Geez tough audience here. I like the OP's plan, has me seriously thinking about a similar play through myself. But then all the talk the other day about how stupid a Fighter/cleric/mage was led to roll up such a character for myself too, seriously fun playthrough!
It is just that it is redundant in a lot of ways, the whole point of adding the fighter class is to be a better fighter, but the cleric buffs and mages tensors transformation and black blade of disaster can make you just as good a fighter anyway. So what is it that you are getting out of 1/3 of your XP being sucked up by the fighter class? Other than the HLAs?
Of course that isn't true in BG:EE with the level cap, the fighter levels probably add quite a bit more there.
The big thing the fighter levels add is it makes her wicked with a sling. Of course she's fragile like a Mage due to lousy hit points. But at least she's using a shield and helmet! And of course it just sure is funny having someone level up so slowly. Early on it's making a lot of things harder, I expect mid-game she will be a much more useful utility player.
My point was all those advantages that make her better with weapons are replicated with just mage and cleric spells in combination. In BG2 levels. None of what I said applied to BG1:EE.
My point was all those advantages that make her better with weapons are replicated with just mage and cleric spells in combination. In BG2 levels. None of what I said applied to BG1:EE.
Oh no doubt, but it's fun to try and play with a handicap like a wasted class! And it's mildly amusing when your main character is essentially baggage and you have to do the heavy lifting with your NPCs.
I'd like to see spheres for clerics implemented where you pick a deity etc... that would open up the ability to let some clerics use swords etc... based off of their deities requirements.
Then for multiclass characters, where they have 2 spell casting slots, make two spell casting buttons, one for each class. That would make dealing with the tons of spells a cleric/mage has easier, but on top of that completely separate the spell lists of the individual classes.
So you'd have to pick to cast from your cleric spell list at your cleric level, or to pick from your ranger spell list at your ranger level.
I'd like to see spheres for clerics implemented where you pick a deity etc... that would open up the ability to let some clerics use swords etc... based off of their deities requirements.
Then for multiclass characters, where they have 2 spell casting slots, make two spell casting buttons, one for each class. That would make dealing with the tons of spells a cleric/mage has easier, but on top of that completely separate the spell lists of the individual classes.
So you'd have to pick to cast from your cleric spell list at your cleric level, or to pick from your ranger spell list at your ranger level.
I believe one of the cleric kits can already summon a sword a few times per day.
Cleric/Ranger is insane in BG because Rangers should not be getting access to some of the spheres that they are.
To this day I don't know why Ranger sphere access is not correct.
It's house rules I guess. BG doesn't seem to follow the core rules exactly in many cases.
Which I guess us why none of that bothers me. I never played in a PNP game that didn't have many pages of house rules, so I don't expect BG to be any different.
There is a huge difference in house rules for the purpose of making it make sense because it is a computer game, and drastically over powering something because they were too lazy to implement individual spell lists for classes so just had a single spell list that everything got added to.
I don't want the game to be JUST like PnP, but house rules that end up being huge design flaws (like free action stopping haste, HUGE design flaw and I'm guessing the origins were ALSO in laziness where free action just targeted any spell that affected any movement)
Right or wrong, I can make a well reasoned argument for ranged weapons being handled more like melee weapons than in PnP. I can't make a well reasoned argument for free action stopping haste, nor for 2 classes in a multi class not having individual spell lists. I doubt anyone could, though I'm guessing most of us define "welll reasoned" differently.
I was referring to the fact that not all cleric deities ban pointy weapons, so there are clerics out there that should be using long swords no problem, not just as a spell.
This would again fall under the category of design flaw because they were too lazy to implement cleric spheres and deities properly. (They being Black Isle)
I have _slightly_ different view points on what Overhaul should "enhance" and leave alone because that is the way it has been for a decade+.
I think ALL the poor design flaws that seem to have been based on time constraints and/or being lazy should be fixed, after weighing how difficult it would be in terms of time and resources.
You can't dual into a mage kit, so you will be giving up a spell slot per mage level. You can't wear cleric armor and cast mage spells. Most of the cleric spells are also available as potions, bhaal-spawn SLA, or from a temple. To hit level 9 mage is 135k XP, means you dual out of cleric at level 5. That's one level 3 spell. Yawn. You get one spell per round, and that spell is almost always gonna be arcane. Do not multi-class this, cuz that really cuts your mage caster level and high end spells.
Go for it. Helmets - crit protection! Shields for some mage AC! Stupifier mace - but you give up the poison dagger and stun darts.
F/M or T/M duals are better, but C/M should be fun.
Multi cleric/mage is potentially one of the best classes end game due to contingencies etc imo.
Multi is great but very different than a straight mage. I can understand the throught, but high level mages are so powerful anyway that any form of high level mage is already one of the best classes.
Dual would definitely not suck. People have played non-specialist mages forever and they are very effective. A dual C/M is the exact same as an already very powerful single class generalist mage but he has more HP, the ability to wear helms and use shields, and a handful of useful spells to supplement (doom, silence, etc.).
The OP further empowers this model by SK the mage into a specialist. Suck is definitely the wrong word to use.
Dual would definitely not suck. People have played non-specialist mages forever and they are very effective. A dual C/M is the exact same as an already very powerful single class generalist mage but he has more HP, the ability to wear helms and use shields, and a handful of useful spells to supplement (doom, silence, etc.).
This!
Having played BG2 with a non-specialist single class mage with less than 50 HP (including the ones from the familiar) at maximum level, I can confirm that a dual cleric/mage would definitely not suck.
Multi cleric/mage is potentially one of the best classes end game due to contingencies etc imo.
Multi is great but very different than a straight mage. I can understand the throught, but high level mages are so powerful anyway that any form of high level mage is already one of the best classes.
Dual would definitely not suck. People have played non-specialist mages forever and they are very effective. A dual C/M is the exact same as an already very powerful single class generalist mage but he has more HP, the ability to wear helms and use shields, and a handful of useful spells to supplement (doom, silence, etc.).
The OP further empowers t by SK the mage into a specialist. Suck is definitely the wrong word to use.
There is a huge difference in house rules for the purpose of making it make sense because it is a computer game, and drastically over powering something because they were too lazy to implement individual spell lists for classes so just had a single spell list that everything got added to.
I don't want the game to be JUST like PnP, but house rules that end up being huge design flaws (like free action stopping haste, HUGE design flaw and I'm guessing the origins were ALSO in laziness where free action just targeted any spell that affected any movement)
Right or wrong, I can make a well reasoned argument for ranged weapons being handled more like melee weapons than in PnP. I can't make a well reasoned argument for free action stopping haste, nor for 2 classes in a multi class not having individual spell lists. I doubt anyone could, though I'm guessing most of us define "welll reasoned" differently.
Actually Free Action stopping Haste is completely consistent with PNP. Free Action is a mixed blessing. And seriously, in PNP games I DM going back 30 years, a multi-class Ranger/Cleric would have the same spell list for both classes (I always gave Rangers access to their deity's spheres of influence, just like a cleric; so a cleric/ranger's spell lists would always be exactly the same). I admit that is a house rule, but I've always considered it a completely logical one, and 90% of the time it works to the player's advantage. One of my all time favorite PCs was a Ranger/Cleric, around 15th level when I stopped playing him after ten years or so, those spell rules served him well!
There are some oddities in BG implementation. I particularly wish the more complete stat bonuses/penalties had been implemented so every score could matter for every character. But in the end, nothing is game breaking and I think BG remains an awesome game.
Actually Free Action stopping Haste is completely consistent with PNP.
I'm pretty sure it isn't. From everything I've looked up for 2e/3e and from everyone I've asked, free action doesn't stop haste.
Also think about it, free action, or as it is called in 3e FREEDOM of movement, wouldn't restrict your movement.
My books are at home; but BG is 2E, and I'm pretty sure the description of Free Action says it stops anything that alters natural movement, Haste included. Also remember in PNP Haste causes one year of aging per use, so Free Action could be considered to be helping you by blocking it.
Comments
Multi cleric/mage is potentially one of the best classes end game due to contingencies etc imo.
@RedWizard
Play BG1 as a complete game, so that you can actually enjoy it (not "yeah but in two years, when BG2:EE's out ... ).
when BG2:EE is out, consider creating a character for the whole saga.
It's bad to gimp yourself just *in case* of a game that's not out yet.
Who was he? Xzar big brother?
then switch to mage when you get to mage in BG2 EE
You get the warrior HLAs so that is pretty cool.
It is just that it is redundant in a lot of ways, the whole point of adding the fighter class is to be a better fighter, but the cleric buffs and mages tensors transformation and black blade of disaster can make you just as good a fighter anyway. So what is it that you are getting out of 1/3 of your XP being sucked up by the fighter class? Other than the HLAs?
Of course that isn't true in BG:EE with the level cap, the fighter levels probably add quite a bit more there.
To this day I don't know why Ranger sphere access is not correct.
I'd like to see spheres for clerics implemented where you pick a deity etc... that would open up the ability to let some clerics use swords etc... based off of their deities requirements.
Then for multiclass characters, where they have 2 spell casting slots, make two spell casting buttons, one for each class. That would make dealing with the tons of spells a cleric/mage has easier, but on top of that completely separate the spell lists of the individual classes.
So you'd have to pick to cast from your cleric spell list at your cleric level, or to pick from your ranger spell list at your ranger level.
There is a huge difference in house rules for the purpose of making it make sense because it is a computer game, and drastically over powering something because they were too lazy to implement individual spell lists for classes so just had a single spell list that everything got added to.
I don't want the game to be JUST like PnP, but house rules that end up being huge design flaws (like free action stopping haste, HUGE design flaw and I'm guessing the origins were ALSO in laziness where free action just targeted any spell that affected any movement)
Right or wrong, I can make a well reasoned argument for ranged weapons being handled more like melee weapons than in PnP. I can't make a well reasoned argument for free action stopping haste, nor for 2 classes in a multi class not having individual spell lists. I doubt anyone could, though I'm guessing most of us define "welll reasoned" differently.
This would again fall under the category of design flaw because they were too lazy to implement cleric spheres and deities properly. (They being Black Isle)
I have _slightly_ different view points on what Overhaul should "enhance" and leave alone because that is the way it has been for a decade+.
I think ALL the poor design flaws that seem to have been based on time constraints and/or being lazy should be fixed, after weighing how difficult it would be in terms of time and resources.
You can't wear cleric armor and cast mage spells.
Most of the cleric spells are also available as potions, bhaal-spawn SLA, or from a temple.
To hit level 9 mage is 135k XP, means you dual out of cleric at level 5. That's one level 3 spell. Yawn.
You get one spell per round, and that spell is almost always gonna be arcane.
Do not multi-class this, cuz that really cuts your mage caster level and high end spells.
Go for it.
Helmets - crit protection!
Shields for some mage AC!
Stupifier mace - but you give up the poison dagger and stun darts.
F/M or T/M duals are better, but C/M should be fun.
Dual would definitely not suck. People have played non-specialist mages forever and they are very effective. A dual C/M is the exact same as an already very powerful single class generalist mage but he has more HP, the ability to wear helms and use shields, and a handful of useful spells to supplement (doom, silence, etc.).
The OP further empowers this model by SK the mage into a specialist. Suck is definitely the wrong word to use.
Having played BG2 with a non-specialist single class mage with less than 50 HP (including the ones from the familiar) at maximum level, I can confirm that a dual cleric/mage would definitely not suck.
The OP doesn't want to be a Cleric AND a Mage, he wants to be a full Mage with some smaller Cleric powers.
And seriously, in PNP games I DM going back 30 years, a multi-class Ranger/Cleric would have the same spell list for both classes (I always gave Rangers access to their deity's spheres of influence, just like a cleric; so a cleric/ranger's spell lists would always be exactly the same). I admit that is a house rule, but I've always considered it a completely logical one, and 90% of the time it works to the player's advantage. One of my all time favorite PCs was a Ranger/Cleric, around 15th level when I stopped playing him after ten years or so, those spell rules served him well!
There are some oddities in BG implementation. I particularly wish the more complete stat bonuses/penalties had been implemented so every score could matter for every character. But in the end, nothing is game breaking and I think BG remains an awesome game.
Also think about it, free action, or as it is called in 3e FREEDOM of movement, wouldn't restrict your movement.