As well, i'm not sure how I feel about multi as I don't like the idea of getting spell levels a whole lot slower then primary casters. In my first play though of bgII (incomplete, lost the save game) I really enjoyed hitting 17 in the underdark and getting them HLA and making the drow cry.
My take on dual classing, at least with low level duals, is that it's a bit of a hassle but once it's done it doesn't really slow you down as a primary caster all that much.
Maybe i'm wrong about this though i have pretty limited experience.
You can only backstab with "Thief Weapons". That is, weapons that thieves can gain proficiency in. And you can't do it at range, you need to sneak up behind someone and whack 'em. Not sure if you can backstab with magic summoned weapons though.
That's why I like the Swashbuckler Kit. You trade backstabs for being more like a fighter so you have more survivability, you're not suck in the middle of an enemy party after backstabbing one guy (and if you pass on those opportunities you're not using backstab anyway).
If you're only concerned about playing in BG1, dual class at level 7. Or multiclass. If you're building a guy for the whole series, dual class at level 10. Or just reload an old save and replay the rest of BG again as a pure thief. Hehehe
Since you're doing a whole saga run, I still heavily recommend a multi....I see no reason at all to purposely gimp yourself to what amounts to negligible benefit. (You get your first couple HLA at roughly the same level mages get their first 9th level slot, and the epic traps can easily replace 8th-9th level spells, until your level catches up, just requires a touch more planning).
Are you using a party at all or just duoing? In party situation I would see a point about slower progression, but in a duo, you'd still unlock 9th level casting long before spellhold, depending on how many side areas you hit first, and whether or not you scroll-spammed for xp.
Also, thieves gives more xp for locks/traps at higher levels, 6, 11 and 16 being the cut offs. Which combined with all the lock/trap xp and spell-learn spamming will vastly increase the xp that's coming in.
If memory serves you could hit 11 thief and still get full mage progression (7 is the highest in BG1 to still get your abilities back), so if you went to 11 to dual, you'd at least get the middle level utility xp bonus (the 16 bonus is roughly double).
I am annoyed by the Backstab immunity though, because it means the assassin is pretty much useless (their poison weapon is still pretty nice, but doesn't justify the penalty they suffer (In Pnp, the assassin gets poison use, and instead of an increased BS, their BS forces enemies to save or die at +3, with -1 per 4 levels of assassin, and is only penalized to 20 thief points, instead of 15 like in BG)...unless you solo, you won't get x7 BS before you start running heavily into enemies who are immune, and they pay so much because of it. (They were also supposed to get x8 in ToB...but then devs realized it would be useless and removed it last minute, still made it into the manual though). The reason being...backstab absolutely destroyed every boss in BG1, and they nerfed the hell out of it as a result (though some enemies are genuinely immune, demons, beholders, dragons, but the rest is just nerf-bat at work).
Comments
as thief/ilusionist you could hide in the shadows and FIREBALL !
as high level thief/ilusionist you can do crazy stuff like improved invisibility improved haste backstabing with 5x multi etc.
gnomes tho...
As well, i'm not sure how I feel about multi as I don't like the idea of getting spell levels a whole lot slower then primary casters. In my first play though of bgII (incomplete, lost the save game) I really enjoyed hitting 17 in the underdark and getting them HLA and making the drow cry.
My take on dual classing, at least with low level duals, is that it's a bit of a hassle but once it's done it doesn't really slow you down as a primary caster all that much.
Maybe i'm wrong about this though i have pretty limited experience.
Are lots of bosses immune to backstabbing?
also my other questions.
bg1 boss in 3 backstabs
bg2 soa boss in 1 heavy backstab
Just to reiterate, so I can put this thread to rest, can melfs or energy blades back stab or was I misinformed?
&
Once the duel class is achieved how far behind, if at all, will I be from a straight caster?
think ranged weapons can't backstab other than daggers but that would need a test
my "game life" example
i tried dual fighter5/thief in BG1 for "cool" strong backstab
what i have really done was half game fighter and half game of thief
i regained fighter levels 1 battles before final boss
That's why I like the Swashbuckler Kit. You trade backstabs for being more like a fighter so you have more survivability, you're not suck in the middle of an enemy party after backstabbing one guy (and if you pass on those opportunities you're not using backstab anyway).
If you're only concerned about playing in BG1, dual class at level 7. Or multiclass. If you're building a guy for the whole series, dual class at level 10. Or just reload an old save and replay the rest of BG again as a pure thief. Hehehe
that is why i suggested thief/ilusionist
no going behind for X amount of experience
steady leveling
but actually multi characters are the best universal characters
fighter/mage in both BG1/BG2 will be really powerfull
the same for fighter/cleric fighter/thief thief/mage
maybe not on the level of 21kensai/thief but still powerfull enough for vanilla and moded game
Are you using a party at all or just duoing? In party situation I would see a point about slower progression, but in a duo, you'd still unlock 9th level casting long before spellhold, depending on how many side areas you hit first, and whether or not you scroll-spammed for xp.
Also, thieves gives more xp for locks/traps at higher levels, 6, 11 and 16 being the cut offs. Which combined with all the lock/trap xp and spell-learn spamming will vastly increase the xp that's coming in.
If memory serves you could hit 11 thief and still get full mage progression (7 is the highest in BG1 to still get your abilities back), so if you went to 11 to dual, you'd at least get the middle level utility xp bonus (the 16 bonus is roughly double).
I am annoyed by the Backstab immunity though, because it means the assassin is pretty much useless (their poison weapon is still pretty nice, but doesn't justify the penalty they suffer (In Pnp, the assassin gets poison use, and instead of an increased BS, their BS forces enemies to save or die at +3, with -1 per 4 levels of assassin, and is only penalized to 20 thief points, instead of 15 like in BG)...unless you solo, you won't get x7 BS before you start running heavily into enemies who are immune, and they pay so much because of it. (They were also supposed to get x8 in ToB...but then devs realized it would be useless and removed it last minute, still made it into the manual though). The reason being...backstab absolutely destroyed every boss in BG1, and they nerfed the hell out of it as a result (though some enemies are genuinely immune, demons, beholders, dragons, but the rest is just nerf-bat at work).
Thanks for your help everyone and have a good day.
like plastic surgery!