Calling all Bard experts -Blades in particular!-
Teeq
Member Posts: 11
Hey all, I'm going to start a new run of BGEE as a bard - a class I don't have much experience with. I want to take this char all the way through BG2 and ToB. Right now, I'm really leaning toward the Blade kit.
I have a few questions before I dive in:
- does the description of Defensive Stance mean that you can't go lower than -10 AC while in it, or that -10 is the maximum benefit it gives? (ie. you're level 10 and have -2 AC, then go into DS...your AC becomes -10 or -12?) This leads into my next question...
- does the AC bonus from Enhanced Bard Song stack with the AC bonus from Defensive Stance? Can you even sing while in DS for that matter?
- I read that Mislead and Simulacrum copies can use your bard song! And the effects stack! Can anyone confirm this?
- Does the extra attack granted by Belm stack with the extra attack granted by Offensive Spin?
- Can someone explain how to Song Weave (or whatever it's called) to me? I know what it does, I'm just looking for some technique pointers.
All that said, I'm not 100% committed to the Blade yet. What do you like about the other kits? or just tell me what you like about bards in general!
I have a few questions before I dive in:
- does the description of Defensive Stance mean that you can't go lower than -10 AC while in it, or that -10 is the maximum benefit it gives? (ie. you're level 10 and have -2 AC, then go into DS...your AC becomes -10 or -12?) This leads into my next question...
- does the AC bonus from Enhanced Bard Song stack with the AC bonus from Defensive Stance? Can you even sing while in DS for that matter?
- I read that Mislead and Simulacrum copies can use your bard song! And the effects stack! Can anyone confirm this?
- Does the extra attack granted by Belm stack with the extra attack granted by Offensive Spin?
- Can someone explain how to Song Weave (or whatever it's called) to me? I know what it does, I'm just looking for some technique pointers.
All that said, I'm not 100% committed to the Blade yet. What do you like about the other kits? or just tell me what you like about bards in general!
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Comments
If you mean Song Twist by Song Weave - having the effects of the song linger while you do something else, then continue singing to have the effect not interrupted, that does work with micromanagement and paying close attention to the round's end and how long your actions take. Not really worth bothering with in most battles though.
The kit I play and prefer out of all charnames I had so far is Jester. It's the closest to an actual bard - full lore and pickpocketing - and still has a unique feel due to the very different, offensive nature of the song. You can sing while being invisible, which is the core of the way I play jesters. They are the ideal disablers and crowd controllers. The spell selection would be Sleep, Glitterdust, Greater Malison, Emotion: Hopelessness and of course Invisibility in any version you can get. I often scout with my invisible, singing jester. Hostile groups often get confused and start killing each other, which is funny. Downside: You don't get XP from enemies that kill each other. Upside: Usually, it's only low XP minions doing that and you still get to kill the now defenseless, easily interrupted boss of the mob.
The song ignores magic resistance, so you can basically cast Confusion on otherwise resistant enemies. It can be very lulzy, i.e. confusing a tana'ri. I have yet to test if I can confuse Drizzt.
The alignment of choice is Neutral Evil, to summon extra HP and Glitterdust with Find Familiar (Dust Mephit, 1 x Glitterdust/2 x Glassdust).
The high charisma + cloak of algernon + tome + friends spell easily gets you to best price range and above, even from minimum charisma (15), which makes up for the higher store prices and lower reputation (though, if you go the "smart evil" route and stick to 18 rep, the difference isn't notable).
I'm not a powergamer, so most of my choices are equal parts "makes sense for RP" and "effectiveness".
Weapons of choice: Mace (for Stupifier, RP reasons), Darts (effective & RP, most used: Darts of Stunning), Dagger (for Dagger of Venom, sorta RP-reason to resemble a stealthy backstabber - though bards don't get a backstab multiplier, using the Invisibility as core strategy makes the jester closer to an assassin than a dual wielding fighter. This is likely different for Blades.)
I have this vision of blocking a doorway, going into Defensive Stance and Song Twisting enhanced bard song (with a Mislead copy behing me stacking the song) while the baddies flail against my impenetrable defenses. *Feel free to crush my dreams if that doesn't make sense*
You make a strong case for Jester...sounds super fun. I wish enhanced bard song didn't take the place of the confusion song. Or is the Jester's song even effective in ToB?
That would work...technically...but not till 24+ since the blade's default song is useless...much like the pre-15 bard song.
I don't know about Defensive Stance and starting to sing, never played a Blade. I'll try it in Black Pits, though I'm not sure I've seen Mislead in the spell store there.
You can in fact start singing after you pop Defensive Spin. Note that Defensive Spin is simply a buff you gain after activating the ability, it is not a "stance" like Bard Song or Turn Undead that is on/off and will be cancelled by doing other things.
Also of note: being under the effect "Free Action" allows you to move while in Defensive Spin. Yes, this works, unless one of your mods fixes it (some do). It's up to you how much you regard this an "exploit" >_> Yes. Imo Blade is quite versatile because you don't lose too much offensive/defensive potential for your party. Popping Tenser's Transformation and going into Offensive Spin can be quite effective. For defensive purposes, I like a Blade using Jansen's Adventure Wear with Defender of Easthaven; that's quite a lot of passive damage reduction, which combined with the amazing AC during Defensive Spin allows your Blade to tank quite well.
Also of note is that once you get the Improved Bard Song HLA, the weaker song of the Blade is fully replaced, meaning it's just not a disadvantage anymore. The reduced lore/pickpocket scores aren't exactly a big hit to begin with, so Blade's have very few downsides, if any. They are widely regarded the most powerful Bard kit.
That being said, it all depends on what you do with your game. If you have a powergaming setup with all the difficult mods, such considerations may play a vital role in your party-building process. If you play an umodded vanilla game however, you may want to take a more RP-oriented approach and take what you WANT to play. You may just end up having more fun that way!
Ohh and also gives me a nice 'Heroic Epic' RP theme of putting together a party fit for a new Epic (in the Nordic tradition).
I know ToB enemies have crazy THAC0... how low would one's AC actually need to be to avoid being hit? I can see getting all the way down to -30 AC with a Blade's abilities. Would that "cut it"? (lol, Blade puns)
I wouldn't really consider myself a full-on powergamer. I do enjoy min/maxing stats and generally making my charname as strong as possible, and I'm not opposed to using the occasional cheese strategy. BUT I still like having an RP vision for each of my playthroughs.
As @Lord_Tansheron says, items with damage reduction are also invaluable in making each hit less damaging.
A combination of defensive spells, defensive spin and damage reduction items is what makes Blades solid TOB tanks.
Str 18
Dex 18
Con 15 (easy to raise to 16 with a tome)
Int 13 (will batch memorise spells using two potions of Genius to get 97% learn, and 9 spells/level is plenty for a bard)
Wis 7 (-10 lore, but will raise to 10 Wis +/- 0 lore by end game)
Cha 15 (still gets to 21 Cha and max store discount with Friends)
I picked Scimitars and Crossbows at level 1 and will pick dual-wield at levels 4 and 8. Will pick Katanas first in BG2EE...
Planned party is CHARNAME, Ajantis (with Dex gloves), Branwyn (might replace with Yeslick, but his Dex sucks and Ajantis will have the Dex gloves, Kivan (will probably replace with Coran), Imoen (not dualled), Neera (maybe replace with Xan after I've done her quest, so I'll rescue him from the mines at Level 3 before taking Kivan).
I picked the posh British voiceset (Male5) for him, and see him as a stylish dandy :-)
I was going to play my next party-based game as a norse-type Skald (Axes, Crossbow, Hammers), and they have an awesome party-buff song, but found a Skald too passive to be fun as CHARNAME.
This what what my Skald, Uhtred, looked like:
Am also playing a duo run with a Neutral Evil Jester and just Safana, Alessandro, which is quite fun, though trickier to play than a Blade:
He's perfect for hefting a Composite Longbow!
Thanks for the correction!
Out of curiosity @Oxford_Guy - what, in your opinion, puts crossbows ahead of bows in BG2? (Also, all your Bards look/sound awesome!)
I can't decide.
Dagger +TWF***?
Mace +TWF***?
Scimitar +TWF***?
Another weapon +TWF***?
One of the above but 1 less TWF and a ranged weapon? If so what ranged weapon?
Staff+Bow+THF+Gsword?
I realise any of the above can work but I'm considering an insane, no reloads, no resurrection challenge so curious what is likely to give me the best chance of completion.
Also see:
http://www.gamebanshee.com/baldursgateii/equipment/crossbows.php
Also, in BG2 vanilla (though its possible this may change in BGEE) only shortbows (Gesen) and crossbows (Firetooth) have options that hit as +4 (or greater) weapons and don't require ammo. Longbows require magic ammo, and you can't get the +3 ammo until late and there is no quiver of plenty > +2. Also in BG2 (though again this may change) a +x bow is only +x to hit, it does not do +x damage, whereas a crossbow does.
In BGEE with offensive spin Blades can get 3 APR with the lightcrosbow of Speed or 2 APR with the Heavy Crossbow of Accuracy with *full* damage for each hit (remember the max damage of a crossbow is more than a bow)
Lastly, crossbows seem more "bard-like" to me. Thanks, I like to RP them a bit in my head, so like them to look the part! :-)
I was less satisfied with Uhtred, my Skald, partly as I had to roll about 50 times to get those stats (and humans are harder to roll high for than half-elfs, but I wanted him to be a human), so it felt a but cheesy, whereas for my Blade and Jester I just picked the best of 20 rolls.
For my Blade I was tossing up between skipping a ranged weapon entirely and going Scimitars * + TWF*** or going Scimitars * + Crossbows * then TWF ** - in the end I chose the latter, because ranged is so useful in BGEE and a Blade with Light Crossbow of Speed and Offensive Spin is *nasty*.
Bards can also benefit from the Zerth Blade Katana, which gives extra spells (and -1AC), but you lose them when you unequip it (e.g. to switch to ranged), which is annoying, though you could just cast some long lasting/utility spells from it at the start of the day (e.g. Stoneskin, Invisibiliy, Identify etc.), then unequip it.
[BTW the are also some gloves available for Bards (only) in BG2 that add extra spells, as well as other bard-specific items. In BGEE there is only one Bard-specific item, in Ulgoth's Beard, but it's quite cool]
If playing evil, there is a very nice longsword available in BG2...
Your "underdogs" are amazingly interesting!
I bet you'll like your jester more (than a blade). Of course, a blade is more powerful but he is more linear also. And jester's song is unique indeed, it hasn't any similaritiesin BG.
"I picked the posh British voiceset (Male5) for him, and see him as a stylish dandy :-)" - well, I'm a bit confused. Does he have some French heritage (because of -SebastiEN)? And in the same time, the British voice... If you're living in an English-speaking country, most people will automatically spell the name as SebastiAN. There's an intriguing story that surrounds your new bard, isn't there?)))
BTW my Jester wields a +3 Staff or +2 Dagger of Venom, if facing casters, and also has a shortbow (as am just duo-ing with Safana, no one else in my party is using shortbow)
Another thing that is quite fun about the Jester is that his high pickpockets value (80% at level 5) allows him to steal loot back from stores easily (though I usually use a potion of Master Thievery to help), so I always try to sell high value loot at stores that are relatively easy to steal back from (Nashkel Carnival and Nashkel store, mostly), though not everywhere you can steal from will buy all goods (e.g. wands can be tricky) and only one store in Baldur's Gate City will buy stolen goods.
Also, whenever buying high value items (this applies for *any* bard) I always cast Friends first, to get the max 75% store discount (which kicks in at 20 Charisma). Yes, I'm aware of the odd spelling (my wife is French BTW), I think I had in mind someone whose ancestors were noble émigrés who fled from a peasant revolt or something, so exotic aristocratic heritage, but bankrupt!
I think I'm going to enjoy my Blade just as much as my Jester, but he won't really come into his own until BG2.
No, he still thinks of himself as posh....
Level 1
Shortsword * (easy to get +2 shortsword early on)
TWF * (use a buckler until level 4)
Level 4
TWF **
Level 8
Scimitars (using the +2 Rashad's Talon you can get mid-game or one or both of Drizzt's Scimitars).
This is also perhaps better for a non-good Blade, as you can only use one of Drizzt's Scimitars, but can get a +3 shortsword late game (and the early +2 one is not shabby!)
Actually I'm tempted to re-spec my blade like this myself (using EEkeeper), though having a ranged weapon is very useful in BGEE.
If I was playing elf fighter/mage I definitely wouldn't bother with putting any pips into bows, as you only get -1 To Hit (-0 if using a long/composite bow) as an elf (+1 bow bonus) fighter class (-2 for using a weapon without proficiency) for using a bow without proficiency, but a half-elf Bards would get -3 To Hit (no elf bow bonus, -3 for a rogue using a weapon without proficiency), -2 with a longbow - though this still might be viable if using the +3 Deadshot Bow (though unless soloing, this is likely to be better used by another NPC), giving +1 THAC0 overall (before Dex) or with the +5 (to hit, not damage) Heavy Crossbow of Accuracy (giving +3 THAC0 overall (before Dex).