thoughts on bioware today
ChildofBhaal599
Member Posts: 1,781
messed up on the last one, lets try this again. sorry, haven't made a poll before
baldur's gate gave bioware a fanbase, and i thought that i would ask this here because all of you seem the most "core" fans i can think of. bioware has changed over the years, and are now owned by ea. and today they have lost much of their fanbase to their 3 most recent games:
mass effect 3- ending (to end... like this?), romances destroyed (thane dead, jacob cheats on your), decisions not mattering (rachni show up even if killed in ME1), less rpg elements, multiplayer must be played to get the best ending (before extended cut dlc)
dragon age 2- change from tactical combat to a more hack and slash style, outright being lazy (one cave environment just got repeated and sections blocked off to make all of the caves, and some environment you just revisit too often)
swtor- didn't innovate from mmo's as they said it would, subscription based made many not even want to play
so, you long term bioware fans from baldur's gate. how is your image of bioware today. how have they changed you opinion since they created our beloved baldur's gate
also, please be civil. we all know the rules. i don't even care if you have a different opinion, i just thought that it is right that we can see what bioware's long time fans think.
baldur's gate gave bioware a fanbase, and i thought that i would ask this here because all of you seem the most "core" fans i can think of. bioware has changed over the years, and are now owned by ea. and today they have lost much of their fanbase to their 3 most recent games:
mass effect 3- ending (to end... like this?), romances destroyed (thane dead, jacob cheats on your), decisions not mattering (rachni show up even if killed in ME1), less rpg elements, multiplayer must be played to get the best ending (before extended cut dlc)
dragon age 2- change from tactical combat to a more hack and slash style, outright being lazy (one cave environment just got repeated and sections blocked off to make all of the caves, and some environment you just revisit too often)
swtor- didn't innovate from mmo's as they said it would, subscription based made many not even want to play
so, you long term bioware fans from baldur's gate. how is your image of bioware today. how have they changed you opinion since they created our beloved baldur's gate
also, please be civil. we all know the rules. i don't even care if you have a different opinion, i just thought that it is right that we can see what bioware's long time fans think.
- thoughts on bioware today79 votes
- i like bioware to this day7.59%
- i never really became a fan and followed there stuff. they are just another company who happened to make a game i like10.13%
- i think my hate is just because they are with ea. they can redeem themselves by leaving them12.66%
- one more mistake and i am gone. dragon age 3 better be good11.39%
- i left them with dragon age 217.72%
- i left them with mass effect 36.33%
- i left them before any of those 3 games5.06%
- i really dislike some of their new stuff (multiplayer being forced into games), but overall i still like them13.92%
- don't vote, see results15.19%
Post edited by ChildofBhaal599 on
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Comments
That said, ME3's endin was AWFUL and ruined the entire ME Trilogy for me.
seeing as da3 is using a human only protagonist, with voice and paraphrasing its not looking good to me i think itll be a 5£ purchase
Biggest example for this I think is DA2, with it's simplified, smooth systems, flashy animations, cartoony graphics. ME3 could have been better as well, although, I still really like that series. For me all the hate around the ending is a bit exaggerated, but I don't want to (and not going to) get into that argument here.
Greatest fail was arguably Star Wars: The Old Republic. I was really psyched about it, and really wanted it to work, but in the end, I had to agree with those who said that a KotOR 3 would have been better. (But one of the main problems there was also a hurried release...)
Not to mention EA's focus on the console market (which is again a more profitable sector)...
That said, could have done better without EA (at least, customer service would definetly have been better!
I couldn't bring myself to play Dragonage until a year after I bought it, and only because I was recovering from surgery. Once i got into it I REALLY enjoyed it. It's an incredible game. I bought DA2 but I never played more than an hour into the story because I wanted to continue with my old character, not use a new one. So I'm not really amped for DA3.
I have high praise for them, I always tell my friend's that they are the best when it comes to RPG games. I just wish they could have got involved with making Lord of the RIngs online instead of turbine. I love Middle Earth dearly, and long for the day when a MMORPG exists with THAT world and DnD rules.
As for future Bio releases, I will eye them with interest, but caution.
never will they ever satisfy everyone, but i think they would have done better if it were like baldur's gate's ending where we could know what happened to them after the adventure. i think most of us expected that. open ended just doesn't work too well in a game about consequences. i found the ending emotional, they hit that right. the music was perfect, and i actually downloaded that soundtrack it was so beautiful and well done. but i just wanted to feel like life went on for these characters, like we did with baldurs gate.
And really, they've been trying way way WAY to hard to be all grimdark lately.
Maaaaybe if they left EA there might be an improvement again, but I dunno... There seems to be this trend with them where the budgets for sequels to successful games still get cut and they're expected to do more with less and well, it doesn't really turn out. Plus I hate the habit of cutting out a chunk of the game and then releasing it as a 'Day One DLC' bleh.
Can't say I'll NEVER buy another Bioware game, but whereas I used to always pre-order their games cause the Bioware name carried a promise of awesome, now I'll probably wait and see... I miss the Bioware of old, I'm not going to dwell on where they ended up. I've moved on, I guess
Sorry it didn't seem like this many words in my head
I am hoping, and praying to all the gods that they sort it out for the next games. I seriously hope DA3 is good and they drop the button bashing crap.
BioWare for me was always about the STORY. I mean, they can seriously write a good RPG plot when they want to (DA:O, ME1). It just seems to be that they want so much to cater for a wider audience that they forget their roots. Ignoring and disregarding all of the fans that made them big in the first place.
After DA2 I picked up Oblivion for the first time. I'd avoided it up until that point due to the lack of story, but I truly enjoyed Fallout 3 and New Vegas. I think if things don't change with BioWare I will most likely move completely over to Bethesda - which makes me sad as some of BioWare's earliest work took me away from linear JRPG's and defined my entire gaming preference.
Oblivion is also a pretty good game and was actually my first rpg. After playing a game with an open world where I could do whatever I want I really didn't ever want a linear experience again. Playing one rpg redefined what a good game was to me.
Either way, that place shown me some nice integrity that BioWare had : strict rules, dictatorial even. But they were solid rules that didn't allow so-called "trolling". I won't even lie, I met my beloved second half on that site in 2009, after her question about Aec'letec if I am not mistaken, so that place changed me a great deal.
Then... around the end of 2009, BSN happened. And with that all good things fell "down down down, and the flames went higher", to quote Johnny.
I will be 100% honest, and that's one of those "bash you on the head with a mace" kinds of honests. That place had good people. Although they were outnumbered 1:1000 perhaps. That place, excuse me for the term, is a whorehouse. And BioWare, through those people, those BAD BAD people.... seemed to have undergone a retro evolution... retrovolution, retrolution, I have no idea. But yeah, it changed BioWare and its staff, at least the community relations staff.
2009, Dragon Age Origins was released - it was acclaimed.
2010, Mass Effect 2 was released - acclaimed, yes... but where's the RPG in it?
2011, Dragon Age 2 - oh dear.
2012, Mass Effect 3 - I haven't played it, I won't lie there. Hell, I haven't bought it either. But thank you Simcity, I got it for free XD
(notice how both ME2 and ME3 had their release dates postponed from the prior year because obviously, they didn't stand a chance in ranking among the other games released in 2009 and 2011 respectively)
So now the questions is... what is going on there BioWare? Is it the new-wave fans? Is it the EA influence? Both obviously. Casual audience is good for money, but not for the soul of the game - now I am a casual when it comes to most games, but please. RPGs - make them COMPLEX, hell, make them so tough that a virtual arm comes out of the monitor and punches you in the face. BUT NOT CASUAL!
So, dear BioWare, or BEAoWare... Where the video games?
I actually loved DA2. I liked the 'cartoony' graphics and OTT action. I didn't really think it was less tactical than DAO in reality: DAO was still largely a hack-and-slash, but the lack of the tactical camera made it seem that way. And I loved the characters, honestly I thought they were much better than 80% of the DAO cast. I also loved what they *tried* to do with the plot and the themes, I just think they failed rather spectacularly with it on so many levels, largely due to the product being blatantly rushed, but also because I'm not sure if the writers really know *how* to write a story that doesn't involve their typical protagonist power-fantasy about saving the world. Obsidian could have done it, I think, but Bioware has been stuck in that writing rut for a bit too long, I suspect. Finally, I thought the DLC was a massive step-up, which gives me hope for DA3, since I think the DLC for DAO suffered many of the issues DA2 had, and thus later DLC is probably fairly indicative of where a team is looking to focus its attentions on the next product. Thus I am hopeful for DA3, but I'm fairly convinced it will have Multiplayer functionality, and thus I'm waiting to see exactly *how* it will.
Which brings me to ME3. Now I like ME3, I loved ME3 until the last 10 minutes where it all went a bit stupid. I thought it had a lot of tension and drama and a story that was generally good until, well, the end. Not even necessarily the 'end of the end', but pretty much everything from the assault on Cronos Station and, especially, the retake Earth section. The combat in the game was also very repetitive, basically coming down to: Go Here, Hold Here, Go There, Hold There, Mission Complete. Very stop, start, stop, start. It was actually the same structure a lot of the ME2 DLC had, but it was refreshing then because for all its faults, ME2 actually had a fair bit of variety in its level flow (though they were almost all corridor shooters).
The multiplayer in ME3 was actually something I didn't mind. I only played it 'once', to get the trophy for 100% readiness (so I played a bunch of matches). Nonetheless, I thought it was integrated well into the story and that it was fairly unobtrusive. I dunno, I just thought that it fit as well as it could, and thus I wasn't too fussed about it. I wouldn't have missed it if it was gone, however. If they'd made 25% of all the achievements/trophies multiplayer, and put one in for getting to like 'N7 level 1000' I would have minded, because I like to get 100% in my games and multiplayer frequently prevents that (ergo I basically never buy MP games).
I like Bioware, but I think Obsidian is better in terms of narrative design and characterisation.
These people seem to care a lot less about the quality of the games they are playing. Bioware seem pretty unapologetic about how bad they have been, so I dont see them ever switching back. Most of the old staff seem to have left by now.
I do not blame EA for this. EA are surely to blame for some sucky stuff like enforced origin installation, and bi-yearly releases. But these aren't the only thing wrong with their games these days, and frankly the writing for the games, which used to be their strongest asset is looking increasingly tired and repetitive.
In summary, many studio's have gone from making good games to making sucky games over the years, but Bioware is the only one I know who has done it by CHOICE. Combine this with their insuffereable arrogance and attacks on thier own fans and they have pretty much earned my eternal scorn.
Thankfully, there's a few companies out there that do cater to my needs so I'll stick with them.
Nowhere near as bad as EA's Deadspace2 advert that used footage of horrified middle aged women to push their game.
(The rest of the video was quite funny, though).
It is, of course, EA who are to blame for the loss of quality. I suppose we should be thankful they didn't disband Bioware altogether. More than can be said for poor Westwood, among others.