I still think the original BG characters are way more unique than a wimpy waifu anime elf, a brooding Final Fantasy elf and an STD on legs.
You're right, BG doesn't have wimpy anime elves
or brooding Final Fantasy elves
or STDs on legs at all.
Bravo, you've impressed us all with your factual and objective knowledge, and thanks to you, we fans of DA2 have seen the light and acknowledge that it's a horrible, horrible game. Your existence is hereby validated. Whatever will you do with all your free time now that the battle is over?
Your xan comparison is too much of a stretch, but for the other 2, fine. Congratulations, you have just named the two most annoying npcs in the the game, and drawn a direct comparison with them to DA2 npcs.
Apparently in your mind this proves DA2 is good?
At least in BG2, anomen was written to be intentionally obnoxious, and aerie was intentionally annoying. In DA2 we are supposed to think these characters are cool.
NeverI stated that my opinion is superior to anyone else's have but I get the feeling from both you and @Schneidende that you two are both pissed off because I happen to not like Dragon Age 2 as much as both of you and am not afraid of taking a step back and criticising it.
I still think the original BG characters are way more unique than a wimpy waifu anime elf, a brooding Final Fantasy elf and an STD on legs. Oh well, guess I'm old-fashioned. But better be old-fashioned and have some actual gaming standards and values than to be satisfied by every flashy toy EAware throws at me. We'll see how Inquisition turns out. I for one am still not one ounce interested in it, nor EAware in general.
This is you stating that your opinion is superior.
At least in BG2, anomen was written to be intentionally obnoxious, and aerie was intentionally annoying. In DA2 we are supposed to think these characters are cool.
Except that the game pokes fun at them and they take shots at themselves and each other all the time. At heart, the whole DA2 crew is a bunch of lovable dorks. Even Varric, arguably the smoothest operator of the bunch, is hopelessly in love with his crossbow.
Except that the game pokes fun at them and they take shots at themselves and each other all the time. At heart, the whole DA2 crew is a bunch of lovable dorks. Even Varric, arguably the smoothest operator of the bunch, is hopelessly in love with his crossbow.
I don't even know where to begin. With the fact that they are not or the fact that they shouldn't be even if they were
Those are two completely different arguments: if you're saying they're not lovable dorks, you mayhavemissedsomegamecontent.
If you're saying they shouldn't be lovable dorks... well, based on what? It was a design decision made by the developers, and certainly one that's consistent with BioWare's other games going all the way back to Edwina admiring her new breasts and Minsc's... well, just Minsc.
I liked the first DA, but found the DLCs uninteresting. I was bored halfway (I think) through DA 2 and dropped the game. I'll probably give DA 3 a try, but only if it's not more than $10 or so.
It was not the NPCs, or the story i disliked about DA2, really.
So far, things i didn't like don't seem to be in DA:I, although i'll have to wait to see that.
But seriously, for these things i trust what i can see for myself. So far what we see in the demo shown, is at least passable, potentially entertaining enough for me.
For DA2, i can say that the hit it received in sales numbers compared to DA:O (~3.8 million vs ~1.9 million), indicates that people didn't like something about it, something or things they probably liked in DA:O. In my opinion, it has everything to do with development cycle, december 2009-march 2011 (roughly 1 year and 3 months), is a laughable cycle really, for games like that.
@Mornmagor: I'll be the first to admit that in terms of gameplay, DA2 had some issues - mostly in terms of the recycling of environments. I mean, setting the entire game within a single city is fine in theory, the problem was that all the areas that were available in Act I became focal points in Acts II and III, so you kept returning to the same caves over and over again.
But in terms of story and characters? It's easily on par with BioWare's best efforts. And for me, that's more important than mechanical concerns.
I remember finding the whole intro of the game way too overdramatic. Also, that one girl getting flipped around like a doll by that ogre. I found it more comical than that I found it in any way frightful or unsettling. Also, those dialogues. It was like watching a soap opera like Storm of Love. Eugh. If people call that good writing, I don't know, but I certainly don't share their opinion.
@Kitteh_On_A_Cloud The intro of the game is initially overdramatic because Varric is embellishing. You'll note that you kill all darkspawn instantly with all of your attacks, and they usually explode gruesomely. Also, Bethany's breasts are significantly larger. Varric is intentionally making the story run of Rule of Cool to be a smartass.
If you're referring to the ENTIRE intro, well, it's dramatic because your entire village was just brutally wiped out, your family is running for their lives from an unstoppable monster horde, and you and your brother Carver recently witnessed the slaying of your king and the wholesale slaughter of a huge portion of your country's military. So, yeah, things are tense.
You...found the brutal killing of your sister by a huge monster comical? That seems very telling.
I'm often saddened by the discord and hate between fans of quality RPGs... I am certainly guilty of this myself, having little understanding for the people who fawn over CDProjekt, but I digress... There's room in uncle Nep's heart for Overhaul, Bioware, Obsidian and Eidos Montreal, certainly.
I even found a lot of things to appreciate about DA2, having played through it several times, as opposed to the tons of people who were given the opportunity to dismiss it by the demo...
I'm often saddened by the discord and hate between fans of quality RPGs... I am certainly guilty of this myself, having little understanding for the people who fawn over CDProjekt, but I digress... There's room in uncle Nep's heart for Overhaul, Bioware, Obsidian and Eidos Montreal, certainly.
I even found a lot of things to appreciate about DA2, having played through it several times, as opposed to the tons of people who were given the opportunity to dismiss it by the demo...
I honestly don't get it, either. Gamers in general are already a vitriolic, self-entitled bunch, but RPG fans manage to turn vitriol into some kind of bloodsport spectacle. Really, the only thing I oppose is the people who put forth their opinions as objective standards of quality.
i will not buy it and people would be wise to wait after some "neutral" reviews were done with the game. Last time they did so much wrong (imo) and who knows. I will not buy it because the complete design of the dragon age games is not my kind of stuff. So it´s just my own preference of what i like and what not based on my previous experiences.
DA3 will be a good game. itll be a good game because bioware knows they cant pass off shit again. they're still capable of making an excellent rpg, and the interest and success of kickstarter games, shows EA that the hardcore rpg gamer is still a valid, if smaller, market.
its still the company that did DAO and KOTOR....even with EA as the devil on the shoulder.
Not that i want to talk about EA/bioware but EA is not only on their shoulder it is in their own head too. So when they f... it up it´s biowares fault, not EA´s anymore. That would be honest i think.
Not that i want to talk about EA/bioware but EA is not only on their shoulder it is in their own head too. So when they f... it up it´s biowares fault, not EA´s anymore. That would be honest i think.
im not sure I agree. you may well be right, but these guys do this for a living. as long as bioware as producers and managers to keep the people on task and at ease, they should be fine... also, from what we saw in the 30min gameplay video, everything looks good. this may not be the case, but its enough for me to thing they are moving back to what has made them great. multiple races, classes, epic story, engaging characters
Hmm. I keep checking this thread hoping to find news about Dragon Age 3 and reactions to previews. Instead, there seem to be only a lot of people arguing about Dragon Age 2 and whether it was any good. Oh well. ::shrugs and leaves::
Hmm. I keep checking this thread hoping to find news about Dragon Age 3 and reactions to previews. Instead, there seem to be only a lot of people arguing about Dragon Age 2 and whether it was any good. Oh well. ::shrugs and leaves::
Unfortunately, that's what it often degenerates into, with DA2 fans having to try and explain something so fundamental as people liking different things than one another.
There's also just not really much info available. You can pick your race again, including qunari, and Morrigan's in it. That's about it.
least BG2, anomen was written to be intentionally obnoxious, and aerie was intentionally annoying. In DA2 we are supposed to think these characters are cool.
I don't believe that is the case, Bioware games gave always had NPCs that most people would find unlikeable, or at the very least not considered cool. Carth from KOTOR, Miranda from ME. I know Wynne irritated me in DA:O. In DA2 your NPCs drive a lot of plot points forward which generally translates to them being unreasonable about certain issues.
least BG2, anomen was written to be intentionally obnoxious, and aerie was intentionally annoying. In DA2 we are supposed to think these characters are cool.
I don't believe that is the case, Bioware games gave always had NPCs that most people would find unlikeable, or at the very least not considered cool. Carth from KOTOR, Miranda from ME. I know Wynne irritated me in DA:O. In DA2 your NPCs drive a lot of plot points forward which generally translates to them being unreasonable about certain issues.
i think miranda is a bad example. my friends who started on ME2 liked her, even though I didn't. Of course you can guess why... she certainly wasn't likeable for the right reasons though
least BG2, anomen was written to be intentionally obnoxious, and aerie was intentionally annoying. In DA2 we are supposed to think these characters are cool.
I don't believe that is the case, Bioware games gave always had NPCs that most people would find unlikeable, or at the very least not considered cool. Carth from KOTOR, Miranda from ME. I know Wynne irritated me in DA:O. In DA2 your NPCs drive a lot of plot points forward which generally translates to them being unreasonable about certain issues.
i think miranda is a bad example. my friends who started on ME2 liked her, even though I didn't. Of course you can guess why... she certainly wasn't likeable for the right reasons though
also I kinda liked wynne
I disagree. I thought she was plenty likeable as a character, for good reasons. She's intelligent, capable, driven, and dedicated to a good yet controversial cause. And I started from ME1, on release day, on Xbox.
least BG2, anomen was written to be intentionally obnoxious, and aerie was intentionally annoying. In DA2 we are supposed to think these characters are cool.
I don't believe that is the case, Bioware games gave always had NPCs that most people would find unlikeable, or at the very least not considered cool. Carth from KOTOR, Miranda from ME. I know Wynne irritated me in DA:O. In DA2 your NPCs drive a lot of plot points forward which generally translates to them being unreasonable about certain issues.
i think miranda is a bad example. my friends who started on ME2 liked her, even though I didn't. Of course you can guess why... she certainly wasn't likeable for the right reasons though
also I kinda liked wynne
I disagree. I thought she was plenty likeable as a character, for good reasons. She's intelligent, capable, driven, and dedicated to a good yet controversial cause. And I started from ME1, on release day, on Xbox.
I also like Wynne a lot.
well she wasn't likeable to my friends for the right reasons at least. and many other people on the social network. of course opinions are opinions and even the most hated of characters will have fans, and miranda still isn't the most hated. even the most liked will have haters in the same way, as I despised Liara even though she was at least top 3 alongside Tali and Garrus. i loved those 2 though
Oh, Miranda isn't the least popular squadmate by far, that honor goes to Jacob "The Priiiiize" Taylor. Which certainly tracks with the notion that all BioWare games tend to have at least one NPC who gets the short end of the stick and is near-universally disliked because of it: for BG it's either Cernd or Anomen, for DA it's Sebastian Vael, and so on.
But, you know, the presence of one annoying NPC is never a dealbreaker for me; Jacob was awful and I basically locked him in the Normandy armory for the entirety of ME2, but that game also introduced me to Mordin, Grunt, Kasumi and Legion - how could I hold a grudge?
Oh, Miranda isn't the least popular squadmate by far, that honor goes to Jacob "The Priiiiize" Taylor. Which certainly tracks with the notion that all BioWare games tend to have at least one NPC who gets the short end of the stick and is near-universally disliked because of it: for BG it's either Cernd or Anomen, for DA it's Sebastian Vael, and so on.
But, you know, the presence of one annoying NPC is never a dealbreaker for me; Jacob was awful and I basically locked him in the Normandy armory for the entirety of ME2, but that game also introduced me to Mordin, Grunt, Kasumi and Legion - how could I hold a grudge?
yes, that is why I admitted that Miranda isn't the most hated generally people hated the 2 for being cerberus, of course i know people on BSN who only like Miranda because "that ass" that bioware keeps shoving in everybody's face like it will make me like her. I think they failed with that one when I picked the faceless squadmate for all of my Shepard, rather watching the others on youtube (unless I am femshep then I go Garrus)
I think they are all supposed to be likeable though. I happen to notice my love for Patrick Weekes' work (Tali and Mordin). I also like what Mac Walters did with Garrus (maybe he should have stuck to writing characters). I don't know who did Miranda and Jacob. Of course they still have some fans though. Opinions are of course subjective, and even the most hated will have a fan.
Oh, Miranda isn't the least popular squadmate by far, that honor goes to Jacob "The Priiiiize" Taylor. Which certainly tracks with the notion that all BioWare games tend to have at least one NPC who gets the short end of the stick and is near-universally disliked because of it: for BG it's either Cernd or Anomen, for DA it's Sebastian Vael, and so on.
But, you know, the presence of one annoying NPC is never a dealbreaker for me; Jacob was awful and I basically locked him in the Normandy armory for the entirety of ME2, but that game also introduced me to Mordin, Grunt, Kasumi and Legion - how could I hold a grudge?
Jacob was cool with my main Shepard, because they were both regular guys that could just hang out. I can imagine the ME2 romance plus the events of running into Jacob in ME3 left a lot of FemShep players enraged, though.
I don't think you're quite right about Sebastian, though. He has a pretty strong fanbase, whereas there's like a total of four of us on these forums that might stick up for Anomen.
Comments
Congratulations, you have just named the two most annoying npcs in the the game, and drawn a direct comparison with them to DA2 npcs.
Apparently in your mind this proves DA2 is good?
At least in BG2, anomen was written to be intentionally obnoxious, and aerie was intentionally annoying.
In DA2 we are supposed to think these characters are cool.
She's awesome.
I don't even know where to begin.
With the fact that they are not or the fact that they shouldn't be even if they were
If you're saying they shouldn't be lovable dorks... well, based on what? It was a design decision made by the developers, and certainly one that's consistent with BioWare's other games going all the way back to Edwina admiring her new breasts and Minsc's... well, just Minsc.
But, why shouldn't they be lovable dorks? As shawne pointed out, the majority of Bioware NPCs pretty much are lovable dorks.
So far, things i didn't like don't seem to be in DA:I, although i'll have to wait to see that.
But seriously, for these things i trust what i can see for myself. So far what we see in the demo shown, is at least passable, potentially entertaining enough for me.
For DA2, i can say that the hit it received in sales numbers compared to DA:O (~3.8 million vs ~1.9 million), indicates that people didn't like something about it, something or things they probably liked in DA:O. In my opinion, it has everything to do with development cycle, december 2009-march 2011 (roughly 1 year and 3 months), is a laughable cycle really, for games like that.
But in terms of story and characters? It's easily on par with BioWare's best efforts. And for me, that's more important than mechanical concerns.
The intro of the game is initially overdramatic because Varric is embellishing. You'll note that you kill all darkspawn instantly with all of your attacks, and they usually explode gruesomely. Also, Bethany's breasts are significantly larger. Varric is intentionally making the story run of Rule of Cool to be a smartass.
If you're referring to the ENTIRE intro, well, it's dramatic because your entire village was just brutally wiped out, your family is running for their lives from an unstoppable monster horde, and you and your brother Carver recently witnessed the slaying of your king and the wholesale slaughter of a huge portion of your country's military. So, yeah, things are tense.
You...found the brutal killing of your sister by a huge monster comical? That seems very telling.
I even found a lot of things to appreciate about DA2, having played through it several times, as opposed to the tons of people who were given the opportunity to dismiss it by the demo...
its still the company that did DAO and KOTOR....even with EA as the devil on the shoulder.
also, from what we saw in the 30min gameplay video, everything looks good. this may not be the case, but its enough for me to thing they are moving back to what has made them great.
multiple races, classes, epic story, engaging characters
There's also just not really much info available. You can pick your race again, including qunari, and Morrigan's in it. That's about it.
also I kinda liked wynne
I also like Wynne a lot.
But, you know, the presence of one annoying NPC is never a dealbreaker for me; Jacob was awful and I basically locked him in the Normandy armory for the entirety of ME2, but that game also introduced me to Mordin, Grunt, Kasumi and Legion - how could I hold a grudge?
I think they are all supposed to be likeable though. I happen to notice my love for Patrick Weekes' work (Tali and Mordin). I also like what Mac Walters did with Garrus (maybe he should have stuck to writing characters). I don't know who did Miranda and Jacob. Of course they still have some fans though. Opinions are of course subjective, and even the most hated will have a fan.
I don't think you're quite right about Sebastian, though. He has a pretty strong fanbase, whereas there's like a total of four of us on these forums that might stick up for Anomen.