Put my mind at ease
kylepacker
Member Posts: 11
Since I'm more of a lurker than a poster, I thought I'd seek as many answers as possible in one post. Here goes:
1) anyone else find the monks movement speed annoying? I find it really annoying that he flies ahead of everyone else and gets himself in trouble before the others can catch him up.
2) What, to you, is a balanced 6 person party? a party you can go through 1 and 2 with.
3) Fit a bard into a balanced 6 person party
4) Fit a monk into a balanced 6 person party
5) Are shapeshifters really BAD? I mean, they're bad compared to what NPC werewolves are like, but are they bad when looking at them without that?
6) Anyone else have trouble justifying a Paladin as part of a party that has characters that Aren't Lawful good?
7) What weapon types do you HAVE to have in your parties, other wise you feel left out?
8) Do you feel as if you have to have as many armour types as possible? (eg, do you feel bad if no one wears leather or studded in your game, or that not enough of your characters wear plate?)
Answer some, all or none - they're just things that have always got to me.
1) anyone else find the monks movement speed annoying? I find it really annoying that he flies ahead of everyone else and gets himself in trouble before the others can catch him up.
2) What, to you, is a balanced 6 person party? a party you can go through 1 and 2 with.
3) Fit a bard into a balanced 6 person party
4) Fit a monk into a balanced 6 person party
5) Are shapeshifters really BAD? I mean, they're bad compared to what NPC werewolves are like, but are they bad when looking at them without that?
6) Anyone else have trouble justifying a Paladin as part of a party that has characters that Aren't Lawful good?
7) What weapon types do you HAVE to have in your parties, other wise you feel left out?
8) Do you feel as if you have to have as many armour types as possible? (eg, do you feel bad if no one wears leather or studded in your game, or that not enough of your characters wear plate?)
Answer some, all or none - they're just things that have always got to me.
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Comments
For me a Balanced party needs 4 things, A fighter, thief, mage and cleric. The other two can be pretty much whatever.
Well, even without looking at what they don't get compared to normal werewolves, it's still a single class druid which's only advantage is pretty much getting access to level 5 spells while clerics would only get 4. (with a unmodded XP cap on BG1/EE)
I find hard trying to justify any of the normal Paladin kits, Blackguard is somewhat believable though.
Two Handed Sword and Flails are pretty much a must have.
2) IMO balance is overrated. Half the tactical and roleplaying fun and challenge of my later games came when I realized how fun it was to roll with a motley crew.
3) slap him in there and call it good :-)
4) ^ ditto
5) Yes, until a tweak pack gave shifters the werewolf stats they were supposed to have, then they are flea bitten goodness.
6) nope. I had allot of fun watching Edwin shoot off his mouth to Keldorn till the paladin reached his limit...oh the chunks!
7) I purposefully make classes that use the rarer artifactcs...the payoff is awesome when you finally get that sweet spear or halberd.
8) Don't worry about it. I am currently running through SOA-TOB with what I have billed as an oriental themed party with a monk, archer, the wushi-ninja (mod) thief class and an ooze-master from the (Excellent) Devine Remix mod...and of course Yoshimo.
Fulfilling my imagination and character precepts are more fun to me from a sheer role playing standpoint than trying to have all the bases covered.
3 & 4. See 2. Just bear in mind that when monks start out in BG1, they do peanuts for damage, except they couldn't hit the broad side of a barn on a natural roll of 20. They also have terrible AC and scant HP. It starts getting better around level 6 or so (if memory serves), and around level 8 or 9 they can enter melee without an inordinate amount of sucking and dying. After that it's a pretty steady climb into a very reliable and sturdy melee character. (in a nutshell, this means you are effectively playing with N - 1 party members and 1 (perhaps dart-throwing) sack of potatoes for much of BG1, but is rewarded for your patience during BG2.)
5. Shapeshifter is one of the more problematic kits. It's not entirely badly balanced for SoA (but perhaps a bit on the weak side), which means it's woefully inadequate for ToB and grossly overpowered for BG1 (perhaps BGEE has done something about this, I don't know).
6. I don't like paladins either. Sanctimonious, holier-than-thou prigs...
7. Most weapon types have something going for them, at some point or other (conditions change pretty sharply from BG1 to ToB). Clubs and spears are pretty awful throughout the series. Daggers are pretty much strictly inferior to everything. It's pretty hard to make a case for bastard swords; there are some good ones, but for the longest time your are pretty much stuck with generic +1 ones, at best. Good weapon types for BG1 include those which have +2 or +3 representatives, which include longswords, halberds, two-handed swords, scimitars, axes and perhaps a few more. Bonus points if the weapon has additional qualities (e.g., extra cold damage, or free action). Except possibly for longswords, the aforementioned weapon types also do very well in BG2.
8. This isn't really an issue, since unlike weapons, you can freely swap different types of armour in and out as the circumstances warrant. It's nice if characters wear the best armour for the occasion. That said, the best armour is usually one of studded leather, elven chain or full plate (it depends a bit on kit restrictions). For BG1, it is frequently/always better to wear non-magical armour, since that way you can wear an item of protection as well, which gives +1 to saves (valuable) in addition to the AC bonus (and there are two items which are +2).
For the same reason I don't bother using boots of speed when using a 6 player party.
2. I tend to go with the classic Fighter/Fighter/Thief/Cleric/Mage/Mage. Two frontliners intercept the melee enemies (with the Cleric joining in if necessary) while the thief either backstabs or uses bows, and the mages cast spells from the rear.
3. Given that the bard is primarily a support character, you can swap one in for one of the mages.
4. Assuming the monk's leveled up to the point of viability, you can use them instead of one of the Fighters.
5. Given that the Shapechange spell allows mages to assume incredibly powerful forms like Mindflayers and Iron Golems, I don't really see a necessity for Shapeshifters.
6. Not really: even the most uncompromising Paladin can justify his actions by saying those non-LG characters are serving the greater good (and, if you have Evil party members, Paladins can see their roles as "jailors" of a sort, keeping a short leash on dangerous people).
7. I like to have two different kinds of Fighters in my party, so - for example - one will specialize in Two-Handed Swords while the other will have Longsword/Shield or Axe/Shield.
8. Not really, no: it all comes down to utility (ie: what will keep them safest). The only characters that have to wear leather-types are thieves, but even then, mine was wearing the +4 Shadow Armor by the end of BG:EE...
2. I like having at least one warrior, one divine caster, one arcane caster, and one thief. The other two are gravy, but I usually go for a second warrior plus a Bard.
3. As above.
4. In BG2 and up, the Monk makes a good secondary warrior. In BG1, a Monk is there to kite enemies and occasionally sucker punch people.
5. They're not great, but they're not unplayable.
6. Nope. Paladins aren't as inflexible as you might think. Any Good-aligned character is fine, the average Paladin would just shake their head at the lack of concern for laws and societal stability NG and CG characters will often exhibit. Neutral characters' lack of concern for anybody but themselves, their friends, and close relations will irritate a Paladin, but they're probably fine. If the situation is dire, a Paladin could bgrudgingly work with a competent Evil character or two. Just being able to Detect Evil, however, doesn't mean a Paladin goes on a murder spree when people glow red.
7. If possible, my CHARNAME almost always uses two-handed swords. I almost always have somebody ready to use daggers and flails.
8. As long as there's enough plate mail to go around, I'm good.
1) Not at all, just control it, besides monks in BG should go ranged until they can stand to hit something in melee, with a ranged weapon they don't close against enemies alone normally.
2) Didn't understood what you meant by 6 balanced party. In NPC terms? That's based on your tastes and your main char. In class terms?
1 arcane spell caster (Edwin/Xzar/Dynaheir/Neera/Xan/Imoen dualed);
1 divine spell caster (Yeslick, Brawen, Faldorn, Jaheira, Quayle, Viconia, Tiax, Dualed Xzar);
1 thief (Imoen, Coran, Skie, Safana, Montaron, Tiax, Dualed Shar-teel, Dualed Brawnen);
1 High HP or/and AC or/and good Thac0 (but medium HP at least) character/tanker (Ajantis, yeslick, minsc, Kivan, kagain, Shar-Teel, Dorn).
The rest can be what you want. This is a balanced party, that doesn't meant that only balanced parties can be played in BG.
3) Eldoth and skie fit in many parties if you endure the time to get Skie or have heart to kick and old party member. Garrick sucks, so stay away from him if possible. A main char Bard can be pretty awesome, don't you doubt it, and could fit properly in any balanced party.
4) a monk at low levels is meant to be played at the back, ranged. Unless you import a character from Black Pits with a gloves of crushing (or until Rasaad get the gloves from his quest) monks are going to be a bit weak during all BG. Take in heart that monks become the most powerful class at BG2, any monk lvl 13+ is already deadly, 18/19+ is a tool of destruction with no equal.
Ps: if you import a gloves of crushing from Black pits (or CLUAConsole/EE keeper it) know that your monk will be too powerful to BG:EE and the game can become a bit boring (if you start to hack anything in your patch).
5) They are, never liked them and i only take Cernd in BG2 for roleplay prupose and to play variation of NPCs there.
6) No, paladins aren't always fanatics that doesn't allow no breach on strict rightful patches, they only behave this way with themselfs and their own acts (or at least they should). Keldorn in BG2 is a nice example of paladin, and he get along pretty well with Korgan (too much i think), who is an chaotic evil dwarf mercenary fighter).
7) get at someone that can hit something (mages and low lvl cleric and thiefs doesn't count) to have access to 1 blunt and 1 slash/pierce weapon. If someone appear to be full armored, go with blunt, if light armored, go with slash/pierce or blunt (witchever give more damage or hit best).
2 Handed Sword and short sword are the only+3 weapon (non-cursed) in BG:EE.
8) Here's my answer
2,3,4: To be "balanced" A group needs a front-liner/Tank, a Thief/dungeoneer, an arcane caster, and a divine caster. The other two slots are flexible. Most people like to double up on Tanks and arcane casters, some people like an extra thief for backstabbing, some people like to use characters that can fill multiple roles. Bards and Monks don't have one role they fit perfectly, but they can both work quite well in a group that has the other jobs filled.
5: Shapeshifters are generally considered one of the weakest kits, along with Wizard slayers and beastmasters.
6: It depends on the Paladin. For a Charname, you can justify whatever you want. Maybe you are trying to redeem them, or you accept their company as a trial to your devotion. With Keldorn and Ajantis though, it is a bit harder to justify, especially as they both will eventually come to blows with several of the evil characters.
7: It's always good to have certain weapons (BG: Longswords, Bows, Warhammer, Mace, Two handed Sword; BG2: Flail, Two handed Sword, Scimitar), but as long as you have a good sampling you should be fine.
8: Armor is not as critical to spread variety. Basically, by about halfway through the game, your fighters and clerics will be in plate or full plate, your mages will have robes of the archmagi, and your thief will have some magical leather or studded leather.
5) They aren't, it's just that majority of people doesn't get the point behind them. Shapeshifters are Druids who cannot wear any armors, but then again have animal forms that are actually useful. And that's something unusual in Baldur's Gate series. They are not meant to be a party tank or main meele damage-dealers. They're just a support. Need a summons or healing? Normal form. Your fighters needs some support? Here comes the werevolf.
6) Nope. Paladins works fine with neutral good and chaotic good characters. I think that even working with neutral characters is fine. In theory, Paladins could even try to redeem evil characters, but let's stay realistic. That's just an gamers' excuse (while playing Paladins) to recruit Viconia.
7) I have no such a thing. Eventually Longswords in BG1, but only in BG1. I don't miss them at all in BG2, if none of my fighters is skilled with them.
8) My characters are always wearing the best armors avaliable to them, so no.
These questions are always things that mentally 'block' me from expanding my horizons with experimenting. Literally, my parties in BG (I always custom party nowadays) end up consisting of:
Some sort of fighter depending on the stronghold I want in 2
Beserker (usually a dwarf)
Ranger-Cleric Dual (Dual in BG 2)
Druid
Thief (usually swashbuckler) - mage dual (at level 6)
Sorceror
...and that's it,. Almost always that (barring the odd one change or so)
I WANT to see if a monk and a barbarian will work well as my fighters, and I WANT to get a bard in there, but I always end up going this way - I also always believe that I HAVE to have enough blunt weapons so I don't get caught short vs golems. It's crazy!
Personally though, chainmail on a human avatar looks cool. Plate usually looks lame-o.
Always have someone use flails, staves and two handed swords in bg2. Long swords aren't hot in bg2, but some goodies exist. The elemental axes are nice.
2. Cleric/buffer, thief, meat shield, ranged/scouter, arcane spell caster, damage dealer
3. Bards are your flavour. Instead of a ranged weapon user, put in a bard and you have a secondary everything except thief.
4. monk can fill the range scouter position nicely.
5. I think they get a bad knock because of Cernd. I still want to play through the BP with 5 shapeshifters named after the D'arnise hold dogs.
6. Nope. If you really want to RP it, just choose people one alignment shift off from a base (usually the leader of the party). With paladins you're base can either be LG, LN, NG.
7. Flail
8. Nope. Whatever gives me the best AC (including with rings/amulets) is what I wear.
It's tolerable~ Well, to me.
2) What, to you, is a balanced 6 person party? a party you can go through 1 and 2 with.
Fighter or Paladin
Thief
Cleric or Druid
Cleric/Fighter, Druid/Fighter, or Cleric/Thief
Another Fighter, or a Fighter/Magic-User
Magic-User -- preferably a Sorcerer
3) Fit a bard into a balanced 6 person party
Gap-filler!
4) Fit a monk into a balanced 6 person party
Replace a damage dealer with one.
5) Are shapeshifters really BAD? I mean, they're bad compared to what NPC werewolves are like, but are they bad when looking at them without that?
idk lol
6) Anyone else have trouble justifying a Paladin as part of a party that has characters that Aren't Lawful good?
Nope! I like to think of the Paladin as wanting to rehabilitate the evil ones, and so on.
7) What weapon types do you HAVE to have in your parties, other wise you feel left out?
A mace.
8) Do you feel as if you have to have as many armour types as possible? (eg, do you feel bad if no one wears leather or studded in your game, or that not enough of your characters wear plate?)
Nope!
Kensai->Mage, Fighter->Thief, Berserker->Cleric is a great core for your team. Add three more members according to taste.
2. A balanced party needs the minimum of 3 things. Tank figure, thief and cleric. Alternatively a mage instead of thief. Although one of each archetype is better. More often than not I want 2 melee, 2 ranged, 1 mage, 1 cleric.
3. Bards are there to fill the gap, when you've already got 5 and wonder what to do with the last one..
4. No, monks are crap
5. Shapeshifters are alright. They're not the powerhouse a fighter/cleric is, nor the murderous grandmaster dualwielding fighter with longswords.. But they blend in quite nicely and are a nice addition to any party.
6. No. Paladins are generally bound to a very strict code of honour etc etc. But a Bhaalchild is certainly an exception to most things. Although I can't see any paladin doing the thief guild quests etc.
Even so, you can easily rp to be a Grey Guard. (Paladin prestige class, allows a much greater freedom, they fight as dirty and brutaly as the blackguard, but as vigorously and with as much zeal as a paladin.
They are also "allowed" to do quite bad things, if they can justify as a means to an end, without losing the churchs or deity's favor)
7. I try to spread out weapon proficiencies as much as I can.. I rarely have a problem using all weapons, but i guess i very rarely use spears, halberds, daggers, crossbows.. I find it almost difficult to have a full party and not use weapons like greatswords, longswords, flail etc..
8. Armor is not something i care much about, concerning npcs. But I very often find myself concidering the pros and cons of plate/leather/robe and the hassle of carrying multiple sets of armor around, if i am playing a multiclassed character.
2. A balanced party needs: A pure spellcaster, a pure cleric, a multiclassed thief (Straight thieves suck), then at least 2 fighter classes, rest whatever. I don't really like dual classed characters.
3. Bards fit in anything, they're not too bad, it's like a special type of fighter mage... I still think a straight up fighter mage is better however, more spells, more combat proficiency... Blades are a great alternative as offensive spin is solid early on, but other than blades I'm not very impressed with blades, especially since fighter mages get whirlwind attack later on plus better tach0.
4. Monks can have the fighter spot in my #2 answer, they're devastatingly strong lategame. Immune to everything, highest amount of attack per round, best weapon damage (1-20 damage vs a 2h +6 wep that does 7-16... Rounds up to be pretty close, but you get the 1-20 damage much earlier than you get +6 2handers, and chances are your monk will be more resiliant than your plate wearing 2hander fighter)
5.Never used shapeshifters, but they don't really look good... guess shapeshifting is the druid's fighting alternative.
7. Flails for the flail of ages, longswords as they are the most common/powerful item, dual wield preferably. I can't see myself not wear crom Faeyr on someone.
8. The better armor the better, I don't care much for other armor types.
2-Have two fighters , two clerics , a thief and a mage.
3-Bards work as a second mage who can use good ranged weapons. Have them memorize disabling spells and use wands . Besides, their great lore really helps .
4- Only if they've got high atributes . Have them hide in shadows and stun opponents.
5- I'm not sure, never played one.
6- When I play one, there are things I don't do because my character is LG, such as thief quests . Neutral and good allies are acceptable , but a paladin would never have someone with evil intentions in the party for long.
7- Somebody has got to use a bow, a two handed sword, a long sword and clerics must know how to use a hammer .
8- Sometimes none of my characters wear plate! A party of rangers and rogues would likely wear only leather armor.