so.
Like I said, eat whatever you want (within the laws of the government). I like fruits and vegetables (and eggs... god do I love eggs), others like meat, and most like a combination of all. Just don't try to force your way of life on anyone else. This is true for all things. Food, exercise, religion, fashion, hobbies, TV-shows... whatever.
Oh, and I prefer chocolate over bacon.
/rant
This is a good one BTW
Oh, and the cow thing is an urban myth used to discredit vegans. If they aren't milked, they stop making milk. Just like humans.
And yeah, humans are different from animals. Never stated otherwise I don't think. And cannibalism is "wrong" no matter what species you are. Very few animals eat their own kind. Scientifically speaking, the only thing that could possibly explain why, would be our primal desires to continue as a species, and eating our own kind would be a bit detrimental to that cause I guess. ^^
But besides that, there isn't really anything else that speaks against it. You could play the ethics/morality card, but that wouldn't explain why it's "wrong" in the animal kingdom.
So it all comes down to our instincts.
And I know how this all sounds, but I'm not pro-cannabalism. Love thy neighbor, but not with gravy. :P