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Faiths and Powers: Gods of the Realms (Kitpack and divine caster/spell tweaks)

GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 1,986
edited September 8 in General Modding

Faiths and Powers



Please note that this is a public beta release, and we are actively working on this project. Please feel free to offer suggestions or to point out bugs.

A quick and useful guide to kits and spheres

Special thanks to @ineth for this

Special: Shadow Monsters, Shades and transform to human fixes (for versions 0.74e and earlier) Install as a regular mod after fnp.

Download

Attached Hotfixes for earlier versions (install after fnp):
- Versions 0.74e and earlier: fix for Shadow Monsters and Shades: use the attached file titled "fnp_spells_3.zip"
- Version 0.74h: use the file titled "fnp74_use_hotfix.zip"

Most recent update: 0.74m
Please note that this is a public beta release. We are actively working on this project. Please feel free to offer suggestions or to point out bugs.

2017-08-26
Version 0.74j

- priest of Umberlee abilities and usability
- multiclass kit usability (e.g. C/M of Baervan and druid/mage)
- mystic warrior abilities


2017-08-14
Version 0.74g

- fixes Contingency spells. Sort of. Mostly.
- changes to spellbinder


2017-08-13
Version 0.74f

- added conjure water elemental to water sphere
- fixed shades and shadow monsters
- fixed mystic warrior
- improves the cross-mod compatibility stuff.


2017-08-10

Version 0.74b

- Fixed an error with an errant "/"

2017-08-09

Version 0.74

This is v0.74. I bumped the version number because there are a few meaningful changes:

- Added 6 Mystic Warrior kits (fighter/druid versions of the Mystics). These are lightly-armored and limited to weaker weapons - dagger, short sword, club, staff, sling etc. - but they pack the elemental power and resistances of the Mystic kits.

- Scout kits (Stalker, Archer, Slinger, Mage Hunter, Barbarian Ranger) should be able to be any alignment and should not fall. (EDIT - darn, I hope this doesn't mess up IWDEE... need to double-check.)

- DISABLED DUAL-CLASSING to cleric or ranger. Yeah, I did that. Be warned. BUT...

- Added an .ini file with two settings: one to enable dual-classing, and one to prevent minor-access spells being moved to a higher level.

- This .ini file, unlike most mods', should be compatible with BWS. You can copy the file, make whatever changes you want, and drop it into your override folder before installing any mods. That should preserve your preferences, while keeping the original version in the mod folder unchanged (I know BWS freaks out about files sizes and whatnot). This is experimental, and I don't have Windows, so I don't have BWS and can't experiment. Players, let me know if/how it works.

2017-08-08

Version 073b
- All spells are granted at 1st level, instead of spells from different levels being granted at different level-ups.
- Sphere access is independent of the spell table; so this is compatible with any mods that alter spell tables.
- Minor access now means the opposite of what focus access means: minor-access spells are shifted one level higher. So Cure Light Wounds becomes a 2nd-level spell, Holy Smite becomes 4th-level, etc. Minor access is still limited to 3rd-level spells (which become 4th-level spells.)
- Paladins and Rangers get full access to spheres just like clerics; you will see 7th-level spells in your spellbook but will be unable to cast them. This means that, equally, the sphere system is now compatible with any kind of changes you make to paladin and ranger spell tables. FnP will supply our tables for these classes, but feel free to overwrite them with any other mods, like Tweaks Anthology. To paraphrase Apple, it will 'Just Work.'
- Theoretically, this means that we can now give focus access and minor access to paladins and rangers, to accentuate certain spheres. I haven't done it in this build, but this could be yet another nice little way to differentiate kits.
- If you only want the sphere system and not any new kits, trueclass kits now get their proper spells. (This fixes a bug in v0.72b.)
- Fewer sphere spells are required to be created in the background to make all this work: 69 spells instead of 322. Other small efficiency improvements have been made. Hopefully this leads to slightly quicker install times.



2017-08-06 Version 0.72

-diff install options for BG(2)EE/IWDEE

2017-08-02 Version 0.71b

- Fixed issue with option 2

2017-08-01 version 0.71a

Fixed installation issue with option 1

-2017-07-31 version 0.71


Lots of fixes:

-fixes for spells
-fixes for HLAs
-two new spheres: Exploration and Perdition
-variables for custom weapon use for kits
-cleaned up a ton of code everywhere
-updated compatibility packet for other mods

2017-06-03 Version 0.64a

Minor changes to sphere access

2017-06-03 Version 0.64

-Fixed cleric of Kelevmor death ward and neg plane protection
-Fixed doom special ability for for Beshaba Acolytes (and better implemented the ability)
-Added misfire reference to spell in for Beshaba Acolyte description
-Fixed icons in misfire spell/special ability for Beshaba Acolytes
-Plant focus sphere no longer adds summon water elemental rather than assassin vines as a level 5 spell...
-Grammar issues: Champions
-Grammar issues: Zealots
-Zealot of Ilmater: Correctly added frenzy in 2da
-Acolytes: Added bonus spells (and lore bonuses in a few cases)
-Changed Beshaba's spheres around. Focus: Dread.
-Removed override references to COMPILE lines

2017-03-13
Version 0.63b
- NPC cleric kits
- Fixed bug re acolyte of mystra
- Bug fixes re: kit adding code
- Fixed deity dialog issue with mc clerics


2017-02-27
Version 0.61a
- Added a valid marker for IWDEE divine spells

If you already have version 0.61 installed, just drop the itm file in the attached zip in your override folder.

Version 0.61

- Removed references to SoD in engine check
- Added Clangeddin cleric
- Added a draft of Baravar (but not added in the game via tp2 or otherwise)
- Removed backup folder
- Please forgive the formatting of the readme on github. I'll have to learn about .md files, but for now see the attached pdf. It is important to note that the readme is outdated. The goals are the same, but the details (e.g. what spells are in what sphere) have been changed.

Known Issues:
- Water and fire elemental scripts need to be looked at
- Shout spell doesn't seem to work
- Summoning shadow monsters crashes the game
- Doomguide cleric Turn level issue
- b_frz00.spl is referenced in at least three .2da files present in my override folder (B_ZE00.2DA, B_ZEALOT.2DA and clabpa04.2da (original non-special frenzy)
- At 11th level the Ur-Priest received Shadow Step as a special ability
- Elemental sphere descriptions are all over the place (only for custom spells)
- Disrupt Undead says that it's part of the death sphere (but it's part of the life sphere)
- Many multi class kits missing
- prayer and rec spells

Faiths and Powers: Gods of the Realms

This purpose of this thread is to announce a mod created by @subtledoctor and myself which will increase the number of options for cleric and divine classes. This thread will also host discussion about specific implementation and (in time) be the place to download the actual mod.

The first few posts will contain the most up-to-date information about the mod itself.

Goals

This mod has a few goals:

-To allow all cleric characters (as well as others) to select a god, and have that selection translate into meaningful, flavorful, abilities and disadvantages for their character.

-Related, to allow for different orders within a given church hierarchy to have their own unique, and flavorful abilities.

-To expand the number of selections to an indefinite (as now) number of deities (my personal hope is to include all of the Gods and orders of Faerun, if possible)

-To expand role-play options based on these selections (a very long term goal)

Features


With these goals in mind, the plan (already in motion) is to include the following:

- A sphere system. This is not identical to pnp, at least partially because keeping too close to pnp leaves players with few spells in some cases, or leaves cleric characters without spells that allow them to do what is generally expected of them (as seen in DR).

- "Real" kits. Initial Kits will not be deity specific. Rather, deity selection will occur in a dialog format. This selection will alter their kit in various ways depending on the deity selected. So, you might select a "Champion" kit at character creation. But champion of who? Well, for that you have to select your deity. Many of these 'sub-kits' will have unique name. For example, if you created a Champion, and selected Tempus, your title will be "Gloryblood of Tempus". Deity selection will be limited by race, kit, and alignment (and occasionally, stats). So, for example, your Chaotic Evil, Cha 4, Champion will not be able to select Sune. But, at the same time, alignments will be expanded as they make sense for each deity. For example, you do not necessarily have to be evil to select Talos as your patron. Maybe you are more unstable than evil, and would like your chaotic neutral priest to worship Talos (rather than Helm(?)). This will be possible (and, chaotic neutral Helmites will not be possible.)

- Altered quests and dialog depending on deity selection. This is a very, very long term goal, and will not be included in the initial release, but the idea is that clerics of various deities will react differently to (eg) the events in the cleric stronghold as well as the events leading up to the stronghold. Your Chaotic Neutral Stormbringer of Talos will not join another church. Also, expect Glorybloods to take the fighter stronghold rather than work for some stuffy Helmites.

In this post we will describe the various kits and class changes. In the following posts, domains, and deities will be described.

(Note that all abilities are in flux. As the specifics change, these posts will be updated. Please, please, feel free to give suggestions and (constructive) criticism!)



-
Compatibility

See attached document: "FnP_kit_compatibility (1).zip"


Special Thanks:

Please welcome @IchigoRXC who has graciously offered to help us with icons, and possibly other animations.

Overhaul, Bioware, Black Isle, Atari, Wizards of the Coast: Mods aren't possible without the games.

Avenger: DLTCEP is essential.
http://gibberlings3.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=23917

Argent77: As is Near Infinity.


The keepers of IESDP: Again, essential.

http://gibberlings3.net/iesdp/index.htm


Weimer, the Bigg, and Wisp - and anyone else involved with Weidu, or the various tutorials. Again, essential.

http://weidu.org/WeiDU/README-WeiDU.html

Playtesters:
@iavasechui, @Aedan, @ineth, @Kalanyr, and @Brer_Rabbit on these forums, and @agb1, @roxanne, @buli and @ALIENquake over at G3 @Arizael @wyakpa .

Feedback and bug hunting:

@Necromanx2 , @Woolie_Wool , @wyakpa , @rrchristensen , @CrimsonBard , @helo138 , @Zaghoul , @Arunsun , @Rangeltoft , @Alwayssnarky , @LupusSolus


(From a quick scan of recent postings. Let me know if I have missed your contribution!)

Extra special thanks to @ineth for being so helpful!

Another big thanks to @ineth for help with the readme!

Gibberlings3: A very friendly group of modders. These guys are always helpful with any issues:

http://gibberlings3.net/forums/index.php?showforum=16

Avenger and Wisp: For the atweaks mod. I have learned so much from that lovely mod.

http://www.shsforums.net/topic/38261-atweaks-v442-released/

Camdawg: For all of his helpful tutorials and advice, as well as his Divine Remix mod, which has been very inspirational:

http://gibberlings3.net/forums/index.php?showforum=29

Aquadrizzt: I've learned a lot from this guy. Also check out tnb:

https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/31274/mod-beta-tome-and-blood-more-options-for-wizards-and-sorcerers/p1

Subtledoctor: Is it appropriate to thank a co-author? Ahh, he deserves it! Check out his mod Scales of Balance:

https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/33657/scales-of-balance-post-hac-kits-and-tweaks/p1

Mordeus and Requiem: Their Faiths of Faerun mod has been very inspirational:

https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/17118/mod-faiths-of-faerun-kitpack-v0-5c-ready-for-testing/p1

Special thanks to Kjeron for some timely help with code for the sphere system

CrevsDaak: For his lovely tutorial found here:

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/34119/how-to-making-kit-mods-for-the-ee/p1

( also, feedback and insightful advice/suggestions, etc.)

kjeron: That one is just overflowing with modding advice and information. I can't count how many times their advice has helped me

Wolpak: Very knowledgeable fellow. Learned a lot from him.

Elminster The formatting in this post wouldn't be possible without his beautiful post re: The frosty Journey. Also, check out the mod:

https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/36181/a-frosty-journey-the-iwdee-kitpack/p1

Smeagolheart : I have learned a lot from his mods, especially

https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/18629/mod-kit-tomes/p1

Kamigoroshi, bob_veng, vallmyr, Cahir, Mozziah: Helpful Suggestions

Red_Carnelian for graciously providing bam creation resources:

https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/42011/blazing-bams

Anybody else I am forgettingI'm sure I'm forgetting a few. Will update as my memory improves :P
Post edited by Grammarsalad on
BlackravenKamigoroshiAedanIllustairJuliusBorisovbob_vengFoggyT2avAbelDark_AnsemCheesebellyelminsterYgramulAbdel_AdrianBboy2073CrevsDaakinethGarvin77
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Comments

  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 1,986
    edited February 2016
    Here, you will find the deity templates as well as any new spells.
    Deities

    Ilmater, the Crying God

    Available Kits: Cleric, Priest, Incarnate, Others(?)
    Favored Weapon: Club (Heh, should be unarmed).
    Spheres:
    Major Access: (6: perfect average)
    - Divine Aid
    - Life
    - Protection
    - Knowledge
    - Vigor
    - Light
    Minor Access: (5, for a total of 11 spheres-low average)
    - Magic
    - War
    - Charm
    - Death
    - Fire
    Special Abilities:
    - 1st: Ilmater's Endurance: +4 to saves vs. death/poison, Resist fire/cold 20%
    - 1st: Remove Fear 1/day.
    - 1st: Resist fire/cold 20%
    - 3rd: Can cast Draw Upon Holy might 1/day (+1/day per 4 levels to a max of 5 at level 19)
    - 5th: Can cast Endurance of Ilmater 1/day: Doubles the hp of a touched creature, and +2 to all of their saves. Lasts 1 turn.
    - 12th: Can cast spirit of Ilmater 1/day: Target: Self. 80% resistance to physical attacks, +20% to resist all elemental attacks, and purges any poisons or diseases. Lasts 1 min/level (max 20 minutes at level 20)


    Lovitar, the Lady of Pain

    Available Kits: Cleric, Priest, Incarnate, Others(?)
    Favored Weapon: Flail (It would be a whip, but those aren't available in the game).
    Spheres:
    Major Access: (7: slightly above average)
    - Divine Aid
    - Life
    - Protection
    - Charm
    - Dread
    - Affliction
    - Vigor
    Minor Access: (4, for a total of 11 spheres-low average, but minor access to both exclusive spheres)
    - Death
    - Knowledge
    - Deception
    - Magic
    Special Abilities: (I think that pain touch is very good)
    - 1st: Pain Touch: At will, touch attack. Target must save vs. death -2 or see their dex/thac0 reduced by 4, and suffer 1 point of non-lethal damage/2 rounds. Lasts 10 rounds

    - 1st: Instrument of Pain: All spells that cause pain impose a -2 to their saves when cast by a servant of Lovitar. - TO DO

    - 5th: Lovitar's Caress: 1/day +10 Thac0 with melee attacks, +2 dam/lev (max +20 at 10th). Should stack with Pain Touch. Lasts 4 rounds.




    New and Altered Spells by Domain

    Destruction:

    Smite - Done
    (Conjuration)
    Level: 1
    Sphere: Destruction
    Range: Self
    Duration: 1 round/level (max 5)
    Casting Time: 1
    Saving Throw: None
    This spell imbues the caster with pure destructive energy against the caster's enemies. melee attacks inflict an additional 2d6 points of crushing damage for 1 round per level (max 5 rounds at level 5).


    Shatter - Done
    (Transmutation)
    Level: 2
    Sphere: Destruction
    Range: 25'
    Duration: Instant
    Casting Time: 9
    Area of Effect: One Creature
    Saving Throw: Polymorph 1/2

    When the priest cast's this spell, creates a vibrating pulse that increases in intensity in a nearby creature or object that is especially destructive against inorganic, solid constructs like doors and golems. The first round, a living or undead creature takes 2d6 crushing damage unless they save vs. polymorph (in which case, they take half damage and the spell ends). Every round that they do not save, they suffer the amount of damage that they received in the last round, plus an additional 2d6 points of damage for a maximum of 4 rounds. Any round that they do save, they suffer 1/2 damage and the spell ends. The spell ends after 3 rounds.

    When cast on a door or locked container, it undermines the integrity of the object destroying all but the most sturdy or magically protected locks. Against constructs such as golems, and elementals it does double damage, and they cannot save to avoid its effects.


    Shout - Done
    (Invocation)

    Level: 4
    Sphere: Destruction
    Range: 0
    Duration: Instant
    Casting Time: 1
    Area of Effect: 35-ft. cone with 15-deg. arc
    Saving Throw: Special

    Shout grants the priest tremendous vocal powers, allowing to emit an earsplitting roar from mouth in a cone-shaped area of effect. Any creature within this area is deafened for 9 rounds and suffers 4d6 points of magic damage. A successful Save vs. Spell negates the deafness and reduces the damage by half.


    Wrath - TO DO
    (Conjuration)

    Level: 5
    Sphere: Destruction
    Range: 30' radius around caster
    Duration: Special
    Casting Time: 3
    Area of Effect: 30-ft. radius
    Saving Throw: Special
    This spell unleashes pure destructive energy against all enemies within 30' of the caster. Any creatures within the area of effect take 9d6 magic damage, +1d6 per level of the caster, up to a maximum of 15d6 at level 15; a successful save vs. polymorph halves the damage. In addition, if a medium sized or smaller creature fails their save, they are knocked prone and back 10' away from the caster.


    Affliction:

    Waves of Agony - Done
    (Necromancy)
    Level: 5
    Sphere: Affliction
    Range: 35 feet
    Duration: Special, maximum of 3 rounds
    Casting Time: 5
    Area of Effect: One Creature
    Saving Throw: Poison/Death -5 see below

    When the priest casts this spell, points to a single creature within 35 feet. That creature is wracked with pain and must make a save vs death at -5 or be unable to move or act for a full round and they will take 2 points of non-lethal damage per level of the priest (max 30 at level 15). If he saves, he takes half damage and shakes off the spell.
    In the second round, any creature that failed their save must save again or be paralyzed for another round and take the same amount of damage as they took in round one. If they save, they take half damage and shake off the spell.
    In the third round, any creature that has failed both of their previous saves must save again or remain paralyzed for another round and take the same amount of damage again. A creature that makes a successful save will take half damage and is no longer paralyzed.
    The spell ends after three rounds and does not have any affect against creatures that cannot feel pain like golems or undead.


    Plant:

    Nature's Wrath - Done
    (Alteration)

    Level: 6
    Sphere: Plant
    Range: Self
    Duration: 1 Turn
    Casting Time: 6
    Area of Effect: The caster

    With this spell, the priest draws on the power of nature to transform self into a terrible plant-like creature known as a Shambling Mound.

    body becomes incredibly resistant to damage. AC is set at 0, and is 50% resistant to all physical damage. also becomes completely immune to fire and electricity, and only suffers half damage from cold. Additionally, regenerates 6 hit points per round.

    Additionally, is infused with the raw power of nature, gaining a strength of 20, and can make two unarmed attacks per round inflicting 2d8 (+8 from strength) damage, and those struck must make a save vs. breath or be entangled for two rounds.

    These unarmed attacks count as +3 weapons.

    The wrath of nature will not be restrained. The priest is protected by freedom of action while transformed.

    loses the ability to cast spells while transformed.


    Spores - Done

    Level: HLA(?)
    Use myconid spore animation.


    Animal:

    Animal Eyes - TO DO
    (Alteration)

    Level: 1
    Sphere: Animal
    Range: One Animal
    Duration: 1 Turn
    Casting Time: 6
    Area of Effect: The caster

    When the caster completes this spell and touches an allied animal, gains the ability to see through that animal's eyes allowing to see everything that that animal sees.


    Conjure Critter - TO DO
    (The spell is completed as a wizard spell; need to transfer it to a cleric spell)
    Level: 1
    Sphere: Animal
    Range: 0
    Duration: 1 Turn
    Area of Effect: The caster
    Saving Throw: None

    This cantrip conjures a medium to small rodent in the location of the caster's choosing. These critters can distract enemies, and do some light scouting:
    Rabbits: Stealth 40 Luck: +2
    Squirrel: Stealth 60
    Rat: Stealth 40 Bite 1 dam
    All:
    Hit Point: 1


    Earth:

    Stone Fist - Done
    (Alteration)

    Level: 3
    Sphere: Elemental (Earth)
    Range: Self
    Duration: 1 Turn
    Casting Time: 3
    Area of Effect: The caster

    When the caster completes this spell, hands become blocks of stone. can make melee attacks with these hands inflicting 2d8 points of damage plus strength. In addition, is infused with the power of the earth, and strength is increased by 2 for the duration of the spell.


    Water:

    Conjure Water Elemental -Partially Done (BG2EE/EET only). TO DO: CWE for BGT (check that it has the right animation)
    Level: 6
    School: Conjuration
    Sphere: Elemental (Water)
    Range: Medium
    Duration: 1 turn + 1 round/level
    Casting Time: 1 round
    Area of Effect: Special
    Saving Throw: None

    Upon casting a Conjure Water Elemental spell, the caster opens a special gate to the Elemental Plane of Water, and a water elemental is summoned to the vicinity of the spellcaster. Normally, an elemental with 12 hit dice will be conjured. At fifteenth level and above, however, the caster will be able to summon an elemental with 16 hit dice. The elemental will do the bidding of the caster until it is slain or the duration of the spell runs out. All of the commands given to the elemental are done so telepathically, so there is no time lost due to miscommunication, and it is not necessary to know the language of the summoned creature.

    Water Elemental (12 Hit Dice):
    STR 21, DEX 9, CON 9, INT 9, WIS 9, CHA 9; AL Neutral
    HP 128, AC 2, THAC0 7, Saving Throws 4/6/5/4/7
    2 Attacks Per Round, 4d6+9 Blunt (Fist +3)

    Greater Water Elemental (16 Hit Dice):
    STR 22, DEX 15, CON 16, INT 9, WIS 9, CHA 9; AL Neutral
    HP 168, AC 0, THAC0 3, Saving Throws 3/5/4/3/6
    2 Attacks Per Round, 4d8+10 Blunt (Fist +3)

    Special Qualities (12 & 16 Hit Dice):
    Immune to normal weapons
    Immune to hold, poison, polymorph, sleep, & stun effects
    Slashing, Crushing, Piercing, & Missile Resistance 20%


    Conjure Ice Elemental -TO DO (check animations)
    Level: 7
    Post edited by Grammarsalad on
    ButtercheeseGarvin77
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 7,564
    edited February 1
    FAQ continued, with a bit more substance that matters for players:

    "So, with these different kits and various deities, give me an idea of what will be available to the player when creating a character."

    Sure. Grammarsalad described the various kit archetypes above, but I'll recap briefly:
    - Clerics are your standard adventuring priests, well-equipped and ready for danger, traveling to spread their faith.
    - Acolytes are special sects, sometimes simply bound to temple duties and sometimes specially trained for dangerous missions on behalf of their deity. They are not as well-equipped for normal adventuring, but they are granted more, and more special, magical abilities.
    - Incarnates are imbued with inherent special powers by a deity, whether they like it or not. They are brimming with magical energies, but often less than wiling to perform a role that they did not get to choose for themselves.
    - Mystics celebrate a feature of the natural world - like the elements, or light, or plants or animal nature - and gain magical powers from it. Their magic is extremely potent, but very limited in scope.
    - Druids are a specialized type of Mystics who created an organized hierarchy in which to practice and teach their powers. Their abilities are tied to a particular geographic area of the natural world.
    - Occultists study unnatural or supernatural facets of the universe to gain magical power. They are not dissimilar to the way wizards study and gain power from Faerun's Weave, but of course Occultists have different methods and different results. They might study the inner planes, the outer planes, pure chaos, or even dare to steal divine power from deities.
    - Champions are holy warriors who represent their faith on battlefields and protect people from the depredations of opposing religions.
    - Inquisitors are holy warriors who protect temples and holy places. They act as bodyguards, soldiers, and police, and have special abilities to defend Acolytes from harm.
    - Zealots are Champions who are more in tune with the spiritual power of their faith. They travel the land actively seeking to stamp out enemies of their faith. They are generally hardier than Champions, but lightly armored.
    - Rangers are hardy survivalists, and good-willed preservationists. They bring skills such as stealth, nature magic, and weapon handling to bear against those who would defile nature and threaten peaceful communities. Their skills are tied to a particular geographic area.
    - Scouts are people with a similar skill set as rangers, but less aligned with Druids and nature. Scout kits are defined by their particular talents, rather than an ethos. They can be of non-Good alignment and do not "fall" the way rangers can.

    Here is a list of deity choices (and kit choices for other classes) that will be available for the PC upon the mod's release:
    Clerics:
    - Lathander
    - Helm
    - Tempus
    - Tymora
    - Leira
    - Loviatar
    - Talos

    Acolytes:
    - Lathander
    - Selune
    - Sune
    - Ilmater
    - Mask
    - Shar

    Incarnates:
    - (under construction...)

    Ranger/clerics:
    - Mielikki
    - Shaundakul
    - Sylvanus (druid/ranger)

    Cleric/mages:
    - Mystra
    - Shar
    - Sylvanus (druid/mage)

    Cleric/thieves:
    - Mask
    - Leira
    - Tymora
    - Sune
    - Sylvanus (druid/thief)

    Champions:
    - (under construction...)

    Inquisitors
    - (under construction...)

    Zealots
    - (under construction...)

    Mystics:
    - Earth Mystic
    - Water Mystic
    - Air Mystic
    - Fire Mystic
    - Light Mystic
    - Shadow Mystic

    Druids:
    - Forest Druid
    - Mountain Druid
    - Jungle Druid
    - Desert Druid
    - Arctic Druid

    Occultists:
    - Ur-priest
    - Elementalist
    - Demonologist
    - Animist (Shapeshifter)

    Rangers:
    - Forest Ranger
    - Mountain Ranger
    - Jungle Ranger
    - Desert Ranger
    - Arctic Ranger
    - Beastmaster

    Scouts:
    - Archer
    - Elven Archer
    - Slinger (halfling only)
    - Stalker
    - Mage Hunter
    - Barbarian Ranger


    "Wow, that's a lot of kits!"

    Yeah.

    "Okay, I pretty much get what a cleric is. But tell me more about these element-themed Mystics."

    EARTH MYSTIC:
    Abilities:
    - May cast one extra spell per level
    - Casts spells as if one level of experience higher
    - 2% crushing damage resistance per level, up to a maximum of 40% at 20th level
    - 25% of all melee hits Stun the target for 1-2 seconds upon a failed save vs. Death
    - Focus access to the sphere of Earth.
    - Major access to the spheres of Vigor, Plant, and Protection.
    - Minor access to the spheres of Animal, Knowledge, Affliction, and Magic.

    Restrictions:
    - May not be Chaotic

    WATER MYSTIC:
    Abilities:
    - May cast one extra spell per level
    - Casts spells as if one level of experience higher
    - 2% acid and cold damage resistance per level, up to a maximum of 40% at 20th level
    - 25% of all melee hits cause 1d4 points of acid damage
    - Focus access to the sphere of Water.
    - Major access to the spheres of Life, Vigor, and Affliction.
    - Minor access to the spheres of Thought, Animal, Plant, and Magic.

    Restrictions:
    - May not be Lawful

    AIR MYSTIC:
    Abilities:
    - May cast one extra spell per level
    - Casts spells as if one level of experience higher
    - 2% electric damage resistance per level, up to a maximum of 40% at 20th level
    - Immunity to harmful cloud-based spells
    - 25% of all melee hits cause 1d4 points of electricity damage
    - Focus access to the sphere of Air.
    - Major access to the spheres of Light, Vigor, and Knowledge.
    - Minor access to the spheres of Life, Protection, Thought, and Magic.

    Restrictions:
    - May not be Lawful

    FIRE MYSTIC:
    Abilities:
    - May cast one extra spell per level
    - Casts spells as if one level of experience higher
    - 2% fire damage resistance per level, up to a maximum of 40% at 20th level
    - 25% of all melee hits cause 1d4 points of fire damage
    - Focus access to the sphere of Fire.
    - Major access to the spheres of Vigor, Light, and Air.
    - Minor access to the spheres of Life, Protection, Knowledge, and Magic.

    Restrictions:
    - May not be Lawful

    LIGHT MYSTIC:
    Abilities:
    - May cast one extra spell per level
    - Casts spells as if one level of experience higher
    - Immune to blindness, and may dispel low-level illusions (up to 3rd level) 3 times per day
    - 20% of all melee hits cause the target to be enveloped by Faerie Fire for 2 rounds
    - Focus access to the sphere of Light.
    - Major access to the spheres of Protection, Vigor, Fire, and Air.
    - Minor access to the spheres of Life, Knowledge, Deception, and Magic.

    Restrictions:
    - May not be Evil

    SHADOW MYSTIC:
    Abilities:
    - May cast one extra spell per level
    - Casts spells as if one level of experience higher
    - Immune to blindness
    - 20% of all melee hits Blind the target for 5 seconds upon a failed save vs. Breath
    - Focus access to the sphere of Shadow.
    - Major access to the spheres of Protection, Vigor, and Air.
    - Minor access to the spheres of Life, Knowledge, Deception, and Magic.

    Restrictions:
    - May not be Good


    "Tell me more about these geographical Druid and Ranger kits."

    FOREST DRUID:
    Abilities:
    - Major access to the following spheres: Life, Vigor, Affliction, Animal, Plant, Light.
    - Minor access to the following spheres: Knowledge, Thought, Earth, Air, Water, Fire, Deception.
    - At 1st level, may summon a Spirit Wolf. The HD of the spirit animal increases to match the druid's level at 3rd, 5th, 7th and 10th level.
    - At 2nd level, may shapeshift into the form of a wolf. At 7th level this grows to a stronger dire wolf form.
    - At 5th level, may shapeshift into the form of a ferret.
    - At 9th level, may shapeshift into the form of a black bear.

    WOLF: In wolf form the druid can detect hidden enemies. He can attack 1.5 times per round for 2d3 slashing damage.

    FERRET: In ferret form the druid is initially hidden from view. He can attack once per round, causing 1d2 damage; if the target fails a save vs. death, the wound causes disease that saps the targets strength for one turn, and distraction that causes a 10% chance of spell failure.

    BLACK BEAR: In bear form, the Druid has 19 strength. He can attack twice per round with claws that cause 1d6 crushing damage and 1d6 slashing damage.

    MOUNTAIN DRUID:
    Abilities:
    - Major access to the following spheres: Life, Vigor, Animal, Earth, Air, Light.
    - Minor access to the following spheres: Knowledge, Thought, Affliction, Plant, Water, Fire.
    - At 1st level, may summon a Spirit Bear. The HD of the spirit animal increases to match the druid's level at 3rd, 5th, 7th and 10th level.
    - At 2nd level, may shapeshift into the form of a mountain lion.
    - At 5th level, may shapeshift into the form of a rat.
    - At 9th level, may shapeshift into the form of a grizzly bear.

    MOUNTAIN LION: In lion form the druid can attack 1.5 times per round for 2d3 slashing damage. If the target fails a save vs. death, the ragged wound is particularly savage, causing another 2 points of damage per round for 3 rounds.

    RAT: In rat form the druid is initially hidden from view. He can attack once per round, causing 1d2 damage; if the target fails a save vs. death, the wound causes disease that saps the targets strength for one turn, and distraction that causes a 10% chance of spell failure.

    GRIZZLY BEAR: In bear form, the Druid has 20 strength. He can attack twice per round with claws that cause 1d6 crushing damage and 1d6 slashing damage.

    JUNGLE DRUID:
    Abilities:
    - Major access to the following spheres: Life, Vigor, Affliction, Animal, Plant, Deception.
    - Minor access to the following spheres: Knowledge, Thought, Earth, Air, Water, Fire.
    - At 1st level, may summon a Spirit Snake. The HD of the spirit animal increases to match the druid's level at 3rd, 5th, 7th and 10th level.
    - At 2nd level, may shapeshift into the form of a panther.
    - At 5th level, may shapeshift into the form of a spider.
    - At 9th level, may shapeshift into the form of a wyvern.

    PANTHER: In wolf form the druid can attack 1.5 times per round for 2d3 slashing damage. If the target fails a save vs. death, the ragged wound is particularly savage, causing another 2 points of damage per round for 3 rounds.

    SPIDER: In spider form the druid is initially hidden from view. He can attack once per round, causing 1d2 damage; if the target fails a save vs. death, the wound injects poison into the victim which causes 1 point of damage every 3 seconds for 3 rounds.

    WYVERN: In wyvern form, the druid is immune to entanglement and webs. He can attack twice per round with claws that cause 2d4 slashing damage; if the target fails a save vs. death, the wound injects poison into the victim which causes 1 point of damage every 2 seconds for 3 rounds.

    DESERT DRUID:
    Abilities:
    - Major access to the following spheres: Life, Vigor, Animal, Air, Fire, Light.
    - Minor access to the following spheres: Knowledge, Thought, Affliction, Plant, Earth, Water.~
    - At 1st level, may summon a Spirit Lion. The HD of the spirit animal increases to match the druid's level at 3rd, 5th, 7th and 10th level.
    - At 2nd level, may shapeshift into the form of a leopard.
    - At 5th level, may shapeshift into the form of a hare.
    - At 9th level, may shapeshift into the form of a basilisk.

    LEOPARD: in leopard form the druid can attack 1.5 times per round for 2d3 slashing damage. If the target fails a save vs. death, the ragged wound is particularly savage, causing another 2 points of damage per round for 3 rounds.

    HARE: in hare form the druid is initially hidden from view. He can attack once per round, causing 1d2 damage; if the target fails a save vs. death, the wound causes disease that saps the targets strength for one turn, and distraction that causes a 10% chance of spell failure.

    BASILISK: in basilisk form, the druid may attack once per round with a powerful bite attack that does 1d6 crushing and 1d6 slashing damage. In addition, the druid may use a version of the basislisk's gaze attack which, while weaker than that of the real creature, can paralyze a creature that fails a save vs. petrification, for 60 seconds.

    ARCTIC DRUID:
    Abilities:
    - Major access to the following spheres: Life, Vigor, Animal, Water, Air, Light.
    - Minor access to the following spheres: Knowledge, Thought, Affliction, Plant, Earth, Fire.
    - At 1st level, may summon a Spirit Bear. The HD of the spirit animal increases to match the druid's level at 3rd, 5th, 7th and 10th level.
    - At 2nd level, may shapeshift into the form of a winter wolf.
    - At 5th level, may shapeshift into the form of a hare.
    - At 9th level, may shapeshift into the form of a polar bear.

    WINTER WOLF: In wolf form the druid can attack 1.5 times per round for 2d3 slashing damage. Once per round, the druid may also project frost breath at a nearby foe, causing up to 1d12 points of cold damage.

    HARE: In hare form the druid is initially hidden from view. He can attack once per round, causing 1d2 damage; if the target fails a save vs. death, the wound causes disease that saps the targets strength for one turn, and distraction that causes a 10% chance of spell failure.

    POLAR BEAR: In bear form, the Druid has 21 strength. He can attack twice per round with claws that cause 1d6 crushing damage and 1d6 slashing damage.

    FOREST RANGER:
    - Innate Charm Animal
    - Innate Goodberry
    - Combat bonuses against mammals, gibberlings, and lycanthropes
    - Access to the spheres of Life, Protection, Vigor, Animal, Plant, and Light

    MOUNTAIN RANGER:
    - +3 bonus to saves vs. Death and Petrification
    - Combat bonuses against kobolds, beetles, myconids, trolls, and umber hulks
    - Access to the spheres of Life, Protection, Vigor, Animal, Earth

    JUNGLE RANGER:
    - 50% poison resistance
    - May use Poison Weapon 1x/day
    - Combat bonuses against lizardmen, spiders, ettercaps, and wyverns
    - Access to the spheres of Life, Protection, Vigor, Affliction, Plant

    DESERT RANGER:
    - +1 hit point at levels 1-9
    - Combat bonuses against snakes, yuan-ti, basilisks, genies, and rakshasa
    - Access to the spheres of Life, Protection, Vigor, Air, Light

    ARCTIC RANGER:
    - 25% cold resistance
    - Combat bonuses against winter wolves, polar bears, yeti, salamanders, and remorhaz
    - Access to the spheres of Life, Protection, Vigor, Animal, Water
    Post edited by subtledoctor on
    JuliusBorisovGrammarsaladCrevsDaak
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 1,986
    edited May 29
    Bugs and stuff
    2017-05-29
    - Elemental AI: I'm pretty sure that I fixed it. CHanged control to control (vs. ally) and scripts to use BDSUM00.bcs Water elemental. Tested. Works

    2017-05-22
    - Fixed cleric of Kelevmor death ward and neg plane protection

    2017-05-21
    - Fixed doom special ability for for Beshaba Acolytes (and better implemented the ability)
    - Added misfire reference to spell in for Beshaba Acolyte description

    2017-05-20
    - Fixed icons in misfire spell/special ability for Beshaba Acolytes

    2017-05-19
    - Plant focus sphere no longer adds summon water elemental rather than assassin vines as a level 5 spell...
    - Grammar issues: Champions
    - Grammar issues: Zealots
    - Zealot of Ilmater: Correctly added frenzy in 2da
    - Acolytes: Added bonus spells (and lore bonuses in a few cases)

    2017-05-17
    - Changed Beshaba's spheres around. Focus: Dread. Need to test
    - Stalker spell: changed cre as druid staff

    [earlier]
    - Removed override references to COMPILE lines
    Post edited by Grammarsalad on
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 3,996


    Class Changes: Druid

    The plan right now is to change the name of the base druid to "Mystic" and make the standard druid a kit of that class. The feeling is that Mystic implies more than just a 'nature focused' class (though, it is conceivable that a given mystic might be 'nature focused').

    Details forthcoming.

    Would it be possible to somehow implement "branches" as well? The standard Druid was in AD&D 2nd edition generally referred to as the "Forest" Druid. Them being the specialty Priests of Silvanus and all. However, The Complete Druid's Handbook also introduced the Arctic Druid, Desert Druid, Gray(/Subterrain) Druid, Jungle Druid, Mountain Druid, Plains Druid and the Swamp Druid branches. Personally, I always viewed this as one of the greatest additions to the standard rules on TSR's part back then. After all; nature isn't solely made out of woods. ;)

    So yeah, it would be great to have these branches as some form of sub-kits for Druids! :3
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 1,986


    Class Changes: Druid

    The plan right now is to change the name of the base druid to "Mystic" and make the standard druid a kit of that class. The feeling is that Mystic implies more than just a 'nature focused' class (though, it is conceivable that a given mystic might be 'nature focused').

    Details forthcoming.

    Would it be possible to somehow implement "branches" as well? The standard Druid was in AD&D 2nd edition generally referred to as the "Forest" Druid. Them being the specialty Priests of Silvanus and all. However, The Complete Druid's Handbook also introduced the Arctic Druid, Desert Druid, Gray(/Subterrain) Druid, Jungle Druid, Mountain Druid, Plains Druid and the Swamp Druid branches. Personally, I always viewed this as one of the greatest additions to the standard rules on TSR's part back then. After all; nature isn't solely made out of woods. ;)

    So yeah, it would be great to have these branches as some form of sub-kits for Druids! :3
    This is almost certainly possible! I don't have the cdh, so I'll need more details. I might order it online if necessary, buy in the meantime, what specifically did you have in mind?

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 7,564
    edited August 2015
    As with anything else, arctic/desert/mountain/etc. druids will probably depend on whether there are enough resources in the game (spells, abilities, effects, creatures) to make them cool and interesting. Certainly I think we can do some of them.

    Scales of Balance, when installed on IWDEE, brings the Forest Druid up to the north and makes the more traditional kit available to players. I definitely hope we can at least do the reverse, bring the Northern/Arctic Druid down to the Sword Coast with some fun ice abilities...
    Kamigoroshi
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 3,996
    Branches differ from each other in various aspects. From different minimum ability scores. To allowed races. To their spheres of influence. Each terrain also gives minor bonuses to saving throws (such as +2 against cold for arctic druids, ect.). Well, the main feature to them is that they can only shapechange into animals that are native to the chosen environment. There are other merits and demerits as well, but most of them do not work that well in an computer game like BG. Oh, before I forget it: some druid kits are limited in their branches choice.
    Grammarsalad
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 1,986
    I see @Kamigoroshi . shapeshifting will depend on available animations. Some may require the infinity animations mod--that's the name, yes?--that adds animations.

    Speaking of which, I wonder if that one has some water elemental animations...

    Anyway, more updates to come (as time permits)
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 7,564

    Some may require the infinity animations mod--that's the name, yes?--that adds animations.

    Speaking of which, I wonder if that one has some water elemental animations...

    Yeah, but I've never gotten IA to work. :(

    IWDEE has a water elemental animation, and BG2 has those water weird things from the sahaugin city, and both games have an ice golem animation. But BGEE has none of them. :(
  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 736
    You need viader's Extended Animations, which is like IA except compatible with the Enhanced Editions.
    subtledoctorGrammarsalad
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 1,986

    You need viader's Extended Animations, which is like IA except compatible with the Enhanced Editions.

    Ahhh, that's the one!
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 1,986
    edited August 2015
    Okay, let's start with Lovitar, the Lady of Pain. She is always a fun one. Ask Ilmater.
    Base abilities:
    Lovitar, the Lady of Pain

    Available Kits: Cleric, Priest, Incarnate, Others(?)
    Favored Weapon: Flail (It would be a whip, but those aren't available in the game).
    Spheres:
    Major Access: (7: slightly above average)
    - Divine Aid
    - Life
    - Protection
    - Charm
    - Dread
    - Affliction
    - Vigor
    Minor Access: (4, for a total of 11 spheres-low average, but minor access to both exclusive spheres)
    - Death
    - Knowledge
    - Deception
    - Magic
    Special Abilities: (I think that pain touch is very good)
    - 1st: Pain Touch: At will, touch attack. Target must save vs. death -2 or see their dex/thac0 reduced by 4, and suffer 1 point of non-lethal damage/2 rounds. Lasts 10 rounds

    - 1st: Instrument of Pain: All spells that cause pain impose a -2 to their saves when cast by a servant of Lovitar. (not implemented, and will require re-creating a number of spells just for this kit, but I like it!)

    - 5th: Lovitar's Caress: 1/day +10 Thac0 with melee attacks, +2 dam/lev (max +20 at 10th). Should stack with Pain Touch. Lasts 4 rounds.

    (Noting further has been created for this kit. One concern that I have is that many of the abilities require hand to hand combat, whereas many of the kits that would take this one have low hp and defense.)

    Edit: Formatting
    KamigoroshiJuliusBorisov
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 1,986
    edited August 2015
    Ilmater, the Crying God

    Available Kits: Cleric, Priest, Incarnate, Others(?)
    Favored Weapon: Club (Heh, should be unarmed).
    Spheres:
    Major Access: (6: perfect average)
    - Divine Aid
    - Life
    - Protection
    - Knowledge
    - Vigor
    - Light
    Minor Access: (5, for a total of 11 spheres-low average)
    - Magic
    - War
    - Charm
    - Death
    - Fire

    Special Abilities:
    - 1st: Ilmater's Endurance: +4 to saves vs. death/poison, Resist fire/cold 20%
    - 1st: Remove Fear 1/day.
    - 1st: Resist fire/cold 20%
    - 3rd: Can cast Draw Upon Holy might 1/day (+1/day per 4 levels to a max of 5 at level 19)
    - 5th: Can cast Endurance of Ilmater 1/day: Doubles the hp of a touched creature, and +2 to all of their saves. Lasts 1 turn.
    - 12th: Can cast spirit of Ilmater 1/day: Target: Self. 80% resistance to physical attacks, +20% to resist all elemental attacks, and purges any poisons or diseases. Lasts 1 min/level (max 20 minutes at level 20)


    KamigoroshiJuliusBorisov
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 3,996
    Subtile difference, but wouldn't the club fit the image of Ilmater's priests better than a mace? They are after all dressed like beggars in Shadows of Amn. On the other hand... if you have another deity planned which has club as favored weapon, then it might be better to secure the mace for Ilmater I guess.
    Grammarsalad
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 1,986
    edited August 2015

    Subtile difference, but wouldn't the club fit the image of Ilmater's priests better than a mace? They are after all dressed like beggars in Shadows of Amn. On the other hand... if you have another deity planned which has club as favored weapon, then it might be better to secure the mace for Ilmater I guess.

    With the number of Gods that I'm planning, I'm sure that there is going to be crossover. That said, I agree that the club does fit better.

    Edit: I like this piecemeal approach. I think that it allows people (myself included) to digest each tiny morsel, making it easier to see flaws and suggest improvements.

    Edit2: I think I'm going to try to show each of these deity kits as they would be implemented with their various classes/kits. There are paladins of Ilmater, right?
    Kamigoroshi
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 1,730
    I support merging paladin to cleric - to put all divinely inspired classes under the same deity-selection framework

    But what would then happen to paladin kits?
    Imho only inquisitor and blackguard have distinct enough features, that are worth preserving.
    GrammarsaladCrevsDaak
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 7,564
    edited August 2015
    I hate the Inquisitor. The implementation is terrible, the concept muddled. What is that super-strength Dispel Magic supposed to represent? Is it offensive, or defensive? This is off-topic but:

    If it's offensive, meant as an ability to de-buff enemy mages, it's a poor way to represent that. Better to use Remove Magic in that case. Or do what my other mod does, and replace it with Breach. The Inquisitor is a warrior after all; the special power should be focused on making evil mages vulnerable to the point of their swords.

    But lately I've started to suspect that the Dispel ability originated as a defensive maneuver. The signature paladin ability that it replaces, after all, is Lay On Hands, a healing touch. I see a story like this: evil wizard uses dark magic to paralyze the brave soldiers protecting the king, and then kill them one-by-one... but the paladin manages to break the enchantment and free the soldiers to fight on! ...Or something like that. In this case, it should be a Dispel Magic power that only affects allies.


    In any event, the sphere system will let us play around with paladin abilities to improve and add to the kits. Like, instead of a cheesy, poorly-thought-out Dispel and no spellcasting, the Inquisitor could cast spells, with minor access to the spheres of Knowledge and Magic. Invisibility Purge, Dispel Magic, Miscast Magic... the spellcasting can *be* the kit's special abilities.

    So a holy warrior following Lathander or might have access to the sphere of Light and Vigor. Boom - there's eight spells that become your kit abilities. Your Gloryblood of Tempus would naturally have abilities from War and Protection. A Necrobane of Kelemvor could use spells from Life and Death. The basic Blackguard, I would turn into a dark warrior with access to powers from the spheres of Destruction and Dread. I think I mentioned earlier a possible holy warrior following Moander, spreading blight with powers of Affliction and Death.

    There are many many possibilities with this template. Giving paladins sphere-restricted spellcasting plus maybe one greater ability each, could lead to many kits with interesting and varied gameplay. (And we haven't gotten to rangers yet!)
    Post edited by subtledoctor on
    wolpakbob_veng
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 1,986
    As for the inquisitor, my instinct is to default to SoB. Iirc, the inquisitor is a follower of Helm, no? A question is whether it should be specific to one deity, or a kit that can be taken by more than one type of 'holy warrior'.

    As for other holy warrior archetypes, I'm sure we can think of something. Let's think of some ideas, see what sticks:

    Zealot: Lightly armed and armored warrior that can go into a faith-fueled frenzy.

    Hospitaler: Focuses on battlefield healing, rather than smiting.

    Peasant Hero: A warrior that is disconnected from any church hierarchy, who fights for a cause. Chosen/Blessed by a deity for their dedication to a common goal.

    Avenger: A holy assassin

    Templar: Focused on defense
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 3,996
    Inquisitors aren't specific followers of Helm. Keldorn being a Helm worshipper is more of a personal thing than Kit limitation. So you could technically be an Inquisitor of Mystra, even if they can't cast any divine spells in AD&D PnP either. On a side note, their Dispel Magic spell-like ability works originally on evil aligned opponents only. But is something like that even codeable?

    As for Paladins in general... the only kit I have mild interest would be the Expatriate: A holy warrior who was excommunicated from his order. This lead them to distrust formal institutions and organized religions of any kind, even lawful good govemments. Possible kit advantages (for starters) could be to loosen the Lawful Good alignment restriction a bit. Or make them Neutral Good and/or Chaotic Good only. A disadvantage could be that they are prohibited of obtaining the Paladin stronghold and instead get the Ranger one, being fugitives and all.


    Re:devoted Bard kits
    A Flagellant kit could work for either Ilmater or Loviatar worshippers.
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 7,564
    edited August 2015
    EDIT - cross-posted with @Kamigoroshi:

    On a side note, their Dispel Magic spell-like ability works originally on evil aligned opponents only.

    Yes, I think Demi is doing this in Kit Revisions. I'd rather not duplicate his work though - my choice would be to do something different, give players different mods that do different things. Also, I guess this means the Dispel is meant to be offensive, in which case I reiterate that Remove Magic or Breach would work better.

    ---

    In SoB I wrote the Inquisitor as the title of a sect following Helm. It just sounds right. In SoB (and, IIRC, BG2 canon) Helm's clerics are called Watchers; and the special powers of the Inquisitor kit are clearly derived from Helm-ish abilities, so I figured his paladins should be called Inquisitors. Where, after all do they get those powers from, if not a specific deity? How could a deity who doesn't have dominion over the spheres of Knowledge or Magic give paladins the powers of True Sight and Dispel?

    Like with druids, FR /= core AD&D. The Complete Paladin's Handbook is not controlling, here.

    As for all those paladin archetypes, I'm not 100% convinced. The paladin, after all, is a particular kind of warrior archetype. Do we need archetypes of archetypes? One can go crazy with this stuff. Like, Hospitalers focus on battlefield healing more than fightin' and smitin'? Sounds like... a cleric. :tongue:

    For now, I would be very satisfied with saying "a paladin is a particular class of holy warrior, and here we present you with 8-10 kits within that class, each following different deities." I think, like druids/mystics, we should re-name the parent class to something more generic ("Champion" works) and make the lawful good paladin itself just a subkit that venerates Torm (or Tyr... whatever).

    ---

    Question for @Grammarsalad: I created the Gloryblood of Tempus multiclass kit specifically as an alternative to paladins, since you can't have neutral paladins. If we can make non-LG, non-falling holy warriors within the paladin class, what use is the fighter/cleric multiclass? Too much overlap. Maybe the F/C should just be shut down. Or, only open for Dwarves, or something like that. (I assume we'll open up paladins for other races. Mazzy will be so happy!)

    ---

    Also: are we doing favored weapons, a la SoB? Or just opening up certain weapon proficiencies? We really need to settle what gets defined by kit, and what gets defined by deity choice...
    Post edited by subtledoctor on
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 7,564
    edited August 2015
    Also,

    A holy assassin

    Maybe we need to add a whole new divine subclass, within the thief class! :smiley:

    More seriously, @Grammarsalad or anyone else: how locked down are the class/kit menus? Could I make a ranger kit, but add it to K_C_H.2da, and have it selectable from the cleric menus?

    Because I wonder whether TnB Oracles should migrate over to this mod. Heck, they could even take the place of Incarnates, which sound like they might not use Vancian casting. Or maybe Invarnates could just be modeled after Oracles, and add a check in The mods so that they don't get installed together.

    Just thinking out loud here.

    I'm very very nearly done with the first release of my NPC mod. 2-3 days. Then I'll code up this sphere system and hand it off to Grammarsalad, and he can go crazy making kits.
    Post edited by subtledoctor on
    Grammarsalad
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 1,986

    EDIT - cross-posted with @Kamigoroshi:

    On a side note, their Dispel Magic spell-like ability works originally on evil aligned opponents only.

    Yes, I think Demi is doing this in Kit Revisions. I'd rather not duplicate his work though - my choice would be to do something different, give players different mods that do different things. Also, I guess this means the Dispel is meant to be offensive, in which case I reiterate that Remove Magic or Breach would work better.

    ---

    In SoB I wrote the Inquisitor as the title of a sect followingto elm. It just sounds right. In SoB (and, IIRC, BG2 canon) Helm's clerics are called Watchers; and the special powers of the Inquisitor kit are clearly derived from Helm-ish abilities, so I figured his paladins should be called Inquisitors. Where, after all do they get those powers from, if not a specific deity? How could a deity who doesn't have dominion over the spheres of Knowledge or Magic give paladins the powers of True Sight and Dispel?

    Like with druids, FR /= core AD&D. The Complete Paladin's Handbook is not controlling, here.

    As for all those paladin archetypes, I'm not 100% convinced. The paladin, after all, is a particular kind of warrior archetype. Do we need archetypes of archetypes? One can go crazy with this stuff. Like, Hospitalers focus on battlefield healing more than fightin' and smitin'? Sounds like... a cleric. :tongue:

    For now, I would be very satisfied with saying "a paladin is a particular class of holy warrior, and here we present you with 8-10 kits within that class, each following different deities." I think, like druids/mystics, we should re-name the parent class to something more generic (maybe just "Holy Warrior") and make the lawful good paladin itself just a subkit that venerates Torm (or Tyr... whatever).

    ---

    Question for @Grammarsalad: I created the Gloryblood of Tempus multiclass kit specifically as an alternative to paladins, since you can't have neutral paladins. If we can make non-LG, non-falling holy warriors within the paladin class, what use is the fighter/cleric multiclass? Too much overlap. Maybe the F/C should just be shut down. Or, only open for Dwarves, or something like that. (I assume we'll open up paladins for other races. Mazzy will be so happy!)

    ---

    Also: are we doing favored weapons, a la SoB? Or just opening up certain weapon proficiencies? We really need to settle what gets defined by kit, and what gets defined by deity choice...

    Okay, on my phone now, so I'm not going to be able to make a pretty post. Let me know if I miss something

    I agree about changing the name to something more generic. I suppose that I was half thinking that when I posted those suggestions. (I have to say that I really like the idea of a zealot. Got was idea from an old game, "the dark queen of krynn" where a lot of baddies were no armored, spear welding, crazies.)

    As for the paladin kit, it should be able to select a number of gods, including Tyr, Torn, and Helm, I think. I'm not sure if I've been completely clear about this, but I have been doing something like your Kensai kit. You select your class/kit, and then your deity, which applies a 'hidden' kit that has the abilities of the first selected kit plus specials from the deity selection.


    I'm pretty neutral about the inquisitor. The point about the knowledge and magic access is good, though perhaps inquisitors could only select deities that grant such access? It seems like Mystra and Azuth(sp?) would still be good candidates. I could see Bane using inquisitors to hunt clerics and casters of other faiths. He's a control freak like that.
    But, in any case, I think a few deities could support an inquisitor type.

    Yeah, I don't want to duplicate demi's work.

    One thing that I don't want to do is eliminate options (eg like remove the fighter/cleric). I guess the way I see it is there are different ways to achieve essentially the same effect. This one is a glory blood via the "champion/paladin" class--what should it be named?--and this one through multi class. Personally, I think that is okay. I think that conceptual overlap is inevitable. I say embrace it.

    Re favored weapon. My thought was to generally define weapon proficiencies by kit, but expand them by deity choice (again, similar to your Kensai kit). When you first create your cleric, you can place one (or two) points in (say) club, but if you select Ilmater's, you can add one more. For deities like Helm, where the base class cannot place ranks into the proficiency, a free rank would be given. Or something like that. I was at first thinking to just assume SoB's proficiency changes, but now it seems better to assume vanilla, and--not to be presumptuous--have the compatibility code in SoB (so, assume installation before SoB).

    Inquisitors aren't specific followers of Helm. Keldorn being a Helm worshipper is more of a personal thing than Kit limitation. So you could technically be an Inquisitor of Mystra, even if they can't cast any divine spells in AD&D PnP either. On a side note, their Dispel Magic spell-like ability works originally on evil aligned opponents only. But is something like that even codeable?

    As for Paladins in general... the only kit I have mild interest would be the Expatriate: A holy warrior who was excommunicated from his order. This lead them to distrust formal institutions and organized religions of any kind, even lawful good govemments. Possible kit advantages (for starters) could be to loosen the Lawful Good alignment restriction a bit. Or make them Neutral Good and/or Chaotic Good only. A disadvantage could be that they are prohibited of obtaining the Paladin stronghold and instead get the Ranger one, being fugitives and all.


    Re:devoted Bard kits
    A Flagellant kit could work for either Ilmater or Loviatar worshippers.

    Inquisitors: already addressed

    Re: Expatriate
    That sounds like something for a future release where we start messing with the quests. Man, we might need to recruit a writer.


    I like the idea of a Flagellant!
    Kamigoroshi
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 1,986
    Ooh yes, I want to open up paladins for other races!
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 7,564
    edited August 2015
    Got it. Archetypes = kits could work, with further differentiation by deity. We'll just have to be clear in the kit descriptions. "Inquisitors have X powers. They may choose to follow Helm or Mystra or Bane."

    The Peasant Hero sounds like Oversight's "Holy Liberator" kit. :smile:

    Re: proficiencies and favored weapons: that should be eminently feasible. The very simple solution I hit on was to front-run the prof system. Clerics get proficiencies what, every 5 levels? So you add free pips with the favored weapon at levels 4 and 9.

    That way, if the player opts for vanilla usability/profs, the favored weapon pips are simply added on top of it; and if the player installs the usability/proficiency changes, the favored weapon pips will go in first and the new system will work around it. As long as non-favored weapons are limited to specialization (++).

    Actually, note to self, if we want some kits to be able to go higher than ++, then the favored weapon pips should be added at levels 5 and 10, and restricted from player prof choice. I'll explain later. It'll work fine either way, though.

    The usability changes will be a bit complicated. My code can serve as the foundation, it will just need to be expanded, a lot. Be aware, depending on how we structure this thing, we might need to do double versions of the kit installation code. Basically, how SoB handles kit installation with and without detecting the Proficiency Overhaul.

    But, happily, I've figured out a technique for applying proficiency tweaks *after* kits go in, rather than before. So we can do it either way.
    Grammarsalad
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 1,986
    Excellent. All seems well in the neighborhood. Now we need to hammer out some details... As time permits
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 7,564
    We should probably list out the various kits, and which deities you can worship within each one. And their basic info like proficiencies, usability code, etc. This info should probably go in one of those reserved posts up top. It should make clear which stats/bonuses are determined by kit, and which we determined by deity choice.

    We should make some really basic decisions about structure: tweaks then kits? Kits then tweaks? Etc. What the .tp2 looks like will flow from there.

    Very roughly, I'm thinking I'll code up the sphere system and hand it off to you, then you can code up kits etc., and then we can add the usability/proficiency option after that.

    OMG just had a wild idea: hack *all* basic clerics into the bard class! (It will be empty, since I'll be moving all bards into the thief class :wink: ) Bard Song is an extremely flexible modal ability, unlike Turn Undead. You could probably have Bard Song emulate TU precisely, but then change it for certain kits. Of course, you'd have to block out the Pick Pockets button... eh, this is probably too crazy and too much trouble.
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 1,986

    We should probably list out the various kits, and which deities you can worship within each one. And their basic info like proficiencies, usability code, etc. This info should probably go in one of those reserved posts up top. It should make clear which stats/bonuses are determined by kit, and which we determined by deity choice.

    We should make some really basic decisions about structure: tweaks then kits? Kits then tweaks? Etc. What the .tp2 looks like will flow from there.

    Very roughly, I'm thinking I'll code up the sphere system and hand it off to you, then you can code up kits etc., and then we can add the usability/proficiency option after that.

    OMG just had a wild idea: hack *all* basic clerics into the bard class! (It will be empty, since I'll be moving all bards into the thief class :wink: ) Bard Song is an extremely flexible modal ability, unlike Turn Undead. You could probably have Bard Song emulate TU precisely, but then change it for certain kits. Of course, you'd have to block out the Pick Pockets button... eh, this is probably too crazy and too much trouble.

    Man, I really, really want a "change turn undead" opcode...I really do. In any case, as suggested in the SoB thread, we should also figure out what to do with the bard slot.

    This is a good plan. I have to give you some file names for some of the new spells. I'll go through my files asap (probably tonight or tomorrow am. Not at computer now)
  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 382
    You could try scripting with ModalState(I:State*MODAL)
    Grammarsalad
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 1,986
    wolpak said:

    You could try scripting with ModalState(I:State*MODAL)

    @wolpak I'm not seeing an action that sets modal states in the IESDP. Is there something undocumented that I'm not seeing?
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