If Shadowdancers have three primary stats that must be 15 or higher to dual, I hope that gets reflected in their kit description at some point. It's very unusual.
If Shadowdancers have three primary stats that must be 15 or higher to dual, I hope that gets reflected in their kit description at some point. It's very unusual.
No it isn't. Rangers also have three primary stats.
If you include classes and kits that haven't had dual classing implemented yet, there are several more.
Does anyone else find it odd that, despite the description for CON specifically mentioning how it's important for Rangers, it's actually DEX (along with STR and WIS) that are the Ranger's prime attributes (or at least the attributes required for dual classing)?
Forgive me if this is already reported. I haven't been on in a while.
Expected behavior: Shadowdancer backstab progresses as stated in the kit description. Current behavior: I used CLUA to give my SD 161k exp to test the feasibility of the class. My shadowdancer could backstab for 4x damage upon leveling up.
Shouldn't the multiplier max out at 3x damage? I did the all the levels at once (level 1 to level 10) so I don't know exactly how the multiplier is progressing currently.
Forgive me if this is already reported. I haven't been on in a while.
Expected behavior: Shadowdancers can't use axes so no proficiency would be offered for that weapon upon creation/leveling. Current behavior: Upon character creation and leveling axe proficiency is offered for Shadowdancers.
The saving throw bonues for slipper mind are not applying. The reason as I see it, is that the AP spell SPSD01 has a required level of 5 in the extended effects, and it's applied to the player at level 1. CLAB abilities do not apply themselves retroactively at level-up. Only if you hotwire via script, using AddKit(I:KIT) can you get the full "from level 1" package to apply all at once.
Even if the intent was to not apply the bonuses until level 5, you could still set the spell's required level to 1 and just apply the AP_SPSD01 at level 5 instead and it would work fine. When I did this locally, the spell worked fine and you saw the effects listed in the GAM file character.
On the good side, my tests show that Hide in Plain Sight is working fine in combat, and can be initiated via a player AI script for nice appropriate effect. In my script, I had to use a 6-second cooldown timer because the script action Hide() does not apply the Disable GUI Button effect like manual Hide selection does. We found on the NWN servers that HiPS was too unbalancing powerful unless tempered this way; your SD-rogue effectively becomes a backstabbing blink-dog of doom, nearly impervious to counter-attack. Even with the cooldown it's a very powerful ability.
The bug with backstabbing multipliers can be easily fixed, without reiventing any cogs in the game engine. If the devs wish to externalize the backstabbing system into a nice softcoded 2da format that's fine, by me but a simpler 'available now' fix is possible. I've tested it locally and it works nicely.
Make a new Spell file for the SD abilities (e.g., SPSD03.spl). You can use SPCL332.spl as a base, it's the spell that grants assassins 6x backstab at level 17 and 7x at level 21. But instead of cumulative modifier +1, change it to cumulative modifer -1 (penalty). Open the CLABTH05.2da and assign your spells to the next available row as an AP_**** ability at levels 5 and 13 (AP_SPSD03 in my example).
What this does is nullify the hardcoded thief backstab bonuses at these levels. By doing this you have 2x multiplier at levels 1-8, and 3x multipliers at levels 9+. Just like it reads on the label.
Thanks to info from @horredtheplague I was able to use NI to make a quick fix for the backstab and the slippery mind bugs. The fix I made for backstab applies itself at level up only works if you did not yet get the premature x3 backstab does not work yet. The fix for slippery DOES NOT affect already created characters, only newly created ones (though there is a work around with SK). If you can't wait for the next patch to try a more bugless shadowdancer then download the uploaded file and unzip the contents into your override folder. I would advise removing the files once a patch does come out so that you can have the official fixes.
@Aosaw you mentioned that shadowstep can't be used in combat... Is that intentional behavior? Because I went and fixed that one too thinking it was a bug (because, lets face it, it is pretty much pointless out of combat). Until I know for sure I'm keeping that one to myself.
@Tresset Shadowstep was intended to be usable during combat but not allow combat actions during the effect; the idea being that you can use it when a fight becomes too much, move out of the area, and then regroup or take to the shadows.
There are other applications, naturally, but that's how it's supposed to work.
OK. After realizing my backstab fix did not work at all (mainly because I figured editing a .2da called "backstab" would fix it (even though that file DID have an error in it)) I re-read @horredtheplague 's comments and realized that I was doing it wrong (I am still rather new to NI). So I figured that since a either a new file needs to be created or an unused file overwritten to "quick fix" this bug I would have to overwrite an unused file that comes standard to everyone's game for easy install. I picked the only one that I was 100% sure would probably(oxy moron) never be used again: The MDK2 spell. So after wrestling with the concept of "hex" for a few hours I finally figured out how to do -1 and got it to perform like I wanted it to. Due to the specific behavior required to get the fixes to apply themselves I will include a readme that you really should read.
I super seriously apologize for not testing my first uploads to anyone who downloaded them (especially those who choose not to have an account on this forum since I probably screwed you the most). I really like helping other people and sometimes get ahead of myself in such endeavors (I'm starting to realize why the devs have the job and I don't now...).
Disclaimer: Make SURE you remove all the files I provide you from your override folder once the official fix comes out. Official fix>>>>>>>Tresset fix. (can't find sign for infinity on keyboard)
(I will not post the DL until I get permission from someone important this time.)
I think I may have found another shadowdancer bug that to my knowledge has not yet been reported in this thread. Here goes:
I have a level 4 elven shadowdancer with 18 strength using a plain longsword. According to my character sheet, I do 3-10 damage, which seems accurate (1d8 + 2 from STR). Now, I'm right outside Friendly Arm Inn testing my backstabs on hobgoblins, and it would seem that they are bugged. When I backstab one of the hobgoblins, sometimes I do the expected double damage (for example: 16), but more often than not, it states that I've done double damage and then the hobgoblin I've backstabbed only takes 1 damage! This should be impossible, since even if STR bonus doesn't multiply the minimum backstab damage should be 4, but it has now occurred several times in a row.
It would be nice if you guys at OG could look into this. If necessary, send me a PM and I'll send you the save file so you can test it.
@dib I believe that the the Black Pits caps at level 10. For most classes this results in a higher xp cap than in the main campaign, but not for thieves or druids, as those 2 classes can already reach level 10 with the default cap of 161K xp.
Mechanics-wise, Shadowstep is similar to Time stop, since to an external observer you basically disappear from one place and instantaneously reappear elsewhere meaning that while Shadowstep is in effect, no rounds should pass. For some reason, however, my party members tend to lose their buffs while they should be time-frozen. I believe this should be considered a bug.
@Witiko That is an engine issue with the Timestop effect in general (and Shadowstep is basically a specialized version of Timestop). It has already been reported.
It's raised some deep existential questions in the office about the nature of time and our place in the universe. We'll probably spend some time over New Year's drinking thinking about this very issue.
Comments
Maybe it will be the same as for Blade with Improved Bard Song.
If you include classes and kits that haven't had dual classing implemented yet, there are several more.
Expected behavior: Shadowdancer backstab progresses as stated in the kit description.
Current behavior: I used CLUA to give my SD 161k exp to test the feasibility of the class. My shadowdancer could backstab for 4x damage upon leveling up.
Shouldn't the multiplier max out at 3x damage? I did the all the levels at once (level 1 to level 10) so I don't know exactly how the multiplier is progressing currently.
Expected behavior: Shadowdancers can't use axes so no proficiency would be offered for that weapon upon creation/leveling.
Current behavior: Upon character creation and leveling axe proficiency is offered for Shadowdancers.
They can't even use axes!
Even if the intent was to not apply the bonuses until level 5, you could still set the spell's required level to 1 and just apply the AP_SPSD01 at level 5 instead and it would work fine. When I did this locally, the spell worked fine and you saw the effects listed in the GAM file character.
On the good side, my tests show that Hide in Plain Sight is working fine in combat, and can be initiated via a player AI script for nice appropriate effect. In my script, I had to use a 6-second cooldown timer because the script action Hide() does not apply the Disable GUI Button effect like manual Hide selection does. We found on the NWN servers that HiPS was too unbalancing powerful unless tempered this way; your SD-rogue effectively becomes a backstabbing blink-dog of doom, nearly impervious to counter-attack. Even with the cooldown it's a very powerful ability.
Make a new Spell file for the SD abilities (e.g., SPSD03.spl). You can use SPCL332.spl as a base, it's the spell that grants assassins 6x backstab at level 17 and 7x at level 21. But instead of cumulative modifier +1, change it to cumulative modifer -1 (penalty). Open the CLABTH05.2da and assign your spells to the next available row as an AP_**** ability at levels 5 and 13 (AP_SPSD03 in my example).
What this does is nullify the hardcoded thief backstab bonuses at these levels. By doing this you have 2x multiplier at levels 1-8, and 3x multipliers at levels 9+. Just like it reads on the label.
Shadowstep was intended to be usable during combat but not allow combat actions during the effect; the idea being that you can use it when a fight becomes too much, move out of the area, and then regroup or take to the shadows.
There are other applications, naturally, but that's how it's supposed to work.
OK. After realizing my backstab fix did not work at all (mainly because I figured editing a .2da called "backstab" would fix it (even though that file DID have an error in it)) I re-read @horredtheplague 's comments and realized that I was doing it wrong (I am still rather new to NI). So I figured that since a either a new file needs to be created or an unused file overwritten to "quick fix" this bug I would have to overwrite an unused file that comes standard to everyone's game for easy install. I picked the only one that I was 100% sure would probably(oxy moron) never be used again: The MDK2 spell. So after wrestling with the concept of "hex" for a few hours I finally figured out how to do -1 and got it to perform like I wanted it to. Due to the specific behavior required to get the fixes to apply themselves I will include a readme that you really should read.
I super seriously apologize for not testing my first uploads to anyone who downloaded them (especially those who choose not to have an account on this forum since I probably screwed you the most). I really like helping other people and sometimes get ahead of myself in such endeavors (I'm starting to realize why the devs have the job and I don't now...).
Disclaimer: Make SURE you remove all the files I provide you from your override folder once the official fix comes out. Official fix>>>>>>>Tresset fix. (can't find sign for infinity on keyboard)
(I will not post the DL until I get permission from someone important this time.)
I have a level 4 elven shadowdancer with 18 strength using a plain longsword. According to my character sheet, I do 3-10 damage, which seems accurate (1d8 + 2 from STR). Now, I'm right outside Friendly Arm Inn testing my backstabs on hobgoblins, and it would seem that they are bugged. When I backstab one of the hobgoblins, sometimes I do the expected double damage (for example: 16), but more often than not, it states that I've done double damage and then the hobgoblin I've backstabbed only takes 1 damage! This should be impossible, since even if STR bonus doesn't multiply the minimum backstab damage should be 4, but it has now occurred several times in a row.
It would be nice if you guys at OG could look into this. If necessary, send me a PM and I'll send you the save file so you can test it.