Weapon proficiencies for F/M/T?
ar057
Member Posts: 9
What might be the most favored weapon proficiencies for a fighter/mage/thief? Would two-weapon style or single-weapon be preferred? I'm planning on choosing an elf so I'll likely choose longswords at the very least. Thoughts?
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That said, do whatever you want.
Better style (in my opinion): Two weapon style (but in the harder battles I suggest you to use Defender + shield)
When it comes to the actual proficiencies I'd say it's all about how you plan to use the Mage class. If you are going to use your spells to enhance your fighting (Invis, Detect Invis, Haste, Slow, etc...) pick a melee weapon. Having the ability to Invis and then backstab is a really cool thing. If you plan to be more of a spell turret (Ranged magical damage) then pair that up with either a short bow or a long bow and mow down the enemies.
Edit. typo
** Two-handed sword
** Longbow
and plan to put one in quarterstaves and one in twohanded weapon style with my eventual additional pips.
Longbow because of elves' +1 to hit, and because bows rock in BG1. Two-handed sword, again because of elves' +1 to hit, as well as to use Spider's Bane (the free action seemed like it would be extra useful in a solo game where being incapacitated is especially deadly). Also I preferred using a 2H weapon over dual wielding so I could have a bow equipped.
The quarterstaff is for backstabbing, and also for taking care of enemies like skeletons that are resistant to piercing and slashing. I debated over putting a second pip in quarterstaves, but figured that it only gave a +1 extra damage over 2HWS, so it wouldn't make too much difference for backstabs, and 2HWS will also give bonuses to 2H sword, which I'll be fighting with a lot more than quarstaves.
A two-weapon fighting style F/M/T 2 pips in Longbows (Or slings, which are still amazing for elves), 2 pips in Scimitars and 2 pips in two weapon style is exceptionally viable.
If you're looking long term, it might even be in your best interests to go with Daggers instead of Bows, since in BG2 Throwing Dagger becomes arguably much more viable than bows, racial bonus or no, and there are some good weapons you can use that are daggers.
Depending on the rest of your party long term into BG2 you may either go into Katanas or Flails for your final (at least for 90% of the game) weapon choice to enjoy the amazing weapons available to either in the sequel.
If you wanted to go with Longswords or something instead of Scimitars or one of the other above, then you'd have a lot of solid options available, and can attribute pips accordingly, but the most important thing is to have Specialisation in your Primary hand weapon, your offhand can be merely 1 pip "proficient", since your offhand doesn't give extra 1/2 attacks for specialisation.
So if you pick a single weapon type to be your primary weapon and specialise in it, then you can cover a number of other proficiencies with a single pip to ensure you have a lot of choice in your offhand weapon.
Concerning weapon style, the actual difference between a Two-Handed Sword and a Scimitar is about 1 point of damage per hit, 3 with a pip in Two Handed Style. Meanwhile, the average damage of a single +2 scimitar off-hand hit with Specialisation and 19 Strength is 12.5 damage, plus any bonuses your offhand weapon might give, such as the Defender's +2 AC bonus. It's superior to single weapon style for the classes that can handle it, but generally Two-Weapon style is better throughout.
My F/M/T
Going all out attack (two weapons of slashing type, we kill Drizzt in this scenario for the big shiny swords...)
Fighter Level 1
Scimitar **
Two weapon style **
Fighter level 3
Scimitar **
Two weapon style ***
Okay now we need to diversify club or staff for crushing or shortsword or dagger for piercing... Elves get a bonus for shortswords so...
Fighter level 6
Scimitar **
Two weapon style ***
Shortsword *
Fighter level 9
Scimitar **
Two weapon style ***
Shortsword **
Choose a favourite...
Fighter level 12
Scimitar **
Two weapon style ***
Shortsword **
Katana *
Fighter level 15
Scimitar **
Two weapon style ***
Club **
Katana **
Now I have it in front of me... Two weapon style sucks a lot of points at the start... Perhaps
Fighter Level 1
Katana **
Quaterstaff **
Fighter level 3
Katana **
Quaterstaff **
Shortsword *
Fighter level 6
Katana **
Quaterstaff **
Shortsword **
Fighter level 9
Katana **
Quaterstaff **
Shortsword **
Two weapon fighting *
Fighter level 12
Katana **
Quaterstaff **
Shortsword **
Two weapon fighting **
Fighter level 15
Katana **
Quaterstaff **
Shortsword **
Two weapon fighting ***
Hmmm... Too many options...
BG1 cap: 6 pips total.
BG2 cap: 7 pips total.
ToB cap: 10 pips total.
Shortswords are generally not worth the investment compared to Scimitars, but generally if you end up with:
Level 1:
Primary 1 Handed Weapon (Longsword, Scimitar or Flail) **
Two Weapon Style **
This sets you up for melee against pretty much everything.
Level 3:
Primary 2-Handed Weapon (Staves give you a powerful one handed weapon in BG1 in the form of the Staff Mace, Two-handed Swords is a longer term benefit since it opens the way for Carsomyr) *
Level 6:
2-handed style (Staves, again, gives you the Staff of Striking, and the extra 1/2 attack is irrelevant, it's all about the backstabs, and 1 pip of 2-handed style gives a direct damage boost and a crit boost, perfect for the Backstabbing) *
Level 9:
Primary 2-Handed Weapon second pip.
Level 12-18:
3 pips freely allocated into Flails, Daggers, Axes, Two Handed Swords or whatever else you wanted.
@Pantalion I have only just killed Drizzt on this run, I am following your advice.
I am changing my ways, and going two handed backstabbing. The other pips will go on what fits best for the team... I must admit I do like running around with two katanas... But for sake of deadliness... I will run around with a staff of wood as this will hurt more when backstabbing. Everyone knows how nasty splinters can be...
The way of the Pantalion with Laniarty claw style is the way forward!
Excellent info. Top insightfulness. Thank you.
missile
piercing and slashing (roughly tied in my books)
blunt
Moreover, 2-weapon fighting is, IMHO, the best fighting style in BG 2 : Celestial Fury in right hand (or another high end weapon) and Crom Faeyr in left hand, and you're king of the Realms. With magic missiles, fireballs and the like, you don't need to shoot ennemies from far away. With speed boots, you can catch them in a second. So you can build your F/M/T as a full melee fighter. The only problem is that in BG1, you have low AC and hit points during the 1st half of the game (say, until you reach Cloakwood), and being an elf with Dex 19 gives you an excellent ThAC0 with bows. So you can shoot n' run everything that is too big for you (wolves, ogres, spiders, tough melee fighters and the like).
Before, when the two skill systems were different, you could make your character a archer in BG1, then a melee fighter in BG2, since you could redispatch your weapon proficiencies at the beginning of BG2. But with BG:EE and BG2:EE, you probably won't. So you have to make your choice at the beginning. Before BG:EE, I used to choose longsword as my melee weapon (for Greywolf's +2 sword, very easy to get), but there are not so much good longswords in BG2 : SoA. On the contrary, scimitar proficency gives you access to two easy-to-get +2 scimitars, Rashaad's Talon and Belm, which is really great with its additionnal attack. With those two, you can wait confortably for Celestial Fury (taking katana prof. at level 9 and 12, then hammer at lvl 15).
Hmm... It makes me think : did anyone try to use Xan's moonblade by naming Charname "Xan" ? Because if it works... It's equivalent to a +3 longsword with 50% resist fire and +1 AC. Not bad...
EDIT : got the answer : only works if you have the same class and (rotten) stats than Xan. Forget.
Longswords are interesting because they're good in BG1 (in all likelihood your first +2 weapon will be a longsword and it gets bonus elemental damage), and good at the beginning of SoA, but then proceed to fade into the background. That said, since you can't go past 2 pips in them anyway, it's not like you can't shift to another type later on. Likewise, Katana is a proficiency that has good points out of the gate in SoA (and the +1 Katana you can get in BG1 is nothing to sneeze at), but lacks good endgame options.
Maces are, in my opinion, an underappreciated weapon type. Stupefier is a fun weapon you can get very early, and having mace proficiency means you can effectively use the Mace of Disruption in SoA (and Skullcrusher is a dependable weapon in its own right). Even in ToB, Storm Star is a respectable main hand weapon with its electricity damage and chain lightning proc. You can't backstab with maces, though. If you want a crushing weapon you can backstab with, you're limited to clubs and staves. Staves are awesome, and you can dual-wield with the staff-mace (otherwise it's a 2-handed weapon). There are good (even great) clubs, but you're pretty limited in choice, especially once you hit ToB.
The best weapon in BG:EE is the Stupidfier.
The best 2 weapons to dual wield are the Stupidfier with the Dagger of Venom.
For JUST BG1:EE
Go 2 Dagger, 2 Mace, 2 Two Weapon Fighting. Main hand the dagger for backstabs. Poison and stunning left and right. Everything dies.
Max two weapon fighting next...nothing else matters. Using Blunt will help with your gimp'd thac0 growth since most armors are either weak vs it or have no extra bonus, and if you stick with Staves and clubs, you can still backstab.
Clubs don't have a lot of variety, especially in BG1 (still a nice choice for squeezing out an extra attack), and are still lacking in BG2, however the Gnasher+2 and Blackblood+3 are pretty damn awesome. Gnasher inflicts targets with bleeding on every hit, for 2 damage per round for 3 rounds, NO SAVE, and blackblood deals an additional +3 acid damage, which is a universal troll-killer and can penetrate most mage defenses except PFMW, or Mantles (the latter of which are extremely rare). There's a Fire based club that can be upgraded to +5, but...while it hits pretty hard (if the target isn't immune to fire damage, the most common resistance in ToB), it has a chance to blow up as a fireball, and tends to hurt you more then it does enemies.
Why not do mace instead of club? If you go quarterstaff can't you just switch to that for a better backstab than the club would give anyway, so it doesn't matter if the 1 handed weapon choice can backstab or not.
Edit:
Mace for BG1 (For Stupidfier) Flail in BG2 (For Flail of Ages) and QS for backstabs.
While the staff of the ram is without contest the best backstabbing weapon, it's better used by a thief, T/M, or C/T, rather then a fighter thief. A thief sucks in direct combat, due to lack of natural attacks, and thus maximizing the damage you deal in that 1 BS hit is important. For stalkers or part fighter Dual/MCs, it's unnecessary, since they can kill or heavily wound in their opening attack and then finish off the other enemies in direct melee, without having to rely on specific equipment and/or haste buffs to do so.
Now, in fights where backstab is useless, or once you start getting GWW, sure lay into the enemies with FoA or something, since you'll deal more damage in a round overall that way.
at start: ++ long swords ++ two weapon style
lvl 3: +++ two weapon style
lvl 6-9: ++ blunt weapons
lvl 12-15: ++ flails
if you're going with BG2 style, then:
at start: ++ scimitars ++ two weapon style
lvl 3: +++ two weapon style
lvl 6-9: ++ probably warhammers (crom faeyr, runehammer), maybe maces (disruption)
lvl 12-15: ++ flails
lvl 18 doesn't matter.
reasoning: scimitars are amazing all throughout the trilogy, and FMT can pull shit off like dual wielding belm and scarlet ninja-to, thus turning into a wood chipper who walks like a man. mace of disruption chunks undead, but it can be used without any prof to a certain degree... crom faeyr on the other hand not so much, since it gives you 25 STR when you don't already have that, turning you into a hulking death machine. final pips go to flails, just in time for FoA +5.
So what we need is weapon sets from IWD2 so it wouldn't be annoying.
But that's another topic. :-)
BTW If going the evil route in BG2EE, you can acquire a *very* nice longsword...
http://www.gamebanshee.com/showshot.php?/baldursgateii/equipment/images/blackrazor.jpg
Although you do have to follow an evil path to get this...
What's not to like?