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New Kit: Vampiric Monk

Monk description (scroll down): http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/kits.php#9

Has all advantages and disadvantages of a normal monk except the following:

Advantages:
-Each hit has a 5% chance of level draining the opponent by 2 levels, healing the user by 2d6 hp (cant go above max hp). No saving throw or magic resistance
-Immune to level drain
-Drain Punch at lvl 13: Once per day, if the opponent is hit in the next attack, the opponent is level drained by 2 levels, healing the user by 2d6 hp (cant go above max hp). No saving throw or magic resistance

Disadvantages:
-+4 penalty to thaco, damage and AC during daytime above ground (anywhere exposure to sunlight)
-Does not gain magic resistance like normal monks. Instead gains cold resistance (at same levels and same percentage)
-No Quivering Palm
-Must be evil
Anton

Comments

  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,867
    edited January 2013
    A passive chance for level drain is way too much, even at only 5%.

    Same as a normal Monk except

    Advantages-

    Stunning Blow replaced with Draining Strike, rate of acquisition changed to 1 per 8 levels, starts with 1 use. Each attack in the next round deals 1d4 magical damage per 2 levels (to a max of 5d4) and heals the monk for the damage dealt with no save, ignores magic resistance. Save vs death at +3 on-hit or lose 1 level. Targets with Negative plane protection (or immunity to level drain) are immune to both the both effects.

    Level 7: Regeneration 1 hp per round. Only effective at night or underground (certain indoor areas can count as underground). Replaces Lay on Hands. Increases to 2 per round at 14, 3 per round at 21, 4 per round at 28, 5 per round at 35.

    Level 9: Immunity to Level Drain, in addition to other benefits.

    12: Gaseous Form contingency: (Gained automatically when resting), when reduced to 20% or less hp, instantly assume gaseous form clearing all harmful effects, and granting 6 hp/ second regeneration and complete immunity to all damage and effects for 1 round, Gaseous form cannot attack. Only functions 1/day. In addition to other benefits for this level.

    Level 13: Immunity to normal weapons. Only effective at night or underground.


    Level 14: Gains 30% magic resistance at Night or underground, and 3% resistance to cold and electrical damage per level (Caps at 80%).

    20: Immunity to +1 and lower weapons. Only effective at night or underground.


    Disadvantages- Same as monks except
    Cannot be good
    Takes 10% more damage from Fire spells
    -1 penalty to hit/damage/ac during the day, unless underground. Penalty increases by 1 per 4 levels, to a maximum of -6 at 20.
    Healing spells and items are only half as effective (doesn't apply to healing from Draining strike, Gaseous form or regeneration).
    Post edited by ZanathKariashi on
    AntonKushutoanwrath
  • bbearbbear Member Posts: 1,180
    I disagree about the 5% passive chance is op. Even if it works once every 20 atks, the effect is only 2 levels. I doubt you can land more than twice on 1 enemy passively. For the disadvantage, I exchange MR for cold resistance, which is a huge compensation compare w/ a normal monk.

    I like your suggestions, but I think simplicity is preferable than a lot of additional rules. Gaseous form is actually very op unless you get 1 shot by opponent.
  • EdvinEdvin Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,756
    edited January 2013
    There is little problem...
    You can´t be vampire and live on sun.
    NEVER ! No exception.

    No vampire = no live steal

    Also vampires don´t have soul.
    You can´t be Child of Bhaal if you don´t have soul.

    ( Do not even dare think about " Mind flayer monk " )
    Post edited by Edvin on
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 7,783
    Edvin said:

    ( Do not even dare think about " Mind flayer monk " )

    A worthy project at last! Now we need a volunteer to create one ;)
    Anton
  • SirK8SirK8 Member Posts: 527
    I'm not sure how CHARNAME being undead could work into the story.... maybe an NPC like this with a back story or Rasaad dying somehow and being raised as vampire with a twisted mind and set on vengeance...
    toanwrath
  • EdvinEdvin Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,756
    SirK8 said:

    Rasaad dying

    I like this part :D
  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 923
    Edvin said:

    There is little problem...
    You can´t be vampire and live on sun.
    NEVER ! No exception.

    No vampire = no live steal

    Also vampires don´t have soul.
    You can´t be Child of Bhaal if you don´t have soul.

    ( Do not even dare think about " Mind flayer monk " )


    Um, nobody can survive on the sun. We'd all be incinerated or radiationally poisoned long before we even encroach upon its surface.
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
    [Deleted User]
  • EdvinEdvin Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,756
    edited January 2013
    Official source:

    " There are two known efficient ways to destroy a vampire permanently. One, is to immerse a vampire in naturally running water (such as a river). Doing this causes it to lose one third of its hit points each round until it is finally destroyed (in other words, it can only survive for three rounds). The last, is exposing the vampire to direct sunlight. Upon first exposure, the vampire is disoriented and can only make a single move action, or attack action before it is destroyed utterly. "


    BTW: Try cast " False sunrise " to some vampires in BG2.
    It is VERY effective...
    SwordsNotWords
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,867
    edited January 2013
    You wouldn't be a true vampire, just a human monk that reveres vampires and has learned to mimic some of their qualities (using your Ki to drain life force, and aligning your Ki to darkness to bolster your abilities, but at the same time becoming weaker in the presence of light, as well as an affinity to negative energy that protects you from their draining effects but causes positive spell or magic item based healing to be less effective).
    toanwrath
  • EdvinEdvin Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,756

    You wouldn't be a true vampire, just a human that reveres vampires and has learned to mimic some of their qualities.

    We have name for that:

    "" Vampire Minion ""

    Humans who was bitten by Vampire but not killed or transformed to vampire. They share little vampire power, but they don´t need drink blood to surrive ( but they like drinking blood :D ). They also don´t like sun. But unfortunately they MUST serve their vampire masters and when master die they are really f**ck.

  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,867
    Nah, that's some shmuck who doesn't have any real power of their own. A vampiric monk would use their own strength of will to replicate the effects. Normal monks become supernatural beings at lvl 20, so the vampiric monk would simply trade general purpose ass-kicking, for faster supernatural progression, but only during the night or in darkness, since they've overspecialized their Ki to do so.
    Antontoanwrath
  • EdvinEdvin Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,756
    Very well.

    Can you explain me how exactly is possible " mimic " divine curse ? :D
    Can your " Chuck Norris Monk " mimic also gods power and be ruler of universe ?
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,867
    edited January 2013
    Vampirism is not a curse. Mummy rot and lycanthropy are curses. Vampirism is a result of dying while being suffused with a large quantity of negative energy via a vampire's bite or slam. All creatures that have level drain, such as wights, shadows, wraiths, bodaks (Bodaks don't drain levels, anyone who dies of their death gaze becomes a bodak), reproduce in this fashion. The negative energy remains in the body after death and over a period of days twists and reanimates the body in the manner of the type of creature that turned them, making them slaves to their creator. Consecrating the ground at burial and perform holy rights while preparing the body, can prevent this from happening. It usually only occurs if a whole party is wiped out, or the living members are forced to flee and can't recover the body in time.

    In the case of Vampires, depending on the HD of the victim, they become a spawn (very weak, vampires with several extra weaknesses and few vampiric abilities, that dies if it's creator does), or true but still sub-servant vampires (who regain their original will (but have shifted to an evil alignment, though they can change over time if they wish) if their master is destroyed). It's possible for a spawn to become a true vampire if they live long enough to raise their HD enough to cross the threshold point.

    You aren't replicating vampirism exactly, you're replicating the idea of it. Using Ki to drain life force of other beings to strengthen your own, by attuning your Ki to negative energy and darkness. This overspecialization allows for quicker growth into a supernatural existence, but also resulting in reduced strength during the day as well as a lowering the effectiveness of beneficial spells that rely on positive energy. You're not a being suffused with direct negative energy as undead are, so it doesn't harm you, but your attunement to negative energy does make such spells much less effective then they should be.

    The monk's quivering palm is actually MUCH different in PnP then it is in BG. The if the initial save fails, the monk can will the target to die at any time with no save, within 1 month of being hit by the attack, no matter how far away the target runs, and it by-passes most magical protections against instant death, since it's not magic. This of course has no use in BG, but in PnP could be used to force someone to help with a particular course of action, but are too valuable to kill if it can be avoided.

    Also, yes, yes monks can indeed mimic the powers of gods and divine beings ( I personally find the idea retarded myself, but that's how the game treats them...so..what can you do?). It's merely a matter of having enough levels. In PnP, ANY character that goes beyond level 30 has begun to walk the road toward divinity, which requires them to either find a divine sponsor, or have the power to take the strength from a demi-god or very high powered demon. (Bane, Bhaal, and Mykrul when they were mortal destroyed a lesser god of ice elementals and split it's divinity between themselves, before they went to challenge Jergal, one of the most powerful gods of that age. (You can read about it in depth in the book The Dead Three, which can be found in BG1).
    iKrivetko
  • EdvinEdvin Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,756
    edited January 2013
    Read D&D rules !!!

    " To become a vampire one must be afflicted by vampirism, vampirism is not a disease. It is a curse, a curse that infects and transforms its victims. Vampirism affects each victim to a varied degree. "

    Also, yes, yes monks can indeed mimic the powers of gods and divine beings.

    No they can´t " mimic " gods even demigods power. Hight level monks are only extremly powerfull MORTALS who can unlock all their mind and body potencial. But there is always line what they can´t overstep.

    " Demigods, are considered the first rung on the ladder of the gods. Demigods are true immortal deities and capable of granting spells. A demigod typically has only a handful of clerics and roughly 300 to 3,000 worshipers that typically pray to a deity of such power. A demigod may create and control a small realm (generally within one of the Outer Planes) that can be shaped and controlled as the demigod wishes. Additionally, the demigod has a small ability to shape reality in regard to his or her portfolio as it relates to mortal life, become extraordinary in some skill related to his or her portfolio, and extend his or her senses to a mile away from an avatar or any holy sites dedicated to him or her. "
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,113
    That is way too powerful - insanely so.

    The first time you get access to level drain in games is as a level 9 spell.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,867
    edited January 2013
    Ahem, "READ D&D RULES !!!"

    I've been binge on 2nd edition rules for several days, rest assured, I've read them, Ravenloft's vampire rules have no place what so ever in Forgotten realms due to the fact that that Demi-plane of Dread is self-contained (it technically exists in the same cosmology of most 2nd edition settings, but has different rules for things like Vampirism and such which can indeed be inflicted by a curse or by being drained by a vampire...of course Ravenloft Vampires are also immune to sunlight once they exceed 10 HD...it weakens them by preventing most use of their powers, but can't kill them). FR uses the standard core book's vampire rules. Vampirism is only spread when a victim dies of a vampire's energy drain and doesn't receive proper rites to purge the negative energy.


    Also, as said before, you're reading too much into this. They aren't replicating a vampire's exact abilities, they're using their Ki to mimic certain aspects of them. If having 30 days to will someone to die after punching them once isn't ridiculously over the top, I don't know what is (and that is literally how the quivering palm works, the BG version just assumes you will them to die immediately). Specializing your ki to steal other people's life force (aka..Ki), is child's play. Stunning blow already forces the user's ki into the subjects body disrupting their Ki to freeze their movement (it's not pressure points or other crap like that), the draining blow would instead of restricting movement, literally siphon their Ki away, and since Ki is life force, it would strength the monk (healing) while weakening the subject (damaging, and potentially weakening them permanently if they have a weaker body, the chance for level drain).

    Other then thematic similarities (forcefully drawing strength from others via synthesized negative energy, and hyper-specializing their ki to a particular environment, ie darkness which also includes weakness and loss of most of their specialized powers in light) , the vampiric monk has NOTHING to do with vampires. (that gaseous form is actually LESS powerful in a lot of ways then ability normal monks get to phase temporary into the ethereal plane (which in PnP includes the ability to walk through most walls, and fly if they desire for as long as they can maintain the effect, which they can for so many rounds per day based on level, split up as they choose).

    Also, it says pretty clearly (the high level rules book), any character that progression beyond lvl 30, has begun the steps towards godhood, slowly growing in power as they complete various tasks and such to prove their worth, gaining various lesser divine abilities the closer they get to 40, at which point they become a Demi-god level deity.

    Monk's can exceed the limits of their physical bodies, becoming supernatural beings at lvl 20, they start getting a host of abilities, like being able to shift themselves briefly to other planes and other such things, they also stop the process of aging (though can still die when their time is up, if they don't seek means to extend it). So, they actually have a bit of a head start over other classes, since unlike a mage, their abilities are almost exclusively constantly in effect or usable through strength of will and are completely independent of magic. (the Monk is a somewhat annoying case as the one in BG is heavily drawn from the 3rd edition Monk, rather then the 2nd edition oriental adventures or 1st edition monks)

    @ajwz
    Technically you gain access to level drain at level 7 (4th spell level), but the spell isn't implemented. (Drains 1 level, no save, and a target that dies of it is animated as a zombie equal to half their HD, to a minimum of one).
    Post edited by ZanathKariashi on
  • KushuKushu Member Posts: 70
    @ZanathKariashi: I love that first proposal you offer. I think it's a real step in the right direction for how I envision this sort of character concept. Someone who studies negative energy, who practices a twisted--and some would say "Forbidden"--form of Ki/chi. Who eschews typical monastic teachings in favor of the inspiration and affinity he finds in one of the most dangerous predators on the planet. The Vampire.

    Although I'd probably take out the "Daylight/Nighttime" stuff. For me, that stuff seems like more of a "Minor Inconvenience" than a gameplay-defining disadvantage. You're just going to sleep through the day, right? Not a huge deal. There aren't a whole lot of timed things in the game.
    In addition to the Half-Healing you suggested, I'm not sure what I'd take from him. I toyed with the idea of taking some of the monk basics, like Immunity to Poison/Disease/Charm, but they feel like they'd fit thematically with his goal.

    Perhaps his suffusion of negative energy registers him as Undead for a few spells where it matters. Sunray and False Dawn. Perhaps Turn/Destroy Undead damages him for every round he remains in the area. The problem being these aren't really used by enemies, are they? Maybe we'll have to take away all positive energy healing.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,867
    I originally considered making it vulnerable to spells and items that effect undead...but how often are those used against you? Why bother casting them in the first place when you have a negative energy immune, nigh invulnerable dervish of death and destruction to kill such undead for you (or you have someone equipped with the IMoD who can demolish thousands of undead without breaking a sweat)? That would be even less of an inconvenience then the day/night weakness.

    I suppose you could make them completely unhealable by spells or potions, relying exclusively on their regeneration and Draining strikes to keep them alive, with the gaseous form as a last ditch "OH $%#^" button to hopefully save your life.

    The day/night thing is only overpowered if you abuse rest, which makes EVERYTHING overpowered, and if you're gonna cheese, you're gonna cheese, so there's no point in even bother to consider the stupidly broken crap players can come up with...as said before many times before, you're not competing with anyone and ultimately only cheating yourself out of a challenge if you do crap like that.


    I try and stat and balance my kits, classes, and mechanics under the assumption you're working with a by-books DM, who enforces the rules as close as humanly possible within the system, and isn't afraid to let you die if you did something stupid like memorizing a page full of Magic Missiles, when debuff or buff spells would've saved your life, or rendered you useless after you blew all your spell in the first 3 rooms of a 28 room dungeon where resting would be impossible.

    obviously though, the stats are just a draft...I tend to come back and make minor tweaks here and there after testing, to try and ensure that nothing is too broken....I mean hell, as long as it's less broken then the F'ing berserker, aka the most broken class in the game, I'm doing ok. (though where possible I try to stat things as close to their PnP counterparts, if/where possible).

    For instance, here's a few rebalances and additional kits I'd like to see some day either officially or in a mod for bards.

    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/224600/#Comment_224600
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