@Heya I agree with your touch on playing a CRPG for the first time, you are right, back then those numbers made no sense, it was all about immersion. But what about playing times after times and taking it for a P&P CRPG. What makes great BG is the replaybility. Have you tried playing it as a no-reload challenge. When a DM would call end of game if the main character dies. Would then every Attack Per Round count? Would disrupting mages with missiles attacks count? Finish the game several times in a normal game and then try a no-reload challenge. Would you present the same argument?
The bug is already reported and was recognized as a major bug.
Are you claiming the bug introduced by the latest patch is not a game breaking bug? How many times have you played the original game? Do you know how important are APR for ranged weapons?
Umm nope, not new to the game at all and no it is not a game breaking bug. The game is still playable. I just finished playing for an hour with the bug. You know how I played with the bug, I adapted my strategy with it. Annoying maybe, game breaking no. I also pointed out that it is being fixed. If they ignored these things and offer an update once every two months, then I might consider it a huge issue. They don't so it's not.
What strikes me is that you are so blindly defending Beamdog, while any decent software development company would have had some kind of basic QA department that wouldn't have left pass the kind of bugs that currently exists. When I have launched BG:EE for the first time, hours after the release, I have noticed the wrong tooltip on the new button in the left. Not a big deal from a gameplay perspective, but me, as a customer, discover this in several minutes after launching the game means they have no QA at all.
I don't know how many different people need to tell you this. I know it has been brought to your attention before, but I am going to do it again because you are blindly ignoring this point everytime someone mentions it to you:
Overhaul IS TINY. The company has, what 12 people working for it? They do not have the resources nor the staff to have a QA department (yet). Do you know who was responsible for the QA of this game before release? People who volunteered their time and expertise.
You need to stop comparing this company to either indy (because they are not) or larger gaming companies. They are not. No other company would even attempt to do this. Overhaul had to cut through a crap load of red tape to even attempt to start this project. They are a start up with a very ambition goal.
Things that were missed are being fixed. As I said before, these things being fixed can cause other things to go boom. These things are brought to their attention and they are fixed as soon as possible.
Nevertheless, it seems any criticism brought to Beamdog is met with flak so it's kinda fighting the windmills here. What can I say, enjoy your game! Me, a long time BG fan, remain saddened that a potential great resurrection of the series is getting this treatment.
I repeat, after many other patches I believe the game will be as it was intended on the first release, but Beamdog showed they could hardly meet the most basic standards for the task they have undertaken, so I hope they are denied rights for BG3 until they prove they are worthy to go forth with this franchise (yes, I prefer for BG3 not to be made instead of being the atrocity Fallout 3 was for the Fallout series)
This treatment? You mean the constant updates, the added... stuff... in patches, the quick responses to any issue being brought to their attention. You're right, it is horrible.
And too late, they already have the rights for BG3, the question is if they are going to do it. And so far it is looking like a go, so I guess you won't be playing it. Too bad. I will enjoy all three games. I believe their is no better company to do it since you have one of the original founders leading the charge.
You have yet to make one concrete argument to defend your position.
When you get called on it you resort to pathetic subject changing, straw man, or attempts at humor that fall flat on your face. The reason for this is that you can't defend your position.
Since your actions admit that your position can't be defended, you actually ARE conceding that BG:EE is better. You just didn't realize it.
@gunman: Well, look at that. The pot calling the kettle black, I see. You know, if I am a 'blind beamdog fangirl', you are just the same, only this time a 'blind BGT/Original BG fanboy'.
There are shit loads of bugs in every single game that comes out. It would cost too much to fix them all, especially for launch. Same goes for all software, there is no such thing as bug free software.
Not to mention, the APR bug was caused by a new item - the chesley crusher - with a new feature (to restrict apr regardless of anything else). The bug is squashed, and the modders will get a new opcode feature which will let them set the apr without letting receive bonuses. The ranged items set the apr but they still let you receive other bonuses as intended. So the engine just became better, this bug didn't kill it, it made it stronger!
You won't have this feature in BGT, unless Ascension64 is kind enough to add the feature into ToBEx.
I remember back in the day, after spending a happy 100+ hours of adventuring, sitting back in my chair and reminiscing about about exactly what it was that Baldur's Gate so great.
Was it the depth of the story, world and characters? The epic tactical challenges and the sheer sense of achievement that I was a god now, and deserved it?
No, the greatness of Baldurs Gate was the correct calculation of a character's Attacks Per Round attribute while hasted, that came in a fixpack after I'd already finished it, so I actually hated Baldur's Gate when I first played it, it was a buggy POS, in fact. It became an instant classic when they correctly calculated a character's Attacks Per Round attribute while hasted in a mod released years later, and God himself agrees with me.
This is the funniest part, which Gunman especially should read twice. Either he was fine playing playing "broken" vanilla BG1 or did he wait until modders fixed long after BioWare had stopped patching the game.
@Heya I agree with your touch on playing a CRPG for the first time, you are right, back then those numbers made no sense, it was all about immersion. But what about playing times after times and taking it for a P&P CRPG. What makes great BG is the replaybility. Have you tried playing it as a no-reload challenge. When a DM would call end of game if the main character dies. Would then every Attack Per Round count? Would disrupting mages with missiles attacks count? Finish the game several times in a normal game and then try a no-reload challenge. Would you present the same argument?
It's just that the sheer granularity of your argument is a bit ridiculous. You're arguing the game is legit broken because of a slight mistake in a sub-feature of a sub-feature of a sub-feature. Surely if you're looking at any game in this kind of detail you will find inconsistencies and oversights, especially one as complex as BG. It'll probably be sorted in a couple of weeks anyway now you'e raised it, no need to be nasty about it.
Whatever Beamdog is, it is very unwise to blame or hate them on anything. After all they are improving the game we all like. And with luck we will see more quality DLCs, adventures, and everyone is happy. In the best case scenario leading to a resurrection of 2ed and isometric rpgs.
Not to mention, the APR bug was caused by a new item - the chesley crusher - with a new feature (to restrict apr regardless of anything else). The bug is squashed, and the modders will get a new opcode feature which will let them set the apr without letting receive bonuses. The ranged items set the apr but they still let you receive other bonuses as intended.
@Avenger_teambg - I'm lost, as I'm not sure about the specifics of the APR issue. However, it appears that you are sure and (if I'm reading htis correctly) ranged weapon APR is a fixed bug (or to be fixed with next patch).
When I heard BG:EE was coming out for iPad, I went and downloaded the GOG version of BG1/2 and installed a mod where they both played as 1 game, I just couldn't get into it, the widescreen mod didn't scale correctly, was hard on the eyes and I hate playing windowed, BG was good on my 586pc with a 800x600 crt monitor... it sucks even with mods on any new computer. Now I have BGEE on my laptop and my ipad, the laptop version is just to test builds and modify portraits.
Whatever. I'm just happy some person has been courageous enough to give a look at an old game again. Nowadays it's just the game industry pumping out sequel after sequel after sequel. As if that is any better.
Quite a few of those modders would disagree with you, or they wouldn't be on board with EE and assisting it.
Thus destroying your entire point.
Have a nice day.
You too, but this doesn't destroy any point. It's irrelevant. (In any case, why wouldn't modders have allowed their work to be used? They had no foreknowledge of what a mess the EE would become.)
You can get the important improvements for which Ostner & co charge money from the mods that were used in the EE but originally released for free, as well as great stuff like SCS that isn't included in the EE. Further, you can get more new content than is included in the EE if new areas, quests or crap teensy romance fanfiction are your thing. Again, without being charged for work that was originally published for free, without having to suffer the disgusting blur filtered graphics, purple user interfaces or the loads of new bugs.
Whatever. I'm just happy some person has been courageous enough to give a look at an old game again. Nowadays it's just the game industry pumping out sequel after sequel after sequel. As if that is any better.
Granted that uninspired sequels aren't the greatest, but I can't see why that makes the equally uninspired attempt to cash in on other people's work any more commendable, especially when we're talking about a classic game long tweaked to perfection by an active community, not some sort of forgotten gem only now rediscovered.
Comments
I agree with your touch on playing a CRPG for the first time, you are right, back then those numbers made no sense, it was all about immersion.
But what about playing times after times and taking it for a P&P CRPG. What makes great BG is the replaybility.
Have you tried playing it as a no-reload challenge. When a DM would call end of game if the main character dies. Would then every Attack Per Round count? Would disrupting mages with missiles attacks count?
Finish the game several times in a normal game and then try a no-reload challenge. Would you present the same argument?
Overhaul IS TINY. The company has, what 12 people working for it? They do not have the resources nor the staff to have a QA department (yet). Do you know who was responsible for the QA of this game before release? People who volunteered their time and expertise.
You need to stop comparing this company to either indy (because they are not) or larger gaming companies. They are not. No other company would even attempt to do this. Overhaul had to cut through a crap load of red tape to even attempt to start this project. They are a start up with a very ambition goal.
Things that were missed are being fixed. As I said before, these things being fixed can cause other things to go boom. These things are brought to their attention and they are fixed as soon as possible. Once again, the whole game is not broken. Just your expectations. There is a difference. This treatment? You mean the constant updates, the added... stuff... in patches, the quick responses to any issue being brought to their attention. You're right, it is horrible.
And too late, they already have the rights for BG3, the question is if they are going to do it. And so far it is looking like a go, so I guess you won't be playing it. Too bad. I will enjoy all three games. I believe their is no better company to do it since you have one of the original founders leading the charge.
You used far too much logic and reason on a scarecrow.
No brain, and much like him, the content of his arguments are straw man.
When you get called on it you resort to pathetic subject changing, straw man, or attempts at humor that fall flat on your face. The reason for this is that you can't defend your position.
Since your actions admit that your position can't be defended, you actually ARE conceding that BG:EE is better. You just didn't realize it.
The bug is squashed, and the modders will get a new opcode feature which will let them set the apr without letting receive bonuses. The ranged items set the apr but they still let you receive other bonuses as intended.
So the engine just became better, this bug didn't kill it, it made it stronger!
You won't have this feature in BGT, unless Ascension64 is kind enough to add the feature into ToBEx.
Quite a few of those modders would disagree with you, or they wouldn't be on board with EE and assisting it.
Thus destroying your entire point.
Have a nice day.
You can get the important improvements for which Ostner & co charge money from the mods that were used in the EE but originally released for free, as well as great stuff like SCS that isn't included in the EE. Further, you can get more new content than is included in the EE if new areas, quests or crap teensy romance fanfiction are your thing. Again, without being charged for work that was originally published for free, without having to suffer the disgusting blur filtered graphics, purple user interfaces or the loads of new bugs.