Archer Build stats prof etc.

Fiach

Where should I put my points in Archer, do I need any in INT or WIS for spells?

Will be a pure archer.

I have a roll of 92 on an Elf. Will an extra point in CON eg. 17 Offset the -1CON?

Thanks in advance for any advice

Madhax

Nice roll.

The main thing you'll want is as much dexterity as possible, which means 19 DEX for an elven archer.

Strength and Constitution come next. With 92 total stats, you can max both (though you don't necessarily need to max strength).

The elven -1 CON bonus is what brings your max CON down to 17, so you aren't negating anything. Still, 17 CON is good to have, since as a warrior-class, archers benefit from constitutions of any level.

Intelligence has no immediate purpose for a ranger. You'll probably want about 10, since that will let you read priest scrolls and eventually push it to 11 with a tome to defend against certain enemies in BG2. But you could dump it entirely if you wanted without much loss.

Wisdom does nothing for a ranger. Drop it to the ranger minimum (about 14, if memory serves).

That leaves you with charisma and strength. Neither are of too much use for a ranger, and both are easily replaced with outside magical assistance. I'd probably max strength out, for melee scenarios as well as for equipping composite longbows and carrying heavy loads.

As far as proficiencies go, choose a bow type and stick with it. Since you get another two pips at level 1 that you can't stack in bow, I'd either go some 2-handed melee weapon and 2-handed style, or a 1-handed melee weapon and single-weapon style for a more defensive option. Swords are recommended to take advantage of the Elf's natural bonuses.

Fiach

Thanks Madhax, I had to re-roll as I lost my save due to a bug and managed a 94 on my second character, so it was a silver lining in that cloud

I went with scimitar as I can get a couple of decent ones early in game and longbow for Deadshot and darts, would dual wield be an option or should I go sword n board, as oposed to two hand weapons, do you think?

Thanks for all the help

Madhax

Either sword and board or dual-wield means you'll have to pause and enter the inventory every time you swap between melee and ranged. I hate this, though others don't mind as much.

Because of that, I usually instead go single-weapon with a longsword or scimitar for my archer. More offense and comparable defense to a shield in BG1 that way, and no hassle when swapping weapons.

Fiach

Madhax said:

Either sword and board or dual-wield means you'll have to pause and enter the inventory every time you swap between melee and ranged. I hate this, though others don't mind as much.

Because of that, I usually instead go single-weapon with a longsword or scimitar for my archer. More offense and comparable defense to a shield in BG1 that way, and no hassle when swapping weapons.

Cool, thanks Madhax

Oxford_Guy

Madhax said:

Either sword and board or dual-wield means you'll have to pause and enter the inventory every time you swap between melee and ranged. I hate this, though others don't mind as much.

Because of that, I usually instead go single-weapon with a longsword or scimitar for my archer. More offense and comparable defense to a shield in BG1 that way, and no hassle when swapping weapons.

Or for more offense but less defense two-handed is also a viable option for an archer, and better than single weapon style in BG2, where doing more damage is more important than AC

BTW currently elves get their +1 THAC0 bonus for *all* swords, not just longswords...

PawnSlayer

If you're playing through BG2 and Throne of Bhaal, then eventually you will need points in Crossbow if you want to hit late game enemies. The best arrows in the game are +3 and they're rare and finite. There's a crossbow that hits at +4 and +5 though, so you'll find yourself needing it eventually.

That doesn't really take effect until the second half of BG2 though, so I'd still get to GM in Long Bow and two stars in Two Handed Weapon first.

DKnight

Im going to role-play some kind of bard or thief class that uses ranged weapons. I know that archers are the best in ranged, but I want to try something fun and bg (even after 3 years of a break) is still fun. I was wondering if anyone's used a jester with confusion from their curse song? Is confusion useful late in the game or is it just as bad as in bg2.

In bg2 (if I can remember) the confusion from that song is +4. However in this game, the manual says its +2 which is actually not so bad. Im not saying this will work all the time but has anyone managed to get a jester through the game with a full party?

Fiach

PawnSlayer said:

If you're playing through BG2 and Throne of Bhaal, then eventually you will need points in Crossbow if you want to hit late game enemies. The best arrows in the game are +3 and they're rare and finite. There's a crossbow that hits at +4 and +5 though, so you'll find yourself needing it eventually.

That doesn't really take effect until the second half of BG2 though, so I'd still get to GM in Long Bow and two stars in Two Handed Weapon first.

Thanks Pawnslayer, I didnt know about that, cheers

JuliusBorisov

DKnight said:

Im going to role-play some kind of bard or thief class that uses ranged weapons. I know that archers are the best in ranged, but I want to try something fun and bg (even after 3 years of a break) is still fun. I was wondering if anyone's used a jester with confusion from their curse song? Is confusion useful late in the game or is it just as bad as in bg2.

In bg2 (if I can remember) the confusion from that song is +4. However in this game, the manual says its +2 which is actually not so bad. Im not saying this will work all the time but has anyone managed to get a jester through the game with a full party?

[calls @Oxford_Guy here]
He's a real expert in using bards and jesters especially! No single piece of knowledge is hidden from him! Oxford_Guy to jesters is like Elminster to wizards)

Oxford_Guy

DKnight said:

Im going to role-play some kind of bard or thief class that uses ranged weapons. I know that archers are the best in ranged, but I want to try something fun and bg (even after 3 years of a break) is still fun. I was wondering if anyone's used a jester with confusion from their curse song? Is confusion useful late in the game or is it just as bad as in bg2.

In bg2 (if I can remember) the confusion from that song is +4. However in this game, the manual says its +2 which is actually not so bad. Im not saying this will work all the time but has anyone managed to get a jester through the game with a full party?

I've played with an (evil) Jester, though not in a full party, just in a duo run with only Safana. @KidCarnival has played a Jester with a full (evil) party, I think. They're quite fun and the +2 to saves means they're much more effective than they used to be, especially if you soften up the enemy first with save-reducing spells like Doom, Glitterdust, and especially Greater Malison, though even without these, minion enemies still often get confused. Unfortunately the Neutral Evil Dust Mephit Familiar can no longer cast Glitterdust in BGEE (it will be able to in BG2EE, though), just the inferior Glass Dust, though your ofther casters (including your Jester his/herself) can, of course. Invisibility is also great as a Jester as singing does not break invisibility, so you can wonder into groups of enemies and really mess them up (they usually end up attacking each other), though I think this works better with a party, than solo or duo, as you need ranged weapons NPCs to pick of the enemies who wander off. You *don't* get XP for enemies who kill each other, but this is usually only the minions, and the amount of XP "lost' won't be huge usually.

BTW Jester song bypasses magic resistance, which can be useful!

The Jester's full pickpockets and lore is nice, and you should definitely make the most of the former for maximum effect, especially for stealing from stores, once this gets to a decent level. Make sure you sell gems and high-value items to stores you can easily steal back rom later (e.g. most of the carnival stores). There is one store in the game which will buy (most, but not all) stolen goods:

Black Lilly's in Baldurs Gate

Also don't forget Bards can used wands and cast from scrolls whilst wearing armour, and can sell and buy back wands when they get t 1 charge to get them recharged (can be expensive, but you can reach 21 Charisma with the minimum 15 Bard Cha when using the Friends spell, and this gives the maximum 75% store discount, High reputation also helps, if non-evil. Or you can just steal them back, though not many stores that will buy wands can be stolen from, and this trick, i.e. stealing back, can only be done once per wand, as stores will not usually buy stolen goods back).

There is one set of armour in the game that allows casting in, but you have a to follow a particular NPCs questline to get this. You actually don't really need armour, though, early on you can use the lvel 1 Armour or the shorter-lasting, but much better Shield spell, and later there are even better spells for protecting yourself (Ghost Armour, Spirit Armour and the lastly the Awesome Stoneskin). You can also use the Shield Amulet, which can be bought quite cheaply early on and recharged when needed.

There is one Bard-specific magic item in BGEE, but many more in BG2, and they get a really fun stronghold quest there. The get the rogue high-level abilities at 3 million XP in BG2 (Level 24, I think), which include the awesome Use Any Item and Spike Trap (Bards can use this as if they had 100% Set Traps).

I think a Blade or Skald is probably a better bet for BG2, though, especially the former, which can out 3 pips into dual-wield.

NB: A Bard can get away with only Int 13 if you batch scribe scrolls using two potions of Genius to get 97% learn - 9 spells/level in your spell book is plenty for a bard. This way you can maximise Str, Dex and Con (only need 16 max though), though 15 is better, as you only need to use one potion of genius, which helps early on when short of gold and have limited access to potions.

You can buy potions of genius early on here:

The temple at the Friendly Arm Inn

For more Bard tips (especially Blades, though not exclusively) see:

EDIT: these links may contain some spoilers...

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/260903#Comment_260903
[I've provided details of 3 different Bard builds here, inlcuding screenshots - a Blade, a Jester and a Skald]

and

https://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/11081/blade-kit-builds/p1

Oxford_Guy

bengoshi said:

DKnight said:

Im going to role-play some kind of bard or thief class that uses ranged weapons. I know that archers are the best in ranged, but I want to try something fun and bg (even after 3 years of a break) is still fun. I was wondering if anyone's used a jester with confusion from their curse song? Is confusion useful late in the game or is it just as bad as in bg2.

In bg2 (if I can remember) the confusion from that song is +4. However in this game, the manual says its +2 which is actually not so bad. Im not saying this will work all the time but has anyone managed to get a jester through the game with a full party?

[calls @Oxford_Guy here]
He's a real expert in using bards and jesters especially! No single piece of knowledge is hidden from him! Oxford_Guy to jesters is like Elminster to wizards)

Thanks @bengoshi - though @KidCarnival is also very knowledgable and I've learned much from him

KidCarnival

I tested the waters with jesters and discovered a lot by accident and @Oxford_Guy noticed how that makes actual sense. I wouldn't say I'm knowledgable, I'm more like a mad scientist who pours liquids in a test tube because they result in a funny color, and Oxford then finds out it's actually a cure for cancer.

PawnSlayer

Fiach said:

PawnSlayer said:

If you're playing through BG2 and Throne of Bhaal, then eventually you will need points in Crossbow if you want to hit late game enemies. The best arrows in the game are +3 and they're rare and finite. There's a crossbow that hits at +4 and +5 though, so you'll find yourself needing it eventually.

That doesn't really take effect until the second half of BG2 though, so I'd still get to GM in Long Bow and two stars in Two Handed Weapon first.

Thanks Pawnslayer, I didnt know about that, cheers

No problem, it's a lesson I learned the hard way when I realised that my Archer - who got something like 85% of kills in BG1 - was finding himself less and less able to hurt things. The crossbow is a lot slower than the Composite Long Bow, so you'll still want to use it at anything vulnerable to +2 weapons, but eventually its best to switch. Luckily, I realised in time.

Assuming your first proficiency points all go into Long Bow (5 stars), a melee weapon (1 star) and two handed weapon style (2 stars) you'll max those out at level 12. Level 15 is a good time to then start putting them into crossbow, though technically you can still get to 5 stars in it if your first one is at level 21, assuming you hit the EXP cap in TOB.

For reference, the crossbow and its location are:

The Firetooth Crossbow +4, which does 1D8 +4 damage, +2 fire damage (with +6 Thac0 total, 4 from the bow, 2 from the fire) without needing ammunition. It can be bought from the shopkeeper outside Watcher's Keep, meaning you can get it really early on (costs about 9000 gold, so not hugely expensive either).

It can be upgraded to +5, which changes the +4 damage/Thac0 to +5. The upgrade requires the Bowstring of Gond, which you won't get until you kill Captain Egeissag in Sendai's Enclave.

DKnight

Thanks go to both of you. I ran a jester in rogue-rebalancing and it was a good deal due to the almost too good changes. This is not as potent of a mixture but an extra 2 off the normal bonus to save does help a decent amount. Forget melee, Im going with a crossbow or short bow and sniping any who get confused/near death. That is unless melee is even worth it. I used to use a bard in original bg1 and I don't think you can melee one with a party. It didn't work then as he was too weak even after souping up with great items.

It seems like only Fighters, rangers, barbarians, monks, and paladins are worth using in melee.

Oxford_Guy

DKnight said:

Thanks go to both of you. I ran a jester in rogue-rebalancing and it was a good deal due to the almost too good changes. This is not as potent of a mixture but an extra 2 off the normal bonus to save does help a decent amount.

Also you can still sing while invisible, I don't think Jesters could in Rogue Rebalancing

DKnight said:

Forget melee, Im going with a crossbow or short bow and sniping any who get confused/near death. That is unless melee is even worth it. I used to use a bard in original bg1 and I don't think you can melee one with a party. It didn't work then as he was too weak even after souping up with great items.

It seems like only Fighters, rangers, barbarians, monks, and paladins are worth using in melee.

Blades with offensive spin + dual-wield + Gauntlets of Weapon expertise are *nasty* in melee, I know, I'm playing one...

But Jesters, no, though I sometimes have mine do a sneak attack (at +4 THAC0) from invisibility with the Dagger of Venom....

KidCarnival

I gave Eldoth the dex gauntlets. Oh boy, can he melee! 16 str/15 con and now 18 dex... plus scimitar proficiency. And he's a rather medicore, non-kitted bard NPC.

DKnight

What about skalds? They would seem to be the best ranged weapon master from the bards. With 1 to hit and damage and a bard song that gives all allies -2 ac and 2 to hit and damage. Forget the jesters, I might go with a skald as that damage adds up whether for 1 round or a few. Plus, Im reading Chris Lee's gamefaqs guide and he says skalds damage bonuses for allies really add up. Might make sense.

Fafnir

I'm currently playing a Skald and she's a murder machine with the Deadshot bow. Off-casting doesn't hurt either.

Oxford_Guy

Skalds probably have the best song of all the Bards, and are a great asset to any melee-heavy party, but compared to Blades and Jesters I find them a bit passive and dull to play as CHARNAME.

[Deleted User]

PawnSlayer said:

If you're playing through BG2 and Throne of Bhaal, then eventually you will need points in Crossbow if you want to hit late game enemies. The best arrows in the game are +3 and they're rare and finite. There's a crossbow that hits at +4 and +5 though, so you'll find yourself needing it eventually.

That doesn't really take effect until the second half of BG2 though, so I'd still get to GM in Long Bow and two stars in Two Handed Weapon first.

There's also a shortbow that hits as a +4 weapon. The crossbow is still the only option against enemies that need +5 or better, but I believe those are fairly rare. Just something to keep in mind.

TJ_Hooker

Kaigen said:

PawnSlayer said:

If you're playing through BG2 and Throne of Bhaal, then eventually you will need points in Crossbow if you want to hit late game enemies. The best arrows in the game are +3 and they're rare and finite. There's a crossbow that hits at +4 and +5 though, so you'll find yourself needing it eventually.

That doesn't really take effect until the second half of BG2 though, so I'd still get to GM in Long Bow and two stars in Two Handed Weapon first.

There's also a shortbow that hits as a +4 weapon. The crossbow is still the only option against enemies that need +5 or better, but I believe those are fairly rare. Just something to keep in mind.

Just in case it's not clear from the above description, the shortbow in question requires no ammunition and automatically fires arrows that count as +4 in terms of what it can hit. There is also another shortbow that doesn't require ammunition that fires arrows that count as +3 in terms of what they can hit.

PawnSlayer

Kaigen said:

PawnSlayer said:

If you're playing through BG2 and Throne of Bhaal, then eventually you will need points in Crossbow if you want to hit late game enemies. The best arrows in the game are +3 and they're rare and finite. There's a crossbow that hits at +4 and +5 though, so you'll find yourself needing it eventually.

That doesn't really take effect until the second half of BG2 though, so I'd still get to GM in Long Bow and two stars in Two Handed Weapon first.

There's also a shortbow that hits as a +4 weapon. The crossbow is still the only option against enemies that need +5 or better, but I believe those are fairly rare. Just something to keep in mind.

Ah yes, forgot about those.

Incidentally, they are:

: The Gesen Bow that hits at +4, and the Tansheron that hits at +3

Either is a valid alternative to the crossbow, but still render the points in Longbow sadly useless, so you will need to go for Shortbow to get the best of those. If there were good shortbows in BG1 I'd perhaps recommend going straight for that (the +3 bow is available in Trademeet, so you can get it early) but unfortunately there aren't.

JuliusBorisov

It's untimely to judge if the points in Longbow are useless or not in BG2:EE.

I tend to think the devs will surely add some great longbows to the game. They added weapons to BG1 that completely changed the perception of some weapon specialization in BG1, for example, maces (Stupifier) and halberds (Crusher).

They'll do the same in BG2:EE and we'll have good longbows that will be alternatives to crossbows and shortbows at last.

Fiach

Thanks for those comments guys, either eay I feel I wont have wasted points, cheers

PawnSlayer

bengoshi said:

It's untimely to judge if the points in Longbow are useless or not in BG2:EE.

I tend to think the devs will surely add some great longbows to the game. They added weapons to BG1 that completely changed the perception of some weapon specialization in BG1, for example, maces (Stupifier) and halberds (Crusher).

They'll do the same in BG2:EE and we'll have good longbows that will be alternatives to crossbows and shortbows at last.

This is true, and I certainly hope there's a good Long Bow added. But I'm not commenting on the hypothetical situation in BG2 EE, but rather the existing BG 2 through which the saga can currently be played to its conclusion.

Obviously, some people will hold off playing through the second game until the enhanced version comes out, but many of us can't wait that long

Oxford_Guy

I'll be going crossbows as ranged options for my Bards...

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Fiach

Thats interesting Bhaaldog, Can a half orc romance viconia?

JuliusBorisov

Fiach said:

Thats interesting Bhaaldog, Can a half orc romance viconia?

She can romance a half-orc, not vice versa. If he dares to look at her, though.

Eadwyn_G8keeper

I read that Shortbow gets a Strength Bonus that Comp Long Bow does not and also higher APR. If so, how much does that Strength bonus power-up with Giant Strength Potions? Does not seem so far like the greater range of Longbow really matters all that much...

Kinda cool how much research and playtesting can be expanded. No reason at all why that can't be ur Main Motive in playing BG. Super-Q in D&D setting!!