Do you want to dual / multi with the rest of the classes?

Necroblivion

Well, I am not sure how it was at 2ed d&d, but it could be really cool to be able to dual and multi with the rest of the classes (bard, barb, monk, sorc).
What do you guys think?

ryuken87

Yes it would be fun. You can already do it with the barbarian with either Shadowkeeper or G3 Tweaks.

Mordeus

If this would occur then certain multi/dual class combinations would be negated. Particularly the Mage ones, since there would be no point in choosing that over a Sorcerer multi-dual combo. A Barbarian dual class character wouldn't be too far from a fighter kit (like the Berserker), or a Barbarian multi-class would again make the Fighter multi-class combo rather irrelevant.

A Monk/Cleric would be fun but Monks are fairly complex as is. Then with the Bard it is pretty much a Thief/Mage combo anyways. Having Warrior/Bard, Mage/Bards or Thief/Bards would just take away from the point of a Bard being a jack of all trades, master of none.

I rather like having those classes separate from the dual/multi options. However I wouldn't mind giving Monks or Barbarians some kits instead. That would be an easier way to diversify them without getting caught up in the complexities of the dual/multi classes. Afterall the Bard already has three.

A Monk kit could focus on Scimitar wielding over fists like some sort of sword dancer. Or have a Monk kit that allows for some basic Cleric spells for survivability. Whilst a Barbarian kit could be like a Shaman which would be a crude Fighter/Druid giving classes like the Half-Orc or Dwarf some Druid magic. Or have a Barbarian kit in the mould of the Ranger's Archer kit that uses darts or a blowgun to snipe, while having the ability to poison their ammo. Both these Barbarian kits would open up Druid and Ranger like skills to races like the Halflings, Gnomes, Dwarfs and Half-Orcs who have such a limited choice of classes.

Pantalion

I personally would like the whole thing externalised so I can play a Ranger/Mage/Thief, or Ranger/Mage/Cleric, or Monk/Mage, or Monk/Thief, or Sorcerer/Druid, or a Half-Elven Paladin/Mage of Mystra, Bard/Cleric...

And of course, bring in the PnP Multiclass Kitting and kits for second class Duals, and Multiclass Kits (not the same thing as simply having the ability to kit, but actual kits for specific multiclasses) too.

As might be implied, I think little of the multi/dual class restrictions.

SpaceInvader

There should be limits to this.

An example: a lvl1 mage able to learn every possible scroll dualclassed to sorcerer...

Being able to dual/multi-class with chosen kits would be as cool as overpowered

Necroblivion

Of course Sorc / wiz is to take it far away. Unless they have different lists like mage cleric. I cam up with this idea because I want to make a human fighter and then dual to bard.. I think it can be a really cool character.

Chow

Yes, to a point. I'd definitely support adding paladin and bard to the list, and expanding the options for rangers and druids. But on the other hand, monks had no such options available for them in the tabletop, and probably should not here either - neither should sorcerers or barbarians, probably.

I'd also make it possible to dual-class twice or even thrice, if you had the stats.

Necroblivion

According to my 2E rulebook, it say that humans can dual to any class aslong as they have the stats and that they can do it up to 4 times in their lives. While other races can multi quite the same as in BG:EE only that half elves can switch druid with cleric in all of the combos that include a cleric.

iKrivetko

Well, reasonable constraints should apply. But generally, yes.

deltago

only for barb and sorc and only for restrictions limited to fighter/mage respectively.

Rolling something like an Inquisitor/Mage would be too powerful imo

SCARY_WIZARD

Welp, since it was possible in PnP, I don't see why not, here... So yes please Bard/Clerics please yes.

leeho730

It's going to be a hard job.

Even if Beamdog/Overhaul relaxes hard-coded limit, I recon it would only allow limited amount of dual-class freedom compared to unmodded BGEE. Simply, only Ranger/Druid/Fighter/Mage/Thief/Cleric will allow dual-classing to other classes. So Fighter can dual class to Bard but Bard cannot dual class to Fighter.

Sorcerer/Mage or Sorcerer/Bard is impossible both dual and multiclass, but Cleric/Druid is possible (but I guess why bother when Cleric/Ranger is better).

Multiclass, on the other hand, yeah, it may be possible to create many combinations once hard-coded limits are lifted. I want Mage/Cleric/Thief, Fighter/Sorcerer/Thief, Fighter/Bard, Paladin/Mage, Paladin/Sorcerer, Paladin/Cleric, Ranger/Sorcerer, Thief/Sorcerer, Druid/Sorcerer, Monk/Sorcerer etc...

ReadingRambo

Paladin sorcerer is one of my favorite class combinations

Wowo

Necroblivion said:

According to my 2E rulebook, it say that humans can dual to any class aslong as they have the stats and that they can do it up to 4 times in their lives. While other races can multi quite the same as in BG:EE only that half elves can switch druid with cleric in all of the combos that include a cleric.

This would be maximum for me. Possibly scale it back as appropriate which is already in place.

I'd like to see Druid multiclasses added as per rulebook (F/M/D, M/D, D/T) and allow some form of dual classing for those other classes but perhaps the same as kits are at the moment - can start as them and then dual but not vice versa).

Not sure about dualing 3 or 4 times, I think the game would break in more ways than one.

elminster

Just druid/mage, fighter/druid/mage for me thanks.

ZanathKariashi

Yeah, technically speaking a human can dual into any class, but only one from each class pool (Warrior, Rogue, Priest, Wizard), if they have the stats for it (They can still only have 1 kit, though specialist mages are NOT a kit).

Multiclasses are much more restricted, though there are 3 that are missing, all of them for half-elves.

Mage/Druid (requires TN), Fighter/Druid/Mage (requires TN), and Ranger/Druid (Neutral Good only).

And change Specialist mages back into separate classes (as in BG1). They are NOT kits, Specialist Mage is a completely distinct class from a plain Mage in PnP.

Dee

I was going to suggest something exactly like what's in the first paragraph of your post, @ZanathKariashi--there should be multiclass and dual-class options available for every combination of class, with the restriction being that no two classes in a particular build may be from the same class type.

So you could have a Bard/Sorcerer (Rogue/Wizard), or a Barbarian/Monk/Thief (Warrior/Priest/Rogue), but you couldn't have a Cleric/Monk, a Druid/Cleric, or a Bard/Thief.

It would require a redesign of the multiclass UI, though; you'd have to decide first to multiclass, then either two or three classes, and then you'd have to select the class for each part.

Then the Dual-class UI would follow the same format, but with the assumption that you're using two classes and have already chosen the first.

---
The trouble with a request like this is that the way multiclass works right now, each multiclass combination is essentially a class unto itself. It's not a product of taking two classes and mashing them together; it's a product of a design team looking at the multiclass combination and deciding how it would work.

So to effectively incorporate new combinations, you'd also need to redesign the way multiclass works--or else design each combination separately.

The_New_Romance

I'm waiting for Beamdog to announce this since March. I want to dual-class from Barbarian to Sorcerer, dammit. Or have a Ranger/Druid multiclass. Or dual into a kit.

I'd even be okay with combinations that tabletop doesn't allow. 3E allowed everything, and while it became ridiculous in some cases, I liked that general approach. If something is too far-fetched for my tastes, I won't have to use it, but those who like a Monk/Bard, by all means go ahead.

ZanathKariashi

I don't know...multiclasses are resticted by design, since you reap the full benefits from both classes at once, while dual-class you only develop so far then stop growing.

I'm fine with adding the missing Multiclasses, since they're allowed in actual PnP, but not opening it up to further combinations. Other then maybe allowing certain classes to take a kit, since the complete thieves guide actually does say that multiclassed thieves can use thief kits. The complete fighter on the other hand doesn't allow multiclassed fighters to use fighter kits (since they get lesser weapon specialization which multi's normally aren't supposed to get). The complete mage says multi-classed or plain mages can use mage kits, but specialists can't since their magical focus prevents further magical specialization, but on the other hand, they aren't kits so a Gnome T/Ilusionist could take a thief kit. A human Kensai could dual into a specialist, with no problems, but if they decided to add a rogue or priest class, they couldn't apply a new kit that class, since they already have one for their fighter levels. It does say that a character can only have a single kit.


And especially with the xp caps in place, triple, quadruple dual-classes will be abysmally low level for the first few classes, not to mention the down times in involved (as per normal DC rules, you'd lose all abilities till your newest class was 1 level higher then your previously highest class).

And alignment restrictions would further halt some dualclasses, since a Paladin could never take any rogue class, due to the fact none of them can be lawful good, nor could they become a druid since druids need to be true neutral. And some kits would be further restricted as well, (no berserker/Monks).


(Though yes, R/D is a legit combination, despite being Neutral Good only, but only for a multiclass. It requires the half-elf be raised from birth in both traditions, with a good nature deity patron that has both ranger and druid followers, i.e. Mieliki for FR, and falling results in the permanent loss of ALL their abilities (though technically all multiclass druids are supposed to be lvl capped at 13 Druid, since they lack the necessary devotion to be part of the Upper Druid Hierarchy which is tied to lvls 14-16)).