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Help with mind flayers

Is it me or do the patches for this game make it more difficult. I'm currently in the illithid layer in the underdark and they are so much harder to kill. I can't berserk Minsc and have him wipe them out. My invisible stalkers are now vulnerable to the mind flayer's one hit kills and magic doesn't work on them.

Every single strategy I know is useless and so I need some suggestions.
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  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    edited March 2013
    The best tactic against Mind flayers are skeletal warriors. You can summon them from 'summon skeleton' at level 15. Also remember to use chaotic command (level 5 priest spell) to make you immune to the stun. The intellect drain will always be painful, and the best way is either to clog them up with normal summons for a precious seconds to get some hits in, or the best option being Summon skeletons (Level 15)

    [Edited] : You can get skeletal warriors on both the priest and mage summon skeleton spell. You just have to be level 15 to be able to get them. Once you get level 15 you won't get your normal 2-3 small skeletons but one skeletal warrior instead per spell. So get 5 summon skeleton spells to get 5 skeletal warriors, put haste on them and watch as they tear apart the mind flayers.
  • dementeddemented Member Posts: 388
    I suppose I should list the things I've already tried.

    Basically, everything on this site: http://www.gamebanshee.com/baldursgateii/strategies/mindflayers.php
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    edited March 2013
    Just to be sure, what patch are you talking about? SCS? Or a normal patch? As BGEE2 isn't released so this can't be BGEE I'm curiouse.

    [Edited] : Have you tried the skeletal warriors? Because they have always worked for me, as they don't get their intelligence drained and can't be stunned.

    Also Mind flayers drain intelligence on hit (-5 intelligence) and when you reach zero your character dies. Having minsc in berserk prevents the stun but if he gets hit twice he'll still instantly die from having his intelligence go in the minus. As long as you don't get hit (Have high AC) you won't get intelligence drained. And once you do, you should immediatly check in the character screen what their intelligence is now. If it's 6 or less then pull them out from combat.

    They are not all mind flayers, there are some ullithids also and such. Some of them are stronger than the others, it's important to look at their names and figure out which ones to be extra careful around.
  • dementeddemented Member Posts: 388
    The BG2 official patch and the Gibberlings 3 fixpatch.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    edited March 2013
    demented said:

    The BG2 official patch and the Gibberlings 3 fixpatch.

    Chaotic command on your whole team. Keep the people with high AC and intelligence over 10 on the front. Summon as many creatures as you can, preferable skeletal warriors or fire elements and then put chaotic command on any creature you summon that isn't undead. Haste everyone in your party and the summons and then try to go into melee combat. Once your characters get hit and get low on intelligence you send them to the back and out of combat.

    Spells should work fine on the mind flayers, especially skull trap on the normal ones.

    Also you can loot brine potions from the illithid birthing pods in their lair. Theese potions make your characters immune to their psionics attacks.

    [Edited] : The mind flayers have poor Thac0 but 3 APR and their cousins the ullithids have 4 APR. Each hit they connect will lower intelligence so if your fighters are stunned or have poor AC you'll get killed pretty quickly. It's worth using a shield to put up your AC when fighting them.

    Also their attacks are magical. So if you got a mage, sorcerer or bard with Protection from magical weapons (Level 6 mage spell) they won't be able to harm or drain your intelligence. So put your caster forward with protection from magical weapons, and once they focus that person you crush them with your melee.

    [Edited 2] : It's also worth using potions of genious to boost your intelligence up if you know you're about to fight mindflayers. You might not have them on you now, but the next time you get down there remember to bring some with you.
  • dementeddemented Member Posts: 388
    SionIV said:



    Chaotic command on your whole team. Keep the people with high AC and intelligence over 10 on the front. Summon as many creatures as you can, preferable skeletal warriors or fire elements and then put chaotic command on any creature you summon that isn't undead. Haste everyone in your party and the summons and then try to go into melee combat. Once your characters get hit and get low on intelligence you send them to the back and out of combat.

    Spells should work fine on the mind flayers, especially skull trap on the normal ones.

    Also you can loot brine potions from the illithid birthing pods in their lair. Theese potions make your characters immune to their psionics attacks.

    [Edited] : The mind flayers have poor Thac0 but 3 APR and their cousins the ullithids have 4 APR. Each hit they connect will lower intelligence so if your fighters are stunned or have poor AC you'll get killed pretty quickly. It's worth using a shield to put up your AC when fighting them.

    Also their attacks are magical. So if you got a mage, sorcerer or bard with Protection from magical weapons (Level 6 mage spell) they won't be able to harm or drain your intelligence. So put your caster forward with protection from magical weapons, and once they focus that person you crush them with your melee.

    Worked like a charm. Thanks.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    You're welcome :)
  • SpaceInvaderSpaceInvader Member Posts: 2,125
    @demented
    By reading your nickname and the first sentence of your post I feared it was already too late, glad to see you solved the problem!
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,675
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  • gesellegeselle Member Posts: 325
    Depending on your group, you should stick to summons and ranged attacks; Minsc is usually dead weight against mind flayers, so give him a longbow/crossbow. Mages can use melf's meteorites. Skeletons are very effective in tanking them, since they are unaffected by brain extraction. Btw. the ring of free action from spellhold protects you from the stun attacks. No idea if this is a bug or intended though.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    geselle said:

    Depending on your group, you should stick to summons and ranged attacks; Minsc is usually dead weight against mind flayers, so give him a longbow/crossbow. Mages can use melf's meteorites. Skeletons are very effective in tanking them, since they are unaffected by brain extraction. Btw. the ring of free action from spellhold protects you from the stun attacks. No idea if this is a bug or intended though.

    It isn't a bug. Ring of free action protects you against anything that would stop you from moving. So that is any stun in the game, or should be.
  • PawnSlayerPawnSlayer Member Posts: 295
    I always just use Mordenkainen's Swords. Immune to all physical and psionic damage, and incredibly powerful. Or Planetars, since I usually have those by the Underdark.
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    In case you are wondering howthey insta kill you, each time they hit, they drain 5 points of intelligence. Most joinable npcs have relatively low intelligence, which means they can only survive 1 hit. An int of 11 is recommended for most characters to they can survive 2 hits from mindflayers.
  • PawnSlayerPawnSlayer Member Posts: 295
    ajwz said:

    In case you are wondering howthey insta kill you, each time they hit, they drain 5 points of intelligence. Most joinable npcs have relatively low intelligence, which means they can only survive 1 hit. An int of 11 is recommended for most characters to they can survive 2 hits from mindflayers.

    Turning yourself into a Mindflayer using the spell Shapechange is a good way of invoking the Lord British Postulate and killing someone like Duke Eltan for the same reason :D
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited March 2013
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  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    edited March 2013

    SionIV said:

    It isn't a bug. Ring of free action protects you against anything that would stop you from moving. So that is any stun in the game, or should be.

    I kind of disagree. "Stun" connotes something that affects the mind (thus mind flayers using it); physical movement isn't restricted per se, it's just that your mind can't will your body to move. So the Free Action should not protect from stun effects. On the other hand, the word "stun" suggests a temporary, even momentary condition - you're stunned, not stopped - so the effect should only last a few seconds. Whereas the magical Hold effect keeps you physically frozen for an extended period of time... Hold should last longer, but Free Action should be an efficacious defense against it.

    Of course, the in-game effects are basically identical. This has, I fear, led to some sloppy coding and inconsistencies in application. 30-second-long 'stuns,' various kinds of free action working or not working against various kinds of movement restrictions, etc. Some mods fix things, but then other spell/item mods may introduce new inconsistencies... the game is a bit of a mess in this regard.
    "The wearer is immune to everything, magical or otherwise, that affects mobility in anyway. This includes haste and slow spells" .

    Are you mobile when you're stunned? No. And stun doesn't always connotes to something that affects the mind. If you get hit on the head with a club you'll be stunned for a second or two, and stopped in your tracks.

    And if you look at it like this, a guy hit your head with a club. You'll first be stunned, then dazed slightly and have problem with your mobility. You'll still be able to move, but not as fast atleast not for a short duration of time, just like if you're slowed.

    The fact that it sais "Magical or otherwise, that affects mobility in anyway" makes it quite clear that if you can't move your character it goes under the ring. I'm quite sure the ring of free action also works against demon gaze, but it's been such a long time since i used that ring in BG2 that i can't remember if that's correct or not.

    [Edited] : Imagine that you ran 500 meters. Anything that would slow you, is hindering your mobility aswell. Ofcourse this doesn't take into account getting wing slapped by a dragon or stopping to look at Korgan and Anomen making out behind The order of the radiant heart main building.

    [Edited 2] : But yes, it's a little bit ridiculous how good that ring is. It's the reason that i rate it as the best item in BG1. A ring you can get right from going out of candlekeep that removes the threat of web (And along with that spiders). Removes the threat of just about all clerics, ghouls and undeads, carrion crawlers and anything that can slow or stun you. It's just amazing how good that one piece of equipment is. Use it on a Cavalier or Inquisitor whom is immune to charm and you can walk through anything and not worry about losing control of your characters. (Confuse is still one frustrating status effect)
    Post edited by SionIV on
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited March 2013
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  • DelvarianDelvarian Member Posts: 1,232
    Immune to walls?....cool cool
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689

    Yes, the line "in any way" is the kicker. I don't think it's worth taking it too seriously, though. Petrification, Charm, and Confusion also affect your mobility "in any way" - not to mention dragon wing buffets and, you know, *walls* - but I don't think Free Action should protect against those things. I always read Free Action to protect against things that *directly* affect mobility (e.g. Hold, Slow, Haste) but not things that affect mobility indirectly, as a side-effect.

    And I would put stun in the latter category mostly because otherwise, in BG, it would be functionally *identical* to Hold. Why have two effects with two status icons and two opcodes to worry about when coding items & spells (introducing higher chances of bugs), if they're really just the same thing?? I say, either simplify the code and just use one effect, or else introduce meaningful differences between them to make the game more varied and interesting.

    If you're charmed you're still mobile, same with confusion. And if a dragon wing buffets you, you're still mobile you just can't pick which way to fly =P

    I would put petrification into the same category as death spells. Once you're petrified you're dead, literarly.

    I would have ring of free action protect against -> Any kind of hold (undead, the hold spell, web) haste, and slow. I would remove the protection from psionic and gaze stuns (Demons and mind flayers). But most importantly if theese changes were made you also have to remove the "In any way" from the ring.

    I agree that it's way too good for what it does, but with it's wording it really couldn't work any other way if you look at mechanics. It's a simple message that tell people they can't be stopped unless they are dead (Petrification) or charmed , confused (Not in control of you character, yet it can move).

  • DexterDexter Member Posts: 253
    Help with mind flayers

    korgan
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    Dexter said:

    Help with mind flayers

    korgan

    [Korgan gets hit a third time] -> [Mind flayer levels up]
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,264
    Here's another tip: The HLA deathblow or greater deathblow will instakill them.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    Tresset said:

    Here's another tip: The HLA deathblow or greater deathblow will instakill them.

    That's a good idea, but the question would be unless you're solo/duo how many times do you have your HLA when in underdark? And i guess the monks death palm would also work quite nicely but sadly that's only one kill per palm.

  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,264
    SionIV said:

    That's a good idea, but the question would be unless you're solo/duo how many times do you have your HLA when in underdark? And i guess the monks death palm would also work quite nicely but sadly that's only one kill per palm.

    Well the monk palm has a save which they will probably make but it can potentially take out more than one. Deathblow has no save and comes back when you rest. You can rest in there. Also the underdark is always about when I get my HLAs.
  • bbearbbear Member Posts: 1,180
    has anyone tried the wand of cloudkill? It's cheese but it works. One time, I purposefully lured all the mind flayers into the same chamber (boot of speed and ring of free action do stack together!). I spammed 2 cloudkills, closed the doors and watched and mindflayers withered!
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    bbear said:

    has anyone tried the wand of cloudkill? It's cheese but it works. One time, I purposefully lured all the mind flayers into the same chamber (boot of speed and ring of free action do stack together!). I spammed 2 cloudkills, closed the doors and watched and mindflayers withered!

    It's a great tactic for BG 2 vanilla game. It works on many frustrating fights, especially if there is a door. But you don't need a door to make this possible. Use a misleade to make yourself invinsible, then throw in 2 web spells and then 2-3 cloudkills. They will be stuck in the web spells and the cloudkill will kill them. Once you get level 6 spells, use Death cloud instead as it has a higher damage (But won't kill trolls and umberhulks instantly) .

    If you have SCS installed they will move away from the clouds, atleast in my installation.
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  • PawnSlayerPawnSlayer Member Posts: 295
    As a warning to anyone who thinks the Death spell is a reliable tactic - it isn't. It only works on the ones guarding Phaere (the Matron Mother's daughter) because that group is considered by the game to be Summoned, so any spell that insta-kills summoned creatures will work. All others do not fall to this. I also recommend against Cloudkill (or its upgrades Death Fog and Incendiary Cloud) because magic resistance means it takes ages to work, when other measures are far more efficient.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689

    As a warning to anyone who thinks the Death spell is a reliable tactic - it isn't. It only works on the ones guarding Phaere (the Matron Mother's daughter) because that group is considered by the game to be Summoned, so any spell that insta-kills summoned creatures will work. All others do not fall to this. I also recommend against Cloudkill (or its upgrades Death Fog and Incendiary Cloud) because magic resistance means it takes ages to work, when other measures are far more efficient.

    Cloud kill and death fog is still the best bet if you want to cast spells. They have to succeede their magic resist check everytime they would take damage. So throwing 3 of those would still kill a whole group of mindflayers without trouble as they got low health to begin with.
  • PawnSlayerPawnSlayer Member Posts: 295
    As opposed to just sending in a single Mordenkainen's Sword to wipe out the lot in half the time? Two at the most are needed for any group of Flayers in the game.
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