I actually hope she won't be an assassin, if only because my main is one and I'd find it interesting if she was a new kit or a swashie. The issue is thieving points: she needs enough to be a viable option without having to put everything into hiding.
a REAL red Thayan wizard, Edwin is red but he never talks about the acadamy , he or she should be neutral , so you can have a good aligned party with an awesome mage, like Safiya in NWN2 she was awesome and neutral
I think BG is fine as-is. My main request would be integrating some of the popular NPC mods as streamlined, optional installation components (e.g., Finch, Gavin, Indira, Mur'Neth). Finch and Gavin would both fit the OP's specific interest in useful, good-aligned clerics.
BG2 is more hurting for units, and an evil thief is the main gap. I think the evil thief, and thieves in general, were left out of the vanilla because the developers wanted everyone to get attached to Yoshimo, though.
I think BG is fine as-is. My main request would be integrating some of the popular NPC mods as streamlined, optional installation components (e.g., Finch, Gavin, Indira, Mur'Neth). Finch and Gavin would both fit the OP's specific interest in useful, good-aligned clerics.
BG2 is more hurting for units, and an evil thief is the main gap. I think the evil thief, and thieves in general, were left out of the vanilla because the developers wanted everyone to get attached to Yoshimo, though.
only mods I use are better grafic and so on.... never been fan of adding other peoples npc modes.... never likd the ide (and I know i'm not alone in this)......
but stil I would welcome any new Neutral npc followers.... I like mostly neutral followers... it's little bit hard to have a good neutral party in BG2
I had an NPC idea the other day I think could have been have been interesting for BG II. If I knew anything about modding and had the time I might have tried to make it myself since I doubt Overhaul take requests!
Anyhow... He's a human LN wizardslayer. Working as a hired investigator for the Cowled Wizards in the search for Valygar Corthala with some interesting interaction between the two of them (and any party mages). Oh and he's Saemon Havarian's serious, no-nonsense brother with no love lost between the pair.
A female could also be very interesting (possibly more), with a romance subplot between her and Valygar (in a love/hate kind of way) post Planar Sphere, sort of like Haer'dalis and Aerie.
Saemon Havarian was always one of my favorite characters so I would love to see more interaction with that scoundrel.
I don't care for Dorn or that elven chic. But i like that they added a Monk character. I remember people taking a liking to Belthazar from Baldurs Gate 2
I think BG is fine as-is. My main request would be integrating some of the popular NPC mods as streamlined, optional installation components (e.g., Finch, Gavin, Indira, Mur'Neth). Finch and Gavin would both fit the OP's specific interest in useful, good-aligned clerics.
BG2 is more hurting for units, and an evil thief is the main gap. I think the evil thief, and thieves in general, were left out of the vanilla because the developers wanted everyone to get attached to Yoshimo, though.
only mods I use are better grafic and so on.... never been fan of adding other peoples npc modes.... never likd the ide (and I know i'm not alone in this)......
but stil I would welcome any new Neutral npc followers.... I like mostly neutral followers... it's little bit hard to have a good neutral party in BG2
I think the BG1 mod NPCs are much more consistent than the BG2 mod NPCs. None of them are Neutral, though.
Mur'Neth I can vouch for as someone who was integrated into the game pretty well -- a nice balance of novelty and inobtrusiveness. He shows up inside the Nashkel mines.
Finch is pretty similar to the BGEE NPCs in terms of scope. She shows up in the prologue and then again in Beregost.
Gavin shows up at the Temple near Beregost, and his Mod adds some content to that area. His writing is a little on the BG2mod/wonky side, though.
I've never used Indira before, but I've heard she's near Firewine Bridge.
I actually hope she won't be an assassin, if only because my main is one and I'd find it interesting if she was a new kit or a swashie. The issue is thieving points: she needs enough to be a viable option without having to put everything into hiding.
This. An assassin couldn't cover the locks/traps and still be efficient with stealth and backstabs. I also play an assassin charname - in BG1, always with a second party thief; in BG2, completely neglecting locks (and have Knock spell and potions cover it, but it's tedious). Adding a new thief to BG2EE isn't a question of getting a kit, it's about covering basics - and an assassin is too specialized to do that. I would prefer a vanilla thief, possibly with the option to dual after maxing locks and traps. If you want something more specialized, you can still have it as charname.
Also, if Edwin is made neutral so good parties can have him (because good parties totally don't have enough NPCs in BG2 *echem*), I would like Keldorn to be a Blackguard, because that's the NPC I always wanted for evil parties.
I'm not super interested in more NPC's, as the party size limitation makes it less than optimal. If anything, more choices of the thief persuasion would be great, but I think that is all but confirmed for BG2:EE (or am I reading the forum gossip as truth/pravda).
If it really is true that the best NPC's in BG I are evil, it balances out the fact that there's barely enough evil characters in BG II to fill a party.
I am finding this to be absolutely the case in my current run through of BG2. I want to play a traditionally Evil party in BG2 and find it very difficult without adding in some neutrals, half of which are 'Goodies' but with a neutral alignment.
I personally would like to see more 'Evil' potential party members in BG2. Definitely Dorn, but I would so hope to see Shar-Teel and a thief or Assassin type just to fill out the party.
BG2 Evil companions Viconia Edwin Korgan
Which means that even if you take Yoshimo, that only makes 5 party members (including Charname).
...even if you take Yoshimo, that only makes 5 party members (including Charname).
I always resorted to Haer'Dalis to fill out my final slot in evil playthroughs. He seemed the dark type anyhow. But now with Dorn and the evil thief there will be enough choices to go around. Shar-Teel doesn't seem like the best fit though. There is already an evil fighter (and then a second in ToB) and then you have Dorn. And I'm not even sure they would be allowed to bring old BGI NPCs that weren't in BGII into the game?
They might be able to add BG1 NPCs who weren't at all in BG2 (so Shar-Teel would qualify, as would Eldoth, Skie, and Xan and Branwen if you exclude the tutorial). But then again, they might not. We don't really know about fine details like that. Or at least i don't.
That said, I'm finding Shar-Teel a bit superfluous in my latest playthrough (F>T Charname, Dorn, Xzar (M>C), Edwin). Since my Charname fits the Thief points and Dorn fills much the same role as Shar as a pureclass fighter, she doesn't have much needed utility.
@Iecerint I never add other peoples mods..... specially if its Npc followers.... I like core .... Stil if I want a mod .. i'll program one for myself... anyway ... I am one of those people that only add neutral aligment follower... and i must say it's really hard to have a good neutral party....
Only neutral follower you find in Bg2 are
Jaheira (Fighter/Druid) Yoshimo (Bounty Hunter) and he dies Anomen (Fighter dual class cleric) he changes aligment to LG Jan (Illusionist/Thief) only neutral mage you can find..... it's good that he hav at least thief skills Haer'Dalis (Blade) Cernd (Shapeshifter) weakest npc follower ever...
So as you see Yoshimo dies so now we have 5 neutral followers then Anomen changes aligment to LG so now we have 4 neutral follower.... and Cernd is the weakest followers you can find so actually we have 3,5 followers ....
in short a total neutral follower don't have any pure Fighter... luckly we do get Neera... so in short I want more Neutral followers..... maybe a cleric of hoar or Sharess... and a real good neutral fighter....or simply add some of the neutral followers of BG1
@Eudaemonium In Baldurs gate comics Shar-Teel Kills Eldoth and Eldoth killed some Noblewomen... might Skie He killed....Kivan also dies in BG comics... So Skie and Eldoth might not show up in Bg2
Since when are the *comics* considered canon? Eldoth, Kivan and possibly Skie dying in them means nothing.
I would appreciate Eldoth in BG2. I like bards, and Eldoth - with a small stat update (dex *cough*), would be a great fit. Especially as a jester. Dorn and Korgan cover the frontline pretty well, and an updated Eldoth who can make good use of his archery, would be a nice change for a ranged party member (since Haer'Dalis is quite melee oriented).
Since when are the *comics* considered canon? Eldoth, Kivan and possibly Skie dying in them means nothing.
I would appreciate Eldoth in BG2. I like bards, and Eldoth - with a small stat update (dex *cough*), would be a great fit. Especially as a jester. Dorn and Korgan cover the frontline pretty well, and an updated Eldoth who can make good use of his archery, would be a nice change for a ranged party member (since Haer'Dalis is quite melee oriented).
Be careful for what you wish for you might get Garric instead of Eldoth and the thing about Comic... well we don't know anything if it was canon or not and they never said anything... If it wasn't canon yes it is nice to have Eldoth and the gang from Bg1 to Bg2... it just i wish for more of neutral followers for my playstyle..... it's always about good and evil party never about us people who like play neutral parties
Actually, I'd also appreciate a recruitable Garrick. I have him in my current party. He works fine as a ranged fighter with either crossbow or shortbow, and I find his personality enjoyable, too. Haer'Dalis does get a bit on my nerves with his... umm, unique speech patterns. However, he's already making a cameo in BG2, so it will probably not be changed due to the contract.
In the comic, Shar-Teel saves Ajantis and they work together. That's out of character enough to not make me draw conclusions for the game - in the game, Ajantis has the same chance of attacking Shar-Teel as any other evil NPC. They have very different reasons to dislike Eldoth, so it's not a believable "my enemy's enemy" situation. Shar-Teel hates men, not just jerkass-men, so she would probably seek female allies instead of a male paladin. Ajantis hates evil people, which includes both Eldoth and Shar-Teel. The only one way street of hate is - I see no obvious reason why Eldoth would hate Ajantis. Maybe look down on him, but he does that with everyone else, so it's not special. Anyway, the comics hardly indicate what does or should happen in the game.
I think a fighter/mage would make a great addition. It's a potent combination and a common choice for CHARNAME. Adding the archetype as an NPC would be a great way to allow players to have a gish in the party while experimenting with new kits as CHARMAME.
Because he has only 12 WIS unless he succeeds in his quest (which boosts him to 16 WIS). 12 WIS is pretty feeble for a Cleric: there are no bonus spells and there is a spell-failure risk. When he's boosted to 16 WIS, there is no spell-failure risk and he gets several bonus spells, so he's much better.
Eh. Bonus spells. He's a battle Cleric. Cast a spell and then hit stuff, or save all your slots for healing. Also, there's no spell-failure risk that I've ever seen.
I want more Lawful Neutral characters. LN is like, one of my top three favorite alignments. Every other alignment has multiple characters to choose from, but the only Lawful Neutral NPC in the entire series is Xan. Seriously, where is the LN love? We need more LN characters.
@MurrayConfederacy Yeah, but I usually don't count him, because his quest always seems to go by so fast and before you know it, WHAM. Alignment change, in your face. I mean, I'd like there to be more than one LN character in the series that, you know, STAYS LN.
Besides, let's talk more about BG1. My point still stands for BG1 even if you do count Anomen as Lawful Neutral. Every other alignment has AT LEAST two representatives. In BG:EE, there are 4 LG characters, 3 NG, 3 CG, four N, four CN, 2 LE, 4 NE, 3 CE...and only one LN.
If we're talking about BG2, the lack of LN characters aside from Anomen who changes alignments fairly quickly DOES bother me, but let's face it, it's got more pressing problems when it comes to NPC variety. For example, if you want a decent single-classed mage and you're running a nonevil group? Out of luck. Want a good thief that isn't dual or multiclassed and doesn't, you know, die right before the game starts to get hard and you actually need one? Out of luck. Nonevil single class cleric? Nope. Honestly, BG2 likes its dual and multiclasses far too much. It's like. "Can we dual class it or multiclass it? THEN IT WILL BE DUAL OR MULTICLASSED." With far too few exceptions.
I have to agree about the dual obsession BG2 seems to have. I prefer it to have the option to dual - that's why Xzar is one of my favorite NPCs. He can dual to two classes, no matter how silly it would be to make yet another thief out of him. The point is, I could. I wish BG2 had left at least a few NPCs pure class (i.e. Nalia), thrown in some tomes and let the player decide what to do with that.
@LadyEibhilinRhett And don't forget that if you want ONLY neutral party without any good or Evil followers then your out of luck.... Haer'Dalis and Jan are only good neutral follower you can get... the rest are very weak (shapeshifter druid), Dies (yoshi) or change aligment (Anomen)... conclussion please add more neutral alig followers....
Imoen Minsc Aerie Nalia Keldorn Valygar Mazzy Rasaad Anomen (after his quest) Viconia (good ending romance) Sarevok (changing his aligment if you want)
with other words... there are plenty of good and strong followers for good party and evil party in BGee edition but neutral has very few and building a neutral party and trying to finish the game is almost impossible
Why does everyone always say Viconia turns *good*? I thought she became true neutral. Did I get that wrong?
Also Mr Spoiler isn't going to be playable in BG2:EE. Evil just has a full party in SoA now, plus Mr Anchev in ToB.
Neutral does have the weakest lineup overall, though. However, Jan, Haer'Dalis, and Jaheira are all pretty sweet.
That said, comparing a CN Anomen to Cernd is pretty unfair, particularly if you are simply looking at their stats. Anomen is a Dualed Fighter/Cleric, and is therefore ridiculously good even without the bonus spells: 18/52 STR is far from shoddy. And since you have Jaheira for healing, Anomen can concentrate purely on spells like DUHM and other things that make him pretty amazing. Cernd is a Shapeshifter. I think I can leave it at that.
Comments
BG2 is more hurting for units, and an evil thief is the main gap. I think the evil thief, and thieves in general, were left out of the vanilla because the developers wanted everyone to get attached to Yoshimo, though.
but stil I would welcome any new Neutral npc followers.... I like mostly neutral followers... it's little bit hard to have a good neutral party in BG2
Anyhow... He's a human LN wizardslayer. Working as a hired investigator for the Cowled Wizards in the search for Valygar Corthala with some interesting interaction between the two of them (and any party mages). Oh and he's Saemon Havarian's serious, no-nonsense brother with no love lost between the pair.
A female could also be very interesting (possibly more), with a romance subplot between her and Valygar (in a love/hate kind of way) post Planar Sphere, sort of like Haer'dalis and Aerie.
Saemon Havarian was always one of my favorite characters so I would love to see more interaction with that scoundrel.
Mur'Neth I can vouch for as someone who was integrated into the game pretty well -- a nice balance of novelty and inobtrusiveness. He shows up inside the Nashkel mines.
Finch is pretty similar to the BGEE NPCs in terms of scope. She shows up in the prologue and then again in Beregost.
Gavin shows up at the Temple near Beregost, and his Mod adds some content to that area. His writing is a little on the BG2mod/wonky side, though.
I've never used Indira before, but I've heard she's near Firewine Bridge.
I would prefer a vanilla thief, possibly with the option to dual after maxing locks and traps. If you want something more specialized, you can still have it as charname.
Also, if Edwin is made neutral so good parties can have him (because good parties totally don't have enough NPCs in BG2 *echem*), I would like Keldorn to be a Blackguard, because that's the NPC I always wanted for evil parties.
I personally would like to see more 'Evil' potential party members in BG2. Definitely Dorn, but I would so hope to see Shar-Teel and a thief or Assassin type just to fill out the party.
BG2 Evil companions
Viconia
Edwin
Korgan
Which means that even if you take Yoshimo, that only makes 5 party members (including Charname).
That said, I'm finding Shar-Teel a bit superfluous in my latest playthrough (F>T Charname, Dorn, Xzar (M>C), Edwin). Since my Charname fits the Thief points and Dorn fills much the same role as Shar as a pureclass fighter, she doesn't have much needed utility.
I never add other peoples mods..... specially if its Npc followers.... I like core ....
Stil if I want a mod .. i'll program one for myself...
anyway ... I am one of those people that only add neutral aligment follower... and i must say it's really hard to have a good neutral party....
Only neutral follower you find in Bg2 are
Jaheira (Fighter/Druid)
Yoshimo (Bounty Hunter) and he dies
Anomen (Fighter dual class cleric) he changes aligment to LG
Jan (Illusionist/Thief) only neutral mage you can find..... it's good that he hav at least thief skills
Haer'Dalis (Blade)
Cernd (Shapeshifter) weakest npc follower ever...
So as you see Yoshimo dies so now we have 5 neutral followers then Anomen changes aligment to LG so now we have 4 neutral follower.... and Cernd is the weakest followers you can find so actually we have 3,5 followers ....
in short a total neutral follower don't have any pure Fighter... luckly we do get Neera...
so in short I want more Neutral followers..... maybe a cleric of hoar or Sharess... and a real good neutral fighter....or simply add some of the neutral followers of BG1
@Eudaemonium
In Baldurs gate comics Shar-Teel Kills Eldoth and Eldoth killed some Noblewomen... might Skie He killed....Kivan also dies in BG comics...
So Skie and Eldoth might not show up in Bg2
I would appreciate Eldoth in BG2. I like bards, and Eldoth - with a small stat update (dex *cough*), would be a great fit. Especially as a jester. Dorn and Korgan cover the frontline pretty well, and an updated Eldoth who can make good use of his archery, would be a nice change for a ranged party member (since Haer'Dalis is quite melee oriented).
and the thing about Comic... well we don't know anything if it was canon or not and they never said anything... If it wasn't canon yes it is nice to have Eldoth and the gang from Bg1 to Bg2... it just i wish for more of neutral followers for my playstyle..... it's always about good and evil party never about us people who like play neutral parties
In the comic, Shar-Teel saves Ajantis and they work together. That's out of character enough to not make me draw conclusions for the game - in the game, Ajantis has the same chance of attacking Shar-Teel as any other evil NPC. They have very different reasons to dislike Eldoth, so it's not a believable "my enemy's enemy" situation. Shar-Teel hates men, not just jerkass-men, so she would probably seek female allies instead of a male paladin. Ajantis hates evil people, which includes both Eldoth and Shar-Teel. The only one way street of hate is - I see no obvious reason why Eldoth would hate Ajantis. Maybe look down on him, but he does that with everyone else, so it's not special. Anyway, the comics hardly indicate what does or should happen in the game.
Yeah, but I usually don't count him, because his quest always seems to go by so fast and before you know it, WHAM. Alignment change, in your face.
I mean, I'd like there to be more than one LN character in the series that, you know, STAYS LN.
Besides, let's talk more about BG1. My point still stands for BG1 even if you do count Anomen as Lawful Neutral. Every other alignment has AT LEAST two representatives. In BG:EE, there are 4 LG characters, 3 NG, 3 CG, four N, four CN, 2 LE, 4 NE, 3 CE...and only one LN.
If we're talking about BG2, the lack of LN characters aside from Anomen who changes alignments fairly quickly DOES bother me, but let's face it, it's got more pressing problems when it comes to NPC variety. For example, if you want a decent single-classed mage and you're running a nonevil group? Out of luck. Want a good thief that isn't dual or multiclassed and doesn't, you know, die right before the game starts to get hard and you actually need one? Out of luck. Nonevil single class cleric? Nope. Honestly, BG2 likes its dual and multiclasses far too much. It's like. "Can we dual class it or multiclass it? THEN IT WILL BE DUAL OR MULTICLASSED." With far too few exceptions.
And don't forget that if you want ONLY neutral party without any good or Evil followers then your out of luck.... Haer'Dalis and Jan are only good neutral follower you can get... the rest are very weak (shapeshifter druid), Dies (yoshi) or change aligment (Anomen)...
conclussion please add more neutral alig followers....
Also, Jaheira is TN.
Anomen
STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA Race Class Alignment
18/52 10 16 10 12 13 Human Fighter(7)/Cleric(8) Lawful Neutral
he going to be almost as good as:
Cernd
STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA Race Class Alignment
13 9 13 12 18 15 Human Shapeshifter(10) True Neutral
If we let him fail his quest.... so anomen is out of the picture...
so what we have here is 2 druid (2nd healers) and 1 cleric that change aligment...
once again Yoshimo dies so we have Jan who work like thief/mage and then Haer'Dalis...
so basically neutral follower we get are
Jaheira (fighter/druid
Jan (Illusionist/thief)
Haer'Dalis (Blade)
Cernd (Shapeshifter)
From BgEE we get Neera (wild mage)
Evil followers are:
Korgan (berserker)
Viconia (super cleric)
Edwin ( ultimate mage)
Sarevok (super Fighter)
Dorn (super blackguard)
(evil Thief) (thief)
baeloth (good sorcerer)
Good followers:
Imoen
Minsc
Aerie
Nalia
Keldorn
Valygar
Mazzy
Rasaad
Anomen (after his quest)
Viconia (good ending romance)
Sarevok (changing his aligment if you want)
with other words... there are plenty of good and strong followers for good party and evil party in BGee edition but neutral has very few and building a neutral party and trying to finish the game is almost impossible
Also Mr Spoiler isn't going to be playable in BG2:EE. Evil just has a full party in SoA now, plus Mr Anchev in ToB.
Neutral does have the weakest lineup overall, though. However, Jan, Haer'Dalis, and Jaheira are all pretty sweet.
That said, comparing a CN Anomen to Cernd is pretty unfair, particularly if you are simply looking at their stats. Anomen is a Dualed Fighter/Cleric, and is therefore ridiculously good even without the bonus spells: 18/52 STR is far from shoddy. And since you have Jaheira for healing, Anomen can concentrate purely on spells like DUHM and other things that make him pretty amazing. Cernd is a Shapeshifter. I think I can leave it at that.