[Spoiler] I would prefer a blade! But then again I always was a sucker for bards. I also like to play a human (so no multi-class) in BG to have as close a kinship as possible with Imoen and Sarevok, I feel it makes more sense RP wise. [/Spoiler]
Le sigh, please use spoiler tags. I've played BG2 so I knew about Imoen, but didn't know until now (or perhaps had simply forgotten) about Sarevok. I know this is a spoiler section, but it does say they should still be in spoiler tags in the section header.
Alternatively, just Fighter/Mage/Thief it and be good at everything.
Just don't forget that a Fighter/Mage/Thief is not really viable in a large party due to XP distribution. (Don't want to give a new guy a crappy run do we?)
As sirrah Cells states, F/M/T is indeed viable, if not one of the most powerful characters in the game, and as I've mathematically demonstrated in past posts, actually progresses at broadly the same rate as the Bard does, and there's plenty enough Exp to bring a party of six all up to the exp cap within the game, even without covering all the content or engaging in early game solo/duo play to jump-start your play.
It's also worth noting that Bards have slowed spell progression, the early spell level access they gain over multiclass mages is minimal at best, and quickly outstripped by Real Fighter THAC0, attacks, proficiencies and bonus HP from Con.
Of course F/M/T will be good once you hit the exp cap, but so will virtually every class be. Nonetheless I find triple classes to level too slowly in a large party. Imo in a large party it is better to have abilities divided between members to have them available as well as leveling quickly. I don't see the point in having a low level F/M/T if you will probably have fighters, mages and a thief or some multiclass characters to fulfill those roles in your party anyway.
F/M or F/Ill are great for more power, or for less micro. An Elf F/M with two dots in Longbows can be brutal (though a Human F3>M with three dots in Longbows is even more brutal, but less convenient while waiting for Mage 4).
Also, I think the Bard-specific magic items (there is only one on BGEE, but quite a few in BG2) are fun, and are otherwise "wasted" if you don't have a Bard in your party. Tenser's Transformation can be very effective with Blades too, given how quickly they level.
The HP from a 19 Con half-elven Fighter with a Tome is +5 HP per level with a D7 [(D10+D4)/2] Hit Die, or essentially 12 HP a level.
At cap, a level 10 Bard with 16 Con can have 78 or 80 HP, depending whether the Bard offers an extra level with a con bonus, which really should only be for the first nine levels from memory. At cap, a 7/7 Fighter/Mage has 84 HP. Bards with max Con end up maxed at 152 HP, a 20 Con Fighter/Mage only gets 137.5 HP, unless they get the other point of Con, which takes them up to 146, which gives the bard an advantage that kicks in around level 30 or so, unless the Fighter/Mage somehow sneaks in another point of Con. At some point there's Stoneskin, and then Hitpoints are invalid. It's worth noting that Bards cannot wear helmets. Immunity to critical hits is important, especially in the early game.
Bards also lag behind more in spells per level than you thought; at level 2 they gain their first Level 1 spell, at level 4 they gain their first level 2 spell, at level 7, they gain their first level level 3 spell, at level 10, they gain their first level 4 spell. Only Druids gain level 5 spells within the TotSC Exp cap.
At this point, the also Capped Fighter/Mage has an extra level 1 spell and just as many of the other level spells, the only difference is the Bard gets a +7.5 damage per fireball, which is a terrible use for a real mage anyway. For more spells, Mages can get Evermemory, giving them more than twice the number of spells that a Bard would get, which means that even in BG1, the only benefit Bards get is on spells with a level based scaling mechanic, which does not include the vast majority of game winning spells like Sleep.
THAC0wise, a Fighter/Mage hits 14 in TotSC, compared to Bards 16. Blades, the object of comparison, can also specialise, though it takes them until BGII to really specialise, unless they fancy being unproficient in dual wielding or something else important. Ignoring that, Specialisation gives Fighters an extra 1/2 attack, being level 7 gives another 1/2 attack, so every time that a Bard attacks (or twice with dual wielding) the Fighter/Mage attacks once again, and does so with their superior, primary hand.
Since Bards are not a Warrior class, they cannot benefit from Fighter /00 strength, which is another major early game advantage. Bards ameliorate this after Candlekeep, or by casting Strength every few minutes, but they will never gain the same advantages that a Fighter/Mage does with a Sling or in melee, where the extra attack really piles on the damage multiplier. When you're dealing, with BG1 weapons only, an average of 14-16 damage per hit, missing out on that extra attack actually is a pretty major disadvantage, which spinning doesn't really make up for unless you rest every encounter.
Moving into BGII, the Bard gets 10 THAC0 at 2,420,000 exp. At the same exp, the Fighter/Mage is already at 10 THAC0, and gets 9 THAC0 at 2,500,000 exp, the Bard never improves after level 21, the Fighter/Mage proceeds to hit 0 THAC0 three levels before it reaches the ToB cap.
As I said, it's much, much closer with F/M/T (Can't be bothered to locate the thread/post, but Bards actually have decent tradeoffs with the class until Throne of Bhaal, when F/M/Ts become overpowered monstrosities that trample all over them in everything except caster level), but for Fighter/Mages versus Bards, it's pretty one sided in favour of the multiclass.
[Spoiler] I would prefer a blade! But then again I always was a sucker for bards. I also like to play a human (so no multi-class) in BG to have as close a kinship as possible with Imoen and Sarevok, I feel it makes more sense RP wise. [/Spoiler]
Le sigh, please use spoiler tags. I've played BG2 so I knew about Imoen, but didn't know until now (or perhaps had simply forgotten) about Sarevok. I know this is a spoiler section, but it does say they should still be in spoiler tags in the section header.
Sorry, didn't really think about that. Although in all fairness kinship could imply almost any form of relationship. Added spoiler tags.
[Spoiler] I would prefer a blade! But then again I always was a sucker for bards. I also like to play a human (so no multi-class) in BG to have as close a kinship as possible with Imoen and Sarevok, I feel it makes more sense RP wise. [/Spoiler]
Le sigh, please use spoiler tags. I've played BG2 so I knew about Imoen, but didn't know until now (or perhaps had simply forgotten) about Sarevok. I know this is a spoiler section, but it does say they should still be in spoiler tags in the section header.
How did you manage to remember Imoen but forget about Sarevok?
[Spoiler] I would prefer a blade! But then again I always was a sucker for bards. I also like to play a human (so no multi-class) in BG to have as close a kinship as possible with Imoen and Sarevok, I feel it makes more sense RP wise. [/Spoiler]
Le sigh, please use spoiler tags. I've played BG2 so I knew about Imoen, but didn't know until now (or perhaps had simply forgotten) about Sarevok. I know this is a spoiler section, but it does say they should still be in spoiler tags in the section header.
How did you manage to remember Imoen but forget about Sarevok?
The HP from a 19 Con half-elven Fighter with a Tome is +5 HP per level with a D7 [(D10+D4)/2] Hit Die, or essentially 12 HP a level.
At cap, a level 10 Bard with 16 Con can have 78 or 80 HP, depending whether the Bard offers an extra level with a con bonus, which really should only be for the first nine levels from memory. At cap, a 7/7 Fighter/Mage has 84 HP. Bards with max Con end up maxed at 152 HP, a 20 Con Fighter/Mage only gets 137.5 HP, unless they get the other point of Con, which takes them up to 146,
The actual HP you get on core rules or above is much more variable and random unless you lower the difficulty on level-ups, which I never do
THAC0wise, a Fighter/Mage hits 14 in TotSC, compared to Bards 16. Blades, the object of comparison, can also specialise, though it takes them until BGII to really specialise, unless they fancy being unproficient in dual wielding or something else important. Ignoring that, Specialisation gives Fighters an extra 1/2 attack, being level 7 gives another 1/2 attack, so every time that a Bard attacks (or twice with dual wielding) the Fighter/Mage attacks once again, and does so with their superior, primary hand.
Blades can't specialise as far as I'm aware, they can put 3 points into dual-wield (which I always do), but that's it
Since Bards are not a Warrior class, they cannot benefit from Fighter /00 strength, which is another major early game advantage. Bards ameliorate this after Candlekeep, or by casting Strength every few minutes, but they will never gain the same advantages that a Fighter/Mage does with a Sling or in melee, where the extra attack really piles on the damage multiplier. When you're dealing, with BG1 weapons only, an average of 14-16 damage per hit, missing out on that extra attack actually is a pretty major disadvantage, which spinning doesn't really make up for unless you rest every encounter.
Yes, though by the end of BGEE and into BG2 Blades can get 19 Str, just like fighters
Moving into BGII, the Bard gets 10 THAC0 at 2,420,000 exp. At the same exp, the Fighter/Mage is already at 10 THAC0, and gets 9 THAC0 at 2,500,000 exp, the Bard never improves after level 21, the Fighter/Mage proceeds to hit 0 THAC0 three levels before it reaches the ToB cap.
As I said, it's much, much closer with F/M/T (Can't be bothered to locate the thread/post, but Bards actually have decent tradeoffs with the class until Throne of Bhaal, when F/M/Ts become overpowered monstrosities that trample all over them in everything except caster level), but for Fighter/Mages versus Bards, it's pretty one sided in favour of the multiclass.
Sorry, I admit I was wrong. (Obviously!) I am very biased as well as I never liked the slow level progression of multi-classes. Even with ToB you will be very far in, near the absolute end before you even gain any high level abilities with a full party.
You start getting HLAs at your first level up after 3 million XP. XP from all classes in a multiclass contribute towards this threshold, so a multiclass character will get high level abilities at pretty much the same time as a single class character. Just wanted to point this out, as this seems to be a somewhat common misunderstanding.
A dual class on the other hand will need 3000000+ from just their current class in order to start getting HLAs.
I usually choose a class/kit for the main character that you cannot meet in any NPC in your party. So there's always more diversity.
For this reason I'd choose F/M.
Of course, there's no blade in BG1 but there're two bards who can express everything a blade has except his fighting abilities (they can pickpocket, identify, use wands, spells and one bard-specific item, they level up fast). There's a blade in BG2 and an interesting one (his personality, dialogs and personal items) so if you plan exporting your character into the next part, it can be taken into consideration. Of course, spins are interesting to use and if your character is not a blade you won't be able to do this in BG1 but from my point of view any bard (a blade included) is much more than just 2-weapon fighting style and spins.
But there're no F/M in BG1 nor in BG2. So your character will be unique through all the game.
I usually choose a class/kit for the main character that you cannot meet in any NPC in your party. So there's always more diversity.
For this reason I'd choose F/M.
Of course, there's no blade in BG1 but there're two bards who can express everything a blade has except his fighting abilities (they can pickpocket, identify, use wands, spells and one bard-specific item, they level up fast). There's a blade in BG2 and an interesting one (his personality, dialogs and personal items) so if you plan exporting your character into the next part, it can be taken into consideration. Of course, spins are interesting to use and if your character is not a blade you won't be able to do this in BG1 but from my point of view any bard (a blade included) is much more than just 2-weapon fighting style and spins.
But there're no F/M in BG1 nor in BG2. So your character will be unique through all the game.
The fact that both the BG 1 bards are among the worst NPCs there are when considering attribute-spread make them very unappealing. You could take them, but they couldn't due to their limitations be used in the same way as a decent Charname bard could. Eldoth and Garrick certainly inherited the "master of none" part of the jack of all trades.
While a F/M might be "unique" as a class combination there are still plenty of fighters and mages out there. And although you will probably use some of the spells that you wouldn't do with a normal mage/sorc I still feel that they are just that, a fighter and a mage and not very unique at all.
If you want something unique there are still plenty of classes and kits to choose from that strike me as rarer.
Comments
F/M or F/Ill are great for more power, or for less micro. An Elf F/M with two dots in Longbows can be brutal (though a Human F3>M with three dots in Longbows is even more brutal, but less convenient while waiting for Mage 4).
Almost, but you have a few inaccuracies.
The HP from a 19 Con half-elven Fighter with a Tome is +5 HP per level with a D7 [(D10+D4)/2] Hit Die, or essentially 12 HP a level.
At cap, a level 10 Bard with 16 Con can have 78 or 80 HP, depending whether the Bard offers an extra level with a con bonus, which really should only be for the first nine levels from memory.
At cap, a 7/7 Fighter/Mage has 84 HP. Bards with max Con end up maxed at 152 HP, a 20 Con Fighter/Mage only gets 137.5 HP, unless they get the other point of Con, which takes them up to 146, which gives the bard an advantage that kicks in around level 30 or so, unless the Fighter/Mage somehow sneaks in another point of Con. At some point there's Stoneskin, and then Hitpoints are invalid.
It's worth noting that Bards cannot wear helmets. Immunity to critical hits is important, especially in the early game.
Bards also lag behind more in spells per level than you thought; at level 2 they gain their first Level 1 spell, at level 4 they gain their first level 2 spell, at level 7, they gain their first level level 3 spell, at level 10, they gain their first level 4 spell. Only Druids gain level 5 spells within the TotSC Exp cap.
At this point, the also Capped Fighter/Mage has an extra level 1 spell and just as many of the other level spells, the only difference is the Bard gets a +7.5 damage per fireball, which is a terrible use for a real mage anyway. For more spells, Mages can get Evermemory, giving them more than twice the number of spells that a Bard would get, which means that even in BG1, the only benefit Bards get is on spells with a level based scaling mechanic, which does not include the vast majority of game winning spells like Sleep.
THAC0wise, a Fighter/Mage hits 14 in TotSC, compared to Bards 16. Blades, the object of comparison, can also specialise, though it takes them until BGII to really specialise, unless they fancy being unproficient in dual wielding or something else important. Ignoring that, Specialisation gives Fighters an extra 1/2 attack, being level 7 gives another 1/2 attack, so every time that a Bard attacks (or twice with dual wielding) the Fighter/Mage attacks once again, and does so with their superior, primary hand.
Since Bards are not a Warrior class, they cannot benefit from Fighter /00 strength, which is another major early game advantage. Bards ameliorate this after Candlekeep, or by casting Strength every few minutes, but they will never gain the same advantages that a Fighter/Mage does with a Sling or in melee, where the extra attack really piles on the damage multiplier. When you're dealing, with BG1 weapons only, an average of 14-16 damage per hit, missing out on that extra attack actually is a pretty major disadvantage, which spinning doesn't really make up for unless you rest every encounter.
Moving into BGII, the Bard gets 10 THAC0 at 2,420,000 exp. At the same exp, the Fighter/Mage is already at 10 THAC0, and gets 9 THAC0 at 2,500,000 exp, the Bard never improves after level 21, the Fighter/Mage proceeds to hit 0 THAC0 three levels before it reaches the ToB cap.
As I said, it's much, much closer with F/M/T (Can't be bothered to locate the thread/post, but Bards actually have decent tradeoffs with the class until Throne of Bhaal, when F/M/Ts become overpowered monstrosities that trample all over them in everything except caster level), but for Fighter/Mages versus Bards, it's pretty one sided in favour of the multiclass.
A dual class on the other hand will need 3000000+ from just their current class in order to start getting HLAs.
I usually choose a class/kit for the main character that you cannot meet in any NPC in your party. So there's always more diversity.
For this reason I'd choose F/M.
Of course, there's no blade in BG1 but there're two bards who can express everything a blade has except his fighting abilities (they can pickpocket, identify, use wands, spells and one bard-specific item, they level up fast). There's a blade in BG2 and an interesting one (his personality, dialogs and personal items) so if you plan exporting your character into the next part, it can be taken into consideration.
Of course, spins are interesting to use and if your character is not a blade you won't be able to do this in BG1 but from my point of view any bard (a blade included) is much more than just 2-weapon fighting style and spins.
But there're no F/M in BG1 nor in BG2. So your character will be unique through all the game.
While a F/M might be "unique" as a class combination there are still plenty of fighters and mages out there. And although you will probably use some of the spells that you wouldn't do with a normal mage/sorc I still feel that they are just that, a fighter and a mage and not very unique at all.
If you want something unique there are still plenty of classes and kits to choose from that strike me as rarer.