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[Mod] Faiths of Faerûn Kitpack v0.5c (Ready for testing)

MordeusMordeus Member Posts: 460
edited April 2013 in General Modding
The Faiths of Faerûn Kitpack by @Requiem & @Mordeus

Version 0.5c is out for testing.

The following link will take you to the developer's dropbox where past and present versions of the mod are archived. It's recommended you download the latest version.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BwxUZXZbu5bpeTVBV3RUMFJTQjg&usp=sharing

Readme Documentation can be found here:

http://danpugh.eu5.org/

Also in the following link is a voting form where users can vote on their favourite D&D deities. Those with the highest votes will make it into the mod.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1HUcQC-wMWQZ-RJ8FB9p-uLcubS9zYtTcCVYtyphtxR4/viewform


- Over 25 Cleric Kits from 2ed organized into just 1 Character Creation Kit Slot, each with their own deity specific spells.

image

- Pre-existing Divine Spells are organised into spheres with 30 additional new spells from 2ed.

image

- A new Usability Flag System allowing for unconventional equipment combinations.

image

- New enlarged spell icons that reflect the schools they come from.

Divination = White
Conjuration = Purple
Abjuration = Green
Alteration = Blue
Invocation = Red
Enchantment = Yellow
Illusion = Pink
Necromancy = Cyan

image

Beta Version ETA: Late March 2013

We are into the finer stages of the project. Most of the kits are done, the spells are nearly finished and the graphical work is close to complete. However before our first release, we're going to use this thread to test out our ideas so we can quickly course correct the more unpopular ones.

The first idea up for discussion is the new look for spell icons. I've tried to emulate the original white/red/blue look but I couldn't achieve the same look when it came to the stone interface icons. So instead the Conjuration/Divination/etc... glow effect icons shown above were created. The plan is to give an option to make them universal for all Divine priests, and to use the same effect when we start work on mage kits. When shown in the spellbook, the icons take on a drawn look.

So yes or no to changing the look of the divine spell icons?

Post edited by Mordeus on
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Comments

  • KasKas Member Posts: 28
  • XavioriaXavioria Member Posts: 874
    <---- OVERWHELMED

    I wow... I can't wait to try this....

  • LavaDelVortelLavaDelVortel Member Posts: 1,287
    It's amazing! Really :) Congratulations!
    As for the change of the icons - maybe it's possible to implement both? But it would mean a lot of work.

  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 9,138
    I really like the new icons.

  • XavioriaXavioria Member Posts: 874
    May I ask... three questions:
    1) Exactly what was it about the red/blue/white system that didn't work for you? Was it just beginning to make any sense or was it becoming too limiting for the extra spells?
    2) Is the different colors in spells going to be for BOTH mage and priest spells or just priest spells, and is it going to be an optional component?
    3) Are you going to change infravision to actually do something?

  • CuChoinneachCuChoinneach Member Posts: 105
    I really like the direction that this is going. The organization is far superior to the current system. I love the new icons too, I'm just too sure about the outline versions for the spellbook. Perhaps if they were colored but not glowing to reflect their school. Just a thought.

  • MordeusMordeus Member Posts: 460
    Xavioria said:

    May I ask... three questions:
    1) Exactly what was it about the red/blue/white system that didn't work for you? Was it just beginning to make any sense or was it becoming too limiting for the extra spells?
    2) Is the different colors in spells going to be for BOTH mage and priest spells or just priest spells, and is it going to be an optional component?
    3) Are you going to change infravision to actually do something?

    1) Two reasons. Firstly is purely aesthetic based. The red/blue/white icons look good in the spellbook but they are a pain to render against the stone background. Especially when the red and blue don't provide enough contrast. I'm creating the icons as vectors then converting them into pixels so it's hard to get the same gradient effect as the original developers who I suspect did the icons pixel by pixel, and therefore had more control over colouring. Not to mention that the stone background I was using was uniformed, so that stuck out against the original stone backgrounds that are shaped to the form of the icons.

    Secondly was that alot of the spells were hard to categorize as attack or defense. Particularly the Conjuration spells which aren't exactly there for attacking, since you could be using them as diversions or for defense. Or that there wasn't much difference between a red spell like Spiritual Hammer or a blue spell like Drawn Upon Holy Might. Plus adding in the sphere system and the new spells, some kits had an overload of red icons which rendered the red/blue/white style useless.

    The 8 colour system isn't perfect either as there are some Conjuration spells like Bless which aren't typical of that school. But they provide a little more information to what the spell does, whether it charms, creates an illusion, protects, heals, etc... I've also changed the look of some of the original spells to add in the same iconography. So Dispel Evil would have the symbol used in Detect Evil, while Remove Curse would have the status icon for curse instead of the symbol used for Evil. And all spells that summon a companion will have the little dish represented at the bottom where in the original icons it is sometimes missing. So the idea is that by looking at the school's colour and the symbol itself you can deduce what it is.

    The method I've got up and running in making spell icons is incredibly quick. I can get a spell icon done in under 5 minutes and anyone with Adobe Illustrator can follow what I've done to achieve the same results.

    2) The plan is to have this done to the mage spells too. After this kitpack we are going to work on an expansion that focuses on arcane spells and kits. There are a couple of schools of magic from 2ed that we want to introduce like Metamagic and Elemental Fire. Besides I'm all about consistency so it would look wrong to have this style applied to only divine spellcasters.

    All of the new kits will use the new icons but there will be an option to apply the new style to all divine spells, and therefore all divine spellcasting kits.

    3) You mean Infravision the Level 1 Wizard spell? We'll probably have a look at that when we get started on the Arcane spells. We're largely in the business of adding in forgotten 2ed spells and moving pre-existing ones to their proper place in the spellbook.

  • reedmilfamreedmilfam Member Posts: 2,808
    I would prefer keeping the spell colors the same as original, if only for consistency.

    CrevsDaak
  • MordeusMordeus Member Posts: 460

    I really like the direction that this is going. The organization is far superior to the current system. I love the new icons too, I'm just too sure about the outline versions for the spellbook. Perhaps if they were colored but not glowing to reflect their school. Just a thought.

    That's a good idea. I'm going to have to strengthen the impact of the lines because they do seem a bit faint. I was trying to replicate the drawn style used in the item description's illustrations but that seems rather visually dull when used too much.

    I might just colour the inside of the lines as if someone was painting the pages of the book with watercolours. Not a strong glowing colour like the interface icons but rather a more subdued pale wash of colour.

    CuChoinneach
  • MordeusMordeus Member Posts: 460
    edited March 2013

    I would prefer keeping the spell colors the same as original, if only for consistency.

    Here's a comparison of the two styles. Even though I created them, I'm not too convinced that I did a very good job of emulating the original style. The gradient effect I had going just disappeared during converting them into .bam files, leaving the icons to look really dull.

    image

    image

    It's really a choice of upholding the visual tradition of the original, or redoing them all in a style that makes them fit in seamlessly.

    AedanCrevsDaak
  • CuChoinneachCuChoinneach Member Posts: 105
    Mordeus said:

    ...I might just colour the inside of the lines as if someone was painting the pages of the book with watercolours. Not a strong glowing colour like the interface icons but rather a more subdued pale wash of colour.

    Yes, exactly what I was thinking! :)

  • CrawleyCrawley Member Posts: 74
    edited March 2013
    I just love it!
    One thing game wise: when having so many deities etc, it would make sense to remove the classic un-kitted cleric. Thus, is it possible to force a kit selection onto a character while dual/multi-classing similarly to IWD2 (or to a multi-class gnome)?
    That would make perfect sense to me.

  • batenbaten Member Posts: 9
    @Mordeus
    Since I have absolutely no knowledge about modding, not sure how easy it is for you to do...
    But you could consider changing the stone colour into say brownish (kind like the spell book colour) to make the color contrast easier.
    So instead of stone it's now pieces of parchment where the spell is engraved on.

  • EvinfuiltEvinfuilt Member Posts: 505
    I'm gobsmacked by what you're showing there. I personally love the direction of the new spell icons. I hope you work equally hard on documenting each kit/spell available for those without source books.

    I would also think it would be smart to to work on paladins, druids, and rangers next, before mages. As they overlap so much with clerics spell selection.

    Crawley
  • zupskyzupsky Member Posts: 125
    I really love new icons! Can't wait for the release!

  • RequiemRequiem Member Posts: 187
    @evinfuilt all of the new spells and abilities are fully documented in the same style as original bg spells. I'm really glad that the response to mine and Mordeus' work has been so positive, we will definitely give you something you will enjoy playing!

    Erg
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 6,728
    @Mordeus you say that most of the kits are done. How will the kits be different from each other? Spell access? Special abilities? A little of both?

  • CuChoinneachCuChoinneach Member Posts: 105

    @Mordeus you say that most of the kits are done. How will the kits be different from each other? Spell access? Special abilities? A little of both?

    Here is the original thread that describes the kits...

    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/15433/44-priest-kit

  • MordeusMordeus Member Posts: 460
    Crawley said:

    I just love it!
    One thing game wise: when having so many deities etc, it would make sense to remove the classic un-kitted cleric. Thus, is it possible to force a kit selection onto a character while dual/multi-classing similarly to IWD2 (or to a multi-class gnome)?
    That would make perfect sense to me.

    I honestly have no idea if that would work, we haven't tested it but it seems like it could. The only problem is that the 2nd edition rules for these kits bars multi-class combinations. They are treated as their own standalone thing since they could be a little too powerful if multi-classed.

    One thing we were thinking of doing was creating some of the kits as cleric/thief kits since the rules mention that some of them have thieving abilities. The only problem there was the Kit Description and name of the Kit was locked as a cleric/thief with no way of changing it. So aesthetically it made the kit seem like it was just a standard multi-class and without the kit description the player would have no way in game of knowing the limitations of the kit. There probably is a way around this but for now that's going to be left for a future update.
    Evinfuilt said:

    I'm gobsmacked by what you're showing there. I personally love the direction of the new spell icons. I hope you work equally hard on documenting each kit/spell available for those without source books.

    I would also think it would be smart to to work on paladins, druids, and rangers next, before mages. As they overlap so much with clerics spell selection.

    We are pretty much inserting the sourcebook descriptions for the kits and spells with some minor alterations to take in consideration pre-existing spells and the way the Infinity Engine works. Especially since some of the original BG spells aren't following the p&p rules, so we have to weaken or strengthen the new spells to make them fit in with the game.

    Mages are next purely because the new Arcane spells and spell icons will be very time consuming so best to get a start on them as soon as possible. We are thinking of getting the foundations for the big four (Fighter, Cleric, Mage, Thief) done first and then work on the more hybrid classes (Paladin, Druid, Ranger, Bard). Not to mention that we are going to have to map out all the other kits first before we start work on them. Since we have to be mindful of the number of kit slots available to us while also factoring in that certain kits are racially restrictive. For example the Totem Sister, an elf kit must be balanced with a human kit if we are to put it under the Ranger category.

    There's also the little problem of Paladins and Druids having quite lame kits. They were never really meant to be treated as classes on the same level as the main four, so the level of detail given to them is quite shallow. Bards are easy because their 2ed Handbook is extremely detailed with up to 15 great kits to choose from. Rangers benefit from having most of the Elven style Fighter kits fitting under their header. Druids can be merged in with Cleric based Barbarians kits. Just Paladins and Monks to an extent are the problem. Funnily the Inquisitor is the only true Paladin kit used in BG2. The Undead Hunter is actually the 2ed's Undead Slayer which is only given to Elves, and since Elves can't be Paladins then it can't be a Paladin kit. Then the Cavalier is traditionally a Fighter kit or a class of its' own. So the Paladin kits will really be a challenge at just finding worthy kits to add. The only one that comes to mind is the Runecaster.

    We haven't mentioned this yet but we are implementing a non-weapons proficiency system into the game. This isn't all that relevant to clerics and mages but it will be instrumental in customizing the more melee oriented kits. Basically the Non-Weapon Proficiency system will be using the HLA menu to add certain abilities, traits and feats as every as level 1. Each kit gets a limited number of points to spend in up to 25 different abilities, so you won't be able to max out with all the abilities. You'll be able to customize your kit even further with skills like the Tracking proficiency the ability to use Musical Instruments, etc... This is the third stage to the mod, after the divine and arcane spells.

    @Mordeus you say that most of the kits are done. How will the kits be different from each other? Spell access? Special abilities? A little of both?

    The kits really are characterised by three areas.

    - The spells are restricted by spheres. So some have an emphasis on healing while others are more combative. Some can only heal superficial wounds while others can only manipulate the dead. Some are designed to fight good natured creatures, some evil and some can do both. Each kit also gains 2-6 unique spells that are only designed for them to use. So a priest of Silvanus will have a couple unique druid spells, while a priest of Myrkul will have some unique necromantic spells.

    - The equipment restrictions vary. Some kits can use Elven weapons and equipment. Some can use the equipment of a Paladin. While some are forbidden from armor or forbidden from weapons. The weapon proficiencies are changed to reflect this.

    - Each kit has certain innate abilities like immunities or innate skills. When the rules state that each kit can use certain wizard spells once, twice, etc... a day, we decided to just add them into the priest's spellbook. Just because we wanted to avoid cluttering the innate skill menu since it will be overrun by Bhaalspawn abilities and a future update of non-weapon proficiencies.

    There's also some minor additions like a tome that details a description of their deity, so it'll save the player the trouble of googling obscure D&D gods. Armor that is coloured to reflect their faith. And a future update of racial changes, for example it wouldn't make sense to have a Drow priest not be a Drow.

  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 9,138
    I really disagree with removing the base cleric. Specialty priests were actually a minority in the churches of Faerun. Most clerics were general clerics or even non-spellcasters. That's one of the reasons the kits have higher requirements than the general cleric.

    Nature deities, such as Chauntea, for instance, normally had a clergy composed of Druids living in nature and city clerics. I don't think it would need a lot of imagination to imagine they didn't always agree what they should do about certain issues.

    Some faiths had wizards in the clergy like Mystra and Azuth. Rangers were the nature gods holy warriors, and that's why they receive divine spells. Paladins were the holy warriors of the Lawful Good deities. The idea of holy warriors of evil and neutral deities was introduced later in expansion books.

    Erg
  • MordeusMordeus Member Posts: 460
    edited March 2013
    Yeah the Trueclass Cleric should be largely left alone. Maybe with an option to update them in regards to the sphere system and how they exist within 2ed.

    In the Faiths & Avatar supplement it says that Clerics have major access to all, astral, charm, combat, creation, divination, guardian, healing, necromantic, protection, summoning, sun and wards. With minor access to elemental, travelers and war. Lawful aligned Clerics get access to the Law sphere while Chaotic aligned Clerics get access to the Chaos sphere. Neutral Clerics get to pick from Law or Chaos. Aside from that they are pretty much the same as in BG.

    Druids get major access to all, animal, elemental, healing, plant and weather spheres. With minor access to the divination sphere. But as per the Player's Handbook they gain immunity to charm spells cast by woodland creatures. +2 bonus to fire and electrical attacks. Then upon becoming a Hierophant Druid or Grand Druid they get immunity to natural poisons. So they are fairly different from how they are in BG, a bit frustrating that Elves can't have access to the Druid kits in BG2 though.

    All of this will be up for discussion when we get the Divine and Arcane spells sorted. I've got a list of around 300 2nd edition kits that we're going to have to whittle down.

    mlnevese
  • DarksheerDarksheer Member Posts: 84
    Awesome job! Can't wait to get my hands on this one. :D On the spell icons, I would prefer the original style which looks like good quality work. The new icons you've made look great too but don't fit baldur's gate very well.

  • LordsDarkKnight185LordsDarkKnight185 Member Posts: 615
    This sounds like an amazing replacement for Divine Remix (Sense it seems it will never be updated for bgee) Im excited to see how far you go with it.

    I know you don't have plans for rangers and paladins, but will you atleast think about setting up spell sphere restrictions like they have in P&P 2e? (DR did this too)

  • RequiemRequiem Member Posts: 187
    @LordsDarkKnight185 I would like to think that our mod will bring a bit more to the table than Divine Remix, although that's not to say that DR didn't offer a lot, it clearly did and was hugely popular.

    We have basically rewritten the item usability system to offer more interesting combinations without breaking the old usabiility, made lots of new and unique spells (around 130 when I counted last) and offered some completely new and unseen cleric kits. Obviously to anyone reading this thread this is all talk until the mod is ready to be released for public beta, but I think at that point people will be very pleasantly surprised.

    We do have plans for rangers and paladins and they will be moved onto the sphere system in time. In fact we have plans for every class, although at the moment they are just basic ones. We will get the core four done first (cleric, mage, fighter and thief, probably in that order).

    A pet hate of mine is the way fighters, paladins and rangers play at the moment; they feel very boring, most of the time you can just give them the standard attack script and leave them to their own devices. When we introduce the non-weapon proficiency system we will be adding a lot more flavour to all classes, but particularly melee classes, and hopefully bring a bit more strategy to them, it will have to be a good balance, neither myself nor @mordeus are too keen to stray from the original D&D rules where possible, although brining in elements of 3e can help this.

    At the end of the day our goal is to make this mod as professional and polished as possible, and given the people playing it the best experience we can.

    ErgCuChoinneachDarkersunDarksheer
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 9,138
    @Requiem When you review mages, please give Wild Mages some love. So many nice abilities and spells were never converted to the game...

  • CuChoinneachCuChoinneach Member Posts: 105
    @Requiem Love it! (...and Elven Rangers have always been my favs!)

  • LordsDarkKnight185LordsDarkKnight185 Member Posts: 615
    @Requiem I did not intend to sound rude or judgmental. I am really excited about everything you are doing with this mod.

  • RequiemRequiem Member Posts: 187
    edited March 2013
    @LordsDarkKnight185 I know, sorry if i came across as taking what you said as an insult, it's hard to convey tone over the internet, I took it as a compliment that you compared our work to divine remix :), just wanted to say that hopefully in time this mod can exceed it

    Post edited by Requiem on
  • MordeusMordeus Member Posts: 460
    edited March 2013
    mlnevese said:

    @Requiem When you review mages, please give Wild Mages some love. So many nice abilities and spells were never converted to the game...

    Some of the Wild Mage spells not implemented seem like they could be a bit tricky but most seem doable. These are the ones left out of the game from Tome of Magic.

    Hornung's Guess - Determines the number of foes in the vinicinity.
    Patternweave - Assembles broken objects into whole things.
    Hornung's Baneful Deflector - Bounces missile magic back to caster.
    Nahal's Nonsensical Nullifier - Randomizes target's alignment.
    Alternate Reality - Creates alternate results of one round, allowing for the player to choose which result to enforce.
    Fireflow - Can manipulate existing flames into certain directions with concentration.
    Fool's Speech - Can speak any language.
    There/Not There - Can randomly disappear objects with 50% chance.
    Unluck - Target's multiple attempts are negated for the worst result.
    Vortex - Creates a swirling mass of magical energy that can be moved by will. If struck by it the target gets 1d4-6 points of damage with a 5% chance of exploding in a wild surge.
    Waveform - Can shape and move bodies of water.
    Wildshield - Creates a barrier around the caster that protects against spells and surges.
    Wildstrike - Embues the Wild Surge effect on a spellcaster for 2d4 rounds.
    Hornung's Surge Selector - Greater control over surges
    Spell Shape - Bounce a spell with a wild surge
    Hornung's Random Dispatcher - Sends monster to random map
    Wildzone - Creates a field with the Wild Magic Zone effect.
    Stabilize - Opposite to Wildzone, negates any Wild Magic Zone.
    Wildfire - Wild Mage's version of the Wish spell.
    Wildwind - Causes 2d6 damage and forces a wild surge on the enemy caster.

    Hornung's Guess, Patternweave, Alternate Reality, Fireflow, Fool's Speech and Waveform are pretty useless in the context of BG. And something like Hornung's Random Dispatcher seems more of a novelty, though it could be implemented if it meant only teleporting creatures to major maps like Nashkel or Bereghost.

    But spells like Nahal's Nonsensical Nullifier, Vortex, Wildstrike, Hornung's Surge Selector, Spell Shape, Wildzone, Wildfire and Wildwild seem like perfect fits for BG. Makes you wonder why only three Wild Magic spells were included in the first place.

    We'll definitely look into at least providing 3-6 more spells to the school of wild magic.

    mlneveseCrevsDaak
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