[BG:EE] PLEASE READ - LIST OF THINGS THAT CAN'T BE DONE.
AndreaColombo
Member Posts: 5,530
As much as we'd all like BG:EE to be limitless, this is unfortuantely not possible. The devs' scope faces limitations due to the source art assets having been lost, contractual limitations and time constraints.
In light of this, it is of no consequence to request features or contents that is already 100% sure the devs cannot deliver. Hence, it is with Beamdog / Overhaul Games' endorsement that I hereby provide what I hope to be a comprehensive list of things that can NOT be done in, with or for BG:EE, in order to help you focus your requests on things the devs can actually potentially deliver.
1. The source art assets for Baldur's Gate, Baldur's Gate: Shadows of Amn and Throne of Bhaal are lost.
All the original area art, paperdolls, monsters and character models are lost with the exception of a few 3D models of monsters from Throne of Bhaal. There is nothing anyone can do about it. Therefore, it is not possible for the devs to deliver Baldur's Gate HD, and/or re-render any art at higher resolutions. Significant modifications to sprites, like displaying cloaks and hats, adding new/more armor styles, or removing the mirroring effect from BG2 animations, are also off-limits.
As per Trent Oster, the devs are currently limited to the existing animations. There will be no new animations in BG:EE, so it is no use to ask for them. Recreating character models from scratch and rendering them at high resolution is out of question, because it would take more time and resources than are currently available to the devs. Also, recreating character models alone is not an option, as they would look glaringly better than all monsters that weren't re-rendered; if something got redone, then everything else should get the same treatment for the sake of visual consistency, thus making this an even more demanding (and unfeasible) task.
In light of the above, it doesn't make much sense to request new monsters, as they won't have distinctive animations to go (and I personally believe Baldur's Gate already has enough monsters that share the same animation or a recolored version of the same animation).
2. Contractual limitations.
Beamdog's contract is for BG:EE and BG2:EE only.
No contract exists for a remake of Icewind Dale, Icewind Dale II or Planescape: Torment as of now. Therefore, it vicariously ensues that the devs have no access to any resources from those titles, including portraits, animations, spells, and monsters. Modders may be able to port those contents to BG:EE once the game is released, but the devs are legally bound to work with the Baldur's Gate saga resources alone.
The contract prevents Beamdog / Overhaul to alter the original game contents heavy handedly.
This is what Trent Oster had to say about it on the official Beamdog forum:
"1. Altering the dialog of the old joinable characters
-We can't do this
2. Altering the dialog of encounterable npc's in the campaign, including minor ones
-small scale text only changes are possible.
3. Adding new encounters to the old maps
-possible
4. Relocating encounters on the old maps
-possible, but at risk of introducing bugs
5. Retuning difficulty of old encounters, at the level of content rather than engine
-possible, again content tweaking risks adding bugs.
6. Adding/removing/moving gear in old encounters/npcs/containers.
-Again, possible, but adding risks adding bugs.
Our stance is to try and avoid too much meddling in the original content and focus our efforts on the new content."
Beamdog / Overhaul also face contractual limitations regarding the addition of new content to the existing games. They can build new content as "expansions", but they cannot add to the core content in the main title. This limitation is due to the contracts for the original source content and limit the devs from adding new conversation for existing characters to the main game. Hence, adding banters, inerjections and romances to the original cast of characters is unfortunately not feasible. They will interact with new NPCs and react to new situations and areas, but that's about it.
3. Time constraints.
BG:EE is scheduled for release by the end of the summer, which will occur on 28th November 2012.
It is therefore apparent that the time left at the devs' disposal isn't much. They are currently working really, really, and I mean REALLY hard (trust me on this, I'm a Doctor) (actually, a Doctor and a BG:EE beta tester) on fixing outstanding bugs, overcoming existing engine limitations and building the new GUI. They will likely have little time left to implement new features.
If what you have in mind is particularly big and/or time consuming, consider requesting it here as a post-ship DLC feature.
In light of this, it is of no consequence to request features or contents that is already 100% sure the devs cannot deliver. Hence, it is with Beamdog / Overhaul Games' endorsement that I hereby provide what I hope to be a comprehensive list of things that can NOT be done in, with or for BG:EE, in order to help you focus your requests on things the devs can actually potentially deliver.
1. The source art assets for Baldur's Gate, Baldur's Gate: Shadows of Amn and Throne of Bhaal are lost.
All the original area art, paperdolls, monsters and character models are lost with the exception of a few 3D models of monsters from Throne of Bhaal. There is nothing anyone can do about it. Therefore, it is not possible for the devs to deliver Baldur's Gate HD, and/or re-render any art at higher resolutions. Significant modifications to sprites, like displaying cloaks and hats, adding new/more armor styles, or removing the mirroring effect from BG2 animations, are also off-limits.
As per Trent Oster, the devs are currently limited to the existing animations. There will be no new animations in BG:EE, so it is no use to ask for them. Recreating character models from scratch and rendering them at high resolution is out of question, because it would take more time and resources than are currently available to the devs. Also, recreating character models alone is not an option, as they would look glaringly better than all monsters that weren't re-rendered; if something got redone, then everything else should get the same treatment for the sake of visual consistency, thus making this an even more demanding (and unfeasible) task.
In light of the above, it doesn't make much sense to request new monsters, as they won't have distinctive animations to go (and I personally believe Baldur's Gate already has enough monsters that share the same animation or a recolored version of the same animation).
2. Contractual limitations.
Beamdog's contract is for BG:EE and BG2:EE only.
No contract exists for a remake of Icewind Dale, Icewind Dale II or Planescape: Torment as of now. Therefore, it vicariously ensues that the devs have no access to any resources from those titles, including portraits, animations, spells, and monsters. Modders may be able to port those contents to BG:EE once the game is released, but the devs are legally bound to work with the Baldur's Gate saga resources alone.
The contract prevents Beamdog / Overhaul to alter the original game contents heavy handedly.
This is what Trent Oster had to say about it on the official Beamdog forum:
"1. Altering the dialog of the old joinable characters
-We can't do this
2. Altering the dialog of encounterable npc's in the campaign, including minor ones
-small scale text only changes are possible.
3. Adding new encounters to the old maps
-possible
4. Relocating encounters on the old maps
-possible, but at risk of introducing bugs
5. Retuning difficulty of old encounters, at the level of content rather than engine
-possible, again content tweaking risks adding bugs.
6. Adding/removing/moving gear in old encounters/npcs/containers.
-Again, possible, but adding risks adding bugs.
Our stance is to try and avoid too much meddling in the original content and focus our efforts on the new content."
Beamdog / Overhaul also face contractual limitations regarding the addition of new content to the existing games. They can build new content as "expansions", but they cannot add to the core content in the main title. This limitation is due to the contracts for the original source content and limit the devs from adding new conversation for existing characters to the main game. Hence, adding banters, inerjections and romances to the original cast of characters is unfortunately not feasible. They will interact with new NPCs and react to new situations and areas, but that's about it.
3. Time constraints.
BG:EE is scheduled for release by the end of the summer, which will occur on 28th November 2012.
It is therefore apparent that the time left at the devs' disposal isn't much. They are currently working really, really, and I mean REALLY hard (trust me on this, I'm a Doctor) (actually, a Doctor and a BG:EE beta tester) on fixing outstanding bugs, overcoming existing engine limitations and building the new GUI. They will likely have little time left to implement new features.
If what you have in mind is particularly big and/or time consuming, consider requesting it here as a post-ship DLC feature.
Post edited by AndreaColombo on
157
Comments
A quick question though:
One of the art problems in the original games was the mirrored sprite issue - a player character facing left or right would have thier weapon and shield swap hand on thier character depending upon which direction they face. Does the restriction you describe above prevent you from fixing this issue, given that it would be the restyling of an existing animation?
Just to be clear, me and AndreaColombo aren't a part of Overhaul, we're just volunteers.
But to answer your question, yes, without the original art assets the only way to remove the mirroring off the BG2 animations would be to redraw them scratch, which unfortunately, isn't something that Overhaul could reasonably do with this project.
Thanks for clearing that up.
The devs only have the rights for BG1 and BG2 so, I would assume no stealing monster sprites from IWD and PST, but presumably they could swipe assets from BG2 and put them into the new content for bg1? Especially since they will now be using the same engine.
I imagine that using BG2 art assets in BGEE is ok (at least for the new content).
@geselle I'm not good at handling the inconvenient truth.
My disappointment came a couple of months ago when TrentOster started twitting about BGEE and the constraints that they have to work with. Since then, I've come to accept BGEE for what it is than what I expected it to be. I'd love to see greatly improved graphics too, but its simply not feasible for the project.
Don't get me wrong, its ok for you to be disappointed. Personally, I just choose to believe that BGEE is a start for things to come. Not only that we'll get a BG with an improved engine (despite the lack of a major graphical improvement), but also that we'll get some nice original content. And that later in the line we'll be able to see new isometric RPGs.
That's all that was ever advertised. Isn't that enough? Sure there have been plenty of great suggestions here on the forums, but the reality is that game development costs money (devs eat food too, presumably), a two-year development cycle isn't something a relatively small studio like beamdog/overhaul can pull off just like that, especially if the project isn't a guaranteed seller. It's sad, but the current systems in place make it so.
The best thing we can do is support them and make sure they gain enough funds to take on bigger projects with longer development cycles.. *cough* Baldur's Gate 3 *cough*
As Trent said, BG:EE is step one. their ultimate goal is BG3 or a new Isometric Party Based RPG, so right now they are reviving this games.
Second thing, the resolution will be higher than that of tutu/bgt and the game will run much smoother.
also they can add encounters in existing areas, so its not all that bad.
and you forget that they will add two adventures including new areas, monsters from bg2 and npc's. and I can tell you that this adventures are going to be GREAT and will improve the game greatly.
also I believe that its not all black&white, I can live with no new animations or HD, but I believe they will do some minor changes to the original content, we just dont know yet.
The only thing that really bothers me is not adding npc interactions. if the NPC project will be compatible BG:EE will be perfect.
oh and one last thing! NO big company will take on itself to remake an 14 year old game! they prefer to do games such as D3 and DA:2 and to do more money. Beamdog.com is a small company who took on itself this awesome project although I believe they could do other projects more profitable. many of Overhaul Games employees worked on the original game as well, and they are doing this because they love this game just as much as you and I, so be grateful that we have the opportunity to see the best rpg ever revived! because I am!
Btw.: I'm really disappointed but this is a dilemma. It's buying this game and supporting further overhauled games, on the other hand it's not that much content i care about.
Edit: The NPC project for Baldur's Gate 1 felt very strange. The writing somehow didn't fit, and it had loads of content, so it turned the tables between BG1 and 2.
unless of course you have couple of M$ spare to buy the rights and donate it to Beamdog ;-)
I say lets blame WotC, we have got to blame someone
@Winthal "devs eat food too, presumably" I always seem to forget that bit since your characters don't have to.
@Tanthalas I really, really hope so. It has been my dream for 7-8 years now. And I ensure you, I have every intention of buying this game regardless of the price.
@mch202 If BG3 would happen, it would be the happiest moment of my existence.
So if people seems to underestimate the work or the love to the game these people have, perhaps its the wrong forum to be in.
The only thing I'm a bit worried about are the interactions, but the new content makes it a must-buy. If BG is about HD graphics then what are we doing here anyway?