Ideas for wizard slayer.
Necomancer
Member Posts: 622
I keep seeing people say wizard slayer is weak...And they are absolutely right, so what changes would make it a more powerful class?
I had a few thoughts, such as a special ability that gives their attacks a dispelling effect once per every few levels.
Or buffing up their magic resistance. 1% per level is really not so great, even at higher levels. Certainly not worth the loss of all your magical trinkets.
Any thoughts out there to make this class something that isn't terrible?
I had a few thoughts, such as a special ability that gives their attacks a dispelling effect once per every few levels.
Or buffing up their magic resistance. 1% per level is really not so great, even at higher levels. Certainly not worth the loss of all your magical trinkets.
Any thoughts out there to make this class something that isn't terrible?
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But regardless, more magic resistance would make them more powerful quite easily... The spell failure effect is rather pointless as stated around the forums multiple times, that the moment a mage has a fighter hitting them they have bigger issues than potential spell failure.
http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?s=dab0b43c19c368d731912522cb56d288&showtopic=17358
magic resistance
miscast magic
dualclass into mage(probably the most op) and thief(not too bad with hla)
beastmaster is weak but not that much weaker than any ranger with clubs/quarterstaff
Here's my suggestion.
Magic Resistance. Excuse me, I meant to add MEANINGFUL before that. Starts at 20% and increases by 5% per level. 1% per level? Worthless.
Throwing flasks. Burn the wizards and witches with flasks of oil and fire!
Immunity to mind effecting spells such as fear and confusions, attainable at 5th level. Not unlike the monk ability.
+2 to all saving throws.
Do that, and I would consider it.
Even if PnP says so, a monk should never have more magic resistance than a WS of the same level.
v3.5's Occult Slayer gets a non-detection effect, that'd be neat if a Wizard Slayer were dualled into a Thief or became invisible by means of improved invisibility.
Note to self: Roll one of these bad boys up some day.
Otherwise~
-Buff the living...oh wait word filters out of the magic resistance. Ughseriously
-Give them some saving throw bonuses, even if versus spells only.
-Maybe extra damage against spellcasters... Like 1d4 from levels 1 - 4, 2d4 from levels 5 - 8, I don't know I think this might be a bit much but some form of extra damage would be the bee's knees. Or some mechanic that allows them to bypass spell protections or possibly dispel them on a successful hit?
-And possibly some sort of anti-magic zone HLA or something, or that spell deflection dealie @CaptRory suggested.
-Maybe for laffs give them some sort of damage reduction mechanic against magical weapons? Reduced effect of weapon special abilities on them due to intense training with magical weapons? I'm picturing a guy with a smoking bod screaming at Shar-Teel to hit him more while she's carrying, like, an ammo belt full of darts of stunning and Branwen's behind him with some curing spells on hand with a "what" look on her face and Jaheira and Khalid just don't know what to make of the scene and Imoen's like, "Told you guys you were better off staying at the Inn, dude's off his hinges.".
-Isn't there some sort of weirdness going on with the miscast magic stuff that it only affects spellcasters on a melee attack? I know Unfinished Business or the BG II Tweak Pack fixed that, but for it to be official would rule.
No really, I've been trying desperately to find out.
As near as I can tell, the Wizard Slayer kit was made up out of thin air.
It exists in PnP, yes, but as a Barbarian kit, and the only thing -- the only thing -- the two kits have in common is that they can't use magical items. Except the PnP kit can't use magical armor or weapons, either.
It is a truly extraordinarily weak kit. Even weaker than the BG2 Wizard Slayer. Here it is:
[spoiler]
Wizard Slayer
Description:
Wizard Slayers are obsessed with destroying practitioners of evil magic. They come from cultures where the practice of magic is reserved for an elite group of elders. The elders examine every baby born to the tribe, looking for omens. An unusual birthmark, a head of white hair, or a complete set of teeth may be interpreted as a sign that the gods have selected the baby to become a Wizard Slayer. The elders take the child from his mother and raise him as their own. Three concentric circles are tattooed on his forehead to indicate his status. When the child reaches maturity, the elders bathe him in magical oils and direct him to inhale the fumes of a sacred incense. These treatments provide him with special powers to detect evildoers and resist their magic. The elders then send him into the outworld to exterminate evil wizards and priests on the tribe's behalf.Requirements:
A Wizard Slayer must be of good alignment.Homeland Terrain:
Any.Role:
The Wizard Slayer has few interests aside from destroying evil magic. He cooperates with his companions as circumstances dictate, but he is always seeking evil practitioners of magic. His single-mindedness discourages friendship. He keeps his companions at arm's length and prefers solitude. Grim and brooding, he may go for days without saying a word, brightening only at the prospect of encountering one of his hated foes. Wary of all forms of outworld magic, he avoids associating with the magic-wielding members of his party unless forced by circumstance.Secondary Skills:
Butcher, Forester, Hunter.Weapon Proficiencies:
Required: Short bow.Non-weapon Proficiencies:
Recommended: Crude Weaponsmithing*, Danger Sense*, Endurance, Hunting, Light Sleeping*, Survival, Tracking, Weapon Improvisation*.Barred: All proficiencies from the shaman list (Table 31, Chapter 4).
Economic System:
Both simple barter and animal products barter.Wealth Options:
The Wizard Slayer begins with 3d4 gp worth of tradeable goods.Armor and Equipment:
He begins with hide armor, a small shield, and a leather quiver of 3d4 spirit arrows; gifts from his tribal elders. (See Chapter 5 for more about spirit arrows.)Special Benefits:
Protection from Evil: As a result of the treatments from his tribal elders, a Wizard Slayer radiates a Protection from Evil aura to a distance of one foot. The aura is constant and permanent; it otherwise acts exactly as the 1st-level priest spell of the same name.Know Alignment: A Wizard Slayer can use this ability at will by touching the targeted creature, character, or object. Casting times and spell components aren't necessary; the ability is otherwise similar to the 2nd-level priest spell. The creature is entitled to a saving throw to resist the ability.
Detect Illusion: A Wizard Slayer has a 5% chance per level of determining that a phenomenon with illusory, visual, auditory, or other sensory components is actually an illusion. This chance can't exceed 75%. He may use this ability twice per day, but only once per phenomenon.
Detect Magic: A Wizard Slayer has a 25% chance at 1st level of detecting magic; this ability increases by 5% per level, up to a maximum of 90%. The ability works at will, providing the Wizard Slayer does nothing but concentrate for a full round. He perceives the presence of magic as a dull throb in his head(dim, faint, moderate, strong, or overwhelming). He can't determine the sphere or type of magic; otherwise, this ability works as the 1st-level priest spell. If successful, the barbarian has a 50% chance to determine the general bent of the spellcaster who cast the spell (good or evil).
Attack Magical Creatures: A Wizard Slayer can strike at creatures normally immune to non-magical attacks. At 4th level, he can make attacks against creatures that normally can only be hit with a +1 or better weapon. At 6th level, he can attack creatures requiring a +2 weapon. At 8th level, he can attack creatures requiring a +3 weapon. At 10th level, he can attack +4-weapon creatures, and at 12th level he can attack +5-weapon creatures. This ability does not give the Wizard Slayer any special combat bonuses; he makes normal attack and damage rolls against these creatures.
Experience Point Bonus: If a Wizard Slayer destroys or disposes of a magical item, he earn 150% of its experience point value. For example, if he tosses a ring of shocking grasp into a crevasse, he earns 1,500 experience points instead of the normal 1,000. This benefit applies only to magical weapons of an evil alignment, or those created or wielded by an evil wizard or priest. In addition, for the experience point bonus to occur, he must make certain that no one else can easily recover the item, certainly not a member of his own party. Generally, items recovered by other PCs negate the experience point bonus. The barbarian earns twice the normal number of experience points for slaying an evil wizard or priest.
Special Hindrances:
No Magical Items: A Wizard Slayer can't use magical items of any kind. If the barbarian allows a wizard to cast a spell on him, he loses all special benefits for 24 hours or until an atonement spell absolves the violation.Combat Compulsion:
In combat situations, a Wizard Slayer must seek out an evil wizard or priest in preference to all other potential opponents. If the party encounters a horde of ogres and an evil priest, the Wizard Slayer directs his attacks against the priest. If the barbarian hears rumors of an evil wizard in a mountaintop castle, he feels compelled to track him down unless his companions convince him otherwise or forcibly restrain him. This compulsion doesn't necessarily interfere with his common sense or his responsibilities to his friends. If a companion dangling from a cliff calls for the Wizard Slayer's help, the barbarian will interrupt his attacks against an evil priest to rescue him, then resume his attacks when his companion is safe. [/spoiler]
I went through a great deal of searching to find even that.
So did the BG2 kit come from anything in PnP? We may never know.
That said, it's asinine that he can't get innate 100% magic resistance. It's even worse when you consider other classes/kits can get it from gear he can't use, monks easily so.
Secondly, his miscast magic debuff should apply on every hit, period. No protection should stop it. Not even illusions like Mirror Image -- he's not easily fooled. The reason being that Breaching these protections and hitting the caster with any old character is just as good as having miscast magic on them. His ability needs to have more value than that.
Also, it needs to work against the end bosses of BG2/TOB.
But I've sort of given up hope that they're going to do anything to balance the kits, despite having said before the game's launch that they would.
- Has +2 bonus to saves vs. spell.
- At 1st level can use Disruptive Strike once per day, and gains one extra use of this ability for every 4 levels thereafter.
- At 1st level can use Inner Focus once per day, and gains one extra use of this ability at 10th and 19th level.
- At 5th level, gains Detect Magic.
- At 10th level, gains Breaching Strike and Improved Inner Focus.
- At 11th level, the wizard slayer gains 10% resistance to magic. At 14th, and 17th level, this increases by an additional 5%.
- At 15 level, can use Resist Magic HLA once per day.
- At 19th level, gains Greater Inner Focus.
Disadvantages:
- Cannot wear medium or heavy armors, nor use large or medium shields.
- Cannot dual to mage classes.
DISRUPTIVE STRIKE: during the round when this ability is activated a successful melee or ranged hit on an arcane spellcaster imposes a non cumulative 50% spell failure penalty, which will last for the following 3 rounds.
INNER FOCUS: concentrating all his fortitude, agility and mental resistance, the wizard slayer is able to withstand, dodge or resist almost any type of magical threat. During the round when this ability is activated, the wizard slayer is immune to all spells of 4th level or lower.
DETECT MAGIC: a wizard slayer can innately perceive the presence of magic and determine that a phenomenon with illusory, visual, auditory, or other sensory components is actually an illusion.
BREACHING STRIKE: when using Disruptive Stike the wizard slayer is now able to break through the magical defenses of arcane spellcasters. Each successful hit removes one combat protection from his target.
IMPROVED INNER FOCUS: when using Inner Focus, the wizard slayer is now immune to all spells of 7th level or lower.
GREATER INNER FOCUS: when using Inner Focus, the wizard slayer is now immune to all spells up to 9th level ones.
Dagger & Axe Wielding Wizard Slayer 3/Thief
(I'll be playing with SCS installed with a custom MP party that refuses to use arcane magic.)
He's a dual-wielder. Early in the game he'll use Axes +1. As we know, with a Wizard Slayer each successful hit reduces the enemy mage's chance to cast by 10%. I look forward to seeing if this has any meaningful effect against SCS's mages.
I'll eventually have him dual-wielding the following two enchanted axes, which are allowed for the class, I believe:
- Bala's Axe (each successful hit causes Miscast Magic, i.e., 80% chance of spell failure)
- the new Golden Axe +1 (each successful hit brings 10% chance of casting Dispel Magic on target).
At Wizard Slayer 3/Thief 4 he'll have
Axe +++
Two Weapon Style +++
Dagger +
Single Weapon Style +
2.5 attacks per round dual-wielding
THAC0 main hand: 11
THAC0 main hand: 13
and backstab multiplier x3.
This character will launch attacks with the Dagger of Venom (single weapon). Then he'll follow up by switching to dual-wielded axes.
At Thief 8 I could put the last remaining weapons prof into either Dagger or Axe. By Thief 9 he'll end up with a backstab multiplier x4.
If all that exist, i would even accept that WS could be unnable to use any kind of magical item, but the way it is, the class surely sucks.
and it works for scsii mages! how do i know? i am testing 2 wizard slayers in my scsii tactics let's play test
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/18412/silent-lets-play-bg2-insane-tacticsscsii-mods-uploading-every-day
Actually, in the game where I'll be playing that WS/Thief I've decided it will not be with SCS after all. Because I have another game running which will probably take at least a couple more months to complete that I started without SCS. But it should still be great fun to see how the anti-arcane magic custom party led by that main character fares in a vanilla game.
now you finish with 80%, only 2% more than monk who achieves his top end sooner and can use a full range of items. the upside though is shorty WS and best of all dwarven WS. ridiculous saves + great MR makes him the best WS achievable
Here is an interesting thread where some posters try to show that Wizard Slayer is the best Fighter kit.
According to Gilad (quote):
1. The 10% spell failure stops every spell-like ability on everyone, and I mean EVERYONE!! This means that it'll get harder to rage if you meet a barbarian, set traps if you fight against thieves and most of all, it stops all kinds of enemies spellcasting. Neither Mellisan nor Irenicus is immune to this so it stops most of their effects totally as they WILL survive 10 blows. But remember this exception; spelltriggers and contingency spells WILL work no matter the hits.
But remember, it only gives you 99% no matter the hits and IIRC each blow works for one hour.
2. Yes, stoneskinned liches will get effected, so will improved mantled Lavok. No matter your protection, you will always be affected by this hazardous spell failure as long as you hit the enemy with the roll. This makes all these blows against a stoneskinned, fireshield protected mage actually useful.