Probably the home page or the 'news' subforum here. Likely it's going to be pretty big when it hits, but I'd suggest checking back on July 21st as that's when the you know what is hitting the fan for Atari.
Probably the home page or the 'news' subforum here. Likely it's going to be pretty big when it hits, but I'd suggest checking back on July 21st as that's when the you know what is hitting the fan for Atari.
Tell me more about what issues Atari is facing, I'm not aware of any... Thanks!
It seems likely that even if Atari is claiming unpaid royalties from Overhaul, it's being caused/made worse by the bankruptcy. Anyways, in interest of accurate information/less speculation let's not let that debate spill over into this thread please =P
Thanks for the update @elminster I coulda sworn it was the 21st.
So we could hear back any time between today and the 24th, or later. It's possible/probably that since Baldur's Gate is a much smaller IP than most of their others and worth much less that they will not be auctioning and instead just selling up front (this had been mentioned in another thread). So we'll see.
It may depend on how they are packaging IP. They could be bundling the rights to BG, IWD, PT, NWN, TOEE, Daggerdale, etc.. in a "D&D" package an insisting on a higher price.
Good point Astro, I hadn't considered that one. Aside from the higher price tag, that could be neat if Overhual were to get ahold of it. Like I said before, there's a large community and many of us willing to donate happily in favor of something like that. That would open them up to have much more control over the series and possibly other D&D EE's- which would be fantastic. The price could be a bit of an issue, but even some of the more popular series weren't going for much based on Atari's announcement letter with costs.
However I will mention that since the court requires them to set a price for anything going to auction like the rest of the stuff, it's more likely that they won't have a set price for either BG or the whole series- rather, they'll just see who's interested and what they might get for them. It's a buyers market for Atari properties right now so if anything I think Overhaul might have the upper hand.
For BG I'd be surprised if it was more than $75,000 honestly. And while that's not a small chunk of money, it's certainly within reach for a medium sized business, especially with crowd sourcing. For the entire D&D franchise (do they actually have rights for the entire franchise?) I'd think somewhere around 200k.
I was going to make a thread, but I wanted to avoid redundancy.
So I came this morning to buy a new copy for my brother so we could play together, and I found the store unplugged. I've been reading about the issues for about an hour.
Here's the thing. I am an attorney, and I wouldn't mind posting what I think the legal issues surrounding this are, with the caveat that I do not specialize in contract, bankruptcy, or copyright. I have taken classes on all three subjects, but I'm only a year out of law school.
The search function is terrible, so if someone knows of someone who has already done this, especially if they've done it better, say something, because it would be a a large-ish time commitment. I'm pretty busy nowadays, so shoot me a message if this is something people would be interested in. I can take an hour in the evening to bang something out.
I'm at work so I don't have time to find it, but there is a thread with lots of discussion on it. I'll try to post it to you tonight so you can see if you have anything extra to add.
For BG I'd be surprised if it was more than $75,000 honestly. And while that's not a small chunk of money, it's certainly within reach for a medium sized business, especially with crowd sourcing. For the entire D&D franchise (do they actually have rights for the entire franchise?) I'd think somewhere around 200k.
I don't honestly think that the price tag is really as much the issue so much as determining if the company buying it can turn a profit out of the deal. Since the vast majority of the BG1 sales have already gone out the door, the expectation will have to be that BG2 will sell enough units such that the profit margin (after development and overhead is considered) will be above that. Only then will additional iterations be considered.
Given that Beamdog already has a significant headstart on development of BG2 and any handoff would not have to involve getting people up to speed, I'd hope that puts them in the lead.
However, not being in the industry, these are merely random speculations from a novice.
Honestly, I would think the brand "Baldurs Gate" to be worth much more then 75.000. But then again, Bioware decied to make their own Dragon AGe, and Bethseda has picked up Fallout and use their own Elder Scroll... so maybe they cant sell it for much more.
I was going to make a thread, but I wanted to avoid redundancy.
So I came this morning to buy a new copy for my brother so we could play together, and I found the store unplugged. I've been reading about the issues for about an hour.
Here's the thing. I am an attorney, and I wouldn't mind posting what I think the legal issues surrounding this are, with the caveat that I do not specialize in contract, bankruptcy, or copyright. I have taken classes on all three subjects, but I'm only a year out of law school.
The search function is terrible, so if someone knows of someone who has already done this, especially if they've done it better, say something, because it would be a a large-ish time commitment. I'm pretty busy nowadays, so shoot me a message if this is something people would be interested in. I can take an hour in the evening to bang something out.
@bengoshi has done an extensive review of the situation, you can find his posts in his "comments on his profile (as you probably know)
The search function is terrible, so if someone knows of someone who has already done this, especially if they've done it better, say something, because it would be a a large-ish time commitment. I'm pretty busy nowadays, so shoot me a message if this is something people would be interested in. I can take an hour in the evening to bang something out.
Hey @Deucetipher, @bengoshi and I have dug up a lot of info in these threads: http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/19518/there-is-hope/p4 in which one of my posts has the most recent Atari bankruptcy court filings, and bengoshi has a great link to the BMC group which has specific dockets relating to the Atari bankruptcy filings and motion decisions.
EDIT: I realized that some context would help. What we've found is that Atari has not listed the BG / old AD&D game rights as line-item assets for sale. Rather, through simple deduction, it seems they will be considered de minimus assets, and their sale will be subject to different degree of court oversight depending on the sale price. Unfortunately, I don't think there's much more information to be had (i.e. public docs), and we're all waiting for an announcement about the result of the asset auction and summary of cash raised / paid to Atari's debtors.
Honestly, I would think the brand "Baldurs Gate" to be worth much more then 75.000. But then again, Bioware decied to make their own Dragon AGe, and Bethseda has picked up Fallout and use their own Elder Scroll... so maybe they cant sell it for much more.
If you take a look at the link further up the thread you'll see that even most of their big name titles aren't selling for much. Like mentioned above, since it wasn't even listed by the court as a large enough asset to have the prices pre-determined it seems unlikely that it would be particularly expensive.
To us consumers and enthusiasts, the BG name means quite a lot. However, anyone looking to pick up the license is first and foremost looking for how they can turn that investment into some form of profit. Given the age of the property and the limited nature of the market (don't flame me. We RPG enthusiasts are a hearty bunch, but we are not the majority of the gaming community by a long chalk), the likelihood of turning a profit narrows considerably.
I see one of three outcomes.
1) Beamdog ends up with the license as they have the most invested already and therefore can make the most profit with the least effort. - Win.
2) Some other entity buys it and then commissions Beamdog to finish the product. - Less of a win, but still in the plus column. We get BG2:EE at some point. but we have to deal with a new company and new rules to go along with it.
3) No one ends up with the property and it just dies a horrible death on some dusty shelf. - everyone loses.
I suppose there might be a four and five.
4) Someone other than Beamdog gets ahold of the property and either tries to finish it themselves or hires yet a third party to do so. I think this is unlikely in the extreme and even less likely to succeed if it did.
5) Someone grabs up the rights and sits on them in the hopes of developing something brand new out of the deal. Possible, but scary just to think about it.
1) Here's hoping for this 2) Seems like the most plausible other than 1 3) I hope that Atari is decent enough not to let this happen, but it's certainly possible 4) Here's hoping there's not anyone looking to do this. Could be disastrous, although it's within the realm of possibility that they could do something good with it. 5) World of Baldur's Gate: Tales of the MMO Coast
It's come to my attention that because of the odd way the rights of BG are owned right now they may not even be able to auction off BG. At the very least it's going to be several strings attached as even with going bankrupt they can't sell things they don't completely own. This should make it less appealing for outside investors, which is good in turn for us as we may be the only interested party.
On the flipside of that, though, is that within their contracts with WotC/Bioware they may have had a "first chance" buy back agreement that if Atari ever decided to sell the IP they would get the first rights to it. This could be very bad for Overhaul, as if Bioware could pick up BG for a really small cost they might well do it and I think none of us wants that. I'm not sure if clauses like that are standard in software/IP contracts but I know in other sale contracts especially land they're very common. Any insight from someone in the field would be fantastic. Looking at you guys, @adris@Deucetipher@bengoshi
Guys, i know we're all extremely devoted to BG but these discussions are just words without any effect. The auction will proceed soon. Maybe we should pray or something instead of building crazy theories about all this legal stuff; honestly we can't say much about all this.
i really hope though, that the devs will write something in the next few days, as soon as the Atari auction will be over, and whatever the result will be for Beamdog and BGEE's future.
Guys, i know we're all extremely devoted to BG but these discussions are just words without any effect. The auction will proceed soon. Maybe we should pray or something instead of building crazy theories about all this legal stuff; honestly we can't say much about all this.
i really hope though, that the devs will write something in the next few days, as soon as the Atari auction will be over, and whatever the result will be for Beamdog and BGEE's future.
Just because we can't have any effect on it doesn't mean we can't discuss it. If you're not willing/interested why not just not post about it/not read the thread rather than tell us not to?
On the flipside of that, though, is that within their contracts with WotC/Bioware they may have had a "first chance" buy back agreement that if Atari ever decided to sell the IP they would get the first rights to it. This could be very bad for Overhaul, as if Bioware could pick up BG for a really small cost they might well do it and I think none of us wants that.
If I remember correctly, part of the reason Dragon Age (and later Mass Effect) came into existence is because Bioware didn't want to deal with licensed properties anymore. I guess it would be possible that EA would want the license to sit on it for a bit, though.
I think the big question is whether we're talking about just the Baldur's Gate property if those rights are folded in with the rest of the D&D or Forgotten Realms video game license(s). If it's the latter, things might get more expensive.
Comments
And no problem, glad to help.
Who knows when lawyers are running the shots?
Thanks for the update @elminster I coulda sworn it was the 21st.
However I will mention that since the court requires them to set a price for anything going to auction like the rest of the stuff, it's more likely that they won't have a set price for either BG or the whole series- rather, they'll just see who's interested and what they might get for them. It's a buyers market for Atari properties right now so if anything I think Overhaul might have the upper hand.
So I came this morning to buy a new copy for my brother so we could play together, and I found the store unplugged. I've been reading about the issues for about an hour.
Here's the thing. I am an attorney, and I wouldn't mind posting what I think the legal issues surrounding this are, with the caveat that I do not specialize in contract, bankruptcy, or copyright. I have taken classes on all three subjects, but I'm only a year out of law school.
The search function is terrible, so if someone knows of someone who has already done this, especially if they've done it better, say something, because it would be a a large-ish time commitment. I'm pretty busy nowadays, so shoot me a message if this is something people would be interested in. I can take an hour in the evening to bang something out.
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/15068/forum-search-workaround
Given that Beamdog already has a significant headstart on development of BG2 and any handoff would not have to involve getting people up to speed, I'd hope that puts them in the lead.
However, not being in the industry, these are merely random speculations from a novice.
Also, http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/19502/pricetag-of-bg-ip has some more info at the bottom.
EDIT: I realized that some context would help. What we've found is that Atari has not listed the BG / old AD&D game rights as line-item assets for sale. Rather, through simple deduction, it seems they will be considered de minimus assets, and their sale will be subject to different degree of court oversight depending on the sale price. Unfortunately, I don't think there's much more information to be had (i.e. public docs), and we're all waiting for an announcement about the result of the asset auction and summary of cash raised / paid to Atari's debtors.
Thank you, much appreciated
To us consumers and enthusiasts, the BG name means quite a lot. However, anyone looking to pick up the license is first and foremost looking for how they can turn that investment into some form of profit. Given the age of the property and the limited nature of the market (don't flame me. We RPG enthusiasts are a hearty bunch, but we are not the majority of the gaming community by a long chalk), the likelihood of turning a profit narrows considerably.
I see one of three outcomes.
1) Beamdog ends up with the license as they have the most invested already and therefore can make the most profit with the least effort. - Win.
2) Some other entity buys it and then commissions Beamdog to finish the product. - Less of a win, but still in the plus column. We get BG2:EE at some point. but we have to deal with a new company and new rules to go along with it.
3) No one ends up with the property and it just dies a horrible death on some dusty shelf. - everyone loses.
I suppose there might be a four and five.
4) Someone other than Beamdog gets ahold of the property and either tries to finish it themselves or hires yet a third party to do so. I think this is unlikely in the extreme and even less likely to succeed if it did.
5) Someone grabs up the rights and sits on them in the hopes of developing something brand new out of the deal. Possible, but scary just to think about it.
1) Here's hoping for this
2) Seems like the most plausible other than 1
3) I hope that Atari is decent enough not to let this happen, but it's certainly possible
4) Here's hoping there's not anyone looking to do this. Could be disastrous, although it's within the realm of possibility that they could do something good with it.
5) World of Baldur's Gate: Tales of the MMO Coast
On the flipside of that, though, is that within their contracts with WotC/Bioware they may have had a "first chance" buy back agreement that if Atari ever decided to sell the IP they would get the first rights to it. This could be very bad for Overhaul, as if Bioware could pick up BG for a really small cost they might well do it and I think none of us wants that. I'm not sure if clauses like that are standard in software/IP contracts but I know in other sale contracts especially land they're very common. Any insight from someone in the field would be fantastic. Looking at you guys, @adris @Deucetipher @bengoshi
Maybe we should pray or something instead of building crazy theories about all this legal stuff; honestly we can't say much about all this.
i really hope though, that the devs will write something in the next few days, as soon as the Atari auction will be over, and whatever the result will be for Beamdog and BGEE's future.
"O, Great Hera..."
I think the big question is whether we're talking about just the Baldur's Gate property if those rights are folded in with the rest of the D&D or Forgotten Realms video game license(s). If it's the latter, things might get more expensive.