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The Ethics of Opening a Door

[Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,675
edited March 2013 in Archive (General Discussion)
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  • MelicampMelicamp Member Posts: 243
    I would comment with some more substance but... I always play evil in Baldur's Gate. You would just miss out on too much RPing a good aligned character.
  • MoomintrollMoomintroll Member Posts: 1,498
    It's up to you to DM it.
    The game doesn't let you knock on the door to ask, but there is a good and helpful quest waiting for a noble adventurer, inside.

    By the game mechanics you pick the lock, I choose to interpret that as knocking on the door (in this instance), it would be unreasonable to assume that you can't knock on doors purely because the game doesn't let you.
  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    I tend to play a lot of CN charname to avoid or at least diminish some of these moral dilemmas but when playing a LG charname I do mostly avoid entering random houses and most other opportunities for general looting in town (random barrels etc) but I do make exceptions for places I am aware of like Josephs ring quest.
  • KenjiKenji Member Posts: 251
    Save yourself the trouble and roll a Neutral Evil Thief.

    Now yer good fer life.
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    Another evil player, and if I'm neutral or chaotic, I open doors as I see fit. As lawful evil character, I respect certain rules, for example property rights. I expect people to stay out of Kagain's unlocked shop and leave my stuff alone. I don't trust Garrick/Jaheira/Khalid/whoever I put there as guard, therefore I need to set an example and demonstrate the commoners that I will leave them alone if they leave my shop alone. At least that's the rp way to avoid some minor + rep quests.
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    I usually try to think "what would a DM allow/consider acceptable" regarding my alignment. This is one of the reasons I don't ever play Lawful Good, and rarely even Chaotic Good. On the other hand playing completely evil can get dispiriting, I don't always want to play despised scum. In my current active game I'm playing a Chaotic Neutral Blade and a mixed alignment party, though no Lawful Good nor Chaotic Evil. I feel this gives me scope for burglary, pick pocketing and shop-lifting, but try to avoid wanton murder.
  • DelvarianDelvarian Member Posts: 1,232
    My paladin would obviously be against picking the lock on the door of a house, luckily my paladin doesn't have that skill anyway, but any of the thief NPCs does and will gladly unlock the door while my paladins back is turned.
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,387
    You know I pretty much always play lawful or neutral good. That includes many Paladins and clerics. Really, those are my favorite characters.
    I do have to admit though, I probably don't role play locked doors very well. I never burgle, or steal from innocents (and I mean really never, I can't bring myself to swipe something behind locked doors that clearly isn't mine. Unless its some bad guy who's out to kill me). BUT, I turn a blind eye to my little sister's endless curiosity. Don't get me wrong, Imoen doesn't actually burgle either. But we often drop in on folks just to make sure all is well. I know its probably rude and intrusive. But hey, we've stopped actual thieves from robbing homes! (you all know the house, SE in Baldur's Gate) And many people seem to need our help running down stuff, finding lost kids, notes from husbands, rare books (for sale across the street!) etc.
    I figure in a real PNP game I'd never do things quite like that. But in BG, letting yourself in for a look around seems to do more good than harm, and of course my PC is always up for a good adventure. I just wish the game would let me re-lock the door behind me...
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    atcDave said:

    You know I pretty much always play lawful or neutral good. That includes many Paladins and clerics. Really, those are my favorite characters.
    I do have to admit though, I probably don't role play locked doors very well. I never burgle, or steal from innocents (and I mean really never, I can't bring myself to swipe something behind locked doors that clearly isn't mine. Unless its some bad guy who's out to kill me). BUT, I turn a blind eye to my little sister's endless curiosity. Don't get me wrong, Imoen doesn't actually burgle either. But we often drop in on folks just to make sure all is well. I know its probably rude and intrusive. But hey, we've stopped actual thieves from robbing homes! (you all know the house, SE in Baldur's Gate) And many people seem to need our help running down stuff, finding lost kids, notes from husbands, rare books (for sale across the street!) etc.
    I figure in a real PNP game I'd never do things quite like that. But in BG, letting yourself in for a look around seems to do more good than harm, and of course my PC is always up for a good adventure. I just wish the game would let me re-lock the door behind me...

    Well at least you don't let your Lawful Good/Neutral Good parties steal, from the sound of it.
  • AlexisisinneedAlexisisinneed Member Posts: 470
    Bhaaldog said:

    Dear Bhaalspawn, if you are roleplaying a lawful good character do you believe that it is ethically or morally correct to unlock a locked door to a house for example in Beregost or Nashkel?

    While the action could be perceived as a thief breaking into a house, the conundrum is in some circumstances you then receive a quest that if completed provides benefits to the inhabitants of those houses e.g. finding Joseph's ring for example.

    Thoughts & opinions welcome!

    Well I do unlock all the doors just too make sure there's no evil doers in the house. Also I might relieve certain innocent civilians of any dangerous or magical items that they might use to hurt themselves or others. Besides that wand of lighting in Beregost won't better the sword coast by sitting in drawer it's much better to be in Neera's cute little hands.

  • bbearbbear Member Posts: 1,180
    A good approach to this conundrum is to send your lawful good characters to somewhere else down the road. Then have the thief in the party to do the stuff.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    Well that's pretty obvious though. Only works for Lawful Stupid :D
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    FinneousPJ said:

    Well that's pretty obvious though. Only works for Lawful Stupid :D

    Quite...
  • AnduinAnduin Member Posts: 5,745
    I open every door and chest I find as my character NEEDS the practice...
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    It's a dilemma; there's a lot of good deeds that need doing, but a locked door stands in your way, and the people in need on the other side have no idea that you're willing and waiting to help them.
  • BigfishBigfish Member Posts: 367
    Pretty sure those doors are only there to justify bringing along a thief. Or to eat up all your level 2 spell slots.
  • AristilliusAristillius Member Posts: 873
    I play good aligned and often RP that someone inside the house has come out to lock us in, or we have heard rumors of a quest, or we hear disturbing noises inside if there are villans inside. I dont go house cleaning (stealing), however Imoen and Alora might pick up a few baubles from wealthy people =)
  • RhymeRhyme Member Posts: 190
    Was that door locked? I thought it was just one of those magical doors that gives you experience when you turn the knob!
  • Eadwyn_G8keeperEadwyn_G8keeper Member Posts: 541
    In the case of Joseph's Wife it is perfectly feasible [IMO which is on the tres-picky side] for Good Party with Ajantis [My current Charname is Chaotic Good] to Roleplay the following:

    Ajantis retires to meditate in the Temple of Helm. Not necessary to remove from party but while he is in retreat, Jaheira becomes Party Leader. Immediately her Practical Amorality focuses on the ramifications of Neira's assault at Nashkel Inn and the possibility that some time may be required to get to the bottom of the problem in the mines. The Party obviously needs to secure a Safe House where their comings and goings might be less public.

    Opening the lock is then actually mandated from a common sense point of view as an essential campaign strategy attempting to duplicate the Safe House in Beregost. That Beregost location is easily explained for me as a helpful tip from Firebead Elventair. I mean the Sweet old Codger has already contributed 600GP so he knows Charname and Co need all the help they can get....

    I am just about to complete Chapter 2 on my First Run so I dont know about other Locked doors in the Game. The theme of looking for a Safe House/Stash could be much expanded.

    My interest in rigorous play has however, recently been challenged by reading of the ridiculous XP payout for killing a certain innocent in FAI map.... Sheesh! Surviving Edwin's attack when all I was doing was offering to re-recruit him in Nashkel-with Minsc in the party [I had earlier checked him out and then dismissed him on the way to Noober-chat]....and for that, NADA!

    So I foresee no problem with temporarily dismissing everyone but Kivan [who wont stand for such treatment--having pressing engagements elsewhere] before returning the Bad Cleric's Holy Symbol. Not
    planning to keep the cash all for myself, of course, just no longer in the Adventure Business now that I have a Bankroll---and Imoen had been invited to join the folks in the Manor House for an Excursion of some sort. Who knew there would be so much XP awarded, particularly after rescuing Dynaheir... I mean, Enough is Enough is Enough!!
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    I think that the mechanics of the game are such that people will often times simply be found inhabiting their homes, as you might imagine. However, there really isn't a mechanic in the game for knocking at the door. Therefore, I take the additional liberty of seeing it this way. If I attempt to open the door, my character knocked first and awaited the invite. If it is unlocked, I got the invite and I proceed. If the door is locked, either no one was home or whoever was home declined to invite me in. It isn't that much of a stretch to overlook lack of game mechanic (to me).

    Now, if there is a viable reason to believe that whoever is behind the door is doing evil, that is a whole different ball of wax.
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,387
    the_spyder said:

    I think that the mechanics of the game are such that people will often times simply be found inhabiting their homes, as you might imagine. However, there really isn't a mechanic in the game for knocking at the door. Therefore, I take the additional liberty of seeing it this way. If I attempt to open the door, my character knocked first and awaited the invite. If it is unlocked, I got the invite and I proceed. If the door is locked, either no one was home or whoever was home declined to invite me in. It isn't that much of a stretch to overlook lack of game mechanic (to me).

    Now, if there is a viable reason to believe that whoever is behind the door is doing evil, that is a whole different ball of wax.

    I take it a step further and figure even picking a lock is like knocking and being let in; BECAUSE, I know I will do no harm when I'm let in. It's a flawed mechanic that has Moms worried about their missing kids hiding behind locked doors with no real LG way of lending a hand. The game is actually very well designed in the sense that people who have nothing to offer look like normal peasants, while those waiting for your help look more like adventuring types or will come right up to you. So its easy enough to let yourself in, see if anyone looks like they need your help, then let yourself out if they don't. And yeah, I've had to get pretty nosy in my various run throughs to figure that out. In my defense I would say I was a perfect good boy on my first two or three times through the game. Then I got curious and let myself into a lot of places. But now I have a pretty good idea of what I should do and what I shouldn't. I wish there was a better mechanism for helping the helpless, but it is what it is.

    And I would add, there is no evil deed that is needed to successfully complete the game. No innocent needs to die (except for a certain stupid miner who runs right into the waiting Kobolds after asking for help. I think I've only been fast enough to save him once or twice!), no ill gotten gain is required and no lie needs to be told.
    Just that little fudge with locked doors.
  • Eadwyn_G8keeperEadwyn_G8keeper Member Posts: 541
    But then, I gradually remember The Dream and Gorion's enigmatic Letter, etc. and realize that I will just have to see things through. No way to escape it.

    Hey Guys, Ajantis, Jaheira...! I'm back.. Here's your shares of the 5K GP and uh, BTW, I'm kinda rethinkin' that last little speech I made. I mean going into the Time-Sharing business with Garrick and Bjornin sounds great. Definitely. -At least until that demure young couple you are trying to Fast-talk pull out a couple of Axes during the tour of the Cabanas...
  • RhymeRhyme Member Posts: 190
    the_spyder said:

    I think that the mechanics of the game are such that people will often times simply be found inhabiting their homes, as you might imagine. However, there really isn't a mechanic in the game for knocking at the door. Therefore, I take the additional liberty of seeing it this way. If I attempt to open the door, my character knocked first and awaited the invite. If it is unlocked, I got the invite and I proceed. If the door is locked, either no one was home or whoever was home declined to invite me in. It isn't that much of a stretch to overlook lack of game mechanic (to me).

    Now, if there is a viable reason to believe that whoever is behind the door is doing evil, that is a whole different ball of wax.

    You could take this a step further and cast the spell "Knock".

    HEY, it opened! They must have come to the door!
  • EvinfuiltEvinfuilt Member Posts: 505
    Easier solution for RPing Josephs ring for a Paladin. Don't do the quest, but when you find the ring hold onto it till you return to town. Go around town, (hi noober) and you "learn" where a Joseph lived. You find the door locked, open it with the plan to put the ring down on a table and leave. Instead his wife is there, and she asks you for info on Joseph, thus you present her the ring and your condolences.

    Yeah, much easier playing an evil bard and just bumping into people like some sort of klutz (but a soon to be rich klutz.)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited March 2013
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    Rhyme said:

    the_spyder said:

    I think that the mechanics of the game are such that people will often times simply be found inhabiting their homes, as you might imagine. However, there really isn't a mechanic in the game for knocking at the door. Therefore, I take the additional liberty of seeing it this way. If I attempt to open the door, my character knocked first and awaited the invite. If it is unlocked, I got the invite and I proceed. If the door is locked, either no one was home or whoever was home declined to invite me in. It isn't that much of a stretch to overlook lack of game mechanic (to me).

    Now, if there is a viable reason to believe that whoever is behind the door is doing evil, that is a whole different ball of wax.

    You could take this a step further and cast the spell "Knock".

    HEY, it opened! They must have come to the door!
    I suppose with the right 'Moral Flexibility', sure.... But this increasingly fictitious person would not be me.

    But also remember that, if you have a thief in your party they are not Lawful good. Who is to say that the thief hasn't picked the lock behind the LG's back and then said "Hey, look. It was open all the time. Let's enter." Each party member is supposed to be their own person, with their own morals and ethics.

    At the end of the day, I think it was designed such that, if you are intended to go in for goodly reasons, the door is unlocked. If the door is locked, it is intended that opening it is a bit morally ambiguous at best. Just my own personal opinion.
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