[BUG] Shadow dancers bugs

qwert_44643

I was reading somewhere that shadow dancers are bugged and was wondering what is wrong with them and are they playable?

toanwrath

Expected Behavior: A level 5 Shadowdancer should have a backstab multiplier of x2.
Current Behavior: My level 5 Half-Orc Shadowdancer in The Black Pits is currently doing x3 damage on a backstab. In the text box it says "Backstab Triple Damage" and on my character sheet it says x3 multiplier.

Screenshots in about 5 minutes, just have to get a good screenshot of it as I wasn't focusing earlier.








Not that I mind this bug, but I assumed a balancing factor of the Shadowdancer was that it could not backstab as well as a normal thief (but it can backstab a ridiculous amount of times in a fight).

On another note, I am really liking Shadowdancer! :-D

neleothesze

Shadowdancer's special ability button is inactive and they cannot Set Snare Traps. Even at level 5 when they get their first ability (Shadowstep) the Set Snare ability is missing from the special ability menu / innate ability.

Shadowdancers should be able to select the Special Ability button from level 1 to Set Snare.

Bazza

Shadowdancer doesn't gain the +1 bonus to saves from Slippery Mind .

Only checked with a level 1 character so if the shadowdancer gets the bonus at level 5 maybe the kit description needs to be updated.

Bazza

The shadowdancer can put 2 pips into the axe proficiency at character creation, even when it can't use axes.

toanwrath

I saw that it was available, but I didn't realize two pips could be put in...

Also, to further elaborate, one can put two pips into Axe when creating a shadow dancer.
HOWEVER, when buying an Axe from Winthrop (even with 2 pips in Axe), they are still "redded" out (like they are not able to use it because of class) and cannot equip them.

Bottom Line: Don't be fooled, don't waste your Proficiency Points in Axe, you still can't use them!

toanwrath

Expected Behavior: As a thief kit, the Shadow Dancer should be able to click the special abilities icon and set traps just like any other thief.
Current Behavior: The special abilities icon is greyed out. Tested with 3 or 4 different shadow dancers, at levels 1 and level 5 (Black Pits), With and without ranks in set traps, with varying races and alignments and still couldn't get traps.





WOW , Shadow Dancer seems SUPER buggy!
I already posted a thread about how their backstab damage is incorrect:

https://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/16324/shadow-dancer-backstab-not-correct#latest

And posted a comment in a thread about how they can put 2 pips in Axe proficiency, but can't equip Axes (and of course thieves can't put two pips anywhere, and they can't put them in axes):

https://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/268235/#Comment_268235

And now this....was this Kit tested? It has a lot of glaring errors (still enjoyable, but mistakes are mistakes)

EDIT: If any Moderator wants to merge these threads into one continuous "Shadow Dancer Bugs" thread, I would not object.

toanwrath

Thanks for the merge mysterious Moderator who...moderates!

Anton

Hope that it was supposed to be dagger

Oxford_Guy

Anton said:

Hope that it was supposed to be dagger

That would be kind of cool and appropriate RP-wise

wild

@toanwrath
Was that screen taken with the stats as the picture before? I dont think you got any multiplier at all:
LS crit 8 x multiplier +strength =15 Ithink something is broken here but not sure you are getting the actual thief multiplier.

Oxford_Guy

wild said:

@toanwrath
Was that screen taken with the stats as the picture before? I dont think you got any multiplier at all:
LS crit 8 x multiplier +strength =15 Ithink something is broken here but not sure you are getting the actual thief multiplier.

If your minimum damage is 8, as your character sheet shows, you should be doing 16-30 dmage on a x2 backstab and 24-45 on a x3, no?

TheCoffeeGod

Oxford_Guy said:

wild said:

@toanwrath
Was that screen taken with the stats as the picture before? I dont think you got any multiplier at all:
LS crit 8 x multiplier +strength =15 Ithink something is broken here but not sure you are getting the actual thief multiplier.

If your minimum damage is 8, as your character sheet shows, you should be doing 16-30 dmage on a x2 backstab and 24-45 on a x3, no?

I'm pretty sure his low damage on that screen is because he's actually attacking a party member.
If you attack a non-party member the damage is much higher.
I relatively cloned his character as best I could and tried it out in Candlekeep.
As you can see, the damage is much higher.




The issue here, is that Shadowdancers are only suppose to get a x2 BS modifier from lvl 1-8 and don't hit x3 until 9+

Jace

Oxford_Guy said:

If your minimum damage is 8, as your character sheet shows, you should be doing 16-30 dmage on a x2 backstab and 24-45 on a x3, no?

Strength modifiers do not get multiplied when calculating backstab damage. As such, a half-orc with 19 Strength, a longsword and x3 backstab would roll a 1d8x3 + 7 (10 - 31).

Then again, I may be wrong, but that's how it feels to me.

Oxford_Guy

Jace said:

Oxford_Guy said:

If your minimum damage is 8, as your character sheet shows, you should be doing 16-30 dmage on a x2 backstab and 24-45 on a x3, no?

Strength modifiers do not get multiplied when calculating backstab damage. As such, a half-orc with 19 Strength, a longsword and x3 backstab would roll a 1d8x3 + 7 (10 - 31).

Then again, I may be wrong, but that's how it feels to me.

Ah yes, at least that's what's meant to happen.

The main issue, though, as the OP stated is whether Shadow Dancers are giving x3 backstab at Level 5 - they certainly shouldn't be!

Jace

As far as the screenshot with the backstabbed tutor is concerned, I noticed that tutors in Candlekeep get vastly increased damage from attacks. My puny test mage hit a tutor for 16 non-crit damage with his quarterstaff!

For the time being, don't test damage on tutors!

TheCoffeeGod

Jace said:

As far as the screenshot with the backstabbed tutor is concerned, I noticed that tutors in Candlekeep get vastly increased damage from attacks. My puny test mage hit a tutor for 16 non-crit damage with his quarterstaff!

For the time being, don't test damage on tutors!

-lol-
Fine, no tutors it is.
Will a Phlydia & Xzar BS satisfy? (damage: 28 & 31 respectively)
My point still stands though, the lack of damage in his screen is most likely due to him attacking a party member.

Dragonfolk2000

According to the character sheet of my 15th level shadowdancer, she has a x5 backstab.

Oxford_Guy

Dragonfolk2000 said:

According to the character sheet of my 15th level shadowdancer, she has a x5 backstab.

Is this just a character sheet display bug or do you seem to have x5 backstab in game too?

toanwrath

Sorry for delayed response, I was sleeping :-D
So it might just be from attacking a party member, but yes that was all the same character in my screenshots. Also, as earlier stated, strength bonuses might not be doubled to tripled hence the low-ish damage. But it does still say x3 when it should be x2 at level 5.

Jace

I don't understand where do you get the impression about the low-ish damage for attacking a party member. 15 damage to Agatha, 28 damage to Phlydia and 31 damage to Xzar all fall into the 1d8x3 + 7 damage range (which is 10 - 31). Even if there was some sort of damage reduction going on, it would be indicated like this, for example. "... 15 damage to Agatha ( 19 - 4 )" unless something else is amiss...

Anyway, in fact, the fact that we got results 28 and 31 indicates that they really get x3 backstab at such low levels and it's not just a text bug.

toanwrath

@Jace
Very good point, but what about the example where the tutor takes over forty damage? Or do tutors actually take extra damage?

Jace

toanwrath said:

@Jace
Very good point, but what about the example where the tutor takes over forty damage? Or do tutors actually take extra damage?

Tutor damage taken is weirdly inflated and I have no idea where to attribute it! Perhaps another bug?

TheCoffeeGod

toanwrath said:

Sorry for delayed response, I was sleeping :-D
So it might just be from attacking a party member, but yes that was all the same character in my screenshots. Also, as earlier stated, strength bonuses might not be doubled to tripled hence the low-ish damage.

STR bonuses aren't multiplied, they get added in after the fact.
I really only mentioned the the damage to party members part because the other person was questioning the damage and on that strike (because of the crit) your minimum damage should have been 20.

Fenghoang

At level 9 (x4 Backstabs), I'm getting 26 damage backstabs with 18 Str and Dagger of Venom. So that's max weapon (4+2), multipled by 4, and plus 2 from strength. This is all tested on Phlydia, Firebead, and the assassins in Candlekeep.

I'll have to say backstab isn't progressing correctly for Shadowdancer.

@Jace You'll do less damage to party members if you have the game difficulty set to Normal or Easy. Also, you do extra damage to tutors, peasants, nobles, etc. for some reason...

toanwrath

And I do have the difficulty set to normal, hence the less damage. That makes MUCH more sense, thanks all :-)

Dee

And Shadow Step can't be used during combat.

There's some kinks to work out, so if that's important to you, then maybe wait until the next patch.

TJ_Hooker

TheCoffeeGod said:

I'm pretty sure his low damage on that screen is because he's actually attacking a party member.
If you attack a non-party member the damage is much higher.
I relatively cloned his character as best I could and tried it out in Candlekeep.
As you can see, the damage is much higher.

Are you playing on less than Core difficulty? If you are, then it's not that non-party members are taking more damage, it's that party members are taking less damage.

qwert_44643

thanks everyone...gotta have my shadowdancers.

Aranthys

I'm pretty disappointed about the quality of this release, myself.

I can understand having some minor bugs in new features.
But these are glaring bugs, that should never have gone unseen. Anyone testing the class even once can see that it doesn't work properly.

If all of these can't be created properly from the get go due to time constraints, then just release less kits, but ensure that these DO work correctly.

And, please, ensure that you think about the balance of the kits you're creating ...
- Dwarven defender will be the most OP defensive kit in the game comes BG2.
- Shadow dancers beeing badly overpowered at higher levels (Lulz, Shadow Dancer 10 dualled to anything in BG2)

Shadow dancers were already stupidly powerful due to HIPS in the Neverwinter nights series, I just hope the same mistake won't be made in Baldur's Gate.

agris

Again, these are problems that would be quickly noticed and reported if there was a larger player base participating in the beta program. Opt-in beta would help beamdog.

Oh, and most of these bugs are related to the shadow dancer's 2da, which means a modder can fix them easily.