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Faiths and Powers: Gods of the Realms (Kitpack and divine caster/spell tweaks)

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Comments

  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,342
    2 things

    Thing the first: I think druids getting the healing/harming sphere-thing would be fine as universal as well as Clerics getting the Divine sphere-thing.

    Thing the second: Do we know how many deities we plan on having as options to worship? Will it be all of the Faerun deities or just the primary/well-known ones?

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 10,701
    As many deities as possible. Grammarsalad is working on that. I expect we will ship with at least a dozen, but we will probably add more, and hopefully we will make the system modular enough that people can add new kits and/or deities into the deity selection system the same way they'll be able to add them to the sphere system.

    Vallmyr
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,433
    edited August 2015
    What about this: evil automatically gets inflict, good heal, neutral heal--or both, but I say heal because neutral clerics turn, not control undead--yet many evil deities grant heal (added normally as sphere spells) and many good/neutral grant inflict? Wouldn't want to restrict all evil druid/mystics from heal, except when it makes sense, of course (though, I'm fine restricting most good from inflict). Sound good?
    Vallmyr said:

    2 things

    Thing the first: I think druids getting the healing/harming sphere-thing would be fine as universal as well as Clerics getting the Divine sphere-thing.

    Thing the second: Do we know how many deities we plan on having as options to worship? Will it be all of the Faerun deities or just the primary/well-known ones?

    I want to cover as many deities as possible, though the first release will have a smallish number. We have a list somewhere. I think it was about 10 to 15 or so. Any requests?

  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,342
    Well, I personally enjoy Kelemvor, Velsharoon, and Kiaransalee because death deities are awesome! Though, could probably cut Kiaransalee since she is Drow-specific and just have Kelemvor as a (lawful) neutral death deity and Velsharoon for evil. One thing I found odd was Velsharoon's followers are listed as LN, NE, and CN. I think this may be a typo as a NE Deity should have LE, NE, and CE followers.

  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,241
    edited August 2015

    Well, I think good players automatically get the healing spells and evil players automatically get the harming spells. And neutrals get both. (Isn't that how the game works?) So Lost Druids could be restricted to neutral evil... they would get the Cause Wounds spells - as well as access to spheres like Death and Dread and Affliction.

    would evil clerics then be able to heal at all?

    in bg2 only holy smite and holy word and their opposites are alignment-exclusive
    in iwd, it's a bit weird...evil clerics have both harming spells and healing spells but only up to cure serious wounds; higher level spells diverge a lot

    i dislike attaching healing/harming properties to alignment because healing or raising an evil ally is an act of evil and vice versa. in pnp there are no such rules as far as i know.

    when you have the sphere system, having spells attached to alignment on top of that would just dilute it. i'd rly stick with divine aid and earth/plant. those seem completely universal. i can't imagine a cleric or a druid that wouldn't cast those (at least as minor spheres; granting them as major to all is a compromise, but a fair one)

  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,433
    Vallmyr said:

    Well, I personally enjoy Kelemvor, Velsharoon, and Kiaransalee because death deities are awesome! Though, could probably cut Kiaransalee since she is Drow-specific and just have Kelemvor as a (lawful) neutral death deity and Velsharoon for evil. One thing I found odd was Velsharoon's followers are listed as LN, NE, and CN. I think this may be a typo as a NE Deity should have LE, NE, and CE followers.

    The first release is going to be in iwdee, though I think for tobex enhanced vanilla as well. We are making use of some of the added goodies in that version (which should be in the bgees come siege). Anyway, those deities--maybe the drow god was--weren't around then. What about Mykrul? (Though those two will make the bgee release)

  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,433
    I need to put a list together of all classes/kits and the gods they can select

  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,433
    edited August 2015
    I'm cross-posting all over the place.

    @bob_veng

    I agree completely. These would just be 'universal' spells to get around a technical issue with character creation. Most all evil deities should be competent healers (with exceptions, of course). All this will mean is that we can restrict some evil clerics from healing, and good (maaaybe neutral) clerics from inflict. As far as I'm concerned, by default, almost all evil priests should be able to heal--it's what is expected of priests, regardless of alignment.

    Edit: as far as 'earth/plant', that is going to be a 'more or less' universal for mystics. Still, it doesn't work if we have 'air elementalists', and so we should be able to restrict it from time to time.

    Think of these particular spells as 'hard universal'. Many others will be 'soft universal' meaning that almost all priests of a given class will have access.

  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,342
    edited August 2015

    Vallmyr said:

    Well, I personally enjoy Kelemvor, Velsharoon, and Kiaransalee because death deities are awesome! Though, could probably cut Kiaransalee since she is Drow-specific and just have Kelemvor as a (lawful) neutral death deity and Velsharoon for evil. One thing I found odd was Velsharoon's followers are listed as LN, NE, and CN. I think this may be a typo as a NE Deity should have LE, NE, and CE followers.

    The first release is going to be in iwdee, though I think for tobex enhanced vanilla as well. We are making use of some of the added goodies in that version (which should be in the bgees come siege). Anyway, those deities--maybe the drow god was--weren't around then. What about Mykrul? (Though those two will make the bgee release)
    Oh yeah, Mrykul would be fine for IWD:EE since the others didn't exist at the time.
    Velsharoon and Kelemvor came into power the same year that Baldur's Gate starts, 1368 DR.

    As for Kiaransalee all I could find was
    "Kiaransalee, was the mortal queen of a world called Threnody at least 30,000 years in the past. She was banished by her husband the king, and worked for centuries to raise an undead army to exact vengeance for this. When she was finally done, all life on her world was extinguished. Fleeing with her minions to the Abyss to escape the wrath of the Seldarine, she eventually became a demigoddess. At some point she was slighted by Orcus, though no one but her remembers the details.

    In later years the goddess Lolth fell into the Abyss as well, capturing Kiaransalee in her twisted web. For millennia, the Lady of the Dead labored under Lolth's spidery shadow as the goddess of undeath and vengeance, capable of only small acts of rebellion."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiaransalee

    Grammarsalad
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,241
    a possible, but perhaps inelegant solution is to create lvl1 cantrips.

    you could have the "cantrip" sphere available to all (with a tiny number of spells, maybe 3), and it would contain some classic useless spells, such as:
    - magic stone (could be renamed to something else to fit the druids better, such as "glimmering stone")
    - know alignment (logical to have it ranked as a cantrip compared to the infinitely more powerful protection from evil - in the context of this game)
    aaand obviously:
    - goodberries

    to differentiate these cantrips from normal lvl1 spells, you could get several uses of the spell with a single casting or something like that.

  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,342
    Doesn't magic stone actually wreck undead hard in IWD:EE?

  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,433
    edited August 2015
    We should continue the discussion about 'universal' spheres, but I also want to submit draft of a sort of overall class layout. This should be considered just a 'first draft', subject to change, but we have to start somewhere.

    Also, note I'm going mostly from memory, and being distracted by my otherwise lovely family...I might miss some details...Also, I haven't received the demihuman deities book yet--will update when I get that.

    Base Class: Cleric
    Abilities: Full armor, full casting, turn/rebuke undead, decent combat ability, d8 HD
    Deity access: Helm, Talos, Lathander, Tempus, Bane, Azuth, Deneir, Oghma, Mystra, Selune, Shar, Tyr, Torm

    Cleric kit: Priest/Archivist
    Abilities: +1 spell/lev, turn/rebuke undead, poor combat, light armor only, lore bonus, expanded magic item use (doable, I think), other research related stuff
    Deity access: Loviatar, Sune, Ilmater, Talona, Talos, Lathander, Mykrul, Azuth, Deneir, Oghma, Mystra, Selune, Shar, Leira, Beshaba, Talona

    Cleric kit: Incarnate/Chosen
    Abilities: +2 spell/lev, turn/rebuke undead, poor combat, no armor, -3 casting speed (they are natural conduits of divine power, chosen by the gods, but are uninitiated and cast in an untrained, unorthodox and clumsy manner), d6 HD
    Deity access: Bane, Loviatar, Sune, Ilmater, Talona, Talos, Lathander, Mykrul, Deneir, Oghma, Mystra, Selune, Shar, Leira, Beshaba, Talona

    Base Class: Mystic (was druid)
    Abilities: Light armor, full casting, decent combat ability, something else(?), d8 HD
    Deity access: Akadi, Malar, Eldath, Chauntea, Grumbar, Istishia, Kossuth, Mielikki, Moander, Shaundakul, Silvanus, Talos, Selune, Mystra, Shar, Beshaba, Talona

    Mystic Kit: Druid
    Abilities: Light armor, full casting, decent combat ability, shapeshift, the usual
    Deity access: Akadi, Malar, Eldath, Chauntea, Grumbar, Istishia, Kossuth, Mielikki, Moander, Shaundakul, Silvanus, Talona. Must have a neutral component to alignment

    (work in those branches somehow--maybe call druids of Silvanus, for example, "Forest Druids"(?) I'll have to get the complete book of druids perhaps...)

    Mystic Kit: Ur-Priest
    Abilities: Light armor, 1 less spell/lev, decent combat ability, Steals spell slots from other casters (I think this is more or less doable), Access to almost all spheres (steals magic from the gods through the use of forbidden rituals). Non-good only
    Deity access: None, despises the gods.

    Mystic Kit: Elementalist
    Abilities: Light armor, +1 spell/lev, decent combat ability, spells of a particular element especially potent.
    Deity access: Akadi, Eldath, Chauntea, Grumbar, Istishia, Kossuth, Shaundakul

    Mystic Kit: Alienist
    Abilities: Light armor, decent combat ability
    Deity access: Does not select a deity per se, but selects from a number of 'interests' that control sphere access and special abilities. Two examples: Oozemaster (abilities/spheres having to do with puddings and oozes) and Hivemaster (insects).

    Yeah, going to have to get the druid handbook to see where different druid archtypes can fit (either as worshipers of specific gods, or as mystic kits of their own).

    Anyway, want to get this into the wild now. Wife wants attention...

    EDIT: Will add Champion (Paladin) later...

    subtledoctorJuliusBorisov
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,433
    bob_veng said:

    a possible, but perhaps inelegant solution is to create lvl1 cantrips.

    you could have the "cantrip" sphere available to all (with a tiny number of spells, maybe 3), and it would contain some classic useless spells, such as:
    - magic stone (could be renamed to something else to fit the druids better, such as "glimmering stone")
    - know alignment (logical to have it ranked as a cantrip compared to the infinitely more powerful protection from evil - in the context of this game)
    aaand obviously:
    - goodberries

    to differentiate these cantrips from normal lvl1 spells, you could get several uses of the spell with a single casting or something like that.

    The problem with this is that we need at least one spell for each level. A cleric created in Thone of Bhaal will select spells for each of the 7 levels.

    ...also, I'm thinking about creating Orisons, which are cleric cantrips (see subtledoctor's SoB mod to get an idea).

  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,433
    edited August 2015
    Did a slight update, and I wanted this to be my last post for the evening, so...

    We should continue the discussion about 'universal' spheres, but I also want to submit draft of a sort of overall class layout. This should be considered just a 'first draft', subject to change, but we have to start somewhere.

    Also, note I'm going mostly from memory, and being distracted by my otherwise lovely family...I might miss some details...Also, I haven't received the demihuman deities book yet--will update when I get that.

    Base Class: Cleric
    Abilities: Full armor, full casting, turn/rebuke undead, decent combat ability, d8 HD
    Deity access: Helm, Talos, Lathander, Tempus, Bane, Azuth, Deneir, Oghma, Mystra, Selune, Shar, Tyr, Torm

    Cleric kit: Priest/Archivist
    Abilities: +1 spell/lev, turn/rebuke undead, poor combat, light armor only, lore bonus, expanded magic item use (doable, I think), other research related stuff
    Deity access: Loviatar, Sune, Ilmater, Talona, Talos, Lathander, Mykrul, Azuth, Deneir, Oghma, Mystra, Selune, Shar, Leira, Beshaba, Talona

    Cleric kit: Incarnate/Chosen
    Abilities: +2 spell/lev, turn/rebuke undead, poor combat, no armor, -3 casting speed (they are natural conduits of divine power, chosen by the gods, but are uninitiated and cast in an untrained, unorthodox and clumsy manner), d6 HD
    Deity access: Bane, Loviatar, Sune, Ilmater, Talona, Talos, Lathander, Mykrul, Deneir, Oghma, Mystra, Selune, Shar, Leira, Beshaba, Talona

    Base Class: Mystic (was druid)
    Abilities: Light armor, full casting, decent combat ability, something else(?), d8 HD
    Deity access: Akadi, Malar, Eldath, Chauntea, Grumbar, Istishia, Kossuth, Mielikki, Moander, Shaundakul, Silvanus, Talos, Selune, Mystra, Shar, Beshaba, Talona

    Mystic Kit: Druid
    Abilities: Light armor, full casting, decent combat ability, shapeshift, the usual
    Deity access: Akadi, Malar, Eldath, Chauntea, Grumbar, Istishia, Kossuth, Mielikki, Moander, Shaundakul, Silvanus, Talona. Must have a neutral component to alignment

    (work in those branches somehow--maybe call druids of Silvanus, for example, "Forest Druids"(?) I'll have to get the complete book of druids perhaps...)

    Mystic Kit: Ur-Priest
    Abilities: Light armor, 1 less spell/lev, decent combat ability, Steals spell slots from other casters (I think this is more or less doable), Access to almost all spheres (steals magic from the gods through the use of forbidden rituals). Non-good only
    Deity access: None, despises the gods.

    Mystic Kit: Elementalist
    Abilities: Light armor, +1 spell/lev, decent combat ability, spells of a particular element especially potent.
    Deity access: Akadi, Eldath, Chauntea, Grumbar, Istishia, Kossuth, Shaundakul

    Mystic Kit: Alienist
    Abilities: Light armor, decent combat ability
    Deity access: Does not select a deity per se, but selects from a number of 'interests' that control sphere access and special abilities. Two examples: Oozemaster (abilities/spheres having to do with puddings and oozes) and Hivemaster (insects).

    Yeah, going to have to get the druid handbook to see where different druid archtypes can fit (either as worshipers of specific gods, or as mystic kits of their own).

    Anyway, want to get this into the wild now. Wife wants attention...

    EDIT: Will add Champion (Paladin) later...

    JuliusBorisov
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 10,701
    So yeah there's actually a whole separate flag, the good-vs.-evil flag, that we haven't even looked at.

    Just to be clear, I am proposing that the sphere of healing be universal for everyone, cleric and druid. Healing, restoration, even resurrection... the rule would be, all that is the basic stuff that priests do, and then everything beyond that differs by deity and kit.

    (Yes, that means Lost Druids would probably (probably) be able to heal, which is maybe not perfectly in line with the 2e PnP rules... but I said way up in the second post, we are not hewing to PnP rules here, we are adapting to the particular environment of this very inflexible game engine.)

    That's proposal #1: major access to healing for every divine class and kit in the game.

    The alternative is to have all clerics get major access to Divine Aid. Some mystics & druids should not get access to Divine Aid, so we need something else. Some of the more typical druid-y things won't work: Fire Mystics might not have access to Earth, plant-focused druids might not have full access to Storm, animalistic druids might not have access to Plant, etc. etc.

    But: I think Vigor could work. Slow Poison, Cure Disease, Free Action, Regeneration... I think every mystic and druid and ranger might have hese kinds of powers.

    So I think those are the two choices.
    1) Everyone has full access to Healing
    2) All clerics get Divine Aid, all others get Vigor.

  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 4,712


    Mystic Kit: Druid
    Abilities: Light armor, full casting, decent combat ability, shapeshift, the usual
    Deity access: Akadi, Malar, Eldath, Chauntea, Grumbar, Istishia, Kossuth, Mielikki, Moander, Shaundakul, Silvanus, Talona. Must have a neutral component to alignment

    (work in those branches somehow--maybe call druids of Silvanus, for example, "Forest Druids"(?) I'll have to get the complete book of druids perhaps...)

    The thought of implementing Druids of Silvanus as the Forest Druid branche sounds awesome! This would get my pudding seal of approval. :)

    Following that formular would also be rather simple;

    Druids of Ghaunadaur (BG saga)/ Moander (IWD) = the Gray Druid branche
    Druids of Ubtao / Thard Harr = the Jungle Druid branche
    Druids of Ulutiu / Auril = the Arctic Druid branche
    Druids of Grumbar / Geb = the Mountain Druid branche
    Druids of Talona / Sebek = the Swamp Druid branche
    Druids of Nobanion / Malar = the Plains Druid branche
    Druids of Kossuth / Set = the Desert Druid branche

    Grammarsalad
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,433
    edited August 2015


    Mystic Kit: Druid
    Abilities: Light armor, full casting, decent combat ability, shapeshift, the usual
    Deity access: Akadi, Malar, Eldath, Chauntea, Grumbar, Istishia, Kossuth, Mielikki, Moander, Shaundakul, Silvanus, Talona. Must have a neutral component to alignment

    (work in those branches somehow--maybe call druids of Silvanus, for example, "Forest Druids"(?) I'll have to get the complete book of druids perhaps...)

    The thought of implementing Druids of Silvanus as the Forest Druid branche sounds awesome! This would get my pudding seal of approval. :)

    Following that formular would also be rather simple;

    Druids of Ghaunadaur (BG saga)/ Moander (IWD) = the Gray Druid branche
    Druids of Ubtao / Thard Harr = the Jungle Druid branche
    Druids of Ulutiu / Auril = the Arctic Druid branche
    Druids of Grumbar / Geb = the Mountain Druid branche
    Druids of Talona / Sebek = the Swamp Druid branche
    Druids of Nobanion / Malar = the Plains Druid branche
    Druids of Kossuth / Set = the Desert Druid branche
    Excellent. I'll get the book and replicate the abilities

    Edit: I see some Egyptian gods in there. A very interesting myth.

  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 4,712
    That would be the Mulhorandi pantheon. Not only are they active in Mulhorand, but are also worshiped in Thay, Unther, Chessenta and other parts of Faerûn. The most well known Mulan deity outside of their homeland is probably Bast/Sharess.

    Grammarsalad
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,433

    So yeah there's actually a whole separate flag, the good-vs.-evil flag, that we haven't even looked at.

    Just to be clear, I am proposing that the sphere of healing be universal for everyone, cleric and druid. Healing, restoration, even resurrection... the rule would be, all that is the basic stuff that priests do, and then everything beyond that differs by deity and kit.

    (Yes, that means Lost Druids would probably (probably) be able to heal, which is maybe not perfectly in line with the 2e PnP rules... but I said way up in the second post, we are not hewing to PnP rules here, we are adapting to the particular environment of this very inflexible game engine.)

    That's proposal #1: major access to healing for every divine class and kit in the game.

    The alternative is to have all clerics get major access to Divine Aid. Some mystics & druids should not get access to Divine Aid, so we need something else. Some of the more typical druid-y things won't work: Fire Mystics might not have access to Earth, plant-focused druids might not have full access to Storm, animalistic druids might not have access to Plant, etc. etc.

    But: I think Vigor could work. Slow Poison, Cure Disease, Free Action, Regeneration... I think every mystic and druid and ranger might have hese kinds of powers.

    So I think those are the two choices.
    1) Everyone has full access to Healing
    2) All clerics get Divine Aid, all others get Vigor.

    I like option 2

  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,433
    edited August 2015
    Okay, I have created a paladin kit, a 'champion of talos', added it via script to a regular paladin and...it doesn't fall! I keep killing Pomad, reducing my reputation to 7, but he keeps his abilities, title, etc. I don't even know why--well, I didn't set them to fall, but I thought that that was hardcoded--not in BGEE I suppose! Anyway, it looks like champions of evil will be easily implemented in the EE games. The only issue is that when the character is first created, the player cannot do anything to make themselves fall before selecting their deity. The base paladin, as far as I can tell, is still hardcoded.

    As for vanilla, I strongly suspect that the only options will be to disallow any reduction of reputation below 9, and adjust reputation penalties accordingly, or do some other trickery such as change the class to cleric.

    Edit: Just killed Quimby to be absolutely sure. Reduced my rep to 4, and Talos is still smiling on me

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 10,701
    edited August 2015
    Yeah. We might just have to omit non-good paladins from the pre-EE version of the mod. That's not the end of the world, it will still have tons of great stuff.

    In the next few days, in the next alpha build, I'll switch the mystic/druid universal sphere to Vigor unless too many people object in this thread. And I'll add in sphere access for druid kits as well as paladins and rangers. And then get to work on spell description editing.

    All of the level changes and wizard spell conversions are being done in Weidu, so the big spell 'to-do' checklist on the first page should be about 75% done already. :smiley:

    Another thing we might do, probably for some varieties of Mystics and/or Incarnates, is allow them to cast certain spells as if they were one level lower. So, e.g. fire mystics following Kossuth might be able to cast Flame Blade as a 1st-level spell, and Produce Fire as a 3rd-level spell, and Firestorm as a 6th-level spell. That is obviously very powerful... the balancing mechanism will probably be even-more-reduced sphere access. Maybe major access to only 3-4 spheres, minor access to maybe 6-8. To a hammer every problem looks like a nail, and to a Firewalker, every problem looks like a match! :wink:

    Post edited by subtledoctor on
    Grammarsalad
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,433
    I'll be focusing on getting the base class, kit, and deity selection system ready. Then I'll start plugging away at this deity and sub/hidden kits!

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 10,701
    edited September 2015
    So, Grammarsalad is designing the various kits and subkits, but I want to throw out some thoughts I've had after re-reading the first post. (By the way everyone, we have both been updating the early posts in this thread, so if you haven't read the first couple posts in a while, go back and take a look!)

    One thing that struck me is the similarity between Mystics and Druids. Both can wear light armor, same HD, same thac0, etc. So here's a way to differentiate them: really focus druids on shapeshifting. Give each druid subkit 4+ forms to use, and let those abilities take the place of spellcasting. We can definitely try to add forms that are not just good for melee - like my latest SoB update has a rat form that lets the druid sneak around. A spider form could throw webs, a snake form could spit poison, a wyvern form could have a natural Zone of Sweet Air (big flapping wings), salamander/elemental forms could have elemental damage auras, etc. etc. etc.

    Mystics, for their part, could get +1 spell/level to cast instead of the innate shapeshifts.

    Also, we could give Mystics the ability I mentioned above, casting spells of one sphere as if they were lower-level, in exchange for access to fewer spheres. More spellcasting and more powerful spells in exchange for fewer known spells... this makes Mystics sort of the Sorcerer of the divine classes. And it makes them a nice counterpoint to Ur-priests, who would get broader sphere access but would lack the bonus spells.

    So they would look like:

    Mystic
    - cast +1 spell per level
    - stronger spells in one sphere of focus
    - fewer known spells
    - (maybe also melee bonuses? So light armor and weapon mastery with a light weapon, a glass cannon to contrast with tanky clerics?)

    Druid
    - normal spellcasting
    - normal sphere access
    - shapechanging abilities

    Ur-Priest
    - normal spellcasting
    - tons of known spells

    Other random thoughts:

    1) I love the idea of a demon mystic

    2) The Totemic Druid doesn't fit into these paradigms. Maybe tear that kit apart and use the summoning abilities for other kits, maybe Mystics. Or maybe wait and see what the Shaman looks like and use Totemic summonses for Shaman expansion.

    GrammarsaladJuliusBorisov
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 4,712
    edited September 2015

    Mystic Kit: Diabolist/Demonologist An idea: makes a pact with a major demon or devil lord. Gains specific abilities depending on the demon or devil selected. Alternatively, perhaps gains power from the lower planes in some other fashion. I see these guys getting an evil familiar.

    Other random thoughts:

    1) I love the idea of a demon mystic

    A Demonologist of sorts who specializes in summoning Tanar'ri and has a Quasit familar could indeed be fun to roleplay. This however may be too similar to the Alienist with her pseudo-natural/aberration/alien pets.

    Other random fiendish PrC's which could be turned into kits:
    - Diabolist (Baatezu centered, perhaps kind of Warlock-ish. Wants to become a devil).
    - Thralls of Demon Lords (Graz'zt, Orcus, Juiblex, Demogorgon, ect.)
    - Disciple of Asmodeus (or any other Archdevil of the Nine Hells for that matter)
    - Nar Demonbinder (preserver of the sinister traditions of Narfell. Candlekeep may hold some handy books on the subject.)


    Edit:
    Quoted first post as well for better keeping up with things.

    Post edited by Kamigoroshi on
    GrammarsaladJuliusBorisov
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 10,701
    edited September 2015
    I know I'm dumping a ton of unrelated thoughts into the thread, but I want to get these ideas out. I just now realized that in addition to the extra IWDEE priest spells, we have a bunch of IWDEE wizard spells available to us. With some of those, I think I can split the Storm sphere in two giving a proper water/ice sphere and an air/lightning sphere.

    Additionally right now I have plant-based spells in the Earth sphere (because plants grow from the earth) which is very strong. With a couple new spells (including lesser and greater versions of Stoneskin, which I'll talk about later) we might be able to split it into two weaker spheres: elemental Earth and Plant. That would get is up to 20 spheres total, including a Plant sphere and all 4 elements. The downside is, Earth and Plant are pretty weak. An alternative is to keep those two together, for 19 spheres total.

    With 20 spheres, the changed ones would look like this:

    13) PLANT:
    1. entangle
    1. goodberries
    2. barkskin
    3. spike growth
    4. thorn spray
    5. call woodland being
    6. stalker (one shambling mound)
    7. stalkers (two shambling mounds)

    14) EARTH:
    1. magic stone
    2. grounding (protection from lightning)
    3. lesser stone skins
    4. spike stones
    5. greater stone skins
    6. conjure earth elemental
    7. earthquake

    15) AIR:
    1. shocking grasp
    1. zone of sweet air
    2. stinking cloud
    3. cloudburst
    3. storm shell
    4. call lightning
    5. static charge
    5. whirlwind
    6. chain lightning
    6. entropy shield
    7. mist of eldath
    7. death fog (??)

    16) WATER:
    1. snowball swarm
    2. acid arrow
    3. icelance
    4. vitriolic sphere
    4. smashing wave
    5. ice storm
    5. cone of cold
    6. conjure water elemental
    7. acid storm

    17) FIRE:
    1. burning hands
    2. flame sword
    2. (agannazzar's) scorcher
    2. resist fire/cold
    3. flame arrow
    3. protection from fire
    4. produce fire
    5. flame strike
    6. conjure fire elemental
    6. fire seeds
    7. firestorm


    EDIT - okay, 20 it is. I've updated the lists at the top of the thread.

    Post edited by subtledoctor on
    GrammarsaladJuliusBorisov
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,433
    edited September 2015
    Excellent! I'm all for more spheres. It'll help better differentiate deity kits.

    I'll try to put something together shortly incorporating recent feedback. At work, but it's slow.

    Edit:


    ...
    6. stalker (one shambling mound)
    7. stalkers (two shambling mounds)

    We should think of a good name for these

  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,433
    edited September 2015
    Updated:

    Base Class: Cleric
    Abilities: 
    - Full armor (I'm thinking of downgrading this to chain armor?)
    - Full casting
    - Turn/rebuke undead
    - Medium/High THAC0 (i.e. better than cleric, but not fighter level)
    - D8 HD
    - 'Simple Weapon Proficiency' (can put a point into spears, short swords, daggers, short bows and crossbows in addition to the standard blunt weapons)
    - Select Deity: Gains the following bonuses, the specifics of which vary by selected deity:
    *Can specialize in deities' favored weapon.
    *Sphere access: Average access: 12 spheres, major access to ~6
    *Various granted powers as they level up
    Deity access: Helm, Talos, Lathander, Tempus, Bane, Azuth, Deneir, Oghma, Mystra, Selune, Shar, Tyr, Torm
    Cleric kit: Priest/Archivist
    Abilities: 
    - Light armor (studded leather max)
    - Devoted Servant: +1 spell/Lev
    - Lore: 8/lev
    - Magic Item Use
    - Turn/rebuke undead
    - Wizard THAC0
    - D6 HD
    - 'Simple Weapon Proficiency' (can put points into spears, short swords, daggers, short bows and crossbows in addition to the standard blunt weapons)
    - Select Deity: Gains the following bonuses, the specifics of which vary by selected deity:
    *Does not gain specialization/mastery, but some can become proficient in otherwise prohibited weapons.
    *Sphere access: Average access: 12 spheres, major access to ~6 (as Cleric)
    *Various granted powers as they level up (as Cleric)
    Deity access: Loviatar, Sune, Ilmater, Talona, Talos, Lathander, Mykrul, Azuth, Deneir, Oghma, Mystra, Selune, Shar, Leira, Beshaba, Talona

    Cleric kit: Incarnate/Chosen
    Abilities: 
    - No Armor
    - Divine Savant: +2 spells/level, Casting level +2
    - Unpracticed Caster: - 3 casting speed
    - Turn/rebuke undead
    - Wizard THAC0
    - D6 HD
    - 'Simple Weapon Proficiency' (can put points into spears, short swords, daggers, short bows and crossbows in addition to the standard blunt weapons)
    - Select Deity: Gains the following bonuses, the specifics of which vary by selected deity:
    *Does not gain specialization/mastery, nor access to any additional weapon training.
    *Sphere access: Average access: 12 spheres, major access to ~6 (as Cleric)
    *Various granted powers as they level up (as Cleric)
    Deity access: Bane, Loviatar, Sune, Ilmater, Talona, Talos, Lathander, Mykrul, Deneir, Oghma, Mystra, Selune, Shar, Leira, Beshaba, Talona
    Base Class: Mystic (was druid)
    Abilities: 
    - Light Armor
    - +1 spells/level (Compared to Cleric)
    - Does not Turn/rebuke undead
    - Medium THAC0 (i.e. No change)
    - D8 HD
    - 'Simple Weapon Proficiency' (can put points into spears, short swords, daggers, short bows and crossbows in addition to the standard blunt weapons)
    - Select Deity: Gains the following bonuses, the specifics of which vary by selected deity:
    *Can gain Mastery in deities' favored weapon
    *Sphere access: Low access: 10 spheres, major access to ~5
    *Sphere Focus: Gains early access to one of their available (Major access) spheres
    *Various granted powers as they level up
    Deity access: Akadi, Malar, Eldath, Chauntea, Grumbar, Istishia, Kossuth, Mielikki, Moander, Shaundakul, Silvanus, Talos, Selune, Mystra, Shar, Beshaba, Talona

    (If the elementalist materializes as a separate kit, the various elemental lords may be removed from this and the druid kit to be exclusive to that kit.)
    Mystic Kit: Druid
    Abilities: 
    - Light Armor
    - Full Casting (i.e. as Cleric), so -1/level compared to Mystic
    - Medium THAC0 (i.e. No change)
    - D8 HD
    - 'Simple Weapon Proficiency' (can put points into spears, short swords, daggers, short bows and crossbows in addition to the standard blunt weapons)
    - Select Deity: Gains the following bonuses, the specifics of which vary by selected deity:
    *Can gain Mastery in deities' favored weapon
    *Sphere access: Average access: 12 spheres, major access to ~6 (as Cleric)
    *Sphere Focus: Gains early access to one of their available (Major access) spheres
    *Various granted powers as they level up
    *Shape Shift. Specifics vary by Deity
    Deity access: Auril, Akadi, Malar, Eldath, Chauntea, Grumbar, Istishia, Kossuth, Mielikki, Moander, Shaundakul, Silvanus, Talona.

    Restrictions: Must have a neutral component to alignment

    (SoB has done a lot of great work on druids, and the plan is to incorporate that work into this one. For example, standard Forest Druids of Silvanus will shape shift into wolf, rat etc as in that mod. Druids of Malar--at least one sect--will be SoB's lycanthropic druids, and so on.)

    Mystic Kit: Ur-Priest
    Abilities: 
    - Light Armor
    - Full Casting (i.e. as Cleric), so -1/level compared to Mystic
    - Medium THAC0 (i.e. No change)
    - D8 HD
    - 'Simple Weapon Proficiency' (can put points into spears, short swords, daggers, short bows and crossbows in addition to the standard blunt weapons)
    - Sphere Access: High Access: Maximum access possible within the constraints of the engine. SPECIFICS TO BE DETERMINED.
    - Steal Spells: Drain spells from other casters to replenish their own slots. Ability improves with level (and will hopefully be useful enough to compensate, with expanded spell access, for missing granted abilities).
    Deity access: None, despises the gods.
    Abilities: Light armor, 1 less spell/lev, decent combat ability, Steals spell slots from other casters (I think this is more or less doable), Access to almost all spheres (steals magic from the gods through the use of forbidden rituals). Non-good only

    Mystic Kit: Elementalist
    Abilities: 
    - Light Armor
    - (as Mystic), so +1 spells/level compared to Cleric
    - Medium THAC0 (i.e. No change)
    - D8 HD
    - 'Simple Weapon Proficiency' (can put points into spears, short swords, daggers, short bows and crossbows in addition to the standard blunt weapons)
    - Select Deity: Gains the following bonuses, the specifics of which vary by selected deity:
    *Gains Mastery with deity's favored weapon
    *Sphere access: Very Low Access: 8 spheres, major access to ~4.
    *Sphere Focus: Gains early access to one of their available (Major access) spheres
    *Various granted powers as they level up
    *Shape Shift: Elemental Forms (water forms will require Extended Animations mod)
    Deity access: Akadi, Eldath, Chauntea, Grumbar, Istishia, Kossuth, Shaundakul

    Mystic Kit: Alienist
    Abilities: 
    - Light Armor
    - Full Casting (i.e. as Cleric), so -1/level compared to Mystic
    - Medium THAC0 (i.e. No change)
    - D8 HD
    - 'Simple Weapon Proficiency' (can put points into spears, short swords, daggers, short bows and crossbows in addition to the standard blunt weapons)
    - Focus:
    *Sphere access: Low access: 10 spheres, major access to ~5 (As Mystic)
    *Unique Sphere(?): Gains spells related to their obsession that are not generally available to other practitioners.
    *Gains various powers related to their focus as they level up
    Deity access: Does not select a deity per se, but selects from a number of 'interests' that control sphere access and special abilities. Two examples: Oozemaster (abilities/spheres having to do with puddings and oozes) and Hivemaster (insects).

    (Pehaps this can be folded into another kit, like the druid, mystic or diabolist. (maybe some obsess over oozes, and others with demons? Both are utterly alien, right?) Another crazy idea: A pudding familiar would be fun, no?

    Also, some of these might make better Shaman kits. We'll see
    Mystic Kit: Demonologist/Diabolist
    ...

    Out of time. Will work on this and champions next chance I get.

    KamigoroshiJuliusBorisov
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 10,701
    edited September 2015
    That all looks awesome.


    ...
    6. stalker (one shambling mound)
    7. stalkers (two shambling mounds)

    We should think of a good name for these
    Or think of some better spells! This Plant sphere is really, really thin. Taking away one of the two shambling mounds in the Stalker spell to make a 6th level spell is *spectacularly* uncreative of me. (Though honestly it would probably work pretty well as far as gameplay.) Almost all of the major-access spells there are just summonses. Surely we can think of a cool plant-based spell or two to fill it out.

    By the way, an elementalist kit, with major access to all four elemental spheres? That guy would totally wreck shop. There are some extremely destructive spells up there.

    Off topic, I've run into a potential major issue with multiclass priests in the sphere system, especially ranger/clerics. (Basically, spell doubling. Take a moment to think about how the spheres work, and you can see how any overlap will cause headaches.) But I'm testing a brilliant and elegant solution. Will advise as I find out more. EDIT - hmm, in testing both R/C multi and R->C dual, this doesn't seem to be a problem. Sweet! We press onward, then.

  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,433
    edited September 2015

    That all looks awesome.


    ...
    6. stalker (one shambling mound)
    7. stalkers (two shambling mounds)

    We should think of a good name for these
    Or think of some better spells! This Plant sphere is really, really thin. Taking away one of the two shambling mounds in the Stalker spell to make a 6th level spell is *spectacularly* uncreative of me. (Though honestly it would probably work pretty well as far as gameplay.) Almost all of the major-access spells there are just summonses. Surely we can think of a cool plant-based spell or two to fill it out.

    By the way, an elementalist kit, with major access to all four elemental spheres? That guy would totally wreck shop. There are some extremely destructive spells up there.

    Off topic, I've run into a potential major issue with multiclass priests in the sphere system, especially ranger/clerics. (Basically, spell doubling. Take a moment to think about how the spheres work, and you can see how any overlap will cause headaches.) But I'm testing a brilliant and elegant solution. Will advise as I find out more.
    I'll look up some plant based spells from different sources. I do love to create spells!

    For the elementalist, I was thinking of four basic subkits, each of which gets major access to a single elemental sphere, and minor access to two others (ie the ones not in opposition to the chosen element). So, eg, earth elementalists have no access to air/storm

    Edit: though, if they get improved access to their chosen sphere, that might merit major access to the other two--they will be superior in their chosen element, and its in theme. Maybe full access to all elemental spells would be okay, really. I think they would function more like a sorcerer than a priest with the limited healing...

    Actually, maybe this would be a good shaman kit?

  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,433

    ...
    Off topic, I've run into a potential major issue with multiclass priests in the sphere system, especially ranger/clerics. (Basically, spell doubling. Take a moment to think about how the spheres work, and you can see how any overlap will cause headaches.) But I'm testing a brilliant and elegant solution. Will advise as I find out more. EDIT - hmm, in testing both R/C multi and R->C dual, this doesn't seem to be a problem. Sweet! We press onward, then.

    I missed this, but it looks like it's no longer an issue. Cool

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