Archer weapon proficiencies
Wilbur
Member Posts: 1,173
Is there any point in giving my MC archer profs in both short and longbows (other than RP)? I was thinking of using mainly longbows and composite bows anyway. Isn't APR the same with short and long bows too?
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My ranger is an elf too and has one pip in longswords also. I think I'll take some one handed blunt profiency next. I'm gonna use dual wielding since archer (being a ranger) is naturally good at that.
I think one handed weapon + style for AC boost is more useful to the archer than two handed + style myself since they are limited in armor already.
Most skeletal enemies have 40% resistance to slashing, 50% resistance to piercing, and 65% resistance to missile damage. Even with a damage bonus vs them, blunt weapons are simply better since they deal full damage per strike...and almost no enemies have resistance or greater AC vs blunt, except those with resistance to all physical damage.
The only sucky part is that there are no ranged weapons or ammo that deal blunt damage (they all deal Missile (piercing) + occasionally an element or poison)...even the dwarven thrower war-hammer deals Missile (piercing), when thrown.
The Gesen bow is a short bow though.
Of course, if you have other party members that can benefit from using shortbows (e.g. Imoen, etc.) you can also stick with longbows for CHARNAME.
I see scimitars as an ideal choice for him. It could be one of Drizzt's scimitars for an additional AC (in BG1) or (in BG2) Belm for an additional attack. And elven bonus works well with scimitars to compensate only one available pip in this melee weapon for an archer.
You'd also argue that going x-bow is a valid solution (Firetooth), as the missing extra attack is made up by the huge damage bonus and it's counted as a +6 weapon (or +7 upgraded) to determine 'what-it-can-hit'. Only if not used with additional ammunition, but that's fixed in one of the current packs anyway.
Though the to-hit stuff is only more important in ToB (+Watchers Keep), where you'll find more basic +1/+2 immunities. As a lot of player stick only to the SoA campaign Bows + quiver are fine.
However, I personally don't like getting stuff from Watcher's Keep too early, because I believe it unbalances the game making it less challenging, but that's just me.
The speedy shortbow is really good at the very beginning, but assuming they keep the extra attack for Grandmastery in BG2EE, you'll pass the 5 attack per round cap by level 13 and be missing out on your full potential with an Archer (it's great for any thieves or thief/mages in the group though). The 5 attack per round cap is actually what gives crossbows (and slings) an opportunity to close the gap with bow users. 2 APR weapons will get up to 4.5 APR for a level 13+ grandmaster, meaning they only get half the benefit of a haste spell before hitting the cap, whereas 1 APR crossbows get up to 3.5 APR and can then be hasted for 4.5 APR. When the attack gap is that small, the damage bonuses that high end crossbows (such as Giant's Hair or Firetooth) get really start to shine.
I'm just glad they boosted the quiver size in BGEE, as that really helps with ammo management.
Edit: Level 9 Fighter with 5 pips in Bastard Swords gets 5/2 attacks. That's 1 + .5 (level 7) + .5 (specialization) = 2, so grand mastery is giving 1, not 1.5. Which means a grand total of +2 attacks for an experienced Fighter/Archer with Grandmastery. So the Tuigan still has to worry about the cap if you haste your archer from time to time, but the normal longbows/shortbows won't be clipping the cap, which changes the equation a bit. At that point, it becomes a comparison of 5 attacks with the bow vs. 4 attacks with the crossbow.
Heartseeker: 1d6+2+5 = 10.5 average damage per shot (same for light crossbow of speed)
Giant Hair Crossbow (picked for an easy to get SoA xbow): 1d8+5+5 = 14.5 damage per shot
Firetooth +5: 1d8+7+5 = 16.5 per shot
Let's assume bonuses for a level 18 Archer (i.e. +6 damage)
Gesen = 87.5 per round
Heartseeker = 82.5
Giant Hair = 82
Firetooth = 90
Archer bonuses cap out at +9 at level 33, which gives:
Gesen = 102.5
Heartseeker = 97.5
Giant Hair = 94
Firetooth = 102
So as your number of attacks increases, crossbows get better and better, but the damage bonus from the Archer kit eventually evens that out in slight favor of Gesen. Note that this is while hasted. At cap without haste, Gesen is avg. 82 damage to Firetooth's 76.5, and Improved Haste keeps Gesen in the lead (though Greater Whirlwind, of course, favors Firetooth). Heartseeker actually keeps up well with Firetooth either unhasted or with Improved Haste, but doesn't have the damage bonus to keep up with Gesen, and unfortunately damage bonuses on longbows all but disappear in ToB.
Magical ammunition's damage bonuses would pitch this further in favor of bows, but then we get into the wonky ammunition stacking of Gesen and Firetooth and there's no point in even comparing to other weapons. The Quiver of Plenty +2 is enough to put Heartseeker ahead of Gesen using its magical ammunition, though, so if you feel that ammunition stacking is cheesy and want the most Archer damage possible, Heartseeker is the way to go.
Edit2: Silly me, I forgot the damage bonus for Grandmastery, numbers and conclusions adjusted.
(http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy284/valky667/apr_zpse302f30c.jpg - oh and add 1 ApR, cause it was from another discussion involving melee weapons, so she is wielding a Longsword)
Further crossbows base ApR is set to 1, so the user should get 3 (using BGEE rules) or 7/2 (using the old GM rules) - that's the same as wielding a 1/2-handed weapon at lvl 13 with 5 pips, see pic ^^
Dunno, where you get your 4 ApR with an x-bow from?!
That said, I just went in and adjusted the numbers, because I failed my INT roll and didn't include the damage bonuses for grandmastery.
If you elect to put the gauntlets of extraordinary specialization (and/or you use the old GM rules) on your Archer, then things skew slightly in favor of crossbows, both due to the APR cap and due to the fact that additive APR bonuses reduce the proportional advantage of bows (as opposed to Improved Haste, which preserves the proportion of attacks). If you use the gauntlets of weapon expertise, the damage bonus favors bows. Are there any other applicable damage or APR bonuses usable by bows/crossbows that I'm forgetting?
Imp. haste doubles all attacks and ignores the 5ApR hardcoded limit, so in late SoA it's arguable preferable over haste ^^
My current haste also only rounds up if I have 3/2..5/2 and so on, might be from a mod or I never really paid attention to that spell.
[Or you are referring to the buggy boots of speed ^^ then it would make sense, cause the haste effect was not intended that way and they should only provide 2x movement rate. Else I'd love to see the PnP boots instead..but some of my mods changed them anyway, so am fine with]