@Senash The problem is that, especially later on, there are many spells, weapons and natural attacks with secondary effects (paralyzation, blindness, slow, level draining, vorpal, stats draining, etc...). So in general it's always better to have 1 PfMW/Spell Immunity up your sleeve, because they will be worth a lot more than 100(?) hp. "Prevention is better than cure"
I think you are missing the point i am trying to make. If you want a spellasaurus rex, play normal sorcerer, since ddis is, as i said, atm a worse version of the same damn thing.
This is why i suggested giving new options, so the kit would let people work out some new strategies. As it is, its not horrible, but thats because its a slightly worse version of the best class. Wouldnt you rather play a kit that lets you try a new strat instead of just using an identical play style?
@DreadKhan If you are referring to me, I just explained why a simple increasement of hp wouldn't change anything. I agree that making it more combat-oriented (for example) would provide a nice alternative.
I favour improving their thac0 progression to thief, and giving them more hp, as you COULD try using them in melee vs mooks without heaps of prebuff. Thats why i thought maybe 2 less spells per level would be okay, because you would have other options. You can still buff for big fights, but you will not rely on spells to wipe out mooks or mini-bossez.
Noo... >__< please don't take away another spell slot. We cast our HLAs from our level 9 spell slots. That's going to terrorize the class completely. Just change +2 con to +2 str and make our dragon breath attack work like HLA ones. Make the damage progression work like it currently is now, but let the way it hits people work like the HLA version.
My view was that you would, you know, TRY SOMETHING NEW, ie not the exact same high level spellcaster bg2 allowed with sorcerer... why are you playing ee if you dont want anything new? Well, the interface is nice, but new strats is like uber... why would I pay for what I already bought in vanilla soa? 2 str wont make a sorc a melee capable build at all.
Hla can give better breath weapon, but new strats are uber.
Actually I wasn't really hoping for a melee increase. I only said increase str because that allows us to get 20 str with a 18 str build. This increases the thac0 and damage... for those that need them. Personally, I am more hoping toward a few Dragon Disciple only spells like wild mages. Because even with increased thac0, we still won't be melee capable either... We still won't have more than 1 attack per round without haste. Making us melee capable is just turning us into a gimped bard... without HLAs.....
Please explain how a character with acess to 9th level spells is remotely a gimped bard?? Bards cap at 6th in BG. Apr isnt everything, especially you are durable. You arent going to tank boss fights with those changes, but you could handle minor enemies without relying on spells alone.
Sorry for the late reply. >_< Was out of the town for a couple of days.
Here is why I think dragon disciple will be a gimped bard. Bards have the ability to use any items, including powerful and broken ones alike. They don't need level 9 spells, their trap does more damage and they can be used more times than our level 9 ones. Not to mention traps can often be laid before battle to 1 shot anything, including Demogorgon himself. In addition, their improved bard song turns party members into killing machines.
At late games, the battle tactics of sorcerers is centered around level 9 spells. So.. really? You want to take away another spell slot for mediocre melee improvement? >_< It's really not going to help balance us with other classes at late game... especially in TOB. Why not just roll a kensage if one so desires to play a melee caster. Besides, even with the melee improvement, I don't think Dragon Disciple can melee any where near a kensage. We will know so much less spells too... = =
Just add the melee improvement. Don't take away another spell slot.
I do not see anything wrong with the Dragon Disciple. It has advantages and disadvantages like every class should have.
From your point of view every Cleric kits can be considered OP, since they don't have disadvantages. While a Berserker, on the other hand, is totally normal.
They could just remove the Dragon Disciple as a class if people have issues with it...
It has been said many times already: almost every DD-player use this kit just because of the roleplaying concept, and not because of true advantages compared to a normal Sorcerer. That being said, it is obvious by reading every DD thread that the people have issues with its pros/cons and bugs. Therefore, fixing it and making it more appreciable would solve the problem. Removing the kit would just make them more disappointed.
Comments
The problem is that, especially later on, there are many spells, weapons and natural attacks with secondary effects (paralyzation, blindness, slow, level draining, vorpal, stats draining, etc...).
So in general it's always better to have 1 PfMW/Spell Immunity up your sleeve, because they will be worth a lot more than 100(?) hp.
"Prevention is better than cure"
This is why i suggested giving new options, so the kit would let people work out some new strategies. As it is, its not horrible, but thats because its a slightly worse version of the best class. Wouldnt you rather play a kit that lets you try a new strat instead of just using an identical play style?
If you are referring to me, I just explained why a simple increasement of hp wouldn't change anything.
I agree that making it more combat-oriented (for example) would provide a nice alternative.
I favour improving their thac0 progression to thief, and giving them more hp, as you COULD try using them in melee vs mooks without heaps of prebuff. Thats why i thought maybe 2 less spells per level would be okay, because you would have other options. You can still buff for big fights, but you will not rely on spells to wipe out mooks or mini-bossez.
Hla can give better breath weapon, but new strats are uber.
Here is why I think dragon disciple will be a gimped bard. Bards have the ability to use any items, including powerful and broken ones alike. They don't need level 9 spells, their trap does more damage and they can be used more times than our level 9 ones. Not to mention traps can often be laid before battle to 1 shot anything, including Demogorgon himself. In addition, their improved bard song turns party members into killing machines.
At late games, the battle tactics of sorcerers is centered around level 9 spells. So.. really? You want to take away another spell slot for mediocre melee improvement? >_< It's really not going to help balance us with other classes at late game... especially in TOB. Why not just roll a kensage if one so desires to play a melee caster. Besides, even with the melee improvement, I don't think Dragon Disciple can melee any where near a kensage. We will know so much less spells too... = =
Just add the melee improvement. Don't take away another spell slot.