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Faiths and Powers: Gods of the Realms (Kitpack and divine caster/spell tweaks)

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Comments

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 10,714
    Another question, mostly for @Grammarsalad: I've figured out that we do not need to have the class name and the first kit in the list be the same. So where the plan *has been* to list archetypes like so:
    - Cleric
    --- Cleric
    --- Priest
    --- Incarnate
    - Mystic
    --- Mystic
    --- Druid
    --- Alienist
    --- Ur-priest
    ...now I realize we can do this:
    - Priest
    --- Cleric
    --- Specialty Priest
    --- Incarnate
    - ______
    --- Mystic
    --- Druid
    --- Alienist
    --- Ur-priest
    Once again it's a 'fill-in-the-blank' question. What to call the overall class category for our kits who find sources of magical power not granted by deities?

  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 4,718
    Medium? Occultist? Theurge? Spiritualist? Seeker? Acolyte? Adept? Apostle? Scholar? Shaper? Keeper? Researcher? Astrologer? ... I give up.

    subtledoctor
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 10,714

    Another question is, what would be a Gray/Cave Druid's spirit summon? I think it should be either a Spirit Snake, or we should make up a reason why that kit doesn't have one.

    Thoughts?

    How about a Spirit Boring Beetle? Or a Bonebat (they're in Siege of Dragonspear)?
    Problem is I'm being lazy: the "spirit summons" are just the Totemic Druid abilities, repurposed. I wouldn't know how to make a "spirit beetle" spell. It would need 5 different custom .CREs, with an animation that isn't currently in BG2, modified to look "spirit-y" (sort of blurred, I think).

    To include this kit with the initial release we'll have to a) use one of the existing wolf/bear/snake/lion abilities, or b) not have a spirit summons, or c) figure out some other way to use existing in-game resources. (Or Grammarsalad could come up with something miraculous - you said you like making spells! - but my understanding is that summonses are a big pain in the neck to make, even more so than shapeshifts.)

    Weren't spiders already setteld for the Jungle Druid? I'm still thinking beetle and carrion crawler is the way to go here. The more unique from the surface druids, the better.

    Well, as far as very small stealthy forms, there are only so many. I figure the small spider works for an underground druid. Whereas, the Jungle Druid has a giant spider/sword spider form, and a little rodent form for stealth. On the other hand, frankly maybe spiders aren't appropriate for the jungle. Maybe the Jungle druid should be rodent + panther + wyvern.

    Carrion crawler is a cool idea. Carrion crawler + otyugh + arachnid, that's definitely more exotic than your wolf and bear and rabbit!

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 10,714
    edited October 2015
    Added 2 more:

    JUNGLE DRUID:
    Jungle Druids occupy dangerous lands where life forms crowd each other and compete viciously for resources. They take what some consider an unhealthy interest in the biological forms of warfare in which jungle-dwelling animals specialize: toxins and disease. The Jungle druid also practices the magic of deception to gain tactical advantages in an environment where a single sting can mean the end of one's life.

    Abilities:
    - Major access to the following spheres: Life, Vigor, Affliction, Animal, Plant, Deception.
    - Minor access to the following spheres: Knowledge, Thought, Earth, Air, Water, Fire.
    - At 1st level, may summon a Spirit Snake. The HD of the spirit animal increases to match the druid's level at 3rd, 5th, 7th and 10th level.
    - At 2nd level, may shapeshift into the form of a panther.
    - At 5th level, may shapeshift into the form of a spider.
    - At 9th level, may shapeshift into the form of a wyvern.

    PANTHER: In wolf form the druid can attack 1.5 times per round for 2d3 slashing damage. If the target fails a save vs. death, the ragged wound is particularly savage, causing another 2 points of damage per round for 3 rounds.

    SPIDER: In spider form the druid is initially hidden from view. He can attack once per round, causing 1d2 damage; if the target fails a save vs. death, the wound injects poison into the victim which causes 1 point of damage every 3 seconds for 3 rounds.

    WYVERN: In wyvern form, the druid is immune to entanglement and webs. He can attack twice per round with claws that cause 2d4 slashing damage; if the target fails a save vs. death, the wound injects poison into the victim which causes 1 point of damage every 2 seconds for 3 rounds.


    ARCTIC DRUID:
    Even in the frozen tundra, life persists. Arctic druids revel in the harsh but balanced wilds in which the cold is every creature's most dangerous predator. They revel in arctic storms and learn to manipulate the forces of water and air that cause them. Through seclusion and training, they learn the importance of perserverance and determination in the face of privation and seeming hopelessness. This makes Arctic druids quite dangerous foes to those who would offend nature in the frozen north.

    Abilities:
    - Major access to the following spheres: Life, Vigor, Animal, Water, Air, Light.
    - Minor access to the following spheres: Knowledge, Thought, Affliction, Plant, Earth, Fire.
    - At 1st level, may summon a Spirit Bear. The HD of the spirit animal increases to match the druid's level at 3rd, 5th, 7th and 10th level.
    - At 2nd level, may shapeshift into the form of a winter wolf.
    - At 5th level, may shapeshift into the form of a hare.
    - At 9th level, may shapeshift into the form of a polar bear.

    WINTER WOLF: In wolf form the druid can attack 1.5 times per round for 2d3 slashing damage. Once per round, the druid may also project frost breath at a nearby foe, causing up to 1d12 points of cold damage.

    HARE: In hare form the druid is initially hidden from view. He can attack once per round, causing 1d2 damage; if the target fails a save vs. death, the wound causes disease that saps the targets strength for one turn, and distraction that causes a 10% chance of spell failure.

    POLAR BEAR: In bear form, the Druid has 21 strength. He can attack twice per round with claws that cause 1d6 crushing damage and 1d6 slashing damage.


    I need to set up the basilisk .cre for the last desert druid shapechange before I add it. Then I'll turn to Mystics. (I'm getting kind of burnt out on shapechange abilities, time to deal with some simpler kits.)

    Speaking of Mystics, here's my thought on them: let's keep them simple. I'm thinking
    - Reduced sphere access: 1 focus, ~4 major, ~4 minor
    - Extra spellcasting: +1 spells per level
    - Faster casting: -1 to casting time (or so)
    - Dervishes: light armor, light weapons, specialization in dual-wielding
    - Magical melee: chance for on-hit effect with every melee strike (fire damage for fire mystics, knockback for air mystics, short-duration blindness for light mystics, etc.

    Post edited by subtledoctor on
    KamigoroshiJuliusBorisov
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,433

    Another question, mostly for @Grammarsalad: I've figured out that we do not need to have the class name and the first kit in the list be the same. So where the plan *has been* to list archetypes like so:

    - Cleric
    --- Cleric
    --- Priest
    --- Incarnate
    - Mystic
    --- Mystic
    --- Druid
    --- Alienist
    --- Ur-priest
    ...now I realize we can do this:
    - Priest
    --- Cleric
    --- Specialty Priest
    --- Incarnate
    - ______
    --- Mystic
    --- Druid
    --- Alienist
    --- Ur-priest
    Once again it's a 'fill-in-the-blank' question. What to call the overall class category for our kits who find sources of magical power not granted by deities?
    "Priest" is probably more generic than "cleric". But one thing. when I think " priest "I think " cloister", probably because my wife is Catholic. Well, not the ones locked away in the monistary, but the guys at the podium. Maybe that's just me.

    As for the other, I kinda like adept, occultist, or even witch, though, think i still prefer mystic.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 10,714

    "Priest" is probably more generic than "cleric". But one thing. when I think " priest "I think " cloister", probably because my wife is Catholic. Well, not the ones locked away in the monistary, but the guys at the podium. Maybe that's just me.

    As for the other, I kinda like adept, occultist, or even witch, though, think i still prefer mystic.

    Agreed. "Occultist" is pretty good, but not as good as Mystic. Actually Occultist would work for the 3rd archetype there, and maybe "Alienist" could simply be a particular subkit of Occultists.

    I actually like "Acolyte" for specialty priests, it connotes unusual devotion to/within a sect. So how about:
    - Cleric
    --- Cleric
    --- Acolyte
    --- Incarnate
    - Mystic
    --- Mystic
    --- Druid
    --- Occultist
    --- Ur-priest

    Grammarsalad
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,241
    edited September 2015


    Carrion crawler is a cool idea. Carrion crawler + otyugh + arachnid, that's definitely more exotic than your wolf and bear and rabbit!

    maybe a bit too exotic...
    carrion crawler is generally seen as freakish mutated worm and it's not an occupant of the jungle habitat - it usually lives underground.

    in dragon #267 (3ed) it is said that: "The reason cc differes so much from terrestrial creatures is that it is not native to the planet. It is instead believed to be a native to the home world of illithids, or mindflayers, wherever that may be. Carrion crawlers do not only share the same habitat as the illithids but also bear a ring of tentacles around the mouth much like the mindflayers."

    sooo...that would be prime alienist material i think.

    otyugh is even less of an "animal", and it doesn't have any particular connection with the jungle.

    - Cleric
    --- Cleric
    --- Acolyte
    --- Incarnate
    - Mystic
    --- Mystic
    --- Druid
    --- Occultist
    --- Ur-priest
    i think this is great

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 10,714
    edited September 2015
    bob_veng said:


    Carrion crawler is a cool idea. Carrion crawler + otyugh + arachnid, that's definitely more exotic than your wolf and bear and rabbit!

    maybe a bit too exotic...
    carrion crawler is generally seen as freakish mutated worm and it's not an occupant of the jungle habitat - it usually lives underground.

    otyugh is even less of an "animal", and it doesn't have any particular connection with the jungle.
    Right, sorry - to clarify, I was talking about giving the carrion crawler + otyugh forms to the Cave Druid.

    The Jungle Druid gets panther + small (normal) spider + wyvern.

    For Occultists, we were thinking:
    - something focused on oozes
    - something focused on demonic/lower planar magic (maybe split between baatezu and tanar'ri, but I'm not convinced)
    - something focused on the inner-planar elements

    ... I forget what else. We'll probably have 3-5 of these. Actually I think the Ur-priest could fit within the Occultist archetype, instead of having its own.

    Post edited by subtledoctor on
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,433

    "Priest" is probably more generic than "cleric". But one thing. when I think " priest "I think " cloister", probably because my wife is Catholic. Well, not the ones locked away in the monistary, but the guys at the podium. Maybe that's just me.

    As for the other, I kinda like adept, occultist, or even witch, though, think i still prefer mystic.

    Agreed. "Occultist" is pretty good, but not as good as Mystic. Actually Occultist would work for the 3rd archetype there, and maybe "Alienist" could simply be a particular subkit of Occultists.

    I actually like "Acolyte" for specialty priests, it connotes unusual devotion to/within a sect. So how about:
    - Cleric
    --- Cleric
    --- Acolyte
    --- Incarnate
    - Mystic
    --- Mystic
    --- Druid
    --- Occultist
    --- Ur-priest
    Oh yeah! That's the stuff!

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 10,714
    edited March 2016
    Okay, I've added the Desert Druid, so here's the final list that will be available at launch:

    FOREST DRUID:
    Forest Druids delight in the regions where soil is nutritious, plant life is abundant and animals thrive. Tall forests are a paradise in many ways: they provide shade from the sun, food and homes for animals and people, and wood for tools. While other wildlands can be wondrous escapes, forests are incessantly under threat of being torn down and subjugated by careless humans and demihumans. Forest druids therefore often live with a constant low-grade paranoia, which informs the stereotype of druids being hostile to civilization.

    Abilities:
    - Major access to the following spheres: Life, Vigor, Affliction, Animal, Plant, Light.
    - Minor access to the following spheres: Knowledge, Thought, Earth, Air, Water, Fire, Deception.
    - At 1st level, may summon a Spirit Wolf. The HD of the spirit animal increases to match the druid's level at 3rd, 5th, 7th and 10th level.
    - At 2nd level, may shapeshift into the form of a wolf. At 7th level this grows to a stronger dire wolf form.
    - At 5th level, may shapeshift into the form of a ferret.
    - At 9th level, may shapeshift into the form of a black bear.

    WOLF: In wolf form the druid can detect hidden enemies. He can attack 1.5 times per round for 2d3 slashing damage.

    FERRET: In ferret form the druid is initially hidden from view. He can attack once per round, causing 1d2 damage; if the target fails a save vs. death, the wound causes disease that saps the targets strength for one turn, and distraction that causes a 10% chance of spell failure.

    BLACK BEAR: In bear form, the Druid has 19 strength. He can attack twice per round with claws that cause 1d6 crushing damage and 1d6 slashing damage.

    MOUNTAIN DRUID:
    Mountain druids occupy and protect the high places where the stony earth reaches up to touch the sky. Like their homes and the creatures that share them, mountain druids tend to be hardy and remote, and difficult to know well. Comfortable climbing dangerous cliffs and delving into deep caves, they develop a fearlessness that makes them tenacious opponents.

    Abilities:
    - Major access to the following spheres: Life, Vigor, Animal, Earth, Air, Light.
    - Minor access to the following spheres: Knowledge, Thought, Affliction, Plant, Water, Fire.
    - At 1st level, may summon a Spirit Bear. The HD of the spirit animal increases to match the druid's level at 3rd, 5th, 7th and 10th level.
    - At 2nd level, may shapeshift into the form of a mountain lion.
    - At 5th level, may shapeshift into the form of a rat.
    - At 9th level, may shapeshift into the form of a grizzly bear.

    MOUNTAIN LION: In lion form the druid can attack 1.5 times per round for 2d3 slashing damage. If the target fails a save vs. death, the ragged wound is particularly savage, causing another 2 points of damage per round for 3 rounds.

    RAT: In rat form the druid is initially hidden from view. He can attack once per round, causing 1d2 damage; if the target fails a save vs. death, the wound causes disease that saps the targets strength for one turn, and distraction that causes a 10% chance of spell failure.

    GRIZZLY BEAR: In bear form, the Druid has 20 strength. He can attack twice per round with claws that cause 1d6 crushing damage and 1d6 slashing damage.

    JUNGLE DRUID:
    Jungle Druids occupy dangerous lands where life forms crowd each other and compete viciously for resources. They take what some consider an unhealthy interest in the biological forms of warfare in which jungle-dwelling animals specialize: toxins and disease. The Jungle druid also practices the magic of deception to gain tactical advantages in an environment where a single sting can mean the end of one's life.

    Abilities:
    - Major access to the following spheres: Life, Vigor, Affliction, Animal, Plant, Deception.
    - Minor access to the following spheres: Knowledge, Thought, Earth, Air, Water, Fire.
    - At 1st level, may summon a Spirit Snake. The HD of the spirit animal increases to match the druid's level at 3rd, 5th, 7th and 10th level.
    - At 2nd level, may shapeshift into the form of a panther.
    - At 5th level, may shapeshift into the form of a spider.
    - At 9th level, may shapeshift into the form of a wyvern.

    PANTHER: In wolf form the druid can attack 1.5 times per round for 2d3 slashing damage. If the target fails a save vs. death, the ragged wound is particularly savage, causing another 2 points of damage per round for 3 rounds.

    SPIDER: In spider form the druid is initially hidden from view. He can attack once per round, causing 1d2 damage; if the target fails a save vs. death, the wound injects poison into the victim which causes 1 point of damage every 3 seconds for 3 rounds.

    WYVERN: In wyvern form, the druid is immune to entanglement and webs. He can attack twice per round with claws that cause 2d4 slashing damage; if the target fails a save vs. death, the wound injects poison into the victim which causes 1 point of damage every 2 seconds for 3 rounds.

    ARCTIC DRUID:
    Even in the frozen tundra, life persists. Arctic druids revel in the harsh but balanced wilds in which the cold is every creature's most dangerous predator. They revel in arctic storms and learn to manipulate the forces of water and air that cause them. Through seclusion and training, they learn the importance of perserverance and determination in the face of privation and seeming hopelessness. This makes Arctic druids quite dangerous foes to those who would offend nature in the frozen north.

    Abilities:
    - Major access to the following spheres: Life, Vigor, Animal, Water, Air, Light.
    - Minor access to the following spheres: Knowledge, Thought, Affliction, Plant, Earth, Fire.
    - At 1st level, may summon a Spirit Bear. The HD of the spirit animal increases to match the druid's level at 3rd, 5th, 7th and 10th level.
    - At 2nd level, may shapeshift into the form of a winter wolf.
    - At 5th level, may shapeshift into the form of a hare.
    - At 9th level, may shapeshift into the form of a polar bear.

    WINTER WOLF: In wolf form the druid can attack 1.5 times per round for 2d3 slashing damage. Once per round, the druid may also project frost breath at a nearby foe, causing up to 1d12 points of cold damage.

    HARE: In hare form the druid is initially hidden from view. He can attack once per round, causing 1d2 damage; if the target fails a save vs. death, the wound causes disease that saps the targets strength for one turn, and distraction that causes a 10% chance of spell failure.

    POLAR BEAR: In bear form, the Druid has 21 strength. He can attack twice per round with claws that cause 1d6 crushing damage and 1d6 slashing damage.

    DESERT DRUID:
    The desert druid is equally at home in hot scrublands, sandy wastes, and canyoned badlands. The harsh, remote nature of such environs provides a serene beauty in which to bask. Desert druids tend to emulate the animals that make homes in such places, exuding an air of power, fleetness, and proud majesty. Often seen by others as aloof and haughty, desert druids become passionate and determined foes when roused to anger.

    Abilities:
    - Major access to the following spheres: Life, Vigor, Animal, Air, Fire, Light.
    - Minor access to the following spheres: Knowledge, Thought, Affliction, Plant, Earth, Water.~
    - At 1st level, may summon a Spirit Lion. The HD of the spirit animal increases to match the druid's level at 3rd, 5th, 7th and 10th level.
    - At 2nd level, may shapeshift into the form of a leopard.
    - At 5th level, may shapeshift into the form of a hare.
    - At 9th level, may shapeshift into the form of a basilisk.

    LEOPARD: in leopard form the druid can attack 1.5 times per round for 2d3 slashing damage. If the target fails a save vs. death, the ragged wound is particularly savage, causing another 2 points of damage per round for 3 rounds.

    HARE: in hare form the druid is initially hidden from view. He can attack once per round, causing 1d2 damage; if the target fails a save vs. death, the wound causes disease that saps the targets strength for one turn, and distraction that causes a 10% chance of spell failure.

    BASILISK: in basilisk form, the druid mat attack once per round with a powerful bite attack that does 1d6 crushing and 1d6 slashing damage. In addition, the druid may use a version of the basislisk's gaze attack which, while weaker than that of the real creature, can paralyze a creature that fails a save vs. petrification, for 60 seconds.

    I need to properly test all the abilities (basically, the winter wolf breath and basilisk gaze), but everything installs fine and works with the sphere system. I think that's it for druids, for now. I want to turn my attention to Mystics.

    After release, I want to get creative and add a few more druid kits along these lines:
    - Cave Druid (spiders/beetles/_____)
    - Swamp Druid (watery creatures)
    - Lost Druid (corporeal undead)

    Post edited by subtledoctor on
    filcat88
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,433
    Gha, time to finish up that deity selection code. The hope is to get it mostly completed this Saturday. I just have to re remember how I did it. Once I've done that, it shouldn't take too long to finish it (well, there is mental gymnastics involved, buy I've learned something about value changes that will not only improve this mod, but the item creation component in TnB. So, cool

    JuliusBorisov
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 10,714
    edited March 2016
    Nice. Meantime, I'll start discussing Mystics.

    1. Mystic kit names

    So Mystics are defined most basically by their sphere of focus: they have the unique ability to cast certain spells as if they were 1 level lower than usual. They will derive power from particular substances or themes. This concept lends itself best to semi-druidic spheres: light, fire, air, etc. But, what to call the kits with each focus? My initial thoughts (tongue firmly in cheek):

    - Fire => "Firewalker"
    - Light => "Solaster" (???)
    - Earth => "Stoneshaper"
    - Air => "Skywalker" :lol:
    - Water => "Aquadrist" :mrgreen:
    - Animal => "Beastlord" or maybe "Lycan" (???)
    - Magic => ...??? (maybe "Metarcanist" but that sounds more scientific than mystical... actually that sounds like a cleric of Azuth. Maybe there should be no Magic Mystic, we can have an Incarnate of Mystra instead)

    Any thoughts or suggestions? Also, any thoughts on which spheres should support Mystics?

    2. Mystic abilities

    Here's a rough idea of what I have in mind:

    FIRE MYSTIC
    Abilities:
    - Focus access to the sphere of Fire.
    - May cast one extra spell per level.
    - 2% Fire Resistance per level, max 40% at 20th level.
    - 20% of all melee attacks cause 1d4 fire damage if the target fails a save vs. breath weapon.
    - May allocate 2 points (++) to Single-Weapon Style and 3 points (+++) to Two-Weapon Style.

    Hindrances:
    - Reduced sphere access - major access to Vigor, Light, Air; minor access to Life, Protection, Knowledge, Magic.
    - Limited to light armor and weapons.

    SUN MYSTIC
    Abilities:
    - Focus access to the sphere of Light.
    - May cast one extra spell per level.
    - Immune to Blindness, and may dispel low-level illusions (up to 3rd level) 3 times per day.
    - 20% of all melee attacks blind the target for 5 seconds on a failed save vs. breath weapon.
    - May allocate 2 points (++) to Single-Weapon Style and 3 points (+++) to Two-Weapon Style.

    Hindrances:
    - Reduced sphere access - major access to Protection, Vigor, Fire, Air; minor access to Life, Knowledge, Plant, Deception, Magic.
    - Limited to light armor and weapons.

    SKY MYSTIC
    Abilities:
    - Focus access to the sphere of Air.
    - May cast one extra spell per level.
    - Immune to Cloud spells.
    - 20% of all melee attacks blow the target away on a failed save vs. breath weapon.
    - May allocate 2 points (++) to Single-Weapon Style and 3 points (+++) to Two-Weapon Style.

    Hindrances:
    - Reduced sphere access - major access to Vigor, Light, Knowledge; minor access to Life, Protection, Thought, Magic.
    - Limited to light armor and weapons.

    STONE MYSTIC
    Abilities:
    - Focus access to the sphere of Earth.
    - May cast one extra spell per level.
    - 2% Crushing Resistance per level, max 40% at 20th level. Immune to Earthquakes and Imprisonment at 15th level.
    - 20% of all melee attacks stun the target for 1-2 seconds upon a failed save vs. death.
    - May allocate 2 points (++) to Single-Weapon Style and 3 points (+++) to Two-Weapon Style.

    Hindrances:
    - Reduced sphere access - major access to Vigor, Plant, Protection; minor access to Life, Knowledge, Affliction, Magic.
    - Limited to light armor and weapons.

    WATER MYSTIC
    Abilities:
    - Focus access to the sphere of Water.
    - May cast one extra spell per level.
    - 2% Acid Resistance per level, max 40% at 20th level. Immune to Smashing Wave.
    - 20% of all melee attacks cause 1d3 acid damage if the target fails a save vs. breath weapon.
    - May allocate 2 points (++) to Single-Weapon Style and 3 points (+++) to Two-Weapon Style.

    Hindrances:
    - Reduced sphere access - major access to Life, Vigor, Affliction; minor access to Knowledge, Thought, Plant, Magic.
    - Limited to light armor and weapons.

    BEAST MYSTIC
    Abilities:
    - Focus access to the sphere of Animal.
    - May cast "Beast Claw" as an innate ability, at will.
    - 20% of all Beast Claw attacks become infected upon a failed save vs. death, weakening the target and causing a 10% chance of spell failure.
    - May shapeshift into a hybrid werewolf form once per day. This form grows in power as the Beastlord reaches higher levels.
    - May allocate 2 points (++) to Single-Weapon Style.

    Hindrances:
    - Reduced sphere access - major access to Life, Vigor, Affliction; minor access to Thought, Plant, Deception.
    - Limited to light armor and weapons.

    Editing to add:

    FATE MYSTIC
    Abilities:
    - Focus access to the sphere of Knowledge.
    - May cast one extra spell per level.
    - Immune to backstabs.
    - 1 point AC bonus every 10 levels.
    - May cast Contingency as an innate ability
    - May allocate 2 points (++) to Single-Weapon Style and 3 points (+++) to Two-Weapon Style.

    Hindrances:
    - Reduced sphere access - major access to Protection, Thought, Dread, Magic; minor access to Life, Death, Vigor, Deception.
    - Limited to light armor and weapons.

    PROTO-DRUID
    Abilities:
    - Focus access to the sphere of Plant.
    - May cast one extra spell per level.
    - Immune to poison and disease.
    - May cast a short, single-target Entanglement spell at will.
    - 15% of all melee hits can Entangle the target, which can Hold the target and cause 1d4 points of piercing damage on a failed save vs. breath weapon.
    - May allocate 2 points (++) to Single-Weapon Style and 3 points (+++) to Two-Weapon Style.

    Hindrances:
    - Reduced sphere access - major access to Life, Thought, Vigor, Affliction; minor access to Animal, Earth, Water, Air, Light.
    - Limited to light armor and weapons.

    Post edited by subtledoctor on
    JuliusBorisovGrammarsalad
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 4,718
    edited September 2015

    Nice. Meantime, I'll start discussing Mystics.

    1. Mystic kit names

    So Mystics are defined most basically by their sphere of focus: they have the unique ability to cast certain spells as if they were 1 level lower than usual. They will derive power from particular substances or themes. This concept lends itself best to semi-druidic spheres: light, fire, air, etc. But, what to call the kits with each focus? My initial thoughts (tongue firmly in cheek):

    - Fire => "Firewalker"
    - Light => "Solaster" (???)
    - Earth => "Stoneshaper"
    - Air => "Skywalker" :lol:
    - Water => "Aquadrist" :mrgreen:
    - Animal => "Beastlord" or maybe "Lycan" (???)
    - Magic => ...??? (maybe "Metarcanist" but that sounds more scientific than mystical... actually that sounds like a cleric of Azuth. Maybe there should be no Magic Mystic, we can have an Incarnate of Mystra instead)

    Any thoughts or suggestions? Also, any thoughts on which spheres should support Mystics?

    I don't know... Firewalker is the title for specialty priests(/Acolytes) of Kossuth. Maybe we could try to give these "elementalists mystics" a more unified name theme (think of the orient, chinese Wu Xing, japanese Shintoism, ect)? This could at the very least make them different from the Alienist's(/Occultist's) elemental sub-kits. Just a thought.

    Anyway, here are a couple of names I've thought of:

    - Fire => M' wanga, Heddy-legba, Flamespeaker, Hitsukai
    - Light => Sungazer, Astrologer, Starwatcher, Firmamentalist, Tenkutsukai
    - Earth => Keyan-legba, Geode/Geodist, Tsuchitsukai
    - Air => Abu-legba, Cloudreader, Fuseitsukai
    - Water => Damon-legba, Wavebreaker, Suiikitsukai
    - Animal => Kahin, Primeval, Kemonotsukai
    - Magic => Hakima, Eldritchos, Mahoutsukai


    2. Mystic abilities

    Here's a rough idea of what I have in mind:

    FIRE MYSTIC

    Abilities:
    - Focus access to the sphere of Fire.
    - May cast one extra spell per level.
    - 2% Fire Resistance per level, max 40% at 20th level.
    - 20% of all melee attacks cause 1d4 fire damage if the target fails a save vs. breath weapon.
    - May allocate 2 points (++) to Single-Weapon Style and 3 points (+++) to Two-Weapon Style.

    Hindrances:
    - Reduced sphere access - major access to Vigor, Light, Air; minor access to Life, Protection, Knowledge, Magic.
    - Limited to light armor and weapons.


    SUN MYSTIC
    Abilities:
    - Focus access to the sphere of Light.
    - May cast one extra spell per level.
    - Immune to Blindness.
    - 20% of all melee attacks blind the target for 5 seconds on a failed save vs. breath weapon.
    - May allocate 2 points (++) to Single-Weapon Style and 3 points (+++) to Two-Weapon Style.

    Hindrances:
    - Reduced sphere access - major access to Protection, Vigor, Fire, Air; minor access to Life, Knowledge, Plant, Deception, Magic.
    - Limited to light armor and weapons.


    SKY MYSTIC
    Abilities:
    - Focus access to the sphere of Air.
    - May cast one extra spell per level.
    - Immune to Cloud spells.
    - 20% of all melee attacks blow the target away on a failed save vs. breath weapon.
    - May allocate 2 points (++) to Single-Weapon Style and 3 points (+++) to Two-Weapon Style.

    Hindrances:
    - Reduced sphere access - major access to Vigor, Light, Knowledge; minor access to Life, Protection, Thought, Magic.
    - Limited to light armor and weapons.


    STONE MYSTIC
    Abilities:
    - Focus access to the sphere of Earth.
    - May cast one extra spell per level.
    - 2% Crushing Resistance per level, max 40% at 20th level. Immune to Earthquakes and Imprisonment at 15th level.
    - 20% of all melee attacks stun the target for 1-2 seconds upon a failed save vs. death.
    - May allocate 2 points (++) to Single-Weapon Style and 3 points (+++) to Two-Weapon Style.

    Hindrances:
    - Reduced sphere access - major access to Vigor, Plant, ???; minor access to Life, Knowledge, ???, Magic.
    - Limited to light armor and weapons.


    WATER MYSTIC
    Abilities:
    - Focus access to the sphere of Water.
    - May cast one extra spell per level.
    - 2% Acid Resistance per level, max 40% at 20th level. Immune to Smashing Wave.
    - 20% of all melee attacks cause 1d3 acid damage if the target fails a save vs. breath weapon.
    - May allocate 2 points (++) to Single-Weapon Style and 3 points (+++) to Two-Weapon Style.

    Hindrances:
    - Reduced sphere access - major access to Life, Vigor, Affliction; minor access to Knowledge, Thought, Plant, Magic.
    - Limited to light armor and weapons.


    BEAST MYSTIC
    Abilities:
    - Focus access to the sphere of Animal.
    - May cast "Beast Claw" as an innate ability, at will.
    - May shapeshift into a hybrid werewolf form once per day. This form grows in power as the Beastlord reaches higher levels.
    - 20% of all claw and werewolf attacks become infected upon a failed save vs. death, weakening the target and causing a chance of spell failure for 1 turn.
    - May allocate 2 points (++) to Single-Weapon Style.

    Hindrances:
    - Reduced sphere access - major access to Protection, Vigor, Fire, Air; minor access to Life, Knowledge, Plant, Deception, Magic.
    - Limited to light armor and weapons.


    Thoughts?

    As far as the "Magic Mystic" goes... well, I believe the Oracle kit might do this role better. Perhaps other spheres could make for more interesting Mystic sub-kits? (I'm looking at you, Death)

    The "Sun Mystic" doesn't have to be limited towards the sun here. After all the Light sphere also includes the moon, stars and other celestial bodies. Perhaps replacing immunity to blindness with a more powerful version of infravision?

    I'm skeptical about the "Beast Mystic". It would be one thing if he/she was an "animal summoner" of sorts. Perhaps even a blood mage-ish caster who harms the enemies from within. But a bloodthirsty, lycanthropic melee machine? This honestly doesn't add up in my mind. At least not when looking at the other sub-kits.

    Maybe a slower movement rate for the "Stone Mystic" could emulate their earthly body weight? At the same time the "Sky Mystic" might move quicker but can carry less than others. Just a thought.

    Otherwise they look great.

    Post edited by Kamigoroshi on
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 10,714
    edited September 2015

    I don't know... Firewalker is the title for specialty priests(/Acolytes) of Kossuth. Maybe we could try to give these "elementalists mystics" a more unified name theme (think of the orient, chinese Wu Xing, japanese Shintoism, ect)? This could at the very least make them different from the Alienist's(/Occultist's) elemental sub-kits.

    Well, we're adding some non-canon stuff (Mystics, Occultists) and generally departing from strictly following canon rules (sphere definitions) so personally I don't mind shifting some canon content over to fill our new kits. I never understood the (3E+!) addition of Kossuth and the other faceless, uncaring Elemental Lords as things that a human would worship in the same way you would worship a "god" who has a personality and a philosophy that you might share and support. Even in the Faiths of Faerun thread, the kit descriptions always said "these guys don't give a crap about their worshippers." Um, excuse me? Then who cares enough to organize a worshipping clergy in the first place?

    Whereas, being obsessed with the *idea* of the purifying flame that Kosduth represents, I can see. So I sort of figured that we would move Firewalkers to the Mystic class. They would not worship Kossuth in an organized way, but would venerate him in the same way a Sun Mystic might venerate Lathander - while remaining independent of an organized clergy.

    But I welcome other opinions, I don't feel very strong about it. If @Grammarsalad wants to include Acolytes of Kossuth that's fine. Ultimately it's just a naming issue. (And btw I love "Flamespeaker.")

    As for the elements generally: roughly, I'm considering the Elementalist in the Occultist class to be someone who studies the energy and matter swirling around the inner planes and learns to manipulate it - similar to how a wizard manipulates the energy of the Weave, though of course with different methods and results.

    Functionally, I'm planning an "Elementalist" kit within the "Occultist" class; Elementalists will have major access to all four elemental spheres. This would be the *only* kit in the whole game with major access to all of the elements; Druids get minor access to them, and elemental Mystics focus on just one. Elemental spells are mostly offensive, so the Elementalist is going to be the divine-class answer to the Invoker.

    Again, if @Grammarsalad or someone else has different/better ideas, I haven't coded anything yet so I'm open to changes.

    As far as the "Magic Mystic" goes... well, I believe the Oracle kit might do this role better. Perhaps other spheres could make for more interesting Mystic sub-kits? (I'm looking at you, Death)

    I agree. I think you and I have together talked me out of doing a Magic Mystic kit. That can be left for acolytes/incarnates blessed by Mystra, or to the at an classes/kits.

    A Death Mystic could be interesting. We'd have to be very careful though, I generally see Death as a sphere on the clerical side of things, rather than on the mystic/druidic side. Why would Kelemvor tolerate such a thing? On the other hand if we could justify it and balance it, it would be very cool. Lots of necromantic magic, % chance for cold damage on hit, maybe innate Chill Touch... could be fun!

    The "Sun Mystic" doesn't have to be limited towards the sun here. After all the Light sphere also includes the moon, stars and other celestial bodies. Perhaps replacing immunity to blindness with a more powerful version of infravision?

    Maybe... we could possibly implement permanent invisibility detection, if I can make it work the same way SRv4 does - invisible enemies aren't revealed to everyone, but the Sun/Light Mystic can personally see and target them. Just need to make sure that wouldn't be game-breaking.

    I'm skeptical about the "Beast Mystic". It would be one thing if he/she was an "animal summoner" of sorts. Perhaps even a blood mage-ish caster who harms the enemies from within. But a bloodthirsty, lycanthropic melee machine? This honestly doesn't add up in my mind.

    I hear that. But I haven't written up any fluff yet. Mystics need not all be calm navel-gazing philosophers. They're meant to be athletic, outdoorsy types, that's why they all have major access to Vigor. They are people intent on connecting with a fundamental, primal aspect of the universe. So the elements fit perfectly, and Death might fit well... plants/life fit but that group has become formalized as the Druid class (though, Mystics with focus access to the Plant sphere, running around as outlaw proto-druids would be pretty great!).

    Focusing on man's inherent bestial nature seems to me like it could fit there. Summon a bunch of wolves and bears, transform into a beast, and then all fall into your prey as a pack... you'd have a vicious philosophy of survival of the fittest, and you *live* that philosophy!

  • SereverusSereverus Member Posts: 70
    just wanna say i'm super excited to see this done, i usually play as a cleric, druid or mage, and some of these classes will really go a long way to making my games more enjoyable

    subtledoctorbob_vengGrammarsalad
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,433
    Sereverus said:

    just wanna say i'm super excited to see this done, i usually play as a cleric, druid or mage, and some of these classes will really go a long way to making my games more enjoyable

    Awesome! That is the goal.

  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,433

    I don't know... Firewalker is the title for specialty priests(/Acolytes) of Kossuth. Maybe we could try to give these "elementalists mystics" a more unified name theme (think of the orient, chinese Wu Xing, japanese Shintoism, ect)? This could at the very least make them different from the Alienist's(/Occultist's) elemental sub-kits.

    Well, we're adding some non-canon stuff (Mystics, Occultists) and generally departing from strictly following canon rules (sphere definitions) so personally I don't mind shifting some canon content over to fill our new kits. I never understood the (3E+!) addition of Kossuth and the other faceless, uncaring Elemental Lords as things that a human would worship in the same way you would worship a "god" who has a personality and a philosophy that you might share and support. Even in the Faiths of Faerun thread, the kit descriptions always said "these guys don't give a crap about their worshippers." Um, excuse me? Then who cares enough to organize a worshipping clergy in the first place?

    Whereas, being obsessed with the *idea* of the purifying flame that Kosduth represents, I can see. So I sort of figured that we would move Firewalkers to the Mystic class. They would not worship Kossuth in an organized way, but would venerate him in the same way a Sun Mystic might venerate Lathander - while remaining independent of an organized clergy.
    Ha ha! I take it you have never played the palladium fantasy rpg. One of my favorite classes was the warlock. They were essentially elemental caster/priests in tune with the elemental planes, and saw elements--who were just as alien and otherworldly as in D&D--as 'brethren'. Elementals generally did not relate to moral races--anymore than we can relate to insects, anyway--but Warlocks found a way to do so, and they might stop in the middle of a rampage to talk to a Warlock. It was always fun playing one of those.

    Anyway, I think it is perfectly appropriate to move them to the Mystic class. This is where they really do seem to fit.

    But I welcome other opinions, I don't feel very strong about it. If @Grammarsalad wants to include Acolytes of Kossuth that's fine. Ultimately it's just a naming issue. (And btw I love "Flamespeaker.")

    As for the elements generally: roughly, I'm considering the Elementalist in the Occultist class to be someone who studies the energy and matter swirling around the inner planes and learns to manipulate it - similar to how a wizard manipulates the energy of the Weave, though of course with different methods and results.

    Functionally, I'm planning an "Elementalist" kit within the "Occultist" class; Elementalists will have major access to all four elemental spheres. This would be the *only* kit in the whole game with major access to all of the elements; Druids get minor access to them, and elemental Mystics focus on just one. Elemental spells are mostly offensive, so the Elementalist is going to be the divine-class answer to the Invoker.

    Again, if @Grammarsalad or someone else has different/better ideas, I haven't coded anything yet so I'm open to changes.
    ...that is an excellent idea, and elementalists can be separate from firewalkers/etc. in this way.

    As far as the "Magic Mystic" goes... well, I believe the Oracle kit might do this role better. Perhaps other spheres could make for more interesting Mystic sub-kits? (I'm looking at you, Death)

    I agree. I think you and I have together talked me out of doing a Magic Mystic kit. That can be left for acolytes/incarnates blessed by Mystra, or to the at an classes/kits.

    A Death Mystic could be interesting. We'd have to be very careful though, I generally see Death as a sphere on the clerical side of things, rather than on the mystic/druidic side. Why would Kelemvor tolerate such a thing? On the other hand if we could justify it and balance it, it would be very cool. Lots of necromantic magic, % chance for cold damage on hit, maybe innate Chill Touch... could be fun!

    The "Sun Mystic" doesn't have to be limited towards the sun here. After all the Light sphere also includes the moon, stars and other celestial bodies. Perhaps replacing immunity to blindness with a more powerful version of infravision?

    Maybe... we could possibly implement permanent invisibility detection, if I can make it work the same way SRv4 does - invisible enemies aren't revealed to everyone, but the Sun/Light Mystic can personally see and target them. Just need to make sure that wouldn't be game-breaking.

    I'm skeptical about the "Beast Mystic". It would be one thing if he/she was an "animal summoner" of sorts. Perhaps even a blood mage-ish caster who harms the enemies from within. But a bloodthirsty, lycanthropic melee machine? This honestly doesn't add up in my mind.

    I hear that. But I haven't written up any fluff yet. Mystics need not all be calm navel-gazing philosophers. They're meant to be athletic, outdoorsy types, that's why they all have major access to Vigor. They are people intent on connecting with a fundamental, primal aspect of the universe. So the elements fit perfectly, and Death might fit well... plants/life fit but that group has become formalized as the Druid class (though, Mystics with focus access to the Plant sphere, running around as outlaw proto-druids would be pretty great!).

    Focusing on man's inherent bestial nature seems to me like it could fit there. Summon a bunch of wolves and bears, transform into a beast, and then all fall into your prey as a pack... you'd have a vicious philosophy of survival of the fittest, and you *live* that philosophy!
    Hey! I'm a calm navel-gazing philosopher! :)

    All of this looks great to me

  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 4,718
    edited October 2015
    Have you guys considered including chaos magic as part of the Occultist? I imagine these "Chaotes" could blend in quite well within the game by making them the divine equivalents of Wild Mages. Tying them to the plane of Limbo instead of wild magic zones might be interesting as well for a theme. There's of course also the Xaositects ("Chaosmen") faction from Planescape which could be used for blending them into the game world as well. Just a thought.

    Alternatively:
    Since Chaotes view "believe" as a tool rather than a path of enlightenment, this could perhaps also make for an interesting Ur-Priest sub-kit.

    Post edited by Kamigoroshi on
    Grammarsalad
  • CahirCahir Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 1,982
    Also, this may be better suited for Tome and Blood but did you think about incorporating Shadow Weave magic somehow? IIRC Lava did create some spells for his Foundling NPC that somehow simulate these kind of spells but I'd love to see some sophisticated system.

    Grammarsalad
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,433
    A couple of very cool ideas.
    Cahir said:

    Also, this may be better suited for Tome and Blood but did you think about incorporating Shadow Weave magic somehow? IIRC Lava did create some spells for his Foundling NPC that somehow simulate these kind of spells but I'd love to see some sophisticated system.

    I think sommering like a shadow mage will be in TnB, but I'm not sure of the specifics. In any case, Shar is likely to have shadow adepts... This might wait until the next release of TnB, so they are compatible.

    I like the idea of a 'chaos priest' type...

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 10,714
    I also love the idea of a Chaos Priest, and it would fit great under the Occultist class. Could we give it the Wild Mage usability flag and cause wild surges when casting spells? That would be great. In exchange we could give it some spontaneous/improvisational casting, or something like that...

    Grammarsalad
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,433
    edited October 2015
    An update: I've worked a bit on the deity selection dialog and script. It's pretty straightforward, but it's a bit time consuming (time is short these days).

    Also, when I get a chance, I want to put a few more deity kits up here for review when I get a chance. I'm thinking Tempus, Ilmater and Loviatar....ahhh, I need to put Talos up here too. I've done some work on all of these, but I want you guys to look at them before finalizing anything. Oh, I believe that Shar is in the mix as well


    Also, any requests for specific gods for the cleric and their kits in the first release? Right now the list is:

    Talos, Helm, Lathander, Tempus, Loviatar, Illmater, and perhaps Shar.

    I have all of the 2e forgotten realms deity books now, so everybody is on the table

  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,433

    I also love the idea of a Chaos Priest, and it would fit great under the Occultist class. Could we give it the Wild Mage usability flag and cause wild surges when casting spells? That would be great. In exchange we could give it some spontaneous/improvisational casting, or something like that...

    A priest version of NRD perhaps?

  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 4,718

    Also, any requests for specific gods for the cleric and their kits in the first release? Right now the list is:

    Talos, Helm, Lathander, Tempus, Loviatar, Illmater, and perhaps Shar.

    I have all of the 2e forgotten realms deity books now, so everybody is on the table

    Personally, I would start with deities which possess temples in the BG saga: Oghma, Waukeen, Tymora, Garl Glittergold, Yondalla and Umberlee come to mind. Then there are Lolth's, Ghaunadaur's and proberly also Eilistraee's places of worship within Ust Nasha as well. On the other hand: expect Ghaunadaur, none of the other Drow pantheon deities accept non-Drow worshipers. Hm...

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 10,714
    edited October 2015

    A priest version of NRD perhaps?

    I don't think it can work exactly like NRD, due to technical limitations. But, maybe innate abilities like those in my Spellbender kit, to supplement normal spellcasting. So, e.g. at 1st level you get one memorized spell plus one improvisational cast. At any given time, at each spell level, you could have your normal magic plus one extra casting of any spell of that level.

    Thinking about deities:

    Some deities should have only Acolytes, not Clerics - they just don't lend themselves to adventuring and mace-bashing. (Of course, sometimes a temple priest gets thrust into a big adventure whether they planned to or not... that's why we make these Acolyte kits available to players.) Oghma, Waukeen, Sune, Umbrelee (though, the latter would present RP problems unless we're willing to change/add some dialogues - and I unfortunately cannot get into that)...

    Others might definitely have adventuring clerics: Tempus, Tymora, and Leira for sure.

    The bigger deities should definitely have both clerics and Acolytes: Lathander, Selune, Helm, Talos, Shar...

    I think some deities should only be available for multiclass clerics: e.g. Mask for cleric/thieves. Ranger/clerics could choose to follow Mielikki, for the traditional class, and maybe Chauntea to simulate a ranger/druid (yeah!). Cleric/mages and cleric/thieves should have the choice to worship a nature deity, to simulate druid/mages and druid/thieves. (We should look into finding a way to restrict druid/mages from casting certain wizard spells that are contrary to the druidic ethos...)

    Mystra is a bit exceptional, I think. It would be reasonable (IMHO) to only have Incarnates (with improvisational wizard spellcasting) or cleric/mages (formally trained in both professions) for her.

    As for Incarnates: some deities are more organized and would presumably prefer to interact with the world through their organized religions - Lathander, Helm, etc. Other deities might be more willing to tap a mortal for direct intervention. Mystra for sure, maybe also Sune, maybe Tymora, maybe Talos... maybe even Bhaal!

    Maybe it would help to list out each kit visually. Then we can just update the list as we decide to change things, or as we finish kits. I put an asterisk * after the ones that are coded up and ready to play. Grammarsalad can add * to whichever he's got done.)

    Clerics:
    - Lathander
    - Selune
    - Helm
    - Tempus
    - Tymora
    - Leira
    - Loviatar
    - Talos
    - Shar
    - Erevan Ilesere (elf-only)
    - Clangeddin Silverbeard (dwarf-only)
    - Baervan Wildwanderer (gnome-only)
    - Brandobaris (halfling-only)

    Acolytes:
    - Lathander
    - Selune
    - Sune
    - Helm
    - Oghma
    - Ilmater
    - Waukeen
    - Talos
    - Shar
    - Labelas Enoreth (elf-only)
    - Baravar Cloakshadow (gnome-only)
    - Arvoreen (halfling-only)

    Incarnates:
    - Mystra
    - Sune
    - Tymora
    -

    Mystics:
    - Nature *
    - Animal *
    - Earth
    - Water
    - Air
    - Fire *
    - Light
    - Fate

    Druids:
    - Forest *
    - Mountain *
    - Jungle *
    - Desert *
    - Arctic *
    - Cave
    - Lost

    Occultists:
    - Ur-priest
    - Elementalist
    - Demonologist
    - Alienist
    - Hivemaster
    - Chaote

    Champions:
    - Tyr
    - Helm
    - Corellon Larethian (elf-only)
    - Arvoreen (halfling-only)

    Inquisitors
    - Lathander
    - Helm

    Zealots
    - Selune
    - Tempus
    - Sune (?)

    Fighter/clerics:
    - Tempus
    - Clangeddin (dwarf-only)
    - Arvoreen (halfling-only)

    Ranger/clerics:
    - Mielikki
    - Chauntea (druid/ranger)
    - Solonor Thelandira (elf-only)

    Cleric/mages:
    - Mystra
    - Sylvanus (druid/mage)
    - Labelas Enoreth (elf-only)

    Cleric/thieves:
    - Mask
    - Sylvanus (druid/thief)
    - Erevan Ilesere (elf-only)
    - Baravar Cloakshadow (gnome-only)
    - Brandobaris (halfling-only)

    Post edited by subtledoctor on
    JuliusBorisovGrammarsalad
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,433
    edited October 2015

    Also, any requests for specific gods for the cleric and their kits in the first release? Right now the list is:

    Talos, Helm, Lathander, Tempus, Loviatar, Illmater, and perhaps Shar.

    I have all of the 2e forgotten realms deity books now, so everybody is on the table

    Personally, I would start with deities which possess temples in the BG saga: Oghma, Waukeen, Tymora, Garl Glittergold, Yondalla and Umberlee come to mind. Then there are Lolth's, Ghaunadaur's and proberly also Eilistraee's places of worship within Ust Nasha as well. On the other hand: expect Ghaunadaur, none of the other Drow pantheon deities accept non-Drow worshipers. Hm...
    I'm fine adding these if it's fine that, in the first release, they do not have extra dialog (which is certainly the plan, but one that will be implemented in the far(ish) future).

    Oghma especially makes sense.

    A priest version of NRD perhaps?

    I don't think it can work exactly like NRD, due to technical limitations. But, maybe innate abilities like those in my Spellbender kit, to supplement normal spellcasting. So, e.g. at 1st level you get one memorized spell plus one improvisational cast. At any given time, at each spell level, you could have your normal magic plus one extra casting of any spell of that level.

    Thinking about deities:

    Some deities should have only Acolytes, not Clerics - they just don't lend themselves to adventuring and mace-bashing. (Of course, sometimes a temple priest gets thrust into a big adventure whether they planned to or not... that's why we make these Acolyte kits available to players.) Oghma, Waukeen, Sune, Umbrelee (though, the latter would present RP problems unless we're willing to change/add some dialogues - and I unfortunately cannot get into that)...

    Others might definitely have adventuring clerics: Tempus, Tymora, and Leira for sure.

    The bigger deities should definitely have both clerics and Acolytes: Lathander, Selune, Helm, Talos, Shar...

    I think some deities should only be available for multiclass clerics: e.g. Mask for cleric/thieves. Ranger/clerics could choose to follow Mielikki, for the traditional class, and maybe Chauntea to simulate a ranger/druid (yeah!). Cleric/mages and cleric/thieves should have the choice to worship a nature deity, to simulate druid/mages and druid/thieves. (We should look into finding a way to restrict druid/mages from casting certain wizard spells that are contrary to the druidic ethos...)

    Mystra is a bit exceptional, I think. It would be reasonable (IMHO) to only have Incarnates (with improvisational wizard spellcasting) or cleric/mages (formally trained in both professions) for her.

    As for Incarnates: some deities are more organized and would presumably prefer to interact with the world through their organized religions - Lathander, Helm, etc. Other deities might be more willing to tap a mortal for direct intervention. Mystra for sure, maybe also Sune, maybe Tymora, maybe Talos... maybe even Bhaal!

    Maybe it would help to list out each kit visually. Then we can just update the list as we decide to change things, or as we finish kits. I put an asterisk * after the ones that are coded up and ready to play. Grammarsalad can add * to whichever he's got done.)

    Clerics:
    - Lathander
    - Selune
    - Helm
    - Tempus
    - Tymora
    - Leira
    - Talos
    - Shar
    - Erevan Ilesere (elf-only)
    - Clangeddin Silverbeard (dwarf-only)
    - Baervan Wildwanderer (gnome-only)
    - Arvoreen (halfling-only)
    Acolytes:
    - Lathander
    - Selune
    - Sune
    - Helm
    - Oghma
    - Waukeen
    - Talos
    - Shar
    - Labelas Enoreth (elf-only)
    - Baravar Cloakshadow (gnome-only)
    - Brandobaris (halfling-only)
    Incarnates:
    - Mystra
    - Sune
    - Tymora
    -
    Mystics:
    - Plant
    - Fire *
    - Earth
    - Air
    - Water
    - Light
    - Fate
    - Animal
    Druids:
    - Forest *
    - Mountain *
    - Jungle *
    - Desert *
    - Arctic *
    - Cave
    - Lost
    Occultists:
    - Ur-priest
    - Elementalist
    - Alienist
    - Hivemaster
    - Demonologist
    - Chaote
    Champions:
    - Tyr
    - Helm
    - Corellon Larethian
    Fighter/clerics:
    - Tempus
    - Clangeddin (dwarf-only)
    - Arvoreen (halfling-only)
    Ranger/clerics:
    - Mielikki
    - Chauntea (druid/ranger)
    - Solonor Thelandira (elf-only)
    Cleric/mages:
    - Mystra
    - Sylvanus (druid/mage)
    - Labelas Enoreth (elf-only)
    Cleric/thieves:
    - Mask
    - Sylvanus (druid/thief)
    - Erevan Ilesere (elf-only)
    - Baravar Cloakshadow (gnome-only)
    - Brandobaris (halfling-only)
    Looks like a great list. I'll want to add Loviatar and Illmater to this list is only because I've already started on them (heh, I now have that song that goes, "pain, without love. Pain, I can't get enough. Pain, 'cause I like it rough, I'd rather feel pain than nothing at all.." Stuck in my head.)

    I might want to add Bane, if only because he's one of my favorites.. For him I could see clerics, Acolytes, and champions edit: and inquisitors(obviously, probably, IWD only).

    Also, both Shar and Talos want a piece of Mystra's portfolio, so I could see them supporting cleric/mages.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 10,714
    edited October 2015
    Oh yeah, forgot about them. I assume Ilmater would have Acolytes, not Clerics. Loviatar could go either way.

    I'm going to try to get the Druids and Mystics done, and maybe some others that can be easily translated from Scales of Balance kits: Acolyte of Shar,* Acolyte of Sune, Cleric of Arvoreen,* Cleric of Brandobaris,* Cleric of Tymora,* Cleric of Leira,* Cleric of Baravar Cloakshadow, Cleric of Erevan Ilesere, Incarnate of Mystra,* Cleric/mage of Mystra, Cleric/thief of Mask,* Cleric/Ranger, Druid/Ranger, Druid/thief, Elementalist,* and Chaos Priest. Beyond that my ability to add stuff will be extremely limited, RL has caught up to me and is leaving me with very little time atm.

    Post edited by subtledoctor on
    Grammarsalad
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,433

    Oh yeah, forgot about them. I assume Ilmater would have Acolytes, not Clerics. Loviatar could go either way.

    I'm going to try to get the Druids and Mystics done, and maybe some others that can be easily translated from Scales of Balance kits: Acolyte of Shar, Acolyte of Sune, Cleric of Arvoreen, Cleric of Brandobaris, Cleric of Tymora, Cleric of Leira, Cleric of Baravar Cloakshadow, Cleric of Erevan Ilesere, Incarnate of Mystra, Cleric/mage of Mystra, Cleric/thief of Mask, Cleric/Ranger, Druid/Ranger, Druid/thief, Elementalist, and Chaos Priest. Beyond that my ability to add stuff will be extremely limited, RL has caught up to me and is leaving me with very little time atm.

    Wow, that is more than I expected, but great. I've got the others. Life has caught up with me as well, but the delay is temporary

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 10,714
    edited October 2015

    Wow, that is more than I expected,

    Ha ha, well, those are the kits that I can transfer more or less directly from SoB, with abilities etc. that are already sitting on my hard drive, so they should be easy. This way we'll have some stuff ready to go for a working v1.0 release, with a minimum of effort. Once I have them in the mod you can feel free to tinker with them tailor them to balance with the rest of the kits, etc.

    I have two three! Mystic kits working so far, I should be able to get the other five done by next week. Then I'll work on the Cleric/Acolyte/Multiclass kits from SoB. If you can focus on clerics and acolytes of the "big" deities (Lathander, Selune, Helm, Tempus, Talos) and some of the smaller ones (Oghma, Ilmater, Loviatar, Waukeen), and the Occultists and Champions, then I think we will be in great shape to ship, soon!

    Before I forget: check the share drive and let me know what you think of my proposed spell table for Paladins/Champions. I think that's all we'll need to include BG/BG2 compatibility. (It will require IWDification, but that's fine.)

    Finally, we haven't really talked about rangers. Personally I'm okay with just omitting rangers from the mod, at least for v1. They don't really need to commit to a deity the way other kits do, so they don't really need to be here, and I've been working on rangers in Might & Guile. (I can easily add checks in M&G to give select sphere access to the various ranger kits.) But if you have ideas and think rangers should be handled by this mod, let me know.

    Post edited by subtledoctor on
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,433

    Wow, that is more than I expected,

    Ha ha, well, those are the kits that I can transfer more or less directly from SoB, with abilities etc. that are already sitting on my hard drive, so they should be easy. This way we'll have some stuff ready to go for a working v1.0 release, with a minimum of effort. Once I have them in the mod you can feel free to tinker with them tailor them to balance with the rest of the kits, etc.

    I have two three! Mystic kits working so far, I should be able to get the other five done by next week. Then I'll work on the Cleric/Acolyte/Multiclass kits from SoB. If you can focus on clerics and acolytes of the "big" deities (Lathander, Selune, Helm, Tempus, Talos) and some of the smaller ones (Oghma, Ilmater, Loviatar, Waukeen), and the Occultists and Champions, then I think we will be in great shape to ship, soon!

    Before I forget: check the share drive and let me know what you think of my proposed spell table for Paladins/Champions. I think that's all we'll need to include BG/BG2 compatibility. (It will require IWDification, but that's fine.)

    Finally, we haven't really talked about rangers. Personally I'm okay with just omitting rangers from the mod, at least for v1. They don't really need to commit to a deity the way other kits do, so they don't really need to be here, and I've been working on rangers in Might & Guile. (I can easily add checks in M&G to give select sphere access to the various ranger kits.) But if you have ideas and think rangers should be handled by this mod, let me know.
    Okay, sounds good. I think we can leave rangers alone for now. I'll check the drive, hopefully this Saturday (the day I'm usually free has been anything but these days)

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