I really hope they fix R/C some day, then this wouldn't even be a discussion......a R/C in BG1 wouldn't have any druid spells at all (just free DW and some stealth, and a chance to lose it all if you make a bad decision (and being limited to good only) but requiring giving up heavier armor to take advantage of), and in BG2 wouldn't get anything druidic above 3rd level...which druid spells don't really become good-ish until 4th (and the cleric already gets the few good lower level spells druid would).
In BG1, the barbarian is flat out superior to the berserker in every way possible. Easily the best fighter type character in the game in fact. Their speed bonus is RIDICULOUSLY powerful (you can't get boosts of speed until over 2/3 of the way through the game), and their rage is a double strength DUHM (for BG1 anyway, since DUHM caps at +2) with built-in immunities. the armor "penalty" is a non-issue, because they spend less time moving towards the target and thus don't take as many ranged attacks, and once in melee range, depending on weapon speed and reach (quarterstaves are god), they can effortless kill any target in melee without taking a hit due to superior mobility (and ranged only enemies take a a big thac0 hit for close range, while you get a thac0 bonus to hit them).
In BG2...they're still flat out superior, aside from a small band right in the middle. (But we've already had this discussion in another devoted thread, so I'll leave it at that).
1.) Berserkers got better rage than the barbarian
2.) Berserkers can get Grand Mastery
3.) Berserkers can dual class
4.) Berserkers can use full plate (Great for high AC in BG1)
5.) The speed boost isn't that great and doesn't change anything. It's only annoying when the rest is slow. You never see someone cheer about the monk speed which is much better than the barbarian one.
6.) The extra 2 health a level isn't anything important. You got such a high health as a Berserker anyway.
There is no way in hell a Barbarian is greater.
[Edited] :
1.) Let's look at their rage, i won't mention things they both have. This will make it easier to see the cons/advantages.
Barbarian :
+4 Str +4 Con -2 AC +2 Saving throws
Berserker :
+2 Damage +2 Thac0 +2 AC +15 Hit points Immunity to Feeblemind Immunity to Imprison (!)
The + Damage and Thac0 the berserker got is the same as +2-3 in STR. And from looking at those things i sure as hell would take the Berserker instead. In BG1 having a full plate + 2 AC from berserk is insane. While the Barbarian loses out on 2 AC and can only have studdel leather +3 (Shadow)
2.) Let's look at the proficiensy of the berserker and Barbarian
Barbarian :
+1 Thac0 +2 Damage ½ APR
Berserker :
+3 Thac0 +4 Damage 1 APR
So not only does he get +2 Thac0 +2 damage more than the Barbarian, He also gets ½ APR more.
3.) Berserker can dual class. Something the Barbarian can't do unless you mod your BG. This lets him dual class to a thief, mage or cleric. This alone makes the Berserker much more viable and powerful than the barbarian
4.) A berserker can't use full plate in BG1. So you're going to lose out on alot of AC right there. Let's look at it.
Barbarian
Shadow armor (Armor class 4) No ring of protection (Magical armor) -2 AC from rage
Berserker
Full plate (Armor class 1) Ring of protection +2 (Armor class +2) Rage (Armor class +2)
So the berserker under rage will have... 9 better AC. In BG2 you can get some great leather armors, but then there are other things that will make the berserker better.
5.) The speed bonus is great for kiting and ranged. But it doesn't do that much else.
6.) I much rather have +2 more Thac0, +2 more damage and ½ APR more than 2 health per level.
The berserker is much better in BG1. And in BG2 DuHM will give you the extra STR and CON so you'll have everything much better than the Barbarian.
If you play a barbarian like a berserker, yes the barbarian will under perform...because they have totally different playstyles. Berserkers are tanks (with a metric %^$&-ton of benefits they aren't supposed to have, including the ability to GM), Barbarians are hit/fade damage dealers that transition into unkillable engines of death once they hit the 20's.
the fact that berserker's can dual class means they're weaker (having to rely on another class to even compete)...the barbarian doesn't HAVE to dual class, because they're effective a F/C as a single class.
IN BG2, AC no longer matters...the AC amounts off any armor are so high, any genuine threat will hit you anyway, or you'll be crit which makes AC pointless...in which the case the barb is better due to higher HP and damage reduction, as well as their playstyle, which allows them negate massive amounts of melee damage by simply never staying in range long enough for an enemy to swing.
People that complain about Monk or barb speed have no opinion, since they're not playing the class as intended and it's their own fault if they under-perform as a result.
It's like people who try to stack AC on Kensai....pointless...just kill stuff before it becomes a threat, like the kit description says to.
1.) In BG2 barbarian rage doesn't matter as you got 25 STR and CON with DUHM 2.) The berserker actually does MORE damage than the barbarian. And he also tanks better. Once they both have 25 STR then the berserker got +4 more damage +3 Thac0 and ½ APR more.
So the berserker got :
Better AC More Immunities Higher APR More Damage
While the barbarian got 20% damage reduction at high level and 2 more health per level.
It's not rocket sciense who is the better.
BG1 -> Berserker because of full plate and much better AC BG 2 -> Berserker because of more damage, better AC, more immunities.
And i only play SCS nowdays. And barbarians aren't unkillable and they die very very quickly. Even with the 20% damage reduction.
Also there are only two ways to be immune to Imprisonment. That is a mage spell and the berserker rage. So my berserker can fight mages with imprisonment while your barbarian can't.
Most enemies you will fight are much stronger than you are. This is one of the reasons we can stack AC.
Put a kensai up against
1.) BG1 sarevok alone. The berserker can do this with his -12 AC. The kensai will get destroyed as Sarevok got higher damage and much better Thaco
2.) Put a kensai up against the three greater doppelgangers in Durlag's keep. They will destroy you in seconds with their haste.
3.) Put a kensai up against the wyverns in Durlag's tower. You won't even get them to injured before you're dead and gone.
The kensai is incredible weak in BG1. In the old no-reload thread i don't think a single person got through solo kensai in BG1.
There is this romantic idea around here that you can brute force anything with a Kensai or Barbarian. And with an assassin you can just backstab it with x7. Well the fact is you'll die to superior numbers or hard enemies with the Kensai /barbarian . And there are some hard enemies that are immune to backstab or got stoneskin. Baldur's gate is all about being prepared and SURVIVING combat.
The reason the mage is the most powerful in the game is because they can SURVIVE anything. You don't see the pure kensai being mentioned here because he can't beat brute force without proper defense.
A berserker will always be better than a pure kensai or barbarian. They got better defenses and almost (Kensai) or better (Barbarian) damage.
The berserker can walk into the most difficult fights in the game (Mages) without taking a single held spell. The barbarian can do this but still fall for imprisonment. And the kensai with their bad saving throws will get feared/held/confused and how much damage do you do when you're not in control of your character?
when you have 25 str it really doesn't matter who is doing more damage because more damage is not needed barb with proper equipment could reach something like 85% damage reduction to all attacks and more than 100% to some kinds so he would just stand there and be healed while they attacking him
so with your "survive combat" barb is better
talking about scsii or mods that you play is not relevant because everyone could install different mods and argue about installation
1.) a berserker/cleric will have the same % as a barbarian. Or a Berserker /thief .
Now i did some test with Baldur's gate 1 to show you the difference. I used the best possible gear for all three (With the exception of the shield amulet, i'll do that later). All of these start with 19 STR and 19 CON.
Berserker Level 8
Full plate Ring of protection +2 Helm of Balduran Large shield +2 Gauntlets of weapon expertise Cloak of Balduran Long sword +2
-12 AC (Rage) 141 health APR 3 Thac0 1 +8 Damage (+2 Rage, +4 Grand Mastery +2 gloves of weapon expertise)
Kensai level 8
Ring of protection +2 Long sword +2
+1AC 121 health APR 3 (One handed) APR 4 (Two handed) Thac0 3 (One handed) Thac0 5/9 (Two handed) Damage +6 (+2 from Kensai, +4 from Grand Mastery)
Barbarian level 8
Studded leather armor +2 Helm of Balduran Large shield +2 Gauntlets of weapon expertise Cloak of Balduran Longsword +2
-2 AC (Rage) 139 health (!) You have less health than a berserker on level 8 APR 2½ Thac0 3 Damage 8 (+4 STR, +2 Specialization, +2 Gauntlets)
As you can see here. A level 8 berserker in BGEE has :
1.) Highest health 2.) Highest Thac0 3.) Highest AC (9 more than the barbarian) 4.) Sharing place of highest damage with the 23 str barbarian. 5.) Most immunities with Rage 6.) Best APR (Sharing with Kensai)
I think it's quite clear who is the best one in BG1. And if we look at BG 2
Actually.....Protection from Magic scrolls, Slayer form, Spell Immunity, Berserker rage, spell trap, shield of archons all block imprisonment.
Imprisonment for any creature beside demi-liches is a melee range spell with a 6 cast time...there are exactly 2 demi-liches...there are exactly 2 Protection from Magic scrolls...Imprisonment is a non-issue.
For other creatures is easy enough to simply kite them till PfMW runs out then zip in and bash them to death with an elemental weapon since the extra ticks grant additional chances for hit reactions (FOA is a guaranteed interrupt, assuming the target isn't killed outright). The Barb excels at this, though the kensai can as well if they have boots of speed, speed potions, items that can grant haste temporarily, etc.
For non-imprisonment battles...there's the cloak of the sewers or rings of air control.
The only real difference is that the Kensai needs to use consumables to cover their weaker areas, which is the trade off for the highest physical damage in the game (barring singing image cheese of course...nothing can hold a candle to that...but it's also borderline cheating).
Kensai will kill everything flat out..........they're much tougher in BG1, yes, due to the fact it takes forever to get boots of speed, relative to BG2, where you can grab the boots immediately after leaving the prelude if you desire. (though careful use of invisibility and speed potions can get the job done).
In a party situation, Barbs and Kensai are godly, because their "penalties" are a non-issue if there's someone else to tank or handle countering stuff, allowing them to focus purely on killing stuff.
Assassin's don't work because everything worth the effort of backstabbing is immune in late game, with few exceptions. Nothing is immune to having it's face smashed in with the FoA (or IMoD one-shotting for Demi-liches) for 400+ damage in under 3 rounds. The ravager barely survives into the 3rd round worth of damage, and only because of it's ridiculously high physical DR. PfMW is just a minor speed bump along the way.
1.) archon and spell trap aren't 100% secure as they can get rid of it with other spells. Protection from magic scrolls are rare in the game. Irenicus throws imprisonment in the original game, so does the mage captured in the underdark and the two demi liches. So that's 4 times in the original game. With SCS it's even more.
2.) A kensai dies to Sarevok in BG1, any dragon you'll fight, the ravager in ToB, yaga shura. I can continue here. There are so many creatures out there that will deal more damage than you do. The encounter with the statues in Watcher's keep will utterly destroy your kensai, same with the elemental demon.
3.) In a party barbs and kensai are godly. THeir penalties are none if there's someone else to tank and handle stuff....
You do know the berserker can do the exact same damage as the kensai and barbs. AND he can tank the stuff at the same time? So instead of having two characters you got one single character that can do everything.
Barbarians and kensai are nice enough. But they are nowhere close to as good or useful as a berserker.
4.) They aren't safe to solo as there are so many things that deal much more damage than they do, with better armor class to boot. AND any mage fight will destroy you.
Try going through cloakwood solo with a kensai. You'll get poisoned every single time thanks to your incredible low AC.
I levled them all up with shadowkeeper normally. The berserker get +15 health from their rage. The barbarian get 2 more health per level. Feel free to do the same and post what you get. I'll check it again as the barbarian should have got +16 health to the berserkers +15
Except that I've done it all..on INSANE...it works fine (key word being careful use of invisibility potions...I basically skipped cloakwood until after i got the boots of speed, and then came back and pinged everything to death with QS+3). The hardest part of the sarevok fight is that if you're solo, you can't dispel him (unless you manage to charm Angelo with Algernon's cloak and/or a nymph cloak, who has a stack of arrows of dispelling), so he's hasted too. Still, potion of invulnerability, potion of power, a storm giant str potion, and DUHM (from BS ability), and he dies in 5 rounds, and you shouldn't have to heal but maybe once, though if you get lucky with stun procs, it can end up being a joke fight).
Except that I've done it all..on INSANE...it works fine (key word being careful use of invisibility potions...I basically skipped cloakwood until after i got the boots of speed, and then came back and
You solo'd Drizzt before Cloakwood? I'm unsure of any other boots besides his and cloakwood. Is Drizzt easier than cloakwood on those ridiculous difficulty levels ?
I like the inquisitor the most out of the paladin kits. Illusion protections? I don't think so! Magic? I dispel magic better than an archmage!
I honestly do not see why people dislike the inquisitor so much. Priests can turn and heal far better than any paladin anyway. The loss of spells is kind of a big hit, but most people just bring a priest along for that anyway. Not to mention the class bonuses are really good. The inquisitor is the one and only class that can cast the ultra dispel. That is very unique and incredibly useful.
I also do not understand why the cavalier gets such admiration. He is basically just immune to some stuff. Sure there is the bonus vs demons and dragons, which are nasty, but how common are those guys in the series anyway? Not to mention they lose missile weapons.
I personally would rather have the actively used special abilities of the inquisitor than a few passive immunities. Makes me feel like I'm actually doing something. Besides, there are spells that give immunities. Why would I want to pick a kit that just gives me a few immunities that I can get with spells and items anyway?
Any immunity is nice because it frees up a spell slot/item slot that would otherwise be reserved for that character. A cavalier almost trivializes fear, for instance, due to his immunity and the instant remove fears they receive for use on party members.
That said, inquisitors abilities are pretty awesome. Makes for a tough choice.
I like the inquisitor the most out of the paladin kits. Illusion protections? I don't think so! Magic? I dispel magic better than an archmage!
I honestly do not see why people dislike the inquisitor so much. Priests can turn and heal far better than any paladin anyway. The loss of spells is kind of a big hit, but most people just bring a priest along for that anyway. Not to mention the class bonuses are really good. The inquisitor is the one and only class that can cast the ultra dispel. That is very unique and incredibly useful.
I also do not understand why the cavalier gets such admiration. He is basically just immune to some stuff. Sure there is the bonus vs demons and dragons, which are nasty, but how common are those guys in the series anyway? Not to mention they lose missile weapons.
I personally would rather have the actively used special abilities of the inquisitor than a few passive immunities. Makes me feel like I'm actually doing something. Besides, there are spells that give immunities. Why would I want to pick a kit that just gives me a few immunities that I can get with spells and items anyway?
Any immunity is nice because it frees up a spell slot/item slot that would otherwise be reserved for that character. A cavalier almost trivializes fear, for instance, due to his immunity and the instant remove fears they receive for use on party members.
That said, inquisitors abilities are pretty awesome. Makes for a tough choice.
that is all about it, it is tough if it wasn't everybody would just agree and there would be no point in forums
i can tell you what will be the result 15*8=120 17*8=136
15 * 8 + 15 = 135 17 * 8 = 136
The barbarian has 1 more health at level 8 because of the berserker rage giving +15 hit points.
This will be my last post here as to not derail too much.
Technically it is a best fighter thread. As long as you are arguing which is a better fighter I would argue you are on topic.
Yes but i tend to write quite long posts and i don't really think my walls of text belong in this thread. And i feel that we have reached a conclusion, or as close to it anyway. So i'm quite satisfied and don't feel that i have anything more to add here
@SionIV, I think your arguments are strong, and you about have me convinced that the Berserker is the better compared to the Barbarian, but why are you testing your Barbarians in studded leather instead of chainmail?
@SionIV, I think your arguments are strong, and you about have me convinced that the Berserker is the better compared to the Barbarian, but why are you testing your Barbarians in studded leather instead of chainmail?
Because i normally don't play a barbarian in BG1 and use the shadow armor and such in BG2. I can honestly say that i forgot about the chain mail. I guess that if you kill Drittz or get the chain mail +2 from the bounty hunters he'll have quite a bit more AC. Thank you for mentioning that
Comments
2.) Berserkers can get Grand Mastery
3.) Berserkers can dual class
4.) Berserkers can use full plate (Great for high AC in BG1)
5.) The speed boost isn't that great and doesn't change anything. It's only annoying when the rest is slow. You never see someone cheer about the monk speed which is much better than the barbarian one.
6.) The extra 2 health a level isn't anything important. You got such a high health as a Berserker anyway.
There is no way in hell a Barbarian is greater.
[Edited] :
1.) Let's look at their rage, i won't mention things they both have. This will make it easier to see the cons/advantages.
Barbarian :
+4 Str
+4 Con
-2 AC
+2 Saving throws
Berserker :
+2 Damage
+2 Thac0
+2 AC
+15 Hit points
Immunity to Feeblemind
Immunity to Imprison (!)
The + Damage and Thac0 the berserker got is the same as +2-3 in STR. And from looking at those things i sure as hell would take the Berserker instead. In BG1 having a full plate + 2 AC from berserk is insane. While the Barbarian loses out on 2 AC and can only have studdel leather +3 (Shadow)
2.) Let's look at the proficiensy of the berserker and Barbarian
Barbarian :
+1 Thac0
+2 Damage
½ APR
Berserker :
+3 Thac0
+4 Damage
1 APR
So not only does he get +2 Thac0 +2 damage more than the Barbarian, He also gets ½ APR more.
3.) Berserker can dual class. Something the Barbarian can't do unless you mod your BG. This lets him dual class to a thief, mage or cleric. This alone makes the Berserker much more viable and powerful than the barbarian
4.) A berserker can't use full plate in BG1. So you're going to lose out on alot of AC right there. Let's look at it.
Barbarian
Shadow armor (Armor class 4)
No ring of protection (Magical armor)
-2 AC from rage
Berserker
Full plate (Armor class 1)
Ring of protection +2 (Armor class +2)
Rage (Armor class +2)
So the berserker under rage will have... 9 better AC. In BG2 you can get some great leather armors, but then there are other things that will make the berserker better.
5.) The speed bonus is great for kiting and ranged. But it doesn't do that much else.
6.) I much rather have +2 more Thac0, +2 more damage and ½ APR more than 2 health per level.
The berserker is much better in BG1. And in BG2 DuHM will give you the extra STR and CON so you'll have everything much better than the Barbarian.
If you play a barbarian like a berserker, yes the barbarian will under perform...because they have totally different playstyles. Berserkers are tanks (with a metric %^$&-ton of benefits they aren't supposed to have, including the ability to GM), Barbarians are hit/fade damage dealers that transition into unkillable engines of death once they hit the 20's.
the fact that berserker's can dual class means they're weaker (having to rely on another class to even compete)...the barbarian doesn't HAVE to dual class, because they're effective a F/C as a single class.
IN BG2, AC no longer matters...the AC amounts off any armor are so high, any genuine threat will hit you anyway, or you'll be crit which makes AC pointless...in which the case the barb is better due to higher HP and damage reduction, as well as their playstyle, which allows them negate massive amounts of melee damage by simply never staying in range long enough for an enemy to swing.
People that complain about Monk or barb speed have no opinion, since they're not playing the class as intended and it's their own fault if they under-perform as a result.
It's like people who try to stack AC on Kensai....pointless...just kill stuff before it becomes a threat, like the kit description says to.
2.) The berserker actually does MORE damage than the barbarian. And he also tanks better. Once they both have 25 STR then the berserker got +4 more damage +3 Thac0 and ½ APR more.
So the berserker got :
Better AC
More Immunities
Higher APR
More Damage
While the barbarian got 20% damage reduction at high level and 2 more health per level.
It's not rocket sciense who is the better.
BG1 -> Berserker because of full plate and much better AC
BG 2 -> Berserker because of more damage, better AC, more immunities.
And i only play SCS nowdays. And barbarians aren't unkillable and they die very very quickly. Even with the 20% damage reduction.
Also there are only two ways to be immune to Imprisonment. That is a mage spell and the berserker rage. So my berserker can fight mages with imprisonment while your barbarian can't.
Most enemies you will fight are much stronger than you are. This is one of the reasons we can stack AC.
Put a kensai up against
1.) BG1 sarevok alone. The berserker can do this with his -12 AC. The kensai will get destroyed as Sarevok got higher damage and much better Thaco
2.) Put a kensai up against the three greater doppelgangers in Durlag's keep. They will destroy you in seconds with their haste.
3.) Put a kensai up against the wyverns in Durlag's tower. You won't even get them to injured before you're dead and gone.
The kensai is incredible weak in BG1. In the old no-reload thread i don't think a single person got through solo kensai in BG1.
There is this romantic idea around here that you can brute force anything with a Kensai or Barbarian. And with an assassin you can just backstab it with x7. Well the fact is you'll die to superior numbers or hard enemies with the Kensai /barbarian . And there are some hard enemies that are immune to backstab or got stoneskin. Baldur's gate is all about being prepared and SURVIVING combat.
The reason the mage is the most powerful in the game is because they can SURVIVE anything. You don't see the pure kensai being mentioned here because he can't beat brute force without proper defense.
A berserker will always be better than a pure kensai or barbarian. They got better defenses and almost (Kensai) or better (Barbarian) damage.
The berserker can walk into the most difficult fights in the game (Mages) without taking a single held spell. The barbarian can do this but still fall for imprisonment. And the kensai with their bad saving throws will get feared/held/confused and how much damage do you do when you're not in control of your character?
barb with proper equipment could reach something like 85% damage reduction to all attacks and more than 100% to some kinds so he would just stand there and be healed while they attacking him
so with your "survive combat" barb is better
talking about scsii or mods that you play is not relevant because everyone could install different mods and argue about installation
Now i did some test with Baldur's gate 1 to show you the difference. I used the best possible gear for all three (With the exception of the shield amulet, i'll do that later). All of these start with 19 STR and 19 CON.
Berserker Level 8
Full plate
Ring of protection +2
Helm of Balduran
Large shield +2
Gauntlets of weapon expertise
Cloak of Balduran
Long sword +2
-12 AC (Rage)
141 health
APR 3
Thac0 1
+8 Damage (+2 Rage, +4 Grand Mastery +2 gloves of weapon expertise)
Kensai level 8
Ring of protection +2
Long sword +2
+1AC
121 health
APR 3 (One handed)
APR 4 (Two handed)
Thac0 3 (One handed)
Thac0 5/9 (Two handed)
Damage +6 (+2 from Kensai, +4 from Grand Mastery)
Barbarian level 8
Studded leather armor +2
Helm of Balduran
Large shield +2
Gauntlets of weapon expertise
Cloak of Balduran
Longsword +2
-2 AC (Rage)
139 health (!) You have less health than a berserker on level 8
APR 2½
Thac0 3
Damage 8 (+4 STR, +2 Specialization, +2 Gauntlets)
--------------------------------------------------
As you can see here. A level 8 berserker in BGEE has :
1.) Highest health
2.) Highest Thac0
3.) Highest AC (9 more than the barbarian)
4.) Sharing place of highest damage with the 23 str barbarian.
5.) Most immunities with Rage
6.) Best APR (Sharing with Kensai)
I think it's quite clear who is the best one in BG1. And if we look at BG 2
Berserker :
Higher damage
Better rage
Higher APR
Dual class
Barbarian
20% Damage reduction
More health
Imprisonment for any creature beside demi-liches is a melee range spell with a 6 cast time...there are exactly 2 demi-liches...there are exactly 2 Protection from Magic scrolls...Imprisonment is a non-issue.
For other creatures is easy enough to simply kite them till PfMW runs out then zip in and bash them to death with an elemental weapon since the extra ticks grant additional chances for hit reactions (FOA is a guaranteed interrupt, assuming the target isn't killed outright). The Barb excels at this, though the kensai can as well if they have boots of speed, speed potions, items that can grant haste temporarily, etc.
For non-imprisonment battles...there's the cloak of the sewers or rings of air control.
The only real difference is that the Kensai needs to use consumables to cover their weaker areas, which is the trade off for the highest physical damage in the game (barring singing image cheese of course...nothing can hold a candle to that...but it's also borderline cheating).
Kensai will kill everything flat out..........they're much tougher in BG1, yes, due to the fact it takes forever to get boots of speed, relative to BG2, where you can grab the boots immediately after leaving the prelude if you desire. (though careful use of invisibility and speed potions can get the job done).
In a party situation, Barbs and Kensai are godly, because their "penalties" are a non-issue if there's someone else to tank or handle countering stuff, allowing them to focus purely on killing stuff.
Assassin's don't work because everything worth the effort of backstabbing is immune in late game, with few exceptions. Nothing is immune to having it's face smashed in with the FoA (or IMoD one-shotting for Demi-liches) for 400+ damage in under 3 rounds. The ravager barely survives into the 3rd round worth of damage, and only because of it's ridiculously high physical DR. PfMW is just a minor speed bump along the way.
2.) A kensai dies to Sarevok in BG1, any dragon you'll fight, the ravager in ToB, yaga shura. I can continue here. There are so many creatures out there that will deal more damage than you do. The encounter with the statues in Watcher's keep will utterly destroy your kensai, same with the elemental demon.
3.) In a party barbs and kensai are godly. THeir penalties are none if there's someone else to tank and handle stuff....
You do know the berserker can do the exact same damage as the kensai and barbs. AND he can tank the stuff at the same time? So instead of having two characters you got one single character that can do everything.
Barbarians and kensai are nice enough. But they are nowhere close to as good or useful as a berserker.
4.) They aren't safe to solo as there are so many things that deal much more damage than they do, with better armor class to boot. AND any mage fight will destroy you.
Try going through cloakwood solo with a kensai. You'll get poisoned every single time thanks to your incredible low AC.
i think you just making things up for the sake of this argument
15*8=120
17*8=136
bg1 berserker>paladin kits > paladin > other
bg2 no dual classing paladin kits>berserker
bg2 dual classing berserker>paladin kits
17 * 8 = 136
The barbarian has 1 more health at level 8 because of the berserker rage giving +15 hit points.
This will be my last post here as to not derail too much.
Any immunity is nice because it frees up a spell slot/item slot that would otherwise be reserved for that character. A cavalier almost trivializes fear, for instance, due to his immunity and the instant remove fears they receive for use on party members.
That said, inquisitors abilities are pretty awesome. Makes for a tough choice.
if it wasn't everybody would just agree and there would be no point in forums