If Mac users want mods for their platform I think it's fair to ask that they (one/some of them) help out making it possible to do, also if it was that important for sales, I'd think OH would have an interest in making it easier to do.
Would just like to add though that if no one asked for a Mac WeiDU, how would that someone with the technical know-how actually realise this was in demand? You can't blame people for asking as long as the asking is polite.
Hah, always nice to hear how a bit of support for other platforms ends up in comments such as 'Go learn coding yourself'. As if it is that easy. I already have trouble working with Microsoft Excel. It's like a plumber telling you to fix your own pipelines yourself. Quite ironic.
It's more along the lines of the plumber looking at the pipes and going 'Lady, I have no idea how these non-euclydian structures work, they're no pipes I'm familiar with so I can't help you, either ask someone else or do it yourself.' Also, you're not paying the plumber so he's already doing you a favor for looking. Can't really blame him if he's not willing to also devote time to figuring out how something new an unfamiliar works as an extra service on top of that. That's not elitism, that's pretty normal.
I'm sure it'll be available on iPad someday. Developing BG1 or BGEE is an important first step, even if that's obviously not the reason why this step is being taken.
Hah, always nice to hear how a bit of support for other platforms ends up in comments such as 'Go learn coding yourself'. As if it is that easy. I already have trouble working with Microsoft Excel. It's like a plumber telling you to fix your own pipelines yourself. Quite ironic.
It's more along the lines of the plumber looking at the pipes and going 'Lady, I have no idea how these non-euclydian structures work, they're no pipes I'm familiar with so I can't help you, either ask someone else or do it yourself.' Also, you're not paying the plumber so he's already doing you a favor for looking. Can't really blame him if he's not willing to also devote time to figuring out how something new an unfamiliar works as an extra service on top of that. That's not elitism, that's pretty normal.
Just to follow up on this: unless I'm missing something, there is absolutely no ethical obligation on anyone doing modding to make anything available for anyone. This is an unpaid hobby, not a paid career or a charitable activity. I, at least, do it because it's interesting, do those bits of it that I find interesting, and stop doing it when I don't find it interesting. (I originally gave a one-month ETA on a BG:EE version of SCS because I thought I'd find some time to mod over Christmas. Actually I ended up getting very into a different game and so decided to leave it till later. I don't feel any guilt at all about this.)
I'll concede that once you've released a product, there is a certain obligation to fix bugs and problems with it, but even that is somewhat limited. I don't see any obligation at all to make it available on other platforms. (Equally, there's nothing at all wrong with asking, but there are more and less productive ways.)
Virtually all modern mods use a program called WEIDU, which takes as input a sequence of commands and, on the basis of those commands, copies and patches various files. To a good approximation, then, converting a mod to OSX is a matter of converting WEIDU to OSX. With an OSX version of the current WEIDU available, the remaining conversion tasks are mostly straightforward.
WEIDU is written in a language called OCAML, which is a functional programming language not widely used outside academia. I have very little idea what is involved in compiling an OCAML program on OSX as opposed to Windows (and very little fluency in OCAML).
WEIDU was originally written by Wes Weimer, who is long since retired from the modding scene. For many years it was maintained and expanded on by TheBigg, but TheBigg has also largely retired from modding. This was slightly unfortunate timing and partly explains why mods have been relatively slow to adapt to the BG:EE environment even on Windows. Wisp has begun looking after WEIDU and is the current best person to ask about it. Discussion of WEIDU mostly happens at forums.pocketplane.net.
Having said all this, there's probably no point thinking how to convert WEIDU to OSX without having at least a rough idea of how it works in mods in general. So I suppose the starting point is: crack open a mod and see how it works. Choose something modern but not too complicated from a coding point of view; a recent NPC mod, maybe. Or look at the thread Wisp set up on this forum with a toy WEIDU mod.
If I'm not mistaken, there's an OSX binary for WeiDU that can be found here. Don't know if v231 is the latest version or not, but it'd be a start, at least. If Wisp has become the next in line as keeper-of-WeiDU, might be good to check with him to see what version they're up to and where the latest source code is kept, if not in TheBigg's github repo.
Also, there's an (admittedly ancient) tutorial @CamDawg once put together for converting WeiDU mods to OSX at SHS (originally from Gibberlings3, I believe). As a still-active member of the community, maybe he could point some aspiring mod converters in the right direction.
I don't have a Mac to actually test any of this out, but from the looks of things, this is hardly the first time that Mac users have wanted to get in on some WeiDU goodness, so there's hope! Tragically, the site that appears to have been the Mac modders' hangout ("Balduran's Adventurin' Spa & Grille") no longer exists, but if nothing else there HAS been some work done and Mac users won't have to start completely from scratch.
If I'm not mistaken, there's an OSX binary for WeiDU that can be found here. Don't know if v231 is the latest version or not, but it'd be a start, at least.
That's a PowerPC binary, which won't work on modern Intel macs.
Thanks everyone! I'm sorting out the last few bits and pieces at the moment, and I'll be sending out the first messages over the next few days.
Re: a Mac version for BG:EE -- this isn't going to happen yet, I'm afraid. I don't have the technical know-how or resources to pull it off, and unfortunately don't have the time to learn. Recompiling WeiDU is not a simple process on a Mac, and additionally, that's not the only change that needs to be made for it to work.
If there are some Mac geniuses out there who are keen to help out with WeiDU, let @Wisp know. I'm sure he'd appreciate the help.
I don't know if this is still up to date, but I am willing to test out this mod. I can speak french and english, could even work on a translation if needs be, and am used to the CLUAconsole and did minor modding too.
Super encouraging to see that anti-Mac flame wars still exist. Thank God I run both operating systems so I can do whatever I want and not involve myself in these politics. Feh.
Been away from the forums for a while due to RL stuff, has there been progress on this mod? Would love to have a playthrough this summer now that schools out for me
" Just to follow up on this: unless I'm missing something, there is absolutely no ethical obligation on anyone doing modding to make anything available for anyone. This is an unpaid hobby, not a paid career or a charitable activity. I, at least, do it because it's interesting, do those bits of it that I find interesting, and stop doing it when I don't find it interesting."
You touch on an interesting point @DavidW. If there was a profit motive in creating mods desirable to a large enough group of players, then wouldn't it benefit both modders and players? Wouldn't more good mods start to become available thereby increasing the enjoyment of the players? If there was no profit in selling toilet paper (pardon the example, but this is what happened in the old USSR), then wouldn't there be long lines for the stuff, and very little of it available?
@franco Money isn't a good motivator for people in general. And there is down side too, once you start getting money for doing something, you feel obligated to do patches, provide support and such things. It changes the whole nature of doing things. It often kills the fun in what was supposed to be hobby and entertainment. This isn't true for everybody, but for many it is.
@Bercon, I think that the modders already feel some obligation to do patches and provide some initial support. But I hope we can agree to disagree. Aside from the desire to create, I think money adds to the motivation. Unfortunately, in recent years people have been conditioned to look at profit as some kind of selfish thing. But there are truly long respected schools of economics that show that it creates the best and most abundant outcome for both the developers and the consumers.
Comments
Also, you're not paying the plumber so he's already doing you a favor for looking. Can't really blame him if he's not willing to also devote time to figuring out how something new an unfamiliar works as an extra service on top of that.
That's not elitism, that's pretty normal.
BG1NPC is indeed excellent.
Me neither.
I'll concede that once you've released a product, there is a certain obligation to fix bugs and problems with it, but even that is somewhat limited. I don't see any obligation at all to make it available on other platforms. (Equally, there's nothing at all wrong with asking, but there are more and less productive ways.)
I'm probably never going to have the time to do so, I am just curious where I might start if I could.
WEIDU is written in a language called OCAML, which is a functional programming language not widely used outside academia. I have very little idea what is involved in compiling an OCAML program on OSX as opposed to Windows (and very little fluency in OCAML).
WEIDU was originally written by Wes Weimer, who is long since retired from the modding scene. For many years it was maintained and expanded on by TheBigg, but TheBigg has also largely retired from modding. This was slightly unfortunate timing and partly explains why mods have been relatively slow to adapt to the BG:EE environment even on Windows. Wisp has begun looking after WEIDU and is the current best person to ask about it. Discussion of WEIDU mostly happens at forums.pocketplane.net.
Having said all this, there's probably no point thinking how to convert WEIDU to OSX without having at least a rough idea of how it works in mods in general. So I suppose the starting point is: crack open a mod and see how it works. Choose something modern but not too complicated from a coding point of view; a recent NPC mod, maybe. Or look at the thread Wisp set up on this forum with a toy WEIDU mod.
Also, there's an (admittedly ancient) tutorial @CamDawg once put together for converting WeiDU mods to OSX at SHS (originally from Gibberlings3, I believe). As a still-active member of the community, maybe he could point some aspiring mod converters in the right direction.
I don't have a Mac to actually test any of this out, but from the looks of things, this is hardly the first time that Mac users have wanted to get in on some WeiDU goodness, so there's hope! Tragically, the site that appears to have been the Mac modders' hangout ("Balduran's Adventurin' Spa & Grille") no longer exists, but if nothing else there HAS been some work done and Mac users won't have to start completely from scratch.
Good luck!
Re: a Mac version for BG:EE -- this isn't going to happen yet, I'm afraid. I don't have the technical know-how or resources to pull it off, and unfortunately don't have the time to learn. Recompiling WeiDU is not a simple process on a Mac, and additionally, that's not the only change that needs to be made for it to work.
If there are some Mac geniuses out there who are keen to help out with WeiDU, let @Wisp know. I'm sure he'd appreciate the help.
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/16185/trying-to-compile-weidu-in-mac-osx
@Kaeloree I split the discussion before it fully derails the topic.
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/15979/howto-modding-bgee-on-the-ipad/p1
Good luck guys!
Have fun, everyone!
Edit: and inquiring about it is perfectly fine, being offended/annoyed isn't
" Just to follow up on this: unless I'm missing something, there is absolutely no ethical obligation on anyone doing modding to make anything available for anyone. This is an unpaid hobby, not a paid career or a charitable activity. I, at least, do it because it's interesting, do those bits of it that I find interesting, and stop doing it when I don't find it interesting."
You touch on an interesting point @DavidW. If there was a profit motive in creating mods desirable to a large enough group of players, then wouldn't it benefit both modders and players? Wouldn't more good mods start to become available thereby increasing the enjoyment of the players? If there was no profit in selling toilet paper (pardon the example, but this is what happened in the old USSR), then wouldn't there be long lines for the stuff, and very little of it available?