@Borsook If @CamDawg / @Ascension64 / @Wisp can confirm that the undispellable flag for magically created weapons from ToBEX has been integrated in BG:EE, the dispellable creature weapons problem is gone.
Well let's hope once this whole legal dispute is over with and the devs return to their work on BG:EE and SoA:EE that we'll see some 'improvements' to the whole shapeshifting side of the game just so you aren't stuck with a pair 1D6 piercing damage 2+ claws from start to finish.
Would love to see a somewhat similar progression like the monk has which I can't imagine would be too troublesome with some Q&A sessions of course (doesn't have to be HUGE changes just a few :P).
PS: Wouldn't it make more sense if it were slashing and not piercing damage? I mean you're more likely to slash someone to slices with a set of nasty claws rather to actually pierce their guts out? or is it just me who've watched too much "Dogsoldiers" ?
I have been reading about the issues with the shapeshifter kit in general both in BG:EE and SoA, I've been trying to figure out a way to look at the regular werewolf form as in the actual files/code/etc because as far I understand it regular werewolf claws aren't supposed to count as +1 or +2 or anything meaning they wouldn't be able to hit creatures which you can only harm if you have some sort of magical weapon HOWEVER; I've been able to kill the vampire wolves outside the temple near Beregost with the regular werewolf form and as far I know vampire wolves cannot be harmed unless struck by magic weapons/spells, also most of the time I manage to score 10-12 damage non-crit so essentially I've been trying to figure out how they actually work in BG:EE since there are so many people on the net saying different things about the shapeshifter that I merely wish to have a look for myself in the actual file/code in the game.
At 19 strength he gets +7 to damage. If he is indeed doing 1d6 rolls than its not unheard of to be doing 10-12 damage.
So is it me or is the shapeshifter incredible powerful if not even 'OP' in BG:EE since you're able to shapeshift into your werewolf form with 1D6 piercing 2+ claws along with the 7+ damage modifier (not to forget mentioning the 20 magic resistance)?
I mean that's usually what you end up with in the last bits of BG:EE (items, tomes & potions) so perhaps not in the 'late game' of BG:EE but sure is more than capable of steam-rolling through the early bits of BG:EE! :S
So is it me or is the shapeshifter incredible powerful if not even 'OP' in BG:EE since you're able to shapeshift into your werewolf form with 1D6 piercing 2+ claws along with the 7+ damage modifier (not to forget mentioning the 20 magic resistance)?
I mean that's usually what you end up with in the last bits of BG:EE (items, tomes & potions) so perhaps not in the 'late game' of BG:EE but sure is more than capable of steam-rolling through the early bits of BG:EE! :S
Maybe but the cost of that is less health as a warrior of the same level (a warrior could have up to 17 health/level at level 1, whereas a shapeshifter in form would have 9), a comparable amount of damage depending upon the weapon a fighter is choosing and their strength, a comparable amount of thac0 depending on what the warrior's strength is. The biggest benefit the Shapeshifter has is the extra 1/2 attack per round as well as a slight boost to AC (but the AC is not all that different from a fighter with 18 dexterity in scale mail and using a shield). Magic resistance is nice but there aren't that many enemies in BGEE at the beginning for it to be useful against (Tarnesh and Bassilus).
Well, I was thinking about starting a new thread, but this seems like as good of a place as any to post some findings. I did a little testing and found two oddities with shapeshifting. First is armor. Base AC of any armor gets overwritten, which we already knew, but the armor mods stick with you (I.e. the +2 vs piercing for leather armor). Avengers are much better off striping before shifting. Second thing is what happens when you have two hand weapons equipped. They become a single hand weapon but you retain +1 attack with no off hand penalty. Example, a shapeshifter with 2 daggers equipped and a pip in single weapon style will end up with 3 attacks, criting on 19-20, and -1 AC while in werewolf form.
Well, I was thinking about starting a new thread, but this seems like as good of a place as any to post some findings. I did a little testing and found two oddities with shapeshifting. First is armor. Base AC of any armor gets overwritten, which we already knew, but the armor mods stick with you (I.e. the +2 vs piercing for leather armor). Avengers are much better off striping before shifting. Second thing is what happens when you have two hand weapons equipped. They become a single hand weapon but you retain +1 attack with no off hand penalty. Example, a shapeshifter with 2 daggers equipped and a pip in single weapon style will end up with 3 attacks, criting on 19-20, and -1 AC while in werewolf form.
I didn't know about the armour problem while playing an avenger, but I did discover that obtaining a proficiency in single weapon style and equipping one's off hand did have these benefits while shape-changed (additional attack, critical hits on 19-20, and -1 AC).
Could anyone confirm please whether the Shapeshifter kit has been fixed or modified in any way in patch 1.2? Or it still has the same bugs as in vanilla BG2?
I'm thinking about starting a new game with a shapeshifter and just wanna know if it's playable at its current state.
Could anyone confirm please whether the Shapeshifter kit has been fixed or modified in any way in patch 1.2? Or it still has the same bugs as in vanilla BG2?
I'm thinking about starting a new game with a shapeshifter and just wanna know if it's playable at its current state.
I subscribe this question, also.
Atm i'm using BGII Tweaks on BG:EE with weimer changes on shapeshifter, what mean any shapeshifter druid i make in BG:EE will be totally in godlike mod. I don't want/like godlike mod.
What i really would appreciate is:
1° - An table with the actual functions of shapeshifter werewolf in BG:EE and BG2:EE.
2° - An progressive enhancement per level (specially in claw magic value, cos even +3 to the late ToB isn't good and immunity to normal weapons in lvl 1 isn't funny).
I'm interested in thoughts in this too. Shapeshifter is one of my favourite classes but his wolf form is somewhat of a disappointing compromise at times.
I've never been too interested in a Shapeshifter myself, and I'll admit, a large part of the reason for that is because the mechanics seem to be such a persistent mess. It gets more attention than any other mechanical trouble in the game, and that makes it a bit daunting to try.
I hate hate hate the SCS/BG2Tweaks so-called "fix" for shapeshifters. (And honestly I hate that they have the gall to simply call the component "improved shapeshifting" rather than something more informative like "vastly different and absurdly powerful shapeshifting.")
My mod re-thinks the shapeshifter from the ground up. At level 1 they can shapeshift into a simple pure wolf form. Better in melee than a druid, perhaps comparable to a level 1 fighter, but not at all godlike. This progresses at about level 3 to a dire wolf form. Around level 6 or 7 they get a proper werewolf form. Around level 12 that gets upgraded to a greater werewolf form. And at epic levels, they can select an ability to transform into a powerful greater wolfwere.
The forms are *not* designed to mimic the enemy werewolves you fight in the game. Rather, they are simply meant to work well and be fun at the stage of the game when you get the ability.
EDIT - alternatively, you could try out my newer mod, which makes more extensive changes to all druids. Normal druids all get at-will shapeshifting as well as the ability to summon a spirit animal; the old lycanthropic shapeshifter kit is changed into the 'Beast Mystic' which gains power from man's untamed animalistic nature. Instead of the early wolf shapeshift, they can cast Beast Claw at will.
@subtledoctor, nice work, but isn't werewolf and wolfwere 2 separated lines of evolution? werewolf is the animalization of humans while wolfwere is the humanization of wolfs. Am i wrong?
I like the idea of starting as the standard wolf! Perhaps push the werewolf back a step and add in the vampiric wolf? It'd let you make them really powerful while still giving an interesting summoning form.
Comments
They do. Both Shapeshifter forms receive BRBRP for their weapon. (Which I agree is ridiculous.)
If @CamDawg / @Ascension64 / @Wisp can confirm that the undispellable flag for magically created weapons from ToBEX has been integrated in BG:EE, the dispellable creature weapons problem is gone.
10th
Would love to see a somewhat similar progression like the monk has which I can't imagine would be too troublesome with some Q&A sessions of course (doesn't have to be HUGE changes just a few :P).
PS: Wouldn't it make more sense if it were slashing and not piercing damage? I mean you're more likely to slash someone to slices with a set of nasty claws rather to actually pierce their guts out? or is it just me who've watched too much "Dogsoldiers" ?
So is it me or is the shapeshifter incredible powerful if not even 'OP' in BG:EE since you're able to shapeshift into your werewolf form with 1D6 piercing 2+ claws along with the 7+ damage modifier (not to forget mentioning the 20 magic resistance)?
I mean that's usually what you end up with in the last bits of BG:EE (items, tomes & potions) so perhaps not in the 'late game' of BG:EE but sure is more than capable of steam-rolling through the early bits of BG:EE! :S
fast strong and resistant
It made being a sword spider rather enjoyable!
that is some funny stuff
I'm thinking about starting a new game with a shapeshifter and just wanna know if it's playable at its current state.
Atm i'm using BGII Tweaks on BG:EE with weimer changes on shapeshifter, what mean any shapeshifter druid i make in BG:EE will be totally in godlike mod. I don't want/like godlike mod.
What i really would appreciate is:
1° - An table with the actual functions of shapeshifter werewolf in BG:EE and BG2:EE.
2° - An progressive enhancement per level (specially in claw magic value, cos even +3 to the late ToB isn't good and immunity to normal weapons in lvl 1 isn't funny).