I think it would be interesting to make spells cast in the specialized school a bit stronger for the specialist. Maybe an extra max D6 on fireball for specialists, or a save throw reduction for charms to resist. That would make it feel specialized and give reasons to specialize. Then, rather than forbid the opposite school, give it a penalty that matches above.
I'd be happy if merely the bonus for saving against one's own school (and penalty for enemies' saves when a Specialist Wizard casts a specialized school spell at them) could be included.
As for scribing scrolls, it very much seems like the +/-15% bonus/penalty has been implemented in the game, as I almost never fail to scribe scrolls from a character's specialized school. On the other hand, I cannot fathom the number of times times I've failed scribing scrolls from other schools with an 18 INT. I regularly fail to scribe non-specialized spells even with a 19% INT (95% base chance).
If I am correct, it was originally planned for the game to have better saving throws with and against mages own schools, but it was in the end not implemented for whatever reason. Indeed adding this to the game would give it an extra dimension.
On a sidenote, I would have loved to have spell's power influenced by intelligence.
@Mortianna: There is unfortunately no opcode for saving against spell school, only general categories. But isn't this included in the casting level bonus? I'm not sure right now, but doesn't character have penalty when saving against higher level spellcaster and vice versa?
As for scribing scrolls, due to the lack of opcodes in this area, the easiest way to implement any kind of bonus to specialized spells is to create duplicate more powerful version of those spells and insert them in the spellbook via CLAB file, so there would be no scribing necessary. edit: Well as I think about it, even save bonuses could be implemented this way.
@IkMarc: Matter of intelligence is beyond the scope of this mod for now, because I don't how to do it (yet). I might be able to do it in the future if I figure it out.
@Pecca I remember a mod (but not its name, unfortunately) that included a casting level bonus for high level mages, but it was never in the vanilla game as far as I know.
I like your idea of creating separate spells for specialists and making them automatically available in their spellbooks. Mages always got to add one or two spells to their spellbooks upon leveling in PnP, so it's not too far of a stretch to give specialists full access to their spells without having to wait until they find them in the game. I'm sure everyone has had the issue of advancing to the next level and having no spells from their specialize school to memorize (or no spells at all). This would be a welcome solution, I feel.
Yep, and it makes no sense roleplay-wise that a mage carries a spellbook that has only empty pages. They sure made some notes about spells of their own school, if nothing else.
Also, for an advantage there should be a disadvantage to keep things balanced, and so pure mage might become relevant choice. So what would you say to, for example, casting level bonus for specialized spells and casting level penalty for all other spells?
@Pecca; If possible, I'd be in favor of removing the bonus spell slot from specialists and giving it to vanilla mages. The specialists put their time and energy in mastering their school, meaning less yet more powerful slots. The vanilla mage becomes more versatile and flexible with less power, but more spell slots. Being more versatile is supposed to be the strength of vanilla mage, but as it is, most people probably pick a specialist with a "not so useful" forbidden school just for the extra slot. Giving vanilla the bonus spell would reflect the flexibility.
@KidCarnival: Very interesting idea, and it is possible via CLAB files. So if this was done, then how much more powerful you think should specialized spells be?
@Pecca: I suggested +1 above caster level, but that was without considering the loss of the bonus spell. Maybe start with that and increase it on higher levels (i.e. +2/level 5, +3/level 8), and at the same levels, grant vanilla mages additional slots (i.e. extra level 3 spell slot when reaching level 5; extra level 5 spell slot at level 8)?
Yep, and it makes no sense roleplay-wise that a mage carries a spellbook that has only empty pages. They sure made some notes about spells of their own school, if nothing else.
I think the essence what you and others on this post have suggested will eventually make it into mods (hopefully soon), because the ideas are very appealing and create a better gaming atmosphere, and probably a greater interest for a player to want to experience the difference between the specialities.
I especially like the idea that the specialist can have 1 spell from his school already entered in his spellbook at each level (or else, what was he doing when he was studying his craft?). This will really bring home the feeling of a specialty to the player. Plus it would be informative to newer players who haven't played a mage yet. Giving the vanilla mage an extra spell slot for say the first several levels would help to give a reason for choosing them also. Very exciting.
I think specialists of each school should get a unique spell. They should get this unique spell at level 12, where magelings become powerful wizards. It's like the culminating experience of getting a bachelor/master/doctor degree in real life.
I think specialists of each school should get a unique spell. They should get this unique spell at level 12, where magelings become powerful wizards. It's like the culminating experience of getting a bachelor/master/doctor degree in real life.
LOL I have yet to discover which feats one obtains with a degree besides perhaps some sort of corporate credibility ^^
A unique spell at level 12 would be irrelevant for BG1. Even with level cap removed. You'd get to the point where you just mindlessly grind minor monsters and run out of enemies worth more than a Sleep spell. BG1 isn't meant for high levels. If mages get special spells, it should either be on lower levels, or be saved up for BG2EE.
A unique spell at level 12 would be irrelevant for BG1. Even with level cap removed. You'd get to the point where you just mindlessly grind minor monsters and run out of enemies worth more than a Sleep spell. BG1 isn't meant for high levels. If mages get special spells, it should either be on lower levels, or be saved up for BG2EE.
Perhaps there should be 3 unique spells per school. The first one at level 6, the second one at level 12 and the final one at level 18. This fits nicely with the BG saga: one unique spell in BGEE, BG2EE and ToB.
I dunno about adding abilities to specialist mages, but maybe make them better at casting their schools magic by giving enemies decent saving throw penalties if there is a roll, or maybe if possible limit it so that the spells can actually have a chance to work on any enemy in the games, both 1 and 2...
Magic Resistance ignoring might go too far, but it's also an option I suppose...
@Eudaemonium: At the first glance, it is hardcoded. It was probably done this way because it was made to interact through dialog, which would be unfeasible for npcs. It might be possible to create different cre file for npc familiar with different simplified dialog using some other summoning opcode, but I don't know if that would work. Although without the dialog, it shouldn't be more difficult than normal summons.
I'm having quite difficulty trying to find the right system for empowering specialized spells. As for spell casting bonus and saving thows bonus, not all spells are dependent on those and vary a lot between schools. I could enhance the rest customly, or leave them be. The question is if it wouldn't be better to enhance customly all of them. The advantage of this would be that every school could have some specific bonus, the disadvantage would be of course that it would take a bloody lot of time and would probably need a lot of testing.
It bothers me that specialist mages are uniquely defined by what they can't cast. Instead of saying "I'm a conjorer" you are better off saying "I'm a non-diviner"
It is possible to get rid of the banned schools system too.
@KidCarnival: Most of the work would be to figure out right enhancements. Technical implementation is usually easy. So it actually is the talk, what matters.
@Pecca: If you remove banned schools alltogether, what would become of a Wild Mage? One of the perks now is that it is a specialist with access to all spells. This should somehow be preserved, because Wild Mage already feels like a real kit; unlike the specialists.
How about only lifting the banned schools for level 1? Most of the spells will lose their effectiveness on higher levels (i.e. Identify becomes relatively pointless once you have a bard, any character with good lore, or ridicolous amounts of gold) - unless a specialist casts them (i.e. Sleep may still be relevant with the caster level enhancement of a specialist). The Wild Mage perk would remain with the more powerful spells and access to all schools, where other specialists still need to make a choice which school to ban. Wild Mage wouldn't have an own school to enhance either way.
I believe the easiest way is to just add unique spells to each school, similar to the priest kits. Also, the uniqueness/flavor is more pronounced then some passive bonuses like saving throw bonus or casting at a higher level than otherwise.
Hm, the priest kits have zero downsides as it is; it's hard to take them as reference for a balanced vanilla vs kit. Except when multi/dual classing, vanilla cleric is the inferior choice. I wish the 3 cleric kits had a bit more... balance, like at least a minor drawback. The abilities may be more flashy than passive things like caster level or saving throws, but that's it. Most of the spells considered as the essentials of a school are passive - Sleep, Spook, Glitterdust, Greater Malison... I wouldn't underrate the appeal.
How about making one "trademark" spell more unique/an ability per day, and add the caster level progression, without removing the forbidden school (and vanilla mage gets the extra spell slot + progression)?
I'm thinking, for example, Necromancer ability: Larloch's gets more effective on higher levels, like the Blackguard Absorb Health ability. Or Conjurer can select which Monster Summon I appears (kinda like the sequencer selection screen; summon wild dog or kobold instead of random chance). It's not super powerful, but as ability, it guarantees that the mage has the flavor of the school from the beginning; without the issue of not finding scrolls of the right school, and before the bonus for casting the own school makes a difference.
Comments
Just thinking aloud.
I have an idea for this based on casting level bonus (level bonus to casting spell from specialized school).
I'd be happy if merely the bonus for saving against one's own school (and penalty for enemies' saves when a Specialist Wizard casts a specialized school spell at them) could be included.
As for scribing scrolls, it very much seems like the +/-15% bonus/penalty has been implemented in the game, as I almost never fail to scribe scrolls from a character's specialized school. On the other hand, I cannot fathom the number of times times I've failed scribing scrolls from other schools with an 18 INT. I regularly fail to scribe non-specialized spells even with a 19% INT (95% base chance).
On a sidenote, I would have loved to have spell's power influenced by intelligence.
As for scribing scrolls, due to the lack of opcodes in this area, the easiest way to implement any kind of bonus to specialized spells is to create duplicate more powerful version of those spells and insert them in the spellbook via CLAB file, so there would be no scribing necessary. edit: Well as I think about it, even save bonuses could be implemented this way.
@IkMarc: Matter of intelligence is beyond the scope of this mod for now, because I don't how to do it (yet). I might be able to do it in the future if I figure it out.
I like your idea of creating separate spells for specialists and making them automatically available in their spellbooks. Mages always got to add one or two spells to their spellbooks upon leveling in PnP, so it's not too far of a stretch to give specialists full access to their spells without having to wait until they find them in the game. I'm sure everyone has had the issue of advancing to the next level and having no spells from their specialize school to memorize (or no spells at all). This would be a welcome solution, I feel.
I especially like the idea that the specialist can have 1 spell from his school already entered in his spellbook at each level (or else, what was he doing when he was studying his craft?). This will really bring home the feeling of a specialty to the player. Plus it would be informative to newer players who haven't played a mage yet. Giving the vanilla mage an extra spell slot for say the first several levels would help to give a reason for choosing them also. Very exciting.
Magic Resistance ignoring might go too far, but it's also an option I suppose...
Instead of saying "I'm a conjorer" you are better off saying "I'm a non-diviner"
@KidCarnival: Most of the work would be to figure out right enhancements. Technical implementation is usually easy. So it actually is the talk, what matters.
How about only lifting the banned schools for level 1? Most of the spells will lose their effectiveness on higher levels (i.e. Identify becomes relatively pointless once you have a bard, any character with good lore, or ridicolous amounts of gold) - unless a specialist casts them (i.e. Sleep may still be relevant with the caster level enhancement of a specialist).
The Wild Mage perk would remain with the more powerful spells and access to all schools, where other specialists still need to make a choice which school to ban. Wild Mage wouldn't have an own school to enhance either way.
The abilities may be more flashy than passive things like caster level or saving throws, but that's it. Most of the spells considered as the essentials of a school are passive - Sleep, Spook, Glitterdust, Greater Malison... I wouldn't underrate the appeal.
How about making one "trademark" spell more unique/an ability per day, and add the caster level progression, without removing the forbidden school (and vanilla mage gets the extra spell slot + progression)?
I'm thinking, for example, Necromancer ability: Larloch's gets more effective on higher levels, like the Blackguard Absorb Health ability. Or Conjurer can select which Monster Summon I appears (kinda like the sequencer selection screen; summon wild dog or kobold instead of random chance). It's not super powerful, but as ability, it guarantees that the mage has the flavor of the school from the beginning; without the issue of not finding scrolls of the right school, and before the bonus for casting the own school makes a difference.