Ok, just created the voting form. There's 7 categories and you can only pick one priest from each one. The results are going to be hidden for the moment to avoid anything that may influence the results. But anyways, the idea is that the deity from each category with the most votes will be added into the mod.
If you see a priest missing from the list, then that's because it's already in the mod or it didn't have enough 2ed source material. So unfortunately there is only one deity that actively seeks out Half-Orc followers in the list.
One thing I will comment on, even though it makes complete sense in a lot of ways, is the lack of healing spells for evil clerics, specifically Viconia. I think it makes sense from an RP perspective, but it's kinda awkward gameplay-wise.
You have to think of it this way, You don't NEED healers. Does it make things easier? yes, But evil parties should be challenging. Remember your reverse bless will make enemies hit less, therefore the party takes less damage thanks to it. also the harm spells aren't exactly weak damaging spells. Yes it is a RP perspective, but considering this is a RPg, that shouldn't be an issue.
Healing spells shouldn't be any rarer to evil clerics than to good ones. Cause x wounds and Cure spells aren't evil or good, the gods grant them both to their clerics no matter what alignment they are.
Edit: Although I do like the idea of more specialized spells for NPC:s, as the spell list can also represent their personal favourites.
@LordsDarkKnight185 - I fail to see any RP perspective here, playing evil characters shouldn't be more difficult because of less basic healing spell options but because the choices they make bring them dire consequences.
Haven't tested the mod yet since it seems to evolve at quite a pace, I'll give my own feedback soon.
@Darksheer We probably went a little too far with restricting good cleric kits from the 'obverse' form of spheres and giving evil clerics only access to reversed form of spheres. However there are some p&p limitations when it comes to spheres. The Drow gods, Duegar Gods, Urdlen and Shar can only use reversed spells from the Sun sphere. With Lathander not having access to reversed spells from the Necromantic sphere. I think that's all the limitations of the 25 kits we've picked out, there could be more beyond that.
So we can easily change things around to give the Evil Clerics 'obverse' spells and the Good Cleric having reversed spells.
@minevese luckily Eudaemonium managed to help me through the process of using Weidu Mac. But that smaller weidu is very useful, we'll bundle it with each future release from now on.
Next step is to try and get @subtledoctor's applescript workaround up and running.
@subtledoctor I have a problem with the script running through the terminal. It runs half of the script and then logs out and says "[process completed]" before it gets a chance to run anything after the delay.
So it runs "do shell script "open -a Terminal " & BGpath" fine but then it shuts down before getting to run "do script "./Setup-FOF" in window 1"
I thought it was something on my end with the Terminal, so I attempted a re-installation of the operating system and it crashed the hard drive. So I'm going to be out for at least a week until I get a new laptop (the one I was working on was over 6 years old so I was due for an upgrade). But we'll package that into the next release and get other mac users to test it out.
As for what I can do with this mod. I can't test anything in game since my version of BG:EE was on the mac. But I can still provide .bam file support from my PC; either fixing broken ones or creating new ones. While implementing whatever I can do from BG2. The hard drive crash isn't such a big deal since I was going to be spending time this week working on the innate skill and HLA .bams. It'll also give me some time to upload some plans of upcoming features to the drop box for feedback.
And as for the voting form, there's a clear consensus starting to form with the Gnome and Halflings kits, the others need some more votes to break the ties that are going on. @requiem has started work on adding a new Specialty Priest and I've picked a priest that has so far the most votes to start work on.
If you would like help, though inexperienced, I would love to try to help. On another note, I think the armor changes needs a few tweaks.
So Far, the heavy armor feels good, with the damage and movement speed reduction, it really feels like you are a walking juggernaut.
Though I think the lighter armors needs a boost of AC compared to heavy armor to compensate. Or reduce the AC bonus of heavy armors.
My opinion ? Being lighter means easier to dodge attacks, which is represented by AC in the game.
Right now, the heavy armor gives more AC AND more damage reduction, which basically means harder to hit, and hurt less when you do. The only thing the light armor gives is that you move at normal speed or almost normal, and you can use your special skills almost to their fullest. Sure, that's good, but how come you are easier to hit than a slow moving heavy plated warrior ? Just my opinion though.
Actually guys hold off on the voting form. I'm going to make it that you can pick as many deities as you want, while adding a section on voting for future features like a racial or improved HLA system. I'll use the results I've already gathered but in the next hour be introducing a much more focused form.
@Jaeldyn We'd love the extra help. At the moment we're getting the plans put together and when they're released you're free to see what you can do. I don't want to be sending you off on a project that may end up getting being revised the next day.
We'd love the extra help. At the moment we're getting the plans put together and when they're released you're free to see what you can do. I don't want to be sending you off on a project that may end up getting being revised the next day.
Ok, created the new voting form. I've put in all 90 viable specialty priests that haven't made it into the mod in one list (except the Mulhorandi gods). So you could select all 90 if you felt like it. Much better than grouping them into categories cause a certain god (Tymora) ended up dwarfing the Halfling choices.
Then I put together a page listing all the viable 2nd edition kits that aren't Specialty Priests, I might have missed some so I left a dialogue box where you could put in suggestions.
And then there is a page where you can direct us to where we should be going in the future. Be it more specialty priests, more spells, etc... Lastly it will ask you for your username so we can know who voted. The old form had a problem with duplicate entries.
I installed the Mac version via Terminal with no problems, but on starting a new game, I get a bunch of missing strings in the opening dialogue. I'm pretty sure I installed it in the right place (unzipped into the Resources directory).
Did you move the dialog.tlk file from the lang folder, and then move it to the resource folder to launch weidu and then move the dialog.tlk back to the lang folder?
Be sure to keep a copy of your original dialog.tlk set aside just incase things do go wrong.
I do not like that there are choices for dead gods (Like Bhaal and Amaunator) Or non-realms gods (Like from greyhawk) But I would mind less if I had a choice not to install those.
@jaeldyn@subtledoctor this is a good point. I always thought of AC as representing the chance a hit would get through your armor and cause lasting damage rather than your chance to dodge an attack.
The increased mobility should help with dodging through moving quickly but I can appreciate your idea of lightly armored people getting hit less as they can dodge more.
My idea is this (not far off what subtledoctor said) firstly lighter armors give a bonus to ac (to simulate dodge chance) so for instance leather and studded leather +4, chain +1, others give -1 or possibly -2 to reflect the fact that they mamake dodging hard.
Secondly, chain/splint give a -1 pen to dex, and plate and full plate -2.
In this scenario the leather armors will have their damage reduction lowered to perhaps as low as 5% across the board and heavy armours may be increased to perhaps 25% or so to balance things out, depending on feedback.
This should lead to people in highly enchanted light armour taking fewer hits than those in full plate, but taking much more damage when they do, which sounds pretty good to me.
@LordsDarkKnight185 I've thrown in Hextor from Greyhawk because aside from Malar and Ghaunadaur, he's the only god that lets Half-Orcs into his priesthood. But I can assure you that he and Heironeous won't get in from the way the votes are going. Though Bastion of Faith, the supplement that details the two Greyhawk specialty priests says that you can use the kits in a Forgotten Realms setting provided you switch Heironeous with Torm and Hextor with either Bane or Iyachtu Xvim. So we could use elements of the kits.
As for dead gods like Amaunator, Bane, Bhaal, Ibrandul, Leira, Moander, Myrkul and Gilgeam with the missing gods of Waukeen and Ulutiu. They may not be active during BG1-2 but some could be active during the events of The Black Pits.
Besides in Faiths and Avatars, it's said that some living gods are masquerading as the dead ones. For example Shar has been appearing as Ibrandul long after his demise to his followers. Then you have Amaunator who in the BG2 universe is sorta not completely dead and lives on in the form of At'ar in the Anauroch region. So you can form a justification that whichever god assumes their portfolio, has also assumed their identity.
We may look into an installation option of denying certain gods but it's just easier not to select them. Besides there's a really good chance that only one or two actually make it into the mod.
@BenN Did you move the dialog.tlk file from the lang folder, and then move it to the resource folder to launch weidu and then move the dialog.tlk back to the lang folder?
I agree with Subtledoctor, though, as for the Full Plate and Packing Steel mod, they said it plainly that they incorporated in their mod so that people had one less mod to install (It will most likely be like a huge package that will allow people to avoid downloading too much mods).
On another note, it may be time to separate the different components of the mods at the install so that people can actually choose what to install. I think it is done with the BEGIN command in the setup, just add a BEGIN before each component
@subtledoctor The mod will be split up into optional components when it starts to get out of the beta stages. Eventually the Faiths of Faerun title will be ditched for something much broader, we just don't have a catchy title for it yet. We figured that it would come to us when the scope of the mod become a little more defined. The FoF title was really used just so we could start a thread that wasn't so vague.
We've only talked to each other about this in private messages, but the plan is to have the mod split up into several optional components. Like a component for a Fighter overhaul, Divine magic/Cleric overhaul, Arcane magic/Mage Overhaul, Thief overhaul, p&p HLA/Low Level Ability overhaul, Armor System overhaul, Race Options, etc... There's even going to be an option for people just to use the new icons and nothing else.
If there is a demand for it, we could release the mod into 9 or so mini mods when we get close to an official release.
We've debated the pros and cons of a single beta release or multiple ones, and it seemed to us that keeping it together would be easier and quicker for the beta testing stage. It's a bit of a relay effort, that if we had multiple mods with multiple versions it would be a bit much to juggle. We already encountered a problem where I zipped the wrong version for release which set us back a bit. I could only imagine that being more of a headache with several isolated mods to deal with.
Besides having everything on the table at once makes the creation process a little more streamlined. If I get all the icons I need to create planned out ahead, then I can knock each one down. But in the case of tonight where I have just three icons to work on, the creative process is really slow. Same thing goes with the .spl files, working on all of the similar functioning ones at the same time is quicker than on a case by case basis. Even researching and mapping p&p concepts is easier when done at once. While on the other hand it makes things more fun for us to change gears within the same mod.
But we could at least add some options during the weidu install. I just hope that some of the beta testers will at least test out the different components.
but the plan is to have the mod split up into several optional components. Like a component for a Fighter overhaul, Divine magic/Cleric overhaul, Arcane magic/Mage Overhaul, Thief overhaul, p&p HLA/Low Level Ability overhaul, Armor System overhaul, Race Options, etc... There's even going to be an option for people just to use the new icons and nothing else.
That is what I understood from what I glanced from the replies earlier in this thread.
But we could at least add some options during the weidu install. I just hope that some of the beta testers will at least test out the different components.
Actually, I don't think you have to worry much about it, most beta testers would gladly test out every components for you in a test run, then install only the ones they are interested in a real run. That is, at least, how I do.
I've run through a rough draft of how the innate skills will look like. Going to turn down the glare of the white when I run this through BG:EE but this is just to show the style I'm aiming at. They may end up silver instead.
Originally the idea was to include a mini icon in the corner to signify the type of skill but it just distracted too much from the main icon. So I used a background glow. The categories at the moment are Attack (red), Defense (Blue), Field (Brown), Shapeshifting (Purple) and Creation (Green). With Healing probably being a Necromantic light blue. The BG2 Bhaal icons will probably be gold where the white is with a dark background glow. I think I got all the categories figured out.
I also came up with the idea right now of having icons that change at certain levels. Particularly with p&p HLA skills that automatically level up. You have the 5 levels of Whirlwind shown second row from the bottom and the 4 levels of Hardiness at the lowest row. So as your character grows stronger, the icons will change to reflect that.
Luckily there's only a handful of skills that undergo drastic changes so it doesn't require a whole lot of effort on my part. But it's a nice way of visualizing the changes of a character.
Comments
If you see a priest missing from the list, then that's because it's already in the mod or it didn't have enough 2ed source material. So unfortunately there is only one deity that actively seeks out Half-Orc followers in the list.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1HUcQC-wMWQZ-RJ8FB9p-uLcubS9zYtTcCVYtyphtxR4/viewform
Besides, I can always dual Xzar if i desperately need clerical healing.
Edit: Although I do like the idea of more specialized spells for NPC:s, as the spell list can also represent their personal favourites.
@LordsDarkKnight185 - I fail to see any RP perspective here, playing evil characters shouldn't be more difficult because of less basic healing spell options but because the choices they make bring them dire consequences.
Haven't tested the mod yet since it seems to evolve at quite a pace, I'll give my own feedback soon.
- Healing Clerics:
Ajantis - Helm
Yeslick - Moradin/Clangeddin
- Balanced Clerics:
Branwen - Tempus
Quayle - Baravar Cloakshadow
- Damage Clerics:
Viconia - Shar
Tiax - Cyric
It's looking like Branwen would end up being the best Cleric in the game with this mod.
So we can easily change things around to give the Evil Clerics 'obverse' spells and the Good Cleric having reversed spells.
@Nifft just released an UPX version of Weidu for Mac that greatly reduces its size, available here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fi80q6ubit0qro9/WeiDU-Mac-231-upx.zip
Release comment here:
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/289672/#Comment_289672
Next step is to try and get @subtledoctor's applescript workaround up and running.
So it runs "do shell script "open -a Terminal " & BGpath" fine but then it shuts down before getting to run "do script "./Setup-FOF" in window 1"
As for what I can do with this mod. I can't test anything in game since my version of BG:EE was on the mac. But I can still provide .bam file support from my PC; either fixing broken ones or creating new ones. While implementing whatever I can do from BG2. The hard drive crash isn't such a big deal since I was going to be spending time this week working on the innate skill and HLA .bams. It'll also give me some time to upload some plans of upcoming features to the drop box for feedback.
And as for the voting form, there's a clear consensus starting to form with the Gnome and Halflings kits, the others need some more votes to break the ties that are going on. @requiem has started work on adding a new Specialty Priest and I've picked a priest that has so far the most votes to start work on.
So Far, the heavy armor feels good, with the damage and movement speed reduction, it really feels like you are a walking juggernaut.
Though I think the lighter armors needs a boost of AC compared to heavy armor to compensate. Or reduce the AC bonus of heavy armors.
My opinion ? Being lighter means easier to dodge attacks, which is represented by AC in the game.
Right now, the heavy armor gives more AC AND more damage reduction, which basically means harder to hit, and hurt less when you do. The only thing the light armor gives is that you move at normal speed or almost normal, and you can use your special skills almost to their fullest. Sure, that's good, but how come you are easier to hit than a slow moving heavy plated warrior ? Just my opinion though.
@Jaeldyn We'd love the extra help. At the moment we're getting the plans put together and when they're released you're free to see what you can do. I don't want to be sending you off on a project that may end up getting being revised the next day.
Then I put together a page listing all the viable 2nd edition kits that aren't Specialty Priests, I might have missed some so I left a dialogue box where you could put in suggestions.
And then there is a page where you can direct us to where we should be going in the future. Be it more specialty priests, more spells, etc... Lastly it will ask you for your username so we can know who voted. The old form had a problem with duplicate entries.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1HUcQC-wMWQZ-RJ8FB9p-uLcubS9zYtTcCVYtyphtxR4/viewform
When a kit/specialty priest gets around 10 votes then it will be introduced into the mod.
Did you move the dialog.tlk file from the lang folder, and then move it to the resource folder to launch weidu and then move the dialog.tlk back to the lang folder?
Be sure to keep a copy of your original dialog.tlk set aside just incase things do go wrong.
The increased mobility should help with dodging through moving quickly but I can appreciate your idea of lightly armored people getting hit less as they can dodge more.
My idea is this (not far off what subtledoctor said) firstly lighter armors give a bonus to ac (to simulate dodge chance) so for instance leather and studded leather +4, chain +1, others give -1 or possibly -2 to reflect the fact
that they mamake dodging hard.
Secondly, chain/splint give a -1 pen to dex, and plate and full plate -2.
In this scenario the leather armors will have their damage reduction lowered to perhaps as low as 5% across the board and heavy armours may be increased to perhaps 25% or so to balance things out, depending on feedback.
This should lead to people in highly enchanted light armour taking fewer hits than those in full plate, but taking much more damage when they do, which sounds pretty good to me.
As for dead gods like Amaunator, Bane, Bhaal, Ibrandul, Leira, Moander, Myrkul and Gilgeam with the missing gods of Waukeen and Ulutiu. They may not be active during BG1-2 but some could be active during the events of The Black Pits.
Besides in Faiths and Avatars, it's said that some living gods are masquerading as the dead ones. For example Shar has been appearing as Ibrandul long after his demise to his followers. Then you have Amaunator who in the BG2 universe is sorta not completely dead and lives on in the form of At'ar in the Anauroch region. So you can form a justification that whichever god assumes their portfolio, has also assumed their identity.
We may look into an installation option of denying certain gods but it's just easier not to select them. Besides there's a really good chance that only one or two actually make it into the mod.
On another note, it may be time to separate the different components of the mods at the install so that people can actually choose what to install. I think it is done with the BEGIN command in the setup, just add a BEGIN before each component
We've only talked to each other about this in private messages, but the plan is to have the mod split up into several optional components. Like a component for a Fighter overhaul, Divine magic/Cleric overhaul, Arcane magic/Mage Overhaul, Thief overhaul, p&p HLA/Low Level Ability overhaul, Armor System overhaul, Race Options, etc... There's even going to be an option for people just to use the new icons and nothing else.
If there is a demand for it, we could release the mod into 9 or so mini mods when we get close to an official release.
We've debated the pros and cons of a single beta release or multiple ones, and it seemed to us that keeping it together would be easier and quicker for the beta testing stage. It's a bit of a relay effort, that if we had multiple mods with multiple versions it would be a bit much to juggle. We already encountered a problem where I zipped the wrong version for release which set us back a bit. I could only imagine that being more of a headache with several isolated mods to deal with.
Besides having everything on the table at once makes the creation process a little more streamlined. If I get all the icons I need to create planned out ahead, then I can knock each one down. But in the case of tonight where I have just three icons to work on, the creative process is really slow. Same thing goes with the .spl files, working on all of the similar functioning ones at the same time is quicker than on a case by case basis. Even researching and mapping p&p concepts is easier when done at once. While on the other hand it makes things more fun for us to change gears within the same mod.
But we could at least add some options during the weidu install. I just hope that some of the beta testers will at least test out the different components.
Originally the idea was to include a mini icon in the corner to signify the type of skill but it just distracted too much from the main icon. So I used a background glow. The categories at the moment are Attack (red), Defense (Blue), Field (Brown), Shapeshifting (Purple) and Creation (Green). With Healing probably being a Necromantic light blue. The BG2 Bhaal icons will probably be gold where the white is with a dark background glow. I think I got all the categories figured out.
I also came up with the idea right now of having icons that change at certain levels. Particularly with p&p HLA skills that automatically level up. You have the 5 levels of Whirlwind shown second row from the bottom and the 4 levels of Hardiness at the lowest row. So as your character grows stronger, the icons will change to reflect that.
Luckily there's only a handful of skills that undergo drastic changes so it doesn't require a whole lot of effort on my part. But it's a nice way of visualizing the changes of a character.