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hardest boss in forgotten realms history?

13

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  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,686
    edited March 2013
    tilly said:

    SionIV said:


    I don't understand why people found Aec'Letec hard. Use potions of mirroring and his gaze doesn't work.

    With preparation, is any fight hard? -_-

    I know not everyone roleplays, but... how is a low level group of adventurers supposed to know about the demon's death gaze before the battle starts?
    Yes, mind flayers and beholders can still be a pain in the arse, along with alot of mages. If we start thinking "You don't know!" then every single fight in this game is hard. You'll get slaughtered by umber hulks, vampires will level drain you and end your whole party because you don't know about an amulet. Mind flayers and dragons.... See where i'm going?

    People have trouble with Sarevok, i can understand this. He is dangerous to get close to as he got insane Thac0 and damage, not to mention he got a couple of cronies that help and are almost as dangerouse as he is himself.

    Aec'Letec is just a potion of mirroring and killing the humans standing around him first. It's like using a scroll of protection of undead against a lich, the only difference is that you'll find that potions of mirroring can be found almost everywhere.

    It's fine to roleplay, and i have respect for the people that do it. And roleplaying can brighten up almost any thread and make it more interesting and unique, i just find it amusing that people preach about it in this thread. I apologize if this offends you, or anyone else.

    Sick_Boy
  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Member Posts: 5,702
    Chow said:


    Technically, level 7-9 is already pretty high-level in 2nd edition.

    Eh, I'd put 15th and higher as high level.

  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,686
    edited March 2013
    tilly said:

    Chow said:


    Technically, level 7-9 is already pretty high-level in 2nd edition.

    Eh, I'd put 15th and higher as high level.
    7-9 used to be high level in 2nd edition. The dukes of Baldur's gate were pretty much taken from P&P and their level 6-8. When you're level 15 and higher you're almost at the same as Drizzt, and close to Elminster and such. That's very powerful. Most known characters are around 7-12 or something like that. The purple knight leader is level 9 if i remember right.

    My memory is rusty, but i don't think i ever got past level 7 in P&P.

    [Edited] : I think belt is level 11, but i really can't remember.

    [Deleted User]
  • DarrylsonDarrylson Member Posts: 87
    In the middle of my first SCS run of BG2 and improved Tor'Gal is proving to be a real pain in the ass. It's most likely because I went to the De"Arnise Keep almost immediately after the start of chapter 2 (since my planned party included Nalia and she was starting to complain) and was ill-equipped and low level. I can honestly say this is the hardest encounter I've had in my history of playing the Baldur's Gate series, but then again I've never completed ToB or used any tactical mods in the past.

    Oddly enough I made a different character today and absolutely breezed through the Unseeing Eye quest.

  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,686
    Darrylson said:

    In the middle of my first SCS run of BG2 and improved Tor'Gal is proving to be a real pain in the ass. It's most likely because I went to the De"Arnise Keep almost immediately after the start of chapter 2 (since my planned party included Nalia and she was starting to complain) and was ill-equipped and low level. I can honestly say this is the hardest encounter I've had in my history of playing the Baldur's Gate series, but then again I've never completed ToB or used any tactical mods in the past.

    Oddly enough I made a different character today and absolutely breezed through the Unseeing Eye quest.

    Improved Thorgal used to be a show stopper for almost everyone, he was also one of the first boss upgrades that got added to tactics back in the days.

  • DarrylsonDarrylson Member Posts: 87
    SionIV said:

    Darrylson said:

    In the middle of my first SCS run of BG2 and improved Tor'Gal is proving to be a real pain in the ass. It's most likely because I went to the De"Arnise Keep almost immediately after the start of chapter 2 (since my planned party included Nalia and she was starting to complain) and was ill-equipped and low level. I can honestly say this is the hardest encounter I've had in my history of playing the Baldur's Gate series, but then again I've never completed ToB or used any tactical mods in the past.

    Oddly enough I made a different character today and absolutely breezed through the Unseeing Eye quest.

    Improved Thorgal used to be a show stopper for almost everyone, he was also one of the first boss upgrades that got added to tactics back in the days.
    Yeah, it's been about 2 days and I haven't even touched that save file. I'll probably just abandon it and stick with my Fighter/Cleric who has had great success at turning beholders and mages into swiss cheese today.

  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,686
    Darrylson said:

    SionIV said:

    Darrylson said:

    In the middle of my first SCS run of BG2 and improved Tor'Gal is proving to be a real pain in the ass. It's most likely because I went to the De"Arnise Keep almost immediately after the start of chapter 2 (since my planned party included Nalia and she was starting to complain) and was ill-equipped and low level. I can honestly say this is the hardest encounter I've had in my history of playing the Baldur's Gate series, but then again I've never completed ToB or used any tactical mods in the past.

    Oddly enough I made a different character today and absolutely breezed through the Unseeing Eye quest.

    Improved Thorgal used to be a show stopper for almost everyone, he was also one of the first boss upgrades that got added to tactics back in the days.
    Yeah, it's been about 2 days and I haven't even touched that save file. I'll probably just abandon it and stick with my Fighter/Cleric who has had great success at turning beholders and mages into swiss cheese today.
    I always keep improved Thor'gal for last. Some of my No-reload games i remove him from my mod list, as i also use to take the keep first and get myself FoA.

  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Member Posts: 5,702
    edited March 2013
    SionIV said:


    7-9 used to be very high level in 2nd edition. The dukes of Baldur's gate were pretty much taken from P&P and their level 6-8. When you're level 15 and higher you're almost at the same as Drizzt, and close to Elminster and such. That's very powerful. Most known characters are around 7-12 or something like that. The purple knight leader is level 9 if i remember right.

    Hmph - Elminster this, Elminster that... v_v
    SionIV said:


    Yes, mind flayers and beholders can still be a pain in the arse, along with alot of mages. I we start thinking "You don't know!" then every single fight in this game is hard. You'll get slaughtered by umber hulks, vampires will level drain you and end your whole party because you don't know about an amulet. Mind flayers and dragons.... See where i'm going?

    People have trouble with Sarevok, i can understand this. He is dangerous to get close to as he got insane Thac0 and damage, not to mention he got a couple of cronies that help and are almost as dangerouse as he is himself.

    Aec'Letec is just a potion of mirroring and killing the humans standing around him first. It's like using a scroll of protection of undead against a lich, the only difference is that you'll find that potions of mirroring can be found almost everywhere.

    Oi! ^-^ I do see where you're going: down a slippery slope. Simply because I roleplay, doesn't mean I have trouble constantly with a variety of encounters. I'm actually quite good at playing, tending towards handicapping myself and playing no re-loading or minimal re-loading games.

    I have one question for you: Is the game ever a challenge for you? Because it rather sounds like you prepare for everything... don't you? If I always had the perfect tools for every single difficult encounter, I'd stop playing for lack of challenge. No, if you don't prepare perfectly, you won't come out of every encounter unscathed. But you will come out it if you're generally prepared and cautious - and willing to take a hit.


    Aec'Letec is one, unique fight. I can't recall of other demons with death gaze: they have a hold gaze. Other demons are easier in this sense - even in BG2.

    You should always be prepared for mages.
    Beholders are trouble, but they are not in many areas. Even if they get the drop on you, the party can take them down.
    Mind flayers are easy from a distance and are slow moving.
    Vampires are not difficult, even when level drained a few times. Protection from undead makes sense in the crypts...
    Dragons tend to announce their presence, allowing time for powering up.
    And Irenicus just sits there, waiting for you to set traps at his feet. He may as well levitate naked with a target painted on his chest...

    Sarevok tends to die before his party does much of anything. I have trouble keeping him alive long enough to trash the rest of his team first. :/

    ... Why are umber hulks on your list? :|


    NOW who says I have trouble with everything, you-you-you random internet person? ^-^ oooOOh!! *raises handbag*

    !! Why in my day we didn't have an "internet"! *grumbly grumbles* ... in my day... draw maps... grid paper... yes... 1 game 1 dungeon... bbs... no walkthroughs... snow uphill uphill... frozen keyboard... floppy floppies... <_<

    lunar
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 7,683
    tilly said:

    Why in my day we didn't have an "internet"! *grumbly grumbles* ... in my day... draw maps... grid paper... yes... 1 game 1 dungeon... bbs... no walkthroughs... snow uphill uphill... frozen keyboard... floppy floppies... <_<</p>

    @tilly My parents did that for this really old game called bardstale. Grid maps and such. I tried playing it once and I have no idea how they did it. I even used their maps and I couldn't get very far. I guess I have been spoiled by things like "item descriptions" and "built in maps" and "manuals".

    typo_tilly
  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    @tilly - I agree as what I found so challenging about Aec'Letec the first few times was trying to figure out how to deal with the death gaze. Antidotes? Fail. Protection from Petrification? Fail.

    Oooh, I know...Protection from Magic scroll? Fail. (I'm still not sure why this doesn't work).

    Definitely frustrating until you figure it out or read a FAQ.

    Kangaxx was like that as well. I know - protection from undead (ooooh, he just targeted the rest of my party instead...ouch). Fail.

    Once you have played the game enough times and have the strategies down, you can get through anything. Improved Thorgal remains a toughie as I refuse to not do Nalia's quest early in BG2.

    typo_tilly
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    tilly said:

    SionIV said:


    I don't understand why people found Aec'Letec hard. Use potions of mirroring and his gaze doesn't work.

    With preparation, is any fight hard? -_-

    I know not everyone roleplays, but... how is a low level group of adventurers supposed to know about the demon's death gaze before the battle starts?
    There's a really cryptic reference by that Ghoul in Durlag's Tower about his death gaze, but it doesn;t tell you what it does. Regardless, you know about the 'gaze' and so could feasibly be prepared.

    typo_tilly[Deleted User]Aasimar069
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    edited March 2013
    tilly said:

    With preparation, is any fight hard? -_-

    If you've done it all before and know what sort of preparations work best, then no, at least not particularly hard. If you don't know your enemy's weaknesses, then of course many battles can be pretty tough.
    tilly said:

    I know not everyone roleplays, but... how is a low level group of adventurers supposed to know about the demon's death gaze before the battle starts?

    Because you're warned about the demon's death gaze by Grael (the leader of the Greater Ghouls in the final level of Durlag's labyrinth). The journal entry generated by this encounter is even more explicit than what Grael actually says: it is specific that Grael's warning concerns a tanar'ri with a death-gaze.

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,107
    If you're arguing against foreknowledge like that, better be prepared to play the game only once, with no reloads. Anything else is tainting the information your character would naturally have.

    So yeah, video games just don't work like that.

  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 7,683
    @tilly There is also this guy called Hurgin who tells you exactly what Aec is: a nabassu. You may have learned about such a creature and its death gaze back in candlekeep.

  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Member Posts: 5,702
    edited March 2013

    If you're arguing against foreknowledge like that, better be prepared to play the game only once, with no reloads. Anything else is tainting the information your character would naturally have.

    So yeah, video games just don't work like that.

    Yes, because of foreknowledge you can never completely role-play a second playthrough.
    Yes, because of die rolls you can never completely meta-game to get the same results twice.

    Inside that spectrum is where we play, some more to role-playing and some more to meta-gaming.
    People play over and over again with different characters and party combinations, sometimes role-playing in games and sometimes not.

    I'm not against people who play with high character attributes or people who use walkthroughs and faqs or plan their character builds around equipment found mid-game or whatever such else is done to take on game encounters.

    So let me play idiot parties sometimes, aright? And don't give me any guff about it maybe.


    There's a really cryptic reference by that Ghoul in Durlag's Tower about his death gaze, but it doesn;t tell you what it does. Regardless, you know about the 'gaze' and so could feasibly be prepared.

    Ah, I'd forgotten, thanks! :) I've been restarting so much lately that I've not gotten a team there in a while. ^_^

    Post edited by typo_tilly on
    EudaemoniumAristillius
  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    Tresset said:

    @tilly There is also this guy called Hurgin who tells you exactly what Aec is: a nabassu. You may have learned about such a creature and its death gaze back in candlekeep.

    Coming to BG1 after BG2, it was actually more confusing having fought a nabassu already and then seemingly dying out of the blue. Then the scroll of protection from magic failing...I was a little flummoxed. Dispel magic didn't jump to mind because if a scroll of protection from magic doesn't work then it must not be magic and therefore dispel magic is useless right?

  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    I never realised dispel magic worked. The first time I beat Aec I just re-loaded a lot until I got through it without being death-gazed. There were many, many, re-loads.

    [Deleted User]
  • Kitteh_On_A_CloudKitteh_On_A_Cloud Member Posts: 1,629
    Baldur's Gate: Kangaxx and Aec'Letec.
    Icewind Dale: Yxunomei

    [Deleted User]
  • WebShamanWebShaman Member Posts: 483
    Well, well! I don't see anyone really answering the OP's question. The hardest boss in FR history is a DM run Boss in NWN.

    Yup.

    You see, a real human intelligence can react to what players do and come up with. No, you will NOT be using the "same o, same o" method to defeat this boss!

    Imagine your surprise (and horror) when that old, tested and tried method of beating boss X FAILS HORRIBLY! And it speaks back to you! And then you realize...this is not an AI controlled computer beastie! It is a DM possessing it! AAAAAHHHHHHH! Run, run, RUN!!!!

    Believe me, the first time it happens to you, you...will...RUN!

    Be afraid. Be very afraid.

    Of course, actually beating such a daunting foe brings a sort of satisfaction and reward that no mere "AI Beastie" can.

    So, the answer is DM controlled Boss in NWN.

    Flashburn
  • Copastetic1985Copastetic1985 Member Posts: 277
    WebShaman said:

    Well, well! I don't see anyone really answering the OP's question. The hardest boss in FR history is a DM run Boss in NWN.

    Yup.

    You see, a real human intelligence can react to what players do and come up with. No, you will NOT be using the "same o, same o" method to defeat this boss!

    Imagine your surprise (and horror) when that old, tested and tried method of beating boss X FAILS HORRIBLY! And it speaks back to you! And then you realize...this is not an AI controlled computer beastie! It is a DM possessing it! AAAAAHHHHHHH! Run, run, RUN!!!!

    Believe me, the first time it happens to you, you...will...RUN!

    Be afraid. Be very afraid.

    Of course, actually beating such a daunting foe brings a sort of satisfaction and reward that no mere "AI Beastie" can.

    So, the answer is DM controlled Boss in NWN.

    Now that sounds pretty fun and funny. I wish we had like a spectator feature or something for a person to take over an enemy like in RE6.

    Imagine a halfway smart Aec'telec, Sarevok, or Demonknight.

  • WebShamanWebShaman Member Posts: 483
    edited March 2013
    ^ That! It really would be glorious! I personally think that the DM Client in NWN is one of the most profound advancements that RPGs received in recent times. Too bad it doesn't seem to be making it's way into the mainstream.

    Flashburn
  • AristilliusAristillius Member Posts: 873
    Aec‘letec! Really struggled with him, including with preperation x) Havent tried Kangaxx yet, but he isnt the lich in the sewers by the unseeing eye deserters?

  • PawnSlayerPawnSlayer Member Posts: 295

    Aec‘letec! Really struggled with him, including with preperation x) Havent tried Kangaxx yet, but he isnt the lich in the sewers by the unseeing eye deserters?

    No, that Lich is just an ordinary one (itechnically called a Shade Lich, but in practice it functions like an ordinary one). Kill that to get one of the body parts required for Kangaxx, who is significantly harder.

    Thinking about it again, the hardest boss for me is The Ravager. Is there even a reliable strategy for beating that guy?

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,107

    Thinking about it again, the hardest boss for me is The Ravager. Is there even a reliable strategy for beating that guy?

    Beating on it stupidly until it dies has always worked for me so far. It doesn't do anything special, it just has good stats, defenses, and damage-output.

    Tbh, I don't think any boss can be "the hardest" unless it's a caster. Casters are the only problematic enemies. I can't think of a single exception really...

    AHF
  • PawnSlayerPawnSlayer Member Posts: 295
    That would certainly be the reason why Draconis is so much harder than his father, who just stands there whacking you. I've beaten The Ravager several times, but I've never had a locked down strategy that works, unlike for almost everything else. Just beat it again with something that works well - Sequencer with 3 Pierce Magics followed by two Chain Contingencies loaded with 3 Abi Dhalzhim's Horrid Wiltings set to fire on sight at the nearest enemy (this requires running around the back of the Ravager so as not to waste the on the Bone Blades).

    The same trick is actually how I beat Draconis and Demogorgon, though for those guys I put a breach at the start of the sequencer.

  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,017
    It's funny but people talk about "The toughest" boss. I am currently doing the planar sphere in my BG2 trek. The room with the Halflings in it is particularly tough for my party. We are in the 9-12 range with Korgan, Viconia, Jaheira Jan, Yoshimo and my main (11th level pure wizard). The wizard in that fight is particularly tough for me as he keeps on casting defenses on top of confusion and an occasional Maze spell. Even with two wizards and a cleric casting, it is a really tough battle. I don't even want to think how tough the main baddie is going to be.

    I am not a power player. I am probably not even a very good player. But I have fun. And the toughest opponents for me are those that I can't simply bash until dead.

    Eudaemonium
  • Aasimar069Aasimar069 Member Posts: 803
    Tresset said:

    @tilly There is also this guy called Hurgin who tells you exactly what Aec is: a nabassu. You may have learned about such a creature and its death gaze back in candlekeep.

    Yes, also there are books in Forgotten Realms, and the characters do not have to suffer every status ailments before being able to counter them...

    A wise mage/cleric would certainly read about basilisk, demons and other dangerous creatures and share his/her knowledge with other party members...

  • Aasimar069Aasimar069 Member Posts: 803
    SionIV said:

    tilly said:

    SionIV said:


    I don't understand why people found Aec'Letec hard. Use potions of mirroring and his gaze doesn't work.

    With preparation, is any fight hard? -_-

    I know not everyone roleplays, but... how is a low level group of adventurers supposed to know about the demon's death gaze before the battle starts?
    Yes, mind flayers and beholders can still be a pain in the arse, along with alot of mages. If we start thinking "You don't know!" then every single fight in this game is hard. You'll get slaughtered by umber hulks, vampires will level drain you and end your whole party because you don't know about an amulet. Mind flayers and dragons.... See where i'm going?

    People have trouble with Sarevok, i can understand this. He is dangerous to get close to as he got insane Thac0 and damage, not to mention he got a couple of cronies that help and are almost as dangerouse as he is himself.

    Aec'Letec is just a potion of mirroring and killing the humans standing around him first. It's like using a scroll of protection of undead against a lich, the only difference is that you'll find that potions of mirroring can be found almost everywhere.

    It's fine to roleplay, and i have respect for the people that do it. And roleplaying can brighten up almost any thread and make it more interesting and unique, i just find it amusing that people preach about it in this thread. I apologize if this offends you, or anyone else.

    Book could be a great way to learn about all these dangers before adventuring. That's why you can consider adventurers are prepared before venturing in the wilderness.

  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816
    edited April 2013
    Although I played BG when it first came out, this is my first time playing ToSC - so I was surprised reading this thread that you actually get to fight a tanarri in BG1 (Alec'Letec). I hurried through durlag's tower to give the fight a shot and managed to do it with only one reload (the fight, not the tower - to be fair, I did have foreknowledge of needing to kill the cultists first).

    Buffed party with bless, resist fear, barkskin for the PC kensai and Rasaad, haste, and defensive harmony. Gave potions of freedom to everybody, potions of fire giant strength to the melee characters, and got Neera and Imoen ready with wands of fire/oils of fiery burning.

    Went downstairs, sent Minsc, kensai, and Rasaad (not that he contributed much) after the nearby female mage while Neera and Imoen began launching a constant barrage of flaming death at the edge of the fog of war to start wiping out as many cultists as possible without hitting the melee trio. Jaheira starts targetting the cultists the fire couldn't reach with the wand of the heavens. By now Alec'Letec has reached the melee team, so Kai and Berserker rage. The cultists are all dead within a round and everybody focuses on the demon (with the exception of Jaheira, who starts healing) until he goes down.

    After it was all said and done, I thought I was home free until I noticed that two party members were rapidly dying from the gaze effect. I paused and checked Neera, who had exactly one dispel memorized. I thought there was no way it would work, but she was able to dispel the effect with only a few HP left on the afflicted characters. Awesome.

    And so while the fight turned out not to be the hardest for my particular party, it was definitely one of the most satisfying. Hardest probably still has to be Kangaxx - I've had trouble with him even while cheating.

    Post edited by Purudaya on
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358
    i think in vanilla bg2 liches and final bosses are the harderst because of course mages are the best in 2nd edition

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