What people are saying is that BG is not built around a 'TRUE D&D' experience, it is built around its 'nerfed' ruleset. Therefore playing it according to 'TRUE D&D'(tm) rules causes massive balance issues, such as making Drizzt a joke.
Yes exactly, i didnt know drizzt was nerfed in BG before this. Wish they just went with the real rules no nerfing of any kind...
Because then lvl 11 solo druids will decide to break their alignment and try to kill lvl 16 heroes of the Forgotten Realms. Its a game, a bloody good game. It just seems not to be the game for you.
What people are saying is that BG is not built around a 'TRUE D&D' experience, it is built around its 'nerfed' ruleset. Therefore playing it according to 'TRUE D&D'(tm) rules causes massive balance issues, such as making Drizzt a joke.
Yes exactly, i didnt know drizzt was nerfed in BG before this. Wish they just went with the real rules no nerfing of any kind...
I doubt u really want that. Collecting spell components comes to mind...
If Drizzt was a true level 16 ranger he'd be easier than he is now, as he would be doing significantly less damage (he has a rather pumped up offensive ability).
By using a level 11 character in BG, I'm not impressed by any feat as you are higher level than the game was balanced for.
I can't find two people who can agree on what the "True D&D rules" are in a PnP setting. I don't think you're going to have much luck finding a video game that offers that.
^^^^ this.
For me, being a vet of far too many years playing PnP D&D all the way back to Basic, I find the BG gaming rules just about as close to the "Real" thing as we are ever going to get in a game. Admittedly, games like ToEE also come close with a more turn based experience, but overall I find BG to be the 'Truest' translation thus far.
@satyrion. I don't think people are as much arguing about the 'Rules' so much as the fact that you removed the level cap. I'd Bet that if you were to play hard core rules (per the game setting in the config file) and tried to take out Drzzts solo at say level 6, he wouldn't be so easy. And since the game clearly is bugged such that 'Protection from normal weapons' makes you immune to his magical (dropped upon death) weapons, then not only are you not playing "By the rules" but you are exploiting a bug.
Again, play as you enjoy and want. Nothing wrong with modding/hacking. Just don't make any claims that you aren't doing exactly that. And maybe don't claim that the game is too easy too boot. ?
Is OP's thread irritating? Yes. Are thread respondents sanctimonious? For sure.
Drizzt's weapons should be flagged as magical. Like anything in D&D, a specific spell effect or ability can make the difference between a shocking beatdown and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PQ6335puOc
All i ever wanted was a game with TRUE D&D rules...
"True" D&D rules are meant to be a tool for a human dungeon master and human players. There's nothing wrong with seeing this game (and any others) as a series of tactical challenges, but "true" D&D rules aren't designed to only provide that. They are meant to entertain in the hands of a human gamemaster for a sword and sorcery setting.
And then there is the question of which ruleset with which official/semi-official modifications in which setting you would want to call "true"...
Considering the friends and resources available to Drizz't, I would highly suspect that a druid who killed a widely famous goodly ranger of Mielikki would have the whole Silver Marches, several druidic circles and some of those who harp after him, not to mention the personal attention of:
* at least one of the Seven Sisters * The Blackstaff * The King of the Mithril Hall * Said king's daughter * The ruler of Citadel Andbar * The once-chief of The Elk Tribe * The worthies of House Harpell and maybe even * The last prince of Athalantar.
(Edit: Add a certain assassin out of Calimshan and a certain powerful denizen of the lower planes to the list. They would have preferred to have been the ones who finally had done the dark elf in, and would not have taken kindly to the competition.)
In a PnP setting, within the same day as the deed was done, you would have received your just desserts--unless you obtained some help from rival factions, for which you would have to bargain perhaps even your soul--literally.
Finally, the "true" ruleset is not meant to have the players (or the DM) "win" the game. The object of D&D is not to "win" the game; "winning" in a PnP setting wouldn't apply. However, a linearized (yet vastly entertaining) CRPG has a goal of winning the game.
I agree with @pekirt on having a human DM. Baldur's Gate is D&D adventure, but the DM is the computer, thus there is an XP cap that ensures that the challenges presented to you are appropriate for a character of that level of power. A human DM would have better control over the encounters that you experience at any given time.
So to reiterate what the others have said, you can't remove the XP cap put in place by the DM (game) and then comment on how OP you are vs. Drizzt. Oh yeah, hi DM, I'm going to use this character sheet instead, I know you haven't awarded XP yet, but I figure I've leveled up by now so...
Playing Baldur's Gate is pretty much playing D&D with Bioware's expansive list of house rules, and while I've never played D&D with a DM who set an explicit level cap, I've played with some who give out experience at such a glacial rate as to accomplish the same end.
I can just reload, i dont really hardcore roleplay but i prefer following the real rules.
Rest assured of my apathy one way or another, especially when "real" D&D rules actually don't award exp for encounters and quests that aren't actually challenging enough to do so, so your entire premise is illogical anyway, but I must ask. Which rule book covers reloading?
Do I surmise correctly that you're using Rebalanced Shapeshifting from BG2Tweaks? That mod is notorious for being horribly strong, both the wereform and its upgraded Conjure Animals spell (the werebears). It's considered overpowered even in the context of BG2 so what do you expect for BG1? That's why there are many other shapeshifter mods out there, trying to fine a better balance between weak and brokenly good.
Playing Baldur's Gate is pretty much playing D&D with Bioware's expansive list of house rules, and while I've never played D&D with a DM who set an explicit level cap, I've played with some who give out experience at such a glacial rate as to accomplish the same end.
I have played with DM's who have a "Level" cap (usually in the form of 'This module is intended for characters 6-8' and then dolling out XP commensurate with keeping the players in line with that range throughout the entire adventure), but more importantly, any DM worth playing with will set and adjust the encounters such that they provide a decent challenge to the players regardless of their level in relation to the module.
The DM that I played most with would reward 'out of the box' thinking on things such as innovative ways of working within the rules, but would equally be a terrible tyrant when it came to any sort of abuse of those same rules. Protection from Normal Weapons (or an ability that gave you same) which made someone immune to Twinkle and Icing Death would be a horrible abuse of those rules.
As a side note, I would be very interested in the OP's idea of how BG rules were 'nerfed' in relation to the 'Real' rules. Granted, some things were adjusted to make the game work within the confines of the computer program. And equally granted some stuff was broken. But by and large, I believe that the spirit of the vast majority of the rules are represented in the game.
Also, has anyone ever noticed how sanctimonious it is to call someone else sanctimonious?
Well, I'm not familiar with the PnP rules for werewolves but I'm guessing that it's a fair bit more powerful than the rules used by the Baldur's Gate serious, no doubt because it's likely extremely difficult to become such a werewolf and thus would be very powerful, a level of power that would be unbalanced in this game.
Honestly you're sounding more and more like a petulant child then a fan of D&D. "I want it MY way or it doesn't really count!"
Well, I'm not familiar with the PnP rules for werewolves but I'm guessing that it's a fair bit more powerful than the rules used by the Baldur's Gate serious, no doubt because it's likely extremely difficult to become such a werewolf and thus would be very powerful, a level of power that would be unbalanced in this game.
Honestly you're sounding more and more like a petulant child then a fan of D&D. "I want it MY way or it doesn't really count!"
My level 10 Beserker chunked Drizzt one on one, without using magic or potions, or a strength boosting belt or glove. (He has 18/00 though, so I rolled for awhile to get his stats)
He did however, use the improved cloak of protection from the black pits for improved haste.
I love this game, but it's actually a lot of fun to solo the black pits and send a real adventurer out into the BG1 You just get a sense of atmosphere that way vs leveling allover again for the 25th time in my case.
I would love to level to 13 and dual in BG1 to Thief as I originally intended. But all of my NPC's will start out at level 6 this way no matter what I do. Making it easier to dual class Imoen / Shar=Teel...etc.
I've played PNP campaigns where you don't start at level 1. And if I survive the pits solo I feel like there's something to that.
@satyrion but this IS the D&D way, sure it's modified from the PnP rules, but there are to achieve a sense of balance for an entirely pre-generated adventure with no DM oversight.
Just a wondering one thing, have you completed the game at all un-modified? Not an accusation, just wondering.
Go to town. Lord knows I enjoy playing ridiculously powerful characters from time to time (one of these days I'm going to make a Kensai/Druid with grandmastery in spears using those broken throwing spears from the Item Upgrade mod). Just don't expect the game to be challenging when you use a character that is higher level than you're supposed to be able to achieve with equipment that is better than what you normally get.
I mean, there are tactics and exploits that strike me as cheesy/boring, but I'm not going to judge someone as somehow ethically bankrupt for using them. The whole point of modding in the first place is playing the game how you want to.
BG is based off of Tabletop rules, but they are not the be-all and end-all. The rules are adjusted to make the actual game better, and not the game being adjusted to fit the rules.
It's an enjoyable RPG experience that has rules primarily based on the DnD rules of the time. However, if you want a "true DnD" experience, you aren't necessarily going to get it out of a video game, and definitely not this video game by your own beliefs of what "true DnD" is.
ironically no matter the level Shapeshifters are illegal in bg, since the original game doesnt have any kits.
Yes, but we're talking about BG:EE here in which they are very "legal".
A lot of the changes made in comparison to original BG1 make the game easier and I don't mind it being easier since you can always create a less god-like PC or restrain yourself from using any cheesy tactics.
Comments
Its a game, a bloody good game. It just seems not to be the game for you.
I doubt u really want that. Collecting spell components comes to mind...
The game is too easy.
/facepalm
By using a level 11 character in BG, I'm not impressed by any feat as you are higher level than the game was balanced for.
The use of xp cap remover is fine, whatever brings you fun. Don't need to justify yourself to anyone.
That's what the mod is all about: "what if...?"
For me, being a vet of far too many years playing PnP D&D all the way back to Basic, I find the BG gaming rules just about as close to the "Real" thing as we are ever going to get in a game. Admittedly, games like ToEE also come close with a more turn based experience, but overall I find BG to be the 'Truest' translation thus far.
@satyrion. I don't think people are as much arguing about the 'Rules' so much as the fact that you removed the level cap. I'd Bet that if you were to play hard core rules (per the game setting in the config file) and tried to take out Drzzts solo at say level 6, he wouldn't be so easy. And since the game clearly is bugged such that 'Protection from normal weapons' makes you immune to his magical (dropped upon death) weapons, then not only are you not playing "By the rules" but you are exploiting a bug.
Again, play as you enjoy and want. Nothing wrong with modding/hacking. Just don't make any claims that you aren't doing exactly that. And maybe don't claim that the game is too easy too boot. ?
Drizzt's weapons should be flagged as magical. Like anything in D&D, a specific spell effect or ability can make the difference between a shocking beatdown and
And then there is the question of which ruleset with which official/semi-official modifications in which setting you would want to call "true"...
Considering the friends and resources available to Drizz't, I would highly suspect that a druid who killed a widely famous goodly ranger of Mielikki would have the whole Silver Marches, several druidic circles and some of those who harp after him, not to mention the personal attention of:
* at least one of the Seven Sisters
* The Blackstaff
* The King of the Mithril Hall
* Said king's daughter
* The ruler of Citadel Andbar
* The once-chief of The Elk Tribe
* The worthies of House Harpell
and maybe even
* The last prince of Athalantar.
(Edit: Add a certain assassin out of Calimshan and a certain powerful denizen of the lower planes to the list. They would have preferred to have been the ones who finally had done the dark elf in, and would not have taken kindly to the competition.)
In a PnP setting, within the same day as the deed was done, you would have received your just desserts--unless you obtained some help from rival factions, for which you would have to bargain perhaps even your soul--literally.
Finally, the "true" ruleset is not meant to have the players (or the DM) "win" the game. The object of D&D is not to "win" the game; "winning" in a PnP setting wouldn't apply. However, a linearized (yet vastly entertaining) CRPG has a goal of winning the game.
So to reiterate what the others have said, you can't remove the XP cap put in place by the DM (game) and then comment on how OP you are vs. Drizzt. Oh yeah, hi DM, I'm going to use this character sheet instead, I know you haven't awarded XP yet, but I figure I've leveled up by now so...
Tested 2012 build. PrFW provided by arcane spell does not protect against Drizzt's weapons.
The DM that I played most with would reward 'out of the box' thinking on things such as innovative ways of working within the rules, but would equally be a terrible tyrant when it came to any sort of abuse of those same rules. Protection from Normal Weapons (or an ability that gave you same) which made someone immune to Twinkle and Icing Death would be a horrible abuse of those rules.
As a side note, I would be very interested in the OP's idea of how BG rules were 'nerfed' in relation to the 'Real' rules. Granted, some things were adjusted to make the game work within the confines of the computer program. And equally granted some stuff was broken. But by and large, I believe that the spirit of the vast majority of the rules are represented in the game.
Also, has anyone ever noticed how sanctimonious it is to call someone else sanctimonious?
OK, OK, I'll stop.. please don't hurt me....
It would be the same thing if they made Giants avaliable but they only had 18 strenght... than i would rather just play a human...
Nuff said!
/end thread
Honestly you're sounding more and more like a petulant child then a fan of D&D. "I want it MY way or it doesn't really count!"
am sorry u feel that way...
My level 10 Beserker chunked Drizzt one on one, without using magic or potions, or a strength boosting belt or glove. (He has 18/00 though, so I rolled for awhile to get his stats)
He did however, use the improved cloak of protection from the black pits for improved haste.
I love this game, but it's actually a lot of fun to solo the black pits and send a real adventurer out into the BG1 You just get a sense of atmosphere that way vs leveling allover again for the 25th time in my case.
I would love to level to 13 and dual in BG1 to Thief as I originally intended. But all of my NPC's will start out at level 6 this way no matter what I do. Making it easier to dual class Imoen / Shar=Teel...etc.
I've played PNP campaigns where you don't start at level 1. And if I survive the pits solo I feel like there's something to that.
Just a wondering one thing, have you completed the game at all un-modified? Not an accusation, just wondering.
I mean, there are tactics and exploits that strike me as cheesy/boring, but I'm not going to judge someone as somehow ethically bankrupt for using them. The whole point of modding in the first place is playing the game how you want to.
The rules are adjusted to make the actual game better, and not the game being adjusted to fit the rules.
It's an enjoyable RPG experience that has rules primarily based on the DnD rules of the time. However, if you want a "true DnD" experience, you aren't necessarily going to get it out of a video game, and definitely not this video game by your own beliefs of what "true DnD" is.
A lot of the changes made in comparison to original BG1 make the game easier and I don't mind it being easier since you can always create a less god-like PC or restrain yourself from using any cheesy tactics.