Skip to content

Who Gets the Throne of Bhaal if CHARNAME dies?

2

Comments

  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,460
    Melissan's plan has fooled all the Bhaalspawns, including charname, right until to the end. As aplayer you yourself can suspect her motives from the first encounter, but that does not count. :-)

    Sarevok has planned to do some dark ritual to channel his divine essence at the end of BG1, when he has caused mass scale death by fueling a war. I wonder how that would have worked. I don't believe that could have been succesful, Bhaal never wanted one of his children to take his position. He wanted to be reborn after his demise, throughout the divine essence scattered in his many children, and has entrusted the secret ritual and access to all the combined essence to his greatest Matriarch, Amelysan the Black-hearted. And guess what, she had fooled him too, she never wanted to bring Bhaal back, but use the collected divine essence and the secret of the rituals to ascend to godhood herself. And she very nearly succeeds. Now, as cool as Sarevok is, he looks very amaeturish and low-scale when compared to Melyssan. Like a child playing with the power he has limited knowledge pf, and hoping and gambling it would make him a god. It's a very good gamble, but still Melyssan has the upper hand all along, she is 'in the inside' while Sarevok tries to add up the facts himself.

    Also, Melysan never acted against Sarevok, maybe she found his plan to be silly and knew it just wouldn't work. She did not care if there was a big war between Amn and Baldur's Gate, if anything it would only cause the death of a few more Bhaalspawn and strengthen her power. If there was even a slim chance of Sarevok's plan being succesful she would have acted immediately.
  • Magnus_GrelichMagnus_Grelich Member Posts: 361
    edited April 2013
    In case anyone forgot, Solar tells CHARNAME that the prophecy is what will happen if they fail, which implies that without them, Am- I mean, Melissan will win.

    I say this for several reasons:
    Sarevok was ruthless and driven, but then aren't all the main players in this? Ultimately, there was no way to be sure that Sarevok's original plan would have succeeded. He may have knocked Illasera out of her place with the five, but beyond that, he would've been just another pawn.

    Of the five, perhaps only Balthazar or Abazigal might have stood a chance at victory; the latter through their draconic might and Balthazar through his knowledge of what Melissan truly was. He was going to take his own life after the others were dead though, so unless that includes M, he would ultimately be handing victory to her. Which seems rather stupid.

    Melissan knew almost everything that was transpiring, and essentially orchestrated this whole series of events to her will. I'd say without you, her plans would have succeeded, and she would be the sole claimant of Bhaal's throne. Whether the Gods - and Ao - would allow her to remain, however, is something that needs more debate.
  • SwordsNotWordsSwordsNotWords Member Posts: 147
    I seem to remember Abazigal being the toughest encounter for me personally in my one full play through of ToB, so I say him.
  • StrayedMonkeyStrayedMonkey Member Posts: 146
    edited April 2013
    hmm i'd have to go with Sarevok. Godly stats. and not to mention his armor and sword being fueled by his bhaal essence, which we unfortunately don't get access to. My first run through the original I was hoping he would drop his armor and sword at the end. But anywho...I haven't checked Sarevoks resistance in BGEE but I know in the Vanilla BG they were insane.

    and deathbringer assault? boom boom.

    also he does have 17 DEX and 17 INT, which does leave the door open to some crazy off the wall chance that he duals to a mage or thief...just a possibility to ponder.

    and he is most likely not on the radar for Irenicus because it probably too risky to try and snag him. Irenicus would go for Imoen. Super easy without CHARNAME around.
    Post edited by StrayedMonkey on
  • DuronDuron Member Posts: 142
    Interesting situation. But to be honest I can see Imoen as the one taking over her sibling's place. Simply put, by canon party she would be a perfect substitute for protagonist. She maybe ain't a leader of party, but I can see her placing herself as a member they will want to keep safe and we know that our party is more then smart/strong enough to do what is needed.

    If we don't put Imoen as a friend of protagonist and she wasn't with him at the Friendly arms inn and she came there only after him she probably joined with Jaheira and Khalid and thwarted Sarevok at Nashkel. Rest would be history.

    If we leave Imoen out of it and Sarevok actually got what he wanted he wouldn't win. Baldur's gate would be destroyed by Amn, he would be on the run and honestly he is not a leader of man without his power. He intimidates, as he is he wouldn't be able to gather enough loyal followers to guard him in the Bhallspawn war.

    I actually believe that in such a situation it would come down to Balthazar and Melisandre, with me giving advantage to Balthazar. Personally I think he and his monks (after they found out how to kill Yaga-Sura who would have killed all other Bhallspawn) would beat Yaga with more then enough troops left for Balthazar to actually get the Throne against Melisandre.

    But like I said, personally I think Imoen would become new protagonist guarded by her friends Jaheira/Minsc/Khalid/Dynaheir probably Branwen 2 and honestly Viconia. She is a girl from behind, but not a dumb one, she would protect Vico from the Iron fist and maybe even take her with her, if not in BG1 then after the stake burning she would take her with her without a doubt. In BG2 she would befriend Aerie/Anomen/Keldorn/Cernd/Haer'dalis but wouldn't accept Yoshimo as she herself acts the same as him and would see through his "betrayal". Only question is would the group save her from Spellhold and would they escape from there without the avatar, everything else would be quite easy tbh.
  • SamuelVargSamuelVarg Member Posts: 598
    Why? - Because Monks rule!
  • mjsmjs Member Posts: 742
    Either mellisan or balthazar. Mellisan had the rest fooled only balthazar had a plan to defeat her
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,675
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    Samus said:

    Sarevok is also a potential contender if you assume he continued to gain in power and maintained a close group of powerful allies to assist him.

    Except that the Iron Throne was already tearing itself apart before Sarevok was ready to make his move: Tamoko was conspiring against Cythandria, Winski Perorate was completely powerless, Rieltar was being undermined by Sarevok... and, of course, he was planning to discard them anyway once he became Grand Duke.
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    @MilesBeyond, I looked up Irenicus' wiki, and you're right. He was seeking to enter the elven pantheon when he was exiled, not just to increase his personal power.

    So, given that godhood was in fact his goal, he should be part of this discussion. Unthwarted by Charname, Irenicus could very well have succeeded in stealing enough Bhaal essence to become the new Lord of Murder.

    So, in my opinion, that puts the contest down to Sarevok, Melissan, or Irenicus. It would have been Sarevok vs. Irenicus, and then, the winner of that match vs. Melissan.
  • bill_zagoudisbill_zagoudis Member Posts: 207
    Noober
  • Montresor_SPMontresor_SP Member Posts: 2,208
    edited April 2013

    @MilesBeyond, I looked up Irenicus' wiki, and you're right. He was seeking to enter the elven pantheon when he was exiled, not just to increase his personal power.

    So, given that godhood was in fact his goal, he should be part of this discussion. Unthwarted by Charname, Irenicus could very well have succeeded in stealing enough Bhaal essence to become the new Lord of Murder.

    So, in my opinion, that puts the contest down to Sarevok, Melissan, or Irenicus. It would have been Sarevok vs. Irenicus, and then, the winner of that match vs. Melissan.

    Unfortunately the system only allows for ten choices to a poll, otherwise I would have added Irenicus and Bodhi as separate options.

    Irenicus and Bodhi are indeed wild cards in the equation. If Charname had died, they would have had to find other Bhaalspawns. Assuming that they succeeded, they would both have possessed a part of Bhaal's essence, and Irenicus might have succeeded in using the Tree of Life to join the Seldarine; otherwise he might have sought to take over Bhaal's throne. But according to what Demin (the priestess in Suldanessellar) tells you, Bodhi was originally the ambitious one and might also have made a try for the throne. Both would have been worthy adversaries even for the five or Mellisan.

    Noober

    Perish the thought! *shudders*

    :D
  • MilesBeyondMilesBeyond Member Posts: 324


    Irenicus and Bodhi are indeed wild cards in the equation. If Charname had died, they would have had to find other Bhaalspawns. Assuming that they succeeded, they would both have possessed a part of Bhaal's essence, and Irenicus might have succeeded in using the Tree of Life to join the Seldarine; otherwise he might have sought to take over Bhaal's throne. But according to what Demin (the priestess in Suldanessellar) tells you, Bodhi was originally the ambitious one and might also have made a try for the throne. Both would have been worthy adversaries even for the five or Mellisan.


    Since Irenicus seems to capture you as soon as you leave Baldur's Gate (IIRC there's like a week or two between BG1 and BG2) my guess would be that he was observing the conflict between CHARNAME and Sarevok and planned to use the victor (i.e. "the stronger soul") for his own personal experiments (with Imoen thrown in for good measure). So likely, the events of BG2 would have transpired regardless, only with Sarevok instead of CHARNAME - maybe even before he became Grand Duke.

    This is the big decider, because if Irenicus bolsters Sarevok's powers as he did CHARNAME, then Sarevok would likely take the Throne as CHARNAME did - assuming Sarevok could defeat Irenicus.

    And as Sarevok vs Irenicus sounds more like terrible fan fiction than anything else, let's just leave it at that.
  • ElendarElendar Member Posts: 831
    TIAX RULES ALL!
  • AnduinAnduin Member Posts: 5,745
    edited April 2013
    @Elendar Ah yes, Tiax the gnome who wishes to rule all, and a most annoying catchphrase...

    well...

    *large inhale of breath*

    TIAX CAN TAKE A RULER AND SHOVE IT INTO HIS PERSONAL CREVICE, SO HE CAN MAKE A START BY RULING HIMSELF!

    ...IMHO...

    ...

    As inspired by Portalbendwellen chappy dialogue, of the coin on edge or more importantly AND Elminsters hat fame...
    Post edited by Anduin on
  • redlineredline Member Posts: 296
    I have nothing to add to the insights already posted here, except to say that this is an awesome idea, I like thinking about it, and I would do unspeakable, horrifying things to have well-written novelizations of BG that were based on this alternate universe approach rather than something that picks an arbitrary CHARNAME.
  • TyranusTyranus Member Posts: 268
    I voted for someone else.

    I think Bhaal's original plan would have came to fruition and he would have risen from the dead. If Bane was able to come back through Iyachtu Xvim, who was half-god, half-demon, so can Bhaal. Mellisan would have killed the other 5, and would have been destroyed when she absorbed his power. She's just some feeble mortal, at the end of the day. I still think this is what happens to if you take the evil path.

    Balthazar MAY have the strength (solo monks are awesome), but would have chosen to disperse the power. In which case, I think Jergal wouid have absorbed Bhaal's essence, which was his original plan we he gave up his portfolio to the Dead Three.
  • NecomancerNecomancer Member Posts: 622
    I have to be honest, the ending of BG1 with Sarevok's essense emptying into a symbol of Bhaal I got the impression Bhaal was using his children's death to gain power from the grave and slowly regain his godhood. I remember hoping that all his children but me would die and it'd be a big standoff where I am the only one left and all thats between Bhaal and godhood. He needs my life, my essensce, to complete his transformation. Now I have to defeat him before he kills me!

    ...Course, what actually happened was the Throne of Bhaal stuff, but a man can dream.
  • SplodSplod Member Posts: 114
    Come on... A dragon and a Bhaalspawn? Clear winner.
  • LuigirulesLuigirules Member Posts: 419
    Illasera has zero votes.

    What a chucklehead.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,268

    Illasera has zero votes.

    What a chucklehead.

    Illasera is just a big joke. I have no idea how she was chosen for the five. She doesn't even have their music.
  • MilesBeyondMilesBeyond Member Posts: 324
    Heh, you guys have obviously never played Ascension...

    (She's probably the most difficult of the Five there)
  • PhyraxPhyrax Member Posts: 198
    Imoen wins, no-one expected that she too would be a Bhaal-spawn, not even she herself! She outlives them all and then suddenly get's the Throne...
  • elementelement Member Posts: 833
    edited April 2013
    with out a need for an introductory boss fight Illasera finaly gets to reveal her master plan that ensures her place as bhaals succesor. Her apparent weakness was merely a ruse to fool all the other contenders into not considering her a threat.
  • SouthpawSouthpaw Member Posts: 2,026

    Sarevok can't win. While Melissan will be the final victor, Yaga-Shura will be the one that beats Sarevok.
    No one will tell Sarevok the secret how to kill Yaga, and obviously he is too dumb to find out :)

    If I remember correctly, Sarevok had intelligence of 18 or something similar.

    Anyway, Sarevok will win, because he is a suave bastard with style and power...
  • LuigirulesLuigirules Member Posts: 419
    Either Sarevok or Balthazar.

    Either way, bald wins.
  • KilivitzKilivitz Member Posts: 1,459
    Sarevok! He's got the strength, the wits and will.

    Plus, it makes your own journey so much more compelling, knowing that by stopping his plans you truly made a difference in the world.
  • DrugarDrugar Member Posts: 1,566
    Difficult.
    I picked Sarevok for three reasons;
    1) He's already high level, negating the requirement of much adventuring, which wouldn't happen with no threat forcing him to.
    2) He's good at making teams of strong individuals.
    3) He's intelligent enough to see through Mellisan and ruthless enough to stab her in the chest the moment she opens her stupid mouth.

    Balthazar and Mellissan were good contenders, both clever enough to know how to make Yaga-shura mortal once his usefulness had run out, strong enough to take down Sendai and Balthazar.

    But in the end, the one with the Load Game button wins.
  • OneAngryMushroomOneAngryMushroom Member Posts: 564
    edited April 2013
    Sarevok: Why. Other than the fact that he is incredibly powerful, smart, ambitious and, conniving.
    He would caused an insurrection in Saradush getting Gromnir killed.
    Illasera would have gotten chunked by a Death-bringer assault
    Yaga-Shura would have been killed in the exact same way as the CHARNAME kills him
    Sendai probably would have been assassinated by Angelo or one of Sarevok's minions
    Abazigal would have been the most difficult fight but I think Sarevok would have won because of dirty tricks.
    Balthazar would have died when Sarevok launched a full on siege Amkatheran using the soldiers that he convinced to join him from Yaga-Shuras Army
    Melissan much like Illasera would have been chunked on sight
    Imoen without CHARNAME to bring her on adventure would have died nameless in a Bhaalspawn purge
Sign In or Register to comment.