I think the whole Jennifer Hepler thing got blown out of proportion. I actually felt really sorry for her when I read how she was shamelessly slandered for having said her opinion on something. Ok, what she said wasn't a very smart move, her being an employee of a gaming company and all, but I detested how people shamelessly cursed her and sent her hate mail. It was an overreaction of the highest degree. Hepler's still a writer, someone who has no influence on the gameplay of the games produced, so why can't she say she'd like to have a 'skip' button for fights in games? To be honest, I kinda felt the same way after the so maniest Darkspawn fight in the Deep Roads in Dragon Age: Origins. It became tedious after a while.
I think the whole Jennifer Hepler thing got blown out of proportion. I actually felt really sorry for her when I read how she was shamelessly slandered for having said her opinion on something. Ok, what she said wasn't a very smart move, her being an employee of a gaming company and all, but I detested how people shamelessly cursed her and sent her hate mail. It was an overreaction of the highest degree. Hepler's still a writer, someone who has no influence on the gameplay of the games produced, so why can't she say she'd like to have a 'skip' button for fights in games? To be honest, I kinda felt the same way after the so maniest Darkspawn fight in the Deep Roads in Dragon Age: Origins. It became tedious after a while.
oh yeah, i forgot about that whole ordeal. i guess i myself never really cared about it because it really wouldn't happen. it's not like we don't have an easy difficulty in all our games.
I wasn't sure where exactly to put myself on this poll. I believed the negative buzz, and never bought Dragon Age 2. I probably won't buy Dragon Age 3, unless I hear about some kind of spectacular turnaround.
The last Bioware game I bought and enjoyed was Dragon Age:Origins. In fact, I like that one enough that I just spent $30 to re-buy it on Steam, so I could have it in the cloud and not worry about the discs on future computers.
I wasn't sure where exactly to put myself on this poll. I believed the negative buzz, and never bought Dragon Age 2. I probably won't buy Dragon Age 3, unless I hear about some kind of spectacular turnaround.
The last Bioware game I bought and enjoyed was Dragon Age:Origins. In fact, I like that one enough that I just spent $30 to re-buy it on Steam, so I could have it in the cloud and not worry about the discs on future computers.
Half the reason I bought BG:EE and will be buying BG2:EE. My last two computers have fought me tooth and nail trying to get the originals to run properly.
@Cheesebelly my memory's pretty fuzzy, but I think she (a bioware employee) said something about how she thought it would be a good idea to include an option in games (I think specifically RPGs) that would allow you to skip combat, for those who just want to play for the story. Then the internet did what it does best and unleashed a torrent of hatred and vitriol at her.
If anyone has a good like link with more info it'd be welcome.
@Cheesebelly my memory's pretty fuzzy, but I think she (a bioware employee) said something about how she thought it would be a good idea to include an option in games (I think specifically RPGs) that would allow you to skip combat, for those who just want to play for the story. Then the internet did what it does best and unleashed a torrent of hatred and vitriol at her.
If anyone has a good like with more info it'd be welcome.
It sounds like u got it right from what I remember
That a stupid thing to start a flame war over. If that's how someone wants to play the game, let them. Nothing says you have to play it that way. Come to think of it, isn't there a feature like this in one of the Mass Effects?
@malicron well, mass effect 3 had narrative difficulty where it was almost impossible to die (unless something like a banshee instant kills) but they didn't go as far as she said as to almost make it a movie.
Thank u everyone who has answered. Looking at the votes at this point, it is different than I expected. Mass effect 3 seemed like the last straw to most, but the baldur's gate fans seem to think different and were gone with dragon age 2. I already expected many to choose the ea option as well, but it was a surprise to see how few actually stayed for me3.
It was nice to see what their core fans really thought. Thank u again all for helping me with my curiosity.
Bioware has created some of the most intelligent, well made and enjoyable games I've ever played but the past few years has seen their worst products. Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 2 + 3 were all about style over substance. Look at the character creation system for BG 2 or NWN and compare it to those games. There's such depth and complexity in the older games, where as the ones now are so simple and boring.
The fact that games such as DA 2 or ME 2 received high praise from the press has also caused me to reject the opinion of all, but a few publications.
It is possible that Bioware will pull themselves from the mire but it seems unlikely. Either EA will have them continue spewing out simplistic, dull games or they'll just shut them down when bloated expectations aren't met.
@Kitteh_On_A_Cloud I don't think it's a lack of inspiration, so much as trying to please everybody. Appeal to the masses gets you McDonald's (no insult intended) and Velveeta cheese (again, no insult intended).
@reedmilfam well said... but then again it's impossible to please everyone. BioWare used to be this game developer who appealed only to a very specific kind of people. Now it's just whoring for attention, sorry for the term. Well I for one am a bit too hipster for that I'm afraid... >.<
My stance is one of being disinterested more than disappointed for anything beyond DA:O. The thing is, over half of the discussions on the net about the direction Bioware has taken is about Mass Effect, and I haven't the slightest idea of how those games are like. I just don't like SciFi enough to play SciFi RPG's. I tried finding interest in the much-praised Knights of the Old Republic, but lost interest quickly. So, as most of the opinions are based on how ME1 to 3 developed, I haven't got a clue.
I got DA2, but haven't even finished DA:Origins yet (like BG, I like the game so much, I start new characters over and over who all are campaigning in parallel, taking a long time to get to the end), so I haven't even got an opinion on DA2.
@Son_of_Imoen Mass Effect was, to me, a fantastic journey. It went less RP and more action game as the series developed, which led to some of the criticism. How the bitter ending was written didn't appeal to everybody, but it was hardly the disaster that people seem to think it was - it just wasn't what people wanted.
I loved KOTOR and played it through more than almost any other RPG. Anyway, DA ][ went more action console game than RPG and, therefore, the trend is troubling (hence the vitriol regarding DA]I[. I really hope it is awesome (and hardly buy into the reasoning that they can't make an awesome game simply because they haven't recently). That's why I'm wait and see on this one.
@Son_of_Imoen Mass Effect was, to me, a fantastic journey. It went less RP and more action game as the series developed, which led to some of the criticism. How the bitter ending was written didn't appeal to everybody, but it was hardly the disaster that people seem to think it was - it just wasn't what people wanted.
I loved KOTOR and played it through more than almost any other RPG. Anyway, DA ][ went more action console game than RPG and, therefore, the trend is troubling (hence the vitriol regarding DA]I[. I really hope it is awesome (and hardly buy into the reasoning that they can't make an awesome game simply because they haven't recently). That's why I'm wait and see on this one.
yeah the ending would have been amazing if they put it into a movie or something in my opinion. it was emotional and sad, and the soundtrack i believe has been my favorite game soundtrack of all time. they did good with "an end, once and for all". the reason i didn't like it was because this is an rpg, with more to it than just providing an ending. we needed to see our choices come into play. i also kind of expected to have my hand held as they told me what happened to all my friends, how they are a different person because of what i've done. they wanted the ending to be much too open for an rpg about choice. it may work leaving it to the imagination if there weren't choices going through three games, but when there are choices you need to give us consequences.
Agreed. Even some ToB or Neverwinter Nights 2: Storm of Zehir style post-scripts would have been welcome, and easily implemented. That was my main complaint. I really didn't have a problem with there not being a happy ending. Sometimes, the best you can hope for is to make the decision that causes the least amount of damage. Frankly, I felt that fit a dark series like Mass Effect rather well.
Bioware is a shell of previous self. In its earlier days it took time to develop stories and game play that would captivate its audiences that for some reason (even though they have stronger financial backing) doesn't exist anymore.
To put things into perspective, Dragon Age: Origins was announced to be in development in 2004. It was not released until 5 years later in 2009. Five years to develop a game from scratch with a rich and compelling story and in depth mythos and cannon topped with over 60 hours of game play.
Dragon Age II was announced in July 2010 and released March 2011. Less than a year to develop a new engine, settings for that new engine and a epic and compelling story that fit the mythos of the first brilliantly developed game. For what it is, it is still an entertaining game for the time frame allotted for its release and I bet if you ask anyone who worked on the game, they'd tell you it wasn't a finished product of how they envisioned it. That said, it does not live up to the standards set by previous Bioware games.
I thought the company may redeem themselves with ME3 but with the ending and how they discarded the cannon from the first two irked me. I bought into the indoctrination theory and if any company could pull it off it would of been Bioware. I thought they'd release a DLC like ToB where it ties up all of your choices in the end, one final showdown with the reapers as you are pulled from the rubble having survived the indoctrination. Didn't happen. Once again great game but didn't live up to the standards of Bioware's previous games.
This now just makes me a little leery of any games they release in the future.
The Indoctrination theory is and will always stay a fan theory made up by people unwilling to believe Bioware just messed up and was forced to release a game in one year. EA probably wasn't aware that new games take longer to develop than Need for Speed and FIFA clones. Also, Bioware has stated it will not release any further ending content, which basically made the Indoctrination theory sink ship.
Yeah, to blame these sort of thing on EA is very convenient and very short sighted.
Even suppose it was true, and EA had imposed a strict deadline on the release of DA2, then when they released the game perhaps it should have been too short, or obviously unfinished, or full of bugs but AT LEAST HAD POTENTIAL. Or had a decent game and decent ideas underneath the surface which were never fully realised.
DA2 never had potential. They could have spent another 4 years on it, and when it was released, it would still have been a bad game. No patches modifications or expansions will ever change that.
Bioware's games have increasingly dumbed down gameplay, are increasingly less complex and rich, and have extremely tired writing. None of these things can be attributed to EA. EA may well have had a negative impact on biowares games but it would pale in comparison to the negative impact bioware had on themselves.
I used to buy every game BioWare made until DA2, I kinda missed the launch since DA1 was honestly kinda of a let down for me. From what I've heard and read didn't miss anything there. I've brought every other BW game though including SWTOR, and in future if they make good games I'll buy them. Definitely won't pre-order anything though.
EA destroys any good company they assimilate, that's all there is to it. Bioware is another great company that went in the toilet. Westwood Studios was another.
Back on track, prior to EA owning Bioware, they made a bad decision, IMO, not to make Kotor 3 but instead went with SWTOR. Fans wanted Kotor 3 but the money hungry powers that be wanted an MMO.
Even though DA is their last good game, they should have released it sooner. Its graphics were dated by the time it was released.
I didn't really mind DA:O's graphics. They might've been dated, I still thought they were realistic. Although the animations on body movements could use some improvement. They sometimes seemed a bit 'stiff'.
I don't think there's any question that BioWare's overall quality has declined somewhat since EA took over - and I say this as someone who loves DA2 for its story and characters, and who views the Citadel DLC and the MEHEM mod as having redeemed ME3. EA has a long-standing tradition of slowly and methodically destroying smaller companies and then failing to understand (let alone successfully use) their popular IPs... but it also seems to me that their increased visibility makes them more culpable and "vulnerable" to feedback. The Extended Cut wouldn't even exist if the uproar around ME3's ending hadn't been so unprecedented.
I'll be there for DA3 because it's within the realm of possibility that lessons have been learned from recent debacles, and because the writers responsible for ME3's ending aren't involved on any level. If it fails, or provides further evidence of a downward slide, I think that'll be the end of BioWare's credibility as a game developer.
I'd quit blaming Bioware if I were you and then point the finger squarely at EA. I've been in that situation; there was a black joke amongst some of us in that office in that we worked for four (!!!) different companies without ever lifting our ar$es from the chairs we're sitting on. Yes, takeovers.
Takeover #1: 'The company is not for sale under any circumstances'. Well, it wasn't. Unfortunately #1 was a publically-listed company with some of the best niche software in the business it was in, so once #2 had decided they were going to buy #1, it was a done deal whatever management had been saying in previous months. #2 renaged on just about every pre-takeover promise they made (just about as you'd expect) and what was a good team was not only slashed to ribbons by job cuts but also had its funding similarly slashed; consequently various software products recognised as the best in the industry started to stink (see the parallels yet)?
Takeover #2: Shall we say we weren't sorry? #3 also came in with huge promises of better funding (cue: looks of disdaining disbelief) but actually lived up to their promises. Products got better and we regained our market position. Then one area of the company started to fail to deliver and the fallout was felt everywhere. Our budget was cut again, more jobs were cut and we were expected to deliver the same quality of product with fewer resources. It couldn't happen.
Takeover #3: Well, I think the less said about #4, the better.
So, I apply my first-hand experience to Bioware. Yes, I agree that their quality has somewhat gone downhill since EA's takeover and some of it has to be down to reduced budgets. If one part of EA fails to deliver then all parts of EA are going to feel it. EA is a profit machine, no more and no less. EA has a portfolio of well-respected names that they are going to trade on as long as those names will draw profits. Don't make the mistake of equating Bioware now to Bioware pre-EA. Bioware now is just a marketing name. Pre-EA Bioware was a company that passionately believed in what it was doing and what it was delivering. Unfortunately it was publically-listed and way too good at what it was doing... see Takeover #1.
Comments
The last Bioware game I bought and enjoyed was Dragon Age:Origins. In fact, I like that one enough that I just spent $30 to re-buy it on Steam, so I could have it in the cloud and not worry about the discs on future computers.
If anyone has a good
likelink with more info it'd be welcome.It was nice to see what their core fans really thought. Thank u again all for helping me with my curiosity.
The fact that games such as DA 2 or ME 2 received high praise from the press has also caused me to reject the opinion of all, but a few publications.
It is possible that Bioware will pull themselves from the mire but it seems unlikely. Either EA will have them continue spewing out simplistic, dull games or they'll just shut them down when bloated expectations aren't met.
I got DA2, but haven't even finished DA:Origins yet (like BG, I like the game so much, I start new characters over and over who all are campaigning in parallel, taking a long time to get to the end), so I haven't even got an opinion on DA2.
I'm just a slow old fantasy fart I guess.
I loved KOTOR and played it through more than almost any other RPG. Anyway, DA ][ went more action console game than RPG and, therefore, the trend is troubling (hence the vitriol regarding DA]I[. I really hope it is awesome (and hardly buy into the reasoning that they can't make an awesome game simply because they haven't recently). That's why I'm wait and see on this one.
Agreed. Even some ToB or Neverwinter Nights 2: Storm of Zehir style post-scripts would have been welcome, and easily implemented. That was my main complaint. I really didn't have a problem with there not being a happy ending. Sometimes, the best you can hope for is to make the decision that causes the least amount of damage. Frankly, I felt that fit a dark series like Mass Effect rather well.
To put things into perspective, Dragon Age: Origins was announced to be in development in 2004. It was not released until 5 years later in 2009. Five years to develop a game from scratch with a rich and compelling story and in depth mythos and cannon topped with over 60 hours of game play.
Dragon Age II was announced in July 2010 and released March 2011. Less than a year to develop a new engine, settings for that new engine and a epic and compelling story that fit the mythos of the first brilliantly developed game. For what it is, it is still an entertaining game for the time frame allotted for its release and I bet if you ask anyone who worked on the game, they'd tell you it wasn't a finished product of how they envisioned it. That said, it does not live up to the standards set by previous Bioware games.
I thought the company may redeem themselves with ME3 but with the ending and how they discarded the cannon from the first two irked me. I bought into the indoctrination theory and if any company could pull it off it would of been Bioware. I thought they'd release a DLC like ToB where it ties up all of your choices in the end, one final showdown with the reapers as you are pulled from the rubble having survived the indoctrination. Didn't happen. Once again great game but didn't live up to the standards of Bioware's previous games.
This now just makes me a little leery of any games they release in the future.
Even suppose it was true, and EA had imposed a strict deadline on the release of DA2, then when they released the game perhaps it should have been too short, or obviously unfinished, or full of bugs but AT LEAST HAD POTENTIAL. Or had a decent game and decent ideas underneath the surface which were never fully realised.
DA2 never had potential. They could have spent another 4 years on it, and when it was released, it would still have been a bad game. No patches modifications or expansions will ever change that.
Bioware's games have increasingly dumbed down gameplay, are increasingly less complex and rich, and have extremely tired writing.
None of these things can be attributed to EA. EA may well have had a negative impact on biowares games but it would pale in comparison to the negative impact bioware had on themselves.
Back on track, prior to EA owning Bioware, they made a bad decision, IMO, not to make Kotor 3 but instead went with SWTOR. Fans wanted Kotor 3 but the money hungry powers that be wanted an MMO.
Even though DA is their last good game, they should have released it sooner. Its graphics were dated by the time it was released.
I'll be there for DA3 because it's within the realm of possibility that lessons have been learned from recent debacles, and because the writers responsible for ME3's ending aren't involved on any level. If it fails, or provides further evidence of a downward slide, I think that'll be the end of BioWare's credibility as a game developer.
Takeover #1: 'The company is not for sale under any circumstances'. Well, it wasn't. Unfortunately #1 was a publically-listed company with some of the best niche software in the business it was in, so once #2 had decided they were going to buy #1, it was a done deal whatever management had been saying in previous months. #2 renaged on just about every pre-takeover promise they made (just about as you'd expect) and what was a good team was not only slashed to ribbons by job cuts but also had its funding similarly slashed; consequently various software products recognised as the best in the industry started to stink (see the parallels yet)?
Takeover #2: Shall we say we weren't sorry? #3 also came in with huge promises of better funding (cue: looks of disdaining disbelief) but actually lived up to their promises. Products got better and we regained our market position. Then one area of the company started to fail to deliver and the fallout was felt everywhere. Our budget was cut again, more jobs were cut and we were expected to deliver the same quality of product with fewer resources. It couldn't happen.
Takeover #3: Well, I think the less said about #4, the better.
So, I apply my first-hand experience to Bioware. Yes, I agree that their quality has somewhat gone downhill since EA's takeover and some of it has to be down to reduced budgets. If one part of EA fails to deliver then all parts of EA are going to feel it. EA is a profit machine, no more and no less. EA has a portfolio of well-respected names that they are going to trade on as long as those names will draw profits. Don't make the mistake of equating Bioware now to Bioware pre-EA. Bioware now is just a marketing name. Pre-EA Bioware was a company that passionately believed in what it was doing and what it was delivering. Unfortunately it was publically-listed and way too good at what it was doing... see Takeover #1.
-Y-